What real sports car is out there is front wheel drive? Even Honda knows this S2000 NSX. Look a the legendary sports sedans out there. Benz BMW Audi All rear wheel drive. 50/50 balance pure and simple. The TL is almost there, all the weight is up front, and not nearly enough torque.
After looking at the 04 TL in the showroom, I thought it may be something special. But driving it was pure Marysville Accord (which, by the way, is where the TL is built-my guess is in the same plant). I had an 03 Accord for about a month and now drive a TSX. If I had my eyes closed, I wouldn't have known the difference from the Accord when driving the TL. Other that gadgets that I wouldn't use, I was disappointed in both the drive and the car. The designers must also have spent some time sitting in a G35, as it's about as bad with the cheap plastic chrome. The TL is nothing but a Acura badged Accord plus a few thousand more in cost. The dealers attitude didn't help. Maybe others will pay full sticker and lowball my trade(well, the dealer agreed to knock off shipping on the TL), but not me. I'll go elsewhere, thank you.
Thanks for the response Kfh. I bought the TL here in Franklin. I made them take out the trunk tray, all season mats and drop the price back to original. The wheel lock were on, splash guards and "so-called sealant". Paid cost for the wheel locks and a couple other small items. Probably the worst deal I ever made paying full list for a car, but it's a beauty. The car's for my wife and she really loves it. I figured what the heck, it made my sweetie of 23 years happy (not to mention yours truly), so what the hay, you can't take it with you. Green metalic with parcment interior (no Nav).
Every time I test drive an Acura, I was turned away by something like cheap material, Accord's feeling, no rear-driven model (except NSX which I never test drive. Well, per dealers, no hand touch either).
Here is the deal: to be a true luxry sports sedan (coupe), it must meet minimum requirements:
1). Rear driven 2). 50-50 weight balance 3). driver attracting features (low profile tire, large wheel, big brake, LSD and etc).
To be a hot competitor, it also has to do the followings:
1). competitive price (other than BM and MB brands) 2). high quality material inside and outside 3). Nice to have features (options)
Honda has a long history of being high on quality of driving chains but low on everything else. In doing so it's become the most profitable mass car/truck manufacturer in the world (But now is losing ground in luxury segment and being squezzed at low end). When quality was still a slogan at most of other manus, it's ok for Honad(Acura included) to sell cheap on their vehicles. But with everybody catching up, it's no more, especially at luxury brand.
To prove a point, have you noticed how Acura dress up MDX's waste pipes? It was screwed with a chromed cover on Pilot's (or they are all the same iron with Acura covered with a fake silver).
Acura needs to look no further than Infiniti for a clue. I am always puzzled to think why Honda wants to be a value leader (instead of a premium leader) in every segment it competes given its reputation of gold standard of quality and reliability? I can only self explain that Handa is so entrenched (so become trapped) in their 70-80's thinking that they forgot they are living in 21st century.
Give TL (or XL) a BMW 3-5 series type of design with more HP, it can charge any price that is only second to BMW's.
Look no further than Infiniti for a clue?! A clue to what? Acura trounces Infiniti on all 3 of your criteria for "hot competitor". If you say you get turned away by Acura's "cheap material", you must be throwing up when you step into a G35 or Altima.
That article was written by a guy that evaluates microwaves and vacumm cleaners. What does he know about driving a sports car? Granted, all Japanese cars are king when is comes to cheap plastic pieces. G35 is no exception. I got the black interior that hides a lot of it and it's all good. Not a chance in the Acura. Freespec's post said
To be a hot competitor, it ALSO has to do the following:
1). competitive price (other than BM and MB brands) 2). high quality material inside and outside 3). Nice to have features (options)
Acura has 2/3 BUT The Acura is wrong wheel drive, 70/30 balance, and some driver features
read the post correctly bodble2
The TL is a gussied up accord for someone that has been in accord for 20 years. And there's nothing wrong with that. But don't fool yourself thinking that this is a true sports sedan.
I just signed the lease on my 2004 Acura TL with navigation. I placed a deposit on the car on 10-1 and signed the lease yesterday when the dealer had the lease calculations. The cars may be going for MSRP but I feel I got a very good deal, no cap cost & $473 per month for 48 months w/15,000 miles. Since I all ready had a lease thru AHFC I didn't have to pay any leasing fees. Best of all, my 2000 Acura TL w/nav lease was up in February but the dealer took it in trade & bought out the lease. It was the smoothest car purchase I have ever experienced. Even better, I've read some commects about the TL being like an Accord. The Accord is a great car so I think that is a compliment. The TL has a sound structure and is fully loaded with all most every imaginable option. Plus, it is very safe and reliable. Also, someone said the add more power to compete with a 5 series.... the TL at 270 hp already has more power than a 5 series. I looked at the 5 series, both 2003 & 2004 and thought they were good cars but not worth the extra $$$ over the TL. I see the front wheel drive as a huge plus because I live in the Northeast. My wife's Lexus 430 is a nightmare in the snow or rain, with it's rear wheel drive. I think the TL is a great car, at a good price plus I'll be one of the first people around to be driving one.
