"Well, guess what? The dealer called back today after 4 days and wanted to offer a lower price and renegotiate after low balling my trade and only offering to knock off shipping when I was originally in the showroom, and after stating it was his final offer"
I hate the way this forum is setup. Everytime I want to reply to a post written like 10-15 posts ago, I have to quote what the guy said.
Anyway, now that the invoice prices are out, how much lower did the dealer offer the car at? I'm very curious b/c my dealer is not budging at all Knocking shipping off is not bad. That's $545, or something like that.)
Hey guys, what about the "holdback". Looks like the cars are flying off the lot as soon as they come in. Shouldn't we negotiate the dealer holdback off the price since the cars are not staying on the lot for 3 months!!
I've had the car a week... 1. Almost as quiet inside as my father's LS430. 2. Handling is awesome for a front driver -- and I do require FWD since I have to get to work when it snows! 3. The interior ergonomics are superb, as are the interior materials. 4. The sound system is the best factory system I've ever heard. Will I rush out and buy DVD-Audios? Probably not. 5. The engine and tranny are silky smooth. Keep in mind I'm moving up from a 3.8L supercharged GM product, so my point-of-reference may be skewed! 6. Nobody has a bluetooth carphone for CDMA cell networks, so I'm out of luck for now unless I change carriers. 7. Yeah, I paid MSRP, but I still based my decision on the perceived value, and I have no buyer's regret! 8. For all of the naysayers on FWD, go post somewhere else. I'm tired of your whining.
I have mention the JD power is based on the survey card sent by dealers which could be tricked by offering free stuff from dealership like free oil change or something. They survey reliability in the first 3 and 12 months by survey the chain autoshop and dealer service dept. In theory this shold cover all but problem came from how they decide the criteria on each category. They never release the formula and most customers don't trust the number. It does give dealer another source to promote their cars and trucks. As to the recent disappoint reliability index of BMW and MB, it's not because they are getting worse but the standard raised. Most of us will use CR's report and they keep raise the bar every other year. Compare to 10 years ago, the average number of problem per 100 cars is 150, last year is 100 per 100 cars. So if BMW is 140 problems per 100 cars, it will be rated average 10 years ago, but below average last year. While Japanese car has good record before and keep improved like majority of American products. The problem for those two premium brand is overly comlicate for more features. The more gadgets the higher chance go wrong. Cars today are no longer simple and plane before. Many power train device now are controlled by computer for ultimal performance. It tend to go wrong likely at this complexity. Computer aid design and simulation tool could reduce the real application problem and increase precise fitness in assembly. So overall the gain and lose all depends on how experience the designers are and how well the assembly execution is. This also reflecting the truth that the first year production always has lowest reliability record. The information collected from the first year will help designer to fix minor issue in the 2nd year and complicate one in the refresh 2-3 year later or the next gen. Meantime, all problems due to assembly will be addressed and improved in the later production. MB and BMW reliability issue actually has been resolved by dealer willing to provide loaner while the car in the shop. It's your prefernce and priority to decide which is best for you. It's you to drive the car by use your money. I do agree some members's opinion: get what you really want, not 2nd or 3rd choice just because small price different. Unless you always keep the car less than 3 years, the decision you made wil go with you a long way. Rather spend money on what you like than regret when you see others driving in front you.
"For all of the naysayers on FWD, go post somewhere else. I'm tired of your whining."
Right on!
And the funny thing is I'd bet most of the people bashing FWD probably don't have the skills to take full advantage of RWD -- they just like to talk like they do.
Yes, the new TL has reverse tilt side mirrors on both sides. It is controlled by the power mirror button - if the switch is set to control the left hand side mirror, then it will tilt down when in reverse. If the switch is set to control the right hand side mirror, then the right hand mirror will tilt down when in reverse. If the power mirror switch is set to the middle, neither mirror will tilt down when in reverse. Hope this helps.
During the test drive I back it out and it tilted both mirrors. Passenger is good bu tiltling the driver's mirror and you can't see behind you. However, I was told the features are highly customizable by the customer. You can unlock all doors and open sunroof. you can tile only the passnger mirror. you can set the head lights on delay, etc.
Hopefully all these features are in flash mmemory in case the battery ever needs to be replaced :0
Agian I ask what kind of miles per gallon are the new TL drivers getting?