Please remember that this is not a "versus" discussion - we're here to exchange info on the 04 TL, not to get into intricate comparisons. There's a comparisons sub-board on the Sedans board if you want to do that.
Next week, this discussion will be closed as Edmunds is moving this to their "new" rather than "future" category, and we'll continue in the active Acura TL discussion. Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
"That article was written by a guy that evaluates microwaves and vacumm cleaners. What does he know about driving a sports car?"
This is a common fallacy that's promoted by people who want to discredit CR's auto tests. CR doesn't have a single pool of staffers who test anything that comes up. Their staff for testing autos is dedicated to that purpose and hired with the necessary qualifications to perform those tests. Those folks have nothing to do with microwaves and vacuum cleaners.
I'd agree that, given CR's lack of "enthusiast" leanings, they may not be the first and best source for tests of sporty cars. But the tests are certainly valid. After all, you have to look at all auto tests with some grain of salt... some of the gushing fanboy reviews that you see in enthusiast magazines are also pretty suspect.
"Acura has 2/3 BUT The Acura is wrong wheel drive, 70/30 balance"
Try 61/39 for the automatic, 60/40 for the manual. 70/30 isn't even close. If you want your points to be considered credible, you may want to work on the accuracy of your claims.
Acura will never be like BMW or Benz. They don't have that "prestige" factor. With that said everybody likes the 04 TL. I like the 02-03 styling. It was sporty looking. I like the TSX better than the 04 TL. Maybe when Acura refreshes the TL maybe It will have a cleaner look to it. I think the TL will be a better car than the car it proceeds though in terms of interior and driving feel. I drive a 02 CL I for one would not take it over a Benz or BMW because the value is so good. With the 04 the TL its kind of a value 5 Series now. At least the TL's exterior styling is digestable though unlike new BMW styling which I don't like because it looks very gimmicky to me and won't stand the test time. I haven't seen a new TL yet. Maybe the new TL will grow one me. For the buyers and current owners of the 04 TL I wish you good luck with your cars.
Finally Acura sales have been doing good. Just because the 96-98 TL was priced in the same price range as the 04 model isn't a bad thing. The 96-98 TL was a beautiful car inside and out. A little bland on the back end but the headlights made up for it. Had I had 33K in 1997 to burn on a car the TL would have been a perfect choice. The 02-03 TL styling was perfect in my book. A couple creases missing on the back end but still looks very classic to me.
I thought about it. But it revs up and down even when the AC is off. I turned off the climate control and when I put my car into P after extended driving, the engine would rev up to about 2000 rev/m and then down to about 1000. When I switch the ignition on and then turn it back on, everything seems to be normal.
Right. If traction control does not engage when nudging the car onto the road, it must be lacking torque.
"The designers must also have spent some time sitting in a G35, as it's about as bad with the cheap plastic chrome." - jonesok1
There are some chrome bits in the TL, but they've very minor details. I've got a sneaking suspicion that this remark actually references the aluminum trim (which is real). Care to clarify?
I was only commenting on the 3 criteria stated -- competitive price, quality material, and features. Drivetrain is not one of those and I was not commenting on that. I know a hardcore sports car/sedan should have RWD, blah, blah, blah. Read before you shoot you mouth off.
And why do you keep assuming that TL owners think the TL is a "true sports sedan". varmint earlier had posted that the TL is a combination of luxury and sport, and I think that's how most TL buyers look at it.
Take talon95's advice. Do your homework, or else you'll be nothing but a troll.
The staff at CR are all auto enthusiasts, most of whom have some sort of engineering background. I chat with them regularly at the website, and find them to extremely informed.
I'm not sure what a "true sports sedan" really is, because there are some "family sedans" (like the Mazda6, Altima 3.5, and V6 versions of the Accord) that offer performance on par with so called "sports sedans." But, the Acura FWD vehicles compete well with most "sports sedans."
Rear wheel drive definitely offers signficant handling advantages, but you can get excellent handling in a FWD'er as well. I don't think the Acura is going to give you the kind of balance and "sports sedan" experience of a BMW, but the Acura TL has a different mission. It is upscale vehicle with sporty performance and lots of features. Sort of a halfway point between the Lexus ES300 and the sportier sedans (e.g., BMW 3 and 5 series).
I agree that Acura doesn't offer the same prestige as MB, BMW, and Lexus, but who cares? I'm interested in performance, comfort, and looks, not prestige.
talon95 - that was a lucid and balanced take on CR. I always look at CR with a grain of salt, because they tend to overemphasize the practical aspects of a vehicle and they care little about style and fun. If we all listened to CR, we'd all be in Camrys and Accords. But, I also find their tests to be more balanced and even handed than enthusiast mags (which seem to gush about every non-American make - particularly vehicles from Honda, Toyota, and BMW).
Incidently, I find the road tests here at Edmunds to be a nice middle ground.
If the '04 TL interior is "cheap", than I have to see what other manufacturers interiors are like. I just got back from test driving the '04, while waiting for my '03 TL-S to be serviced. The quality of the interior is fabulous! Every piece I touched screamed quality, the leather seats, the leather on the arm rest, the dash material, all of the switches. There is just something special about the texture. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap. It even smelled of quality. This car is only $33K! Nothing in that price range comes close. If you don't like the style, than that's one thing, but don't bash the quality.
I've driven the new Accord, and the new TL is way more car than the Accord. The Accord is a great car for what it is, but it is in a different league.
You have to listen to the demo DVD-A disk to really appreciate the sound system. Even the best sounding 2-channel system is lacking after listening to multi-channel music. There is more to music than highs and deep base. DVD-A adds another dimension to the sound.
Clue to what? Clue to coming out with a rear-wheel drive, 50-50 balanced car from Acura! G35 doesn't score all points I mentioned but at least it gives its best in driving dynamic s.
Acura must figure that rear drive and weight balance will at least cost 2-3K and if they can sell TL in the same price range, it scores a profit. Same old thinking and leave out car enthusiasts. It does that at a cost of losing out potential customers! Maybe I was wrong to look up Acura to satisfy my driving needs.
Freespec - If your goal is all-out performance, then you should not be looking at Acura sedans. In fact, you shouldn't be looking at anything with four doors, but that's another story.
Acura takes FWD as far as it will go without killing the luxury and practical aspects of the vehicle. That's why many Honda/Acura cars like the CL-S, TSX, and Integra have been described by various enthusiast mags as, "the best FWD ever". Which is as much performance as the average driver will ever need on public roads.
If you want a performance oriented car, you will have to sacrifice something. With the G35, that sacrifice is interior quality. With the IS300, it's interior space. If you wont accept any compromises, then you had better be ready to fork over the dough and saddle up to a 5 Series.
And you also sacrifice some features, reliabilty (BMW hasn't been that great lately- just look at CR ratings for evidence of that) and also a lot of $$$$$$. I must say that I congratulate Honda/Acura for taking FWD as far as it'll go performance wise. At least they haven't tried to emulate Lexus or BMW. It's fair to say that Acura hs found it's niche- FWD performance/touring cars. Infiniti has no niche yet except maybe Affordable Performance. And Lexus: They're all messed up. One end you're selling sport-sedans (IS300) and on the other end you're trying to sell comfy cruisers. (ES330) They need a niche.
fdefulvio: I have a G35 and am thinking about adding the new Acura TL '04 model for the wife. I have to completely agree with you on the quality of material being used within the car. I went by the dealer and it is absolutely beautiful. It feels like a very high dollar car in and out.
People forget it was the Acura Legend from the Japanese auto makers in the late 80's, which got the recognition as their first luxury vehicle. Lexus and Infiniti followed once they seen the success of this new division from Honda.
I personally believe that Acura is just as "prestige" as Lexus and Infiniti. The fact is you can't go wrong with any of those 3 brands (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus) in terms of a great quality car that are also fun to drive, not to mention the huge savings over the BMW's (which any more get those average & below average quality/reliability marks from C/R).
Well....if I can afford those brands, I probably wouldn't consider Acura either. Plus, I think your mom-in-law is probably too old to drive an Acura...even the RL.
It's long been accepted the Lexus leads the field in prestige effect when it comes to Japanese luxury cars, followed by Infinity and then Acura. Acura is catching up but what is really needed in their lineup is a more luxurious "full size" flagship model that's propelled by a powerful 300+ hp V8 engine. The current RL just cannot compete with the likes of LS430 & Q45.
I hear Acura is going this route for the RL in the very near future. Anybody have any info on this? Should Acura go this route?
No doubt Lexus ranks number one, but I've never observed a big difference in perception between Infiniti and Acura.