Yes, the new TL has reverse tilt side mirrors on both sides. It is controlled by the power mirror button - if the switch is set to control the left hand side mirror, then it will tilt down when in reverse. If the switch is set to control the right hand side mirror, then the right hand mirror will tilt down when in reverse. If the power mirror switch is set to the middle, neither mirror will tilt down when in reverse. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info. I guess they changed it a bit from the current system where the power mirror switch has to be in the middle position for the mirror to tilt.
Great car, great test drive last week! Does anyone see a problem with the tires? Fairly aggresive treads! Tread wear is low, maybe 25000 miles? Why did Acura have to put such low profile tires on this car? I do not want to be spending $250 per tire every two years!
Low profile tires. I have a Lexus IS300 with low profile tires and the ride quality is excellent! .
Tires are = 215/45 -17
Ride in a BMW sometime with low profile tires the tire profile has nothing to do with the ride. The low profile prevents flexing of the sidewall and thus improves cornering and handling.
I'll be visiting the dealership to check out the 04 TL. Since lot inventories are limited right now, I would like some opinions about the sharpest exterior/interior color combinations. Thanks to all!
is described as "harsh" by Consumer Reports and other sources. I took the IS300 for a fairly extensive test drive myself, and I found the ride to be stiff and jumpy. It is one of the few cars I've found that rides less comfortably than the TSX. SO, you might think the ride quality is "excellent" but the typical upscale driver will probably not agree.
Here is what CR had to say about the IS300's ride: "The IS300 allows pavement flaws to punch through as pronounced kicks. The highway ride is a bit nervous and jittery."
Low profile tires most certainly do have a negative impact on ride. With less height to the sidewall, more road impact is transmitted to the car. That is particularly the case on performance cars that have short, stiff sidewalls. In fact, in CR this month they have a comparo on tires, and they conclude that low-profile performance tires ride poorly.
And, yeah, the ride on a stock 3-series is very composed. But, if you opt for the performance version of the BMW, with the sportier tires, the ride quality is almost as bad as the IS300.
Check out lastest issue of Consumer Reports, which tests performance tires. The base Bridgestone Turanza tires rate very high as all-season performance tires. The Potenza's that come with the 6-speed MT are overall highly rated, except for the snow.
However, back to my earlier post, I don't know what to expect from the new TL in the snow and ice. The tires certainly will play a role in that, but some vehicles just handle snow and ice better than others regardless of tires. The ground clearance on the new TL seems lower than either previous generation trim line. I was wondering how either the previous base or Type-S handled snow/ice overall. Comments?
Get this, the other vehicle I'm looking seriously at is a Toyota Highlander with AWD...how's that for a study in contrasts.
I wouldn't count on it. The 2003 TL didn't have it. I just learned it the hard way; dealer disconnected the battery and all the memory for seats and mirrors is gone.
iwse - I currently drive a 2000 TL with all seasons (Michelin MXV4s) and I never had problems driving in winter/snow. I'll be getting the 2004 TL with Dynamic Package (Canadian 6MT package that only comes with the high performance summer tires) even though it also means buying a set of winter performance radials. I like the car that much!
From one of my previous postings -- One of the best rated winter performance radial tires is the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3. The Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW-2 and the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 are also excellent choices, according to Consumer Reports but the Dunlops are better priced.
In Toronto, has Honda intro the TL to the public yet? I'm going to the Vancouver intro tomorrow night. They said we wouldn't be allowed to drive any of the demos yet though
I think I'm going to go for the auto w/Nav, Blue with camel interior unless something unforeseen happens at the intro or if they really low-ball me on the trade-in value of my CL-S.
The 6MT would be the hot setup but lack of Nav is a downer. And I'm kinda lazy about shifting my own gears now, and I know I don't want to do the tire changeover chore twice a year.
Abyss Blue/Quartz leather Abyss Blue/Parchment White Diamond/Parchment Nighthawk Black/Quartz Satin Silver/Quartz Redrock/Quartz For those of you wanting more features in a TL, Acura is redesigning its RL for 2005 with even more HP and possibly an IMA motor. Go check out the Acura RL discussion in the Future Vehicles section. And, I didn't know that the Accord 3.0L V6 was named a Ward's 10 best engine. I always thought that the Nissan 3.5 was the only one that made it on there that was a Japanese car. Guess Honda doesn't need to advertise its engine- Accords sell well enough.
Yea, I wouldn't preferred Abyss Blue w/Quartz but too bad that combo is not avail in Canada. Is Parchment = Camel? Bottom line is I just want something other than a black interior. Too hot, too dark, too dreary
Yes, I'm going to the Toronto intro tomorrow night as well. Test drives will be available starting the next day. The Blue with camel interior was actually my first choice but it's not available on 6MT model for Canada. I'll have to settle for the Silver with black interior (why is black the only interior offered on the CDN 6MT model?). Anyway, I'm looking very forward to it.
My only concern with switching from summer to winter tires and visa versa, is keeping track of the tire rotations, in order to equalize the wear.
Dealers won't negotiate on holdback unless there is NO demand for the vehicle, like an 03 TL. Then they'll sell the car at their cost but still make a buck on the deal.
We didn't get too far beyond "well, how much do you want us to knock off the sticker?" I had already concluded after a disapointing test drive and experiencing the dealers attitude that I wasn't interested in the product.
Three grand profit out to be plenty. For someone else to pay, not me, that is.
As varmint said earlier, you shouldn't worry about how much profit the dealer makes on the TL. Just consider if the selling price is fair compared to the selling prices of competing brand. Afterall, even if you can negotiate with the dealer and influence his profit, can you control how much Honda makes? There are many other products with huge markups. If you knew the profit margins for clothing, you'd probably be walking around naked!
Thanks for your impressions of the car. What about the turning circle? Kelly Blue Book suggests it has a fairly wide turning circle, although some of their data seem incorrect.
Any complaints about the back seat? Someone here a while back claimed it was very uncomfortable.
Colors are subjective, but the camel interior in the new TL is a kind of yellow orange--hideous in my book. Parchment is more your ordinary (and pleasant) beige.
Anyone have the breakdown of the VIN numbers for the new TL. I'm searching dealer inventory and most of the listings do not include color or transmission type. Thanks
Anyone have the breakdown of the VIN numbers for the new TL. I'm searching dealer inventory and most of the listings do not include color or transmission type. Thanks
Sorry it took me so long to reply.... the lease was no money down, $473 per month for 48 months at 15,000 miles per year. I did not get the money factor, basically, I was very pleased with this lease price so I closed the deal. I purchased the deep Green pearl/parchment interior and the navigation system. The lease is thru AHFC.
Payment sounds good for no money down, but since you are leasing it for a whopping 4 years, you will be out of warranty the last year at 15K miles per year pace. 4 years is a long lease. Many people say they lease so they can rotate in and out of new cars on a quick basis. The car isn't going to feel very new after the 3rd year of driving the same car. Also, the longer you have the lease, the more likely you will have massive mileage overage charges at lease return time. Even if you drive only a few thousand miles over the allocated miles per year, it will add up to a lot of money in excess mileage charges over 4 years of driving.
I don't mind the 48 month term. I usually drive approx. 12,000 miles per year so my TL will be under warrenty for the entire lease. If you are concerned about going over the milage, then leasing isn't for you. The Acura dealer also offered a 39 month lease option for approx. $535 per month. I figure, I'll lease for 48 months & that should be about the time the next new TL will be coming out. Also, while this may not be the correct forum but you mentioned leasing terms, I was able to terminate the 39 month lease on my wife's Lexus GS430 13 months early and trade into a BMW X5 (purchased not leased). The BMW dealer took the Lexus as a trade and I calculated that the lease buyout only cost us approx $1,500 and saved us money on the X5 sales tax. So you are never really commited to an entire lease term.
Only two of those are actual reviews, but thanks for posting the links.
This one was kind of interesting. The TL's overall scores are fairly impressive (if you're the type who likes numbers). Only the ES330 scored higher based on their criteria. Which, in my mind, tells us something about what they feel is important in a near lux car.
Suggest you look in the owners manuals that (hopefully) came with the car. One of the manuals will likely list summaries of lemon laws in various states. There is another website called carlemon.com that appears to have nice summaries (I dont know how accurate they are), and I bet there's probably some stuff on this website if you dig around a bit.