Kahunah - There are dozens of rumors about the RL (a whole other thread). Most likely is a strong V6 or maybe a V6 and hybrid electric. It'll be FWD or AWD if the electric hybrid route is taken.
can a moonroof visor be installed yourself or do you have to get a dealer to do it? cause my dealer wanted to charge me like $160 for the visor and the installation but i could get one on ebay for like $60. the only thing is....is it hard to install? and does it require any drilling or any other damage to my car?
go to www.hondacuraworld.com. They sell Acura accessories. they have a link where you can go to print or read instructions on how to install the various accesories. this should help you with the moonroof visor.
Honda will probably never do one. Remember, they're the company favored by the Sierra Club for not having gas-guzzling SUVS. (MDX and Pilot) I always thought of Lexus being most recognized, Infiniti being more sport, and Acura being a blend of the 2.
I see a lot of Chinese people drive around in a Mercedes Benz. (My Chinese neighbor drives an MDX) Sometimes they buy cars for prestige, other times for value, and other times for DQR. (Durability, Quality, Reliability)
Infinite tried to play in the same leaque as Lexus, but couldn't make it. The Q sell in such small numbers that it's almost irrelevant (I couldn't even picture in my mind what a Q looks like). The M45 sedan? Why bother? Did Infinite build it for laughs? Do we need a Japanese Crown Vic? The rest of Infiniti's lineup is no more prestious as Acura's. Perhaps more exciting styling but inferior quality (of material). The FX? Time will tell if it becomes a groundbreaker or the lead character in a Japanese cartoon. And they don't even have a showcase model to match the NSX, nor a sporty entry model to compete with the RSX.
And I drive a Civic. I won't drive it into the ground, however. My neighbor did drive her Integra into the ground until she bought an MDX. Infiniti could use a entry sporty model like the RSX. Brings in younger buyers and starts them off on the ladder. Sell em' an RSX at loss, then make money on them as they trade that RSX for a TSX, the TSX for a TL, the TL for an RL, and finally add an MDX/Pilot/Odyssey as a second car. And then you've made a lotta money off one person.
I like the new E-Class a little bit and the SL 500 in Black looks pretty nice. Mercedes are not "me" though. It just doesn't fit me. Besides I could never afford an SL anyway.
I like the 3-Series and the Mercedes E Class/CLK. That's pretty much it. The new 5-Series is too radical for me. (I'm coming from a Civic, ya know) All the Acuras appeal to me and maybe the bargain basement Infiniti I35. About the only Lexus I like would have to be the GS300.
I just picked up my new white TL nav yesterday--WOW. I looked at and drove the 03 BMW 525, GS300, Camry, Accord. This one just seemed to catch my attention. What a great combination of performance, technology, performance and style. If you cant tell, I love my new car. Niello Acura in Sacramento sold it to me for $239 over sticker,(protection package). They were great and did just what they said they would do. The nav is something I never thought I wanted, but I already see how helpful and fun it's going to be. GREAT CAR.
I liked the 3 Series before they refreshed it. What year did they refresh the current 3 Series? 2001 or 2002? I agree the new 5 Series is too radical looking to me too. The exterior styling is not going to age well in my opinion. The only Lexus's that appeal to me is the IS 300 and the RX. The interior in the is cheap in the 01-02 IS 300 models. I had heard Toyota had enrichened the interior for the 03 models(not sure if that rumor is true or not.) The RX is nice from a value prespective for a family SUV.
Prestige is for snobs with more money than brains. Why would anybody spend twice as much a MB or BMW that has poor resale and even worse reliability unless they are trying to be excepted by their snobbish friends? I am not saying that performance of these cars are not better than the TL, but it is not twice as good, and the TL will have much better reliability and the depreciation rate. Any Acura or Lexus is a much smarter buy for a comparable car than any European car out there.
I just thought of something... The 2004 TL is only 11.12% away from achieving 300 hp. Just for fun, I'd like to know from some of you performance wrencheads out there, how this could be achieved relatively easily and cheaply. I'm thinking along the lines of add-on technology that enhances intake air-flow (i.e. high-flow air filters, "Tornado" like devices, etc.). Any suggestions?
Mercedes did disasterous in the latest in the latest J.D. Powers Survey by finishing 26th. Mercedes went from battling Honda for the top spot in the JD Powers Surveys in the early 90's to currently placing in the back of the pack of the J.D. Powers Survey's.
I do think Acura does off the best value for you dollar. Lexus uses better interior materials than Acura does in their cars but Lexus's are not my taste.