Since it is a certified pre-owned car, Acura arguably has some skin on the issue too -- it wont be free, but maybe they would work out an accomodation to get you a different car. If all these transmissions are being replaced at the same dealer, you begin to wonder whether they are installing it right, and maybe Acura would want to know about that as well.
Searching for "lemon law" using the search tab at the top of this page will get you some Edmunds articles to read, and searching for the same phrase in the Keyword box on the left side of this page will get you some Town Hall discussions to read through.
I'm surprised there is no active lemon law discussion at the moment, but there is probably some good information and possibly links in some of them. You can always request that one be reopened, or start another one on our Smart Shopper board.
You were lucky to get out of the lease early (or really rolled it into the next lease). I always see nightmare stories where someone commits to a long lease, then has a job change or something that greatly increases their commute or reduces their income. Others just get tired of the car and want out. The latest was someone who signed up for a long lease on a 2 seat roadster, then was expecting a child less than a year into the lease. It will likely be at least 5 years before the next version of the TL comes out. Honda has switched to 5 or more years between redesigns and even the old TL come out as a 1999 model.
The TL's low profile tires bug me too. I thought the ride was a little hard and I am no Buick driver. I would get the Accord V6EX but it has no stability control and is sorta ugly.
Sorry for the gaps, but I've deleted a number of off-topic posts. Thanks.
This discussion will close tomorrow, and we'll move over to the regular Acura TL discussion. There are a number of Acura TL vs. <insert competition here> discussions in Town Hall, so you might want to seek them out as I am sure Pat (Sedans Host) will not want the melding of this discussion with the existing Sedans discussion to end in chaos!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
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I hate the way this forum is setup. Everytime I want to reply to a post written like 10-15 posts ago, I have to quote what the guy said.
Anyway, now that the invoice prices are out, how much lower did the dealer offer the car at? I'm very curious b/c my dealer is not budging at all
Hey guys, what about the "holdback". Looks like the cars are flying off the lot as soon as they come in. Shouldn't we negotiate the dealer holdback off the price since the cars are not staying on the lot for 3 months!!
Come on, what do people think??
1. Almost as quiet inside as my father's LS430.
2. Handling is awesome for a front driver -- and I do require FWD since I have to get to work when it snows!
3. The interior ergonomics are superb, as are the interior materials.
4. The sound system is the best factory system I've ever heard. Will I rush out and buy DVD-Audios? Probably not.
5. The engine and tranny are silky smooth. Keep in mind I'm moving up from a 3.8L supercharged GM product, so my point-of-reference may be skewed!
6. Nobody has a bluetooth carphone for CDMA cell networks, so I'm out of luck for now unless I change carriers.
7. Yeah, I paid MSRP, but I still based my decision on the perceived value, and I have no buyer's regret!
8. For all of the naysayers on FWD, go post somewhere else. I'm tired of your whining.
Right on!
And the funny thing is I'd bet most of the people bashing FWD probably don't have the skills to take full advantage of RWD -- they just like to talk like they do.
These questions remain to be answered?
Hopefully all these features are in flash mmemory in case the battery ever needs to be replaced :0
Agian I ask what kind of miles per gallon are the new TL drivers getting?
Tires are = 215/45 -17
Ride in a BMW sometime with low profile tires the tire profile has nothing to do with the ride. The low profile prevents flexing of the sidewall and thus improves cornering and handling.
Here is what CR had to say about the IS300's ride: "The IS300 allows pavement flaws to punch through as pronounced kicks. The highway ride is a bit nervous and jittery."
Low profile tires most certainly do have a negative impact on ride. With less height to the sidewall, more road impact is transmitted to the car. That is particularly the case on performance cars that have short, stiff sidewalls. In fact, in CR this month they have a comparo on tires, and they conclude that low-profile performance tires ride poorly.
And, yeah, the ride on a stock 3-series is very composed. But, if you opt for the performance version of the BMW, with the sportier tires, the ride quality is almost as bad as the IS300.
However, back to my earlier post, I don't know what to expect from the new TL in the snow and ice. The tires certainly will play a role in that, but some vehicles just handle snow and ice better than others regardless of tires. The ground clearance on the new TL seems lower than either previous generation trim line. I was wondering how either the previous base or Type-S handled snow/ice overall. Comments?
Get this, the other vehicle I'm looking seriously at is a Toyota Highlander with AWD...how's that for a study in contrasts.
iwse - I currently drive a 2000 TL with all seasons (Michelin MXV4s) and I never had problems driving in winter/snow. I'll be getting the 2004 TL with Dynamic Package (Canadian 6MT package that only comes with the high performance summer tires) even though it also means buying a set of winter performance radials. I like the car that much!
From one of my previous postings -- One of the best rated winter performance radial tires is the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3. The Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW-2 and the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 are also excellent choices, according to Consumer Reports but the Dunlops are better priced.
I think I'm going to go for the auto w/Nav, Blue with camel interior unless something unforeseen happens at the intro or if they really low-ball me on the trade-in value of my CL-S.
The 6MT would be the hot setup but lack of Nav is a downer. And I'm kinda lazy about shifting my own gears now, and I know I don't want to do the tire changeover chore twice a year.
Abyss Blue/Parchment
White Diamond/Parchment
Nighthawk Black/Quartz
Satin Silver/Quartz
Redrock/Quartz
For those of you wanting more features in a TL, Acura is redesigning its RL for 2005 with even more HP and possibly an IMA motor. Go check out the Acura RL discussion in the Future Vehicles section.
And, I didn't know that the Accord 3.0L V6 was named a Ward's 10 best engine. I always thought that the Nissan 3.5 was the only one that made it on there that was a Japanese car. Guess Honda doesn't need to advertise its engine- Accords sell well enough.
My only concern with switching from summer to winter tires and visa versa, is keeping track of the tire rotations, in order to equalize the wear.
We didn't get too far beyond "well, how much do you want us to knock off the sticker?" I had already concluded after a disapointing test drive and experiencing the dealers attitude that I wasn't interested in the product.
Three grand profit out to be plenty. For someone else to pay, not me, that is.
Any complaints about the back seat? Someone here a while back claimed it was very uncomfortable.
Parchment, on the other hand, is a much paler beige, almost bone white in color: http://www.acura.com/assets/acura/interiorpic/tl/2004/interiorpic- _tl_2004_parchmentleather_pa.jpg
[Q]For those people hoping for a great deal on the TL...here are the invoice prices. This was posted on the web today....thanks Myrddin157
$29,755 + $545 Destination = $30,300 Non-Navi
Navi adds another $1,821 = $32,121 With Navi[/Q]
2004 TL – 19.8 ft (6.05 m)
2003 TL – 18.4 ft (5.60 m)
2003 TLS – 21.0 ft (6.40 m)
4 years is a long lease. Many people say they lease so they can rotate in and out of new cars on a quick basis. The car isn't going to feel very new after the 3rd year of driving the same car.
Also, the longer you have the lease, the more likely you will have massive mileage overage charges at lease return time. Even if you drive only a few thousand miles over the allocated miles per year, it will add up to a lot of money in excess mileage charges over 4 years of driving.
http://www.canadianautoreview.com/2004_acura_tl.htm
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 37492
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_- id=830
Also, the Vin won't tell you color. Not sure about model (ie, nav or non-nav), but that you can tell from the MSRP.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This one was kind of interesting. The TL's overall scores are fairly impressive (if you're the type who likes numbers). Only the ES330 scored higher based on their criteria. Which, in my mind, tells us something about what they feel is important in a near lux car.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 37492
Since it is a certified pre-owned car, Acura arguably has some skin on the issue too -- it wont be free, but maybe they would work out an accomodation to get you a different car. If all these transmissions are being replaced at the same dealer, you begin to wonder whether they are installing it right, and maybe Acura would want to know about that as well.
Hope this helps a little, and good luck.
I'm surprised there is no active lemon law discussion at the moment, but there is probably some good information and possibly links in some of them. You can always request that one be reopened, or start another one on our Smart Shopper board.
Good luck - keep us posted.
It will likely be at least 5 years before the next version of the TL comes out. Honda has switched to 5 or more years between redesigns and even the old TL come out as a 1999 model.
This discussion will close tomorrow, and we'll move over to the regular Acura TL discussion. There are a number of Acura TL vs. <insert competition here> discussions in Town Hall, so you might want to seek them out as I am sure Pat (Sedans Host) will not want the melding of this discussion with the existing Sedans discussion to end in chaos!
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