BMW: the 3 Series has had average reliability in most Consumer Report's publications since 1995 before falling to below average reliability for in CR's latest publication. The 5 Series has been hisorically above average to average reliability. The X5 is not really not that reliable and is recalled filled.
While I generally agree that the Acura TL is likely to have a high resale and be extremely reliable, I don't think it is fair to say that the resale will be a lot better than a BMW 3 or 5 series. BMW is one of the few makes out there that consistently has higher resale values than Acura/Honda.
Comments
Here is the deal: to be a true luxry sports sedan (coupe), it must meet minimum requirements:
1). Rear driven
2). 50-50 weight balance
3). driver attracting features (low profile tire, large wheel, big brake, LSD and etc).
To be a hot competitor, it also has to do the followings:
1). competitive price (other than BM and MB brands)
2). high quality material inside and outside
3). Nice to have features (options)
Honda has a long history of being high on quality of driving chains but low on everything else. In doing so it's become the most profitable mass car/truck manufacturer in the world (But now is losing ground in luxury segment and being squezzed at low end). When quality was still a slogan at most of other manus, it's ok for Honad(Acura included) to sell cheap on their vehicles. But with everybody catching up, it's no more, especially at luxury brand.
To prove a point, have you noticed how Acura dress up MDX's waste pipes? It was screwed with a chromed cover on Pilot's (or they are all the same iron with Acura covered with a fake silver).
Acura needs to look no further than Infiniti for a clue. I am always puzzled to think why Honda wants to be a value leader (instead of a premium leader) in every segment it competes given its reputation of gold standard of quality and reliability? I can only self explain that Handa is so entrenched (so become trapped) in their 70-80's thinking that they forgot they are living in 21st century.
Give TL (or XL) a BMW 3-5 series type of design with more HP, it can charge any price that is only second to BMW's.
A true sports car/sedan will always give the driver a feeling of full control, even when pushed.
But, as the article said, "...when pressed the tail can slide out unexpectedly--even with stability control...", you've got a serious problem.
I hope muspod is right about the G35's crash test results.
To be a hot competitor, it ALSO has to do the following:
1). competitive price (other than BM and MB brands)
2). high quality material inside and outside
3). Nice to have features (options)
Acura has 2/3 BUT The Acura is wrong wheel drive, 70/30 balance, and some driver features
read the post correctly bodble2
The TL is a gussied up accord for someone that has been in accord for 20 years. And there's nothing wrong with that. But don't fool yourself thinking that this is a true sports sedan.
Next week, this discussion will be closed as Edmunds is moving this to their "new" rather than "future" category, and we'll continue in the active Acura TL discussion. Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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Review your vehicle
This is a common fallacy that's promoted by people who want to discredit CR's auto tests. CR doesn't have a single pool of staffers who test anything that comes up. Their staff for testing autos is dedicated to that purpose and hired with the necessary qualifications to perform those tests. Those folks have nothing to do with microwaves and vacuum cleaners.
I'd agree that, given CR's lack of "enthusiast" leanings, they may not be the first and best source for tests of sporty cars. But the tests are certainly valid. After all, you have to look at all auto tests with some grain of salt... some of the gushing fanboy reviews that you see in enthusiast magazines are also pretty suspect.
"Acura has 2/3 BUT The Acura is wrong wheel drive, 70/30 balance"
Try 61/39 for the automatic, 60/40 for the manual. 70/30 isn't even close. If you want your points to be considered credible, you may want to work on the accuracy of your claims.
Finally Acura sales have been doing good. Just because the 96-98 TL was priced in the same price range as the 04 model isn't a bad thing. The 96-98 TL was a beautiful car inside and out. A little bland on the back end but the headlights made up for it. Had I had 33K in 1997 to burn on a car the TL would have been a perfect choice. The 02-03 TL styling was perfect in my book. A couple creases missing on the back end but still looks very classic to me.
when the AC is off. I turned off the climate control and when I put my car into P after extended driving, the engine would rev up to about 2000 rev/m and then down to about 1000.
When I switch the ignition on and then turn it back on, everything seems to be normal.
Right. If traction control does not engage when nudging the car onto the road, it must be lacking torque.
"The designers must also have spent some time sitting in a G35, as it's about as bad with the cheap plastic chrome." - jonesok1
There are some chrome bits in the TL, but they've very minor details. I've got a sneaking suspicion that this remark actually references the aluminum trim (which is real). Care to clarify?
And why do you keep assuming that TL owners think the TL is a "true sports sedan". varmint earlier had posted that the TL is a combination of luxury and sport, and I think that's how most TL buyers look at it.
Take talon95's advice. Do your homework, or else you'll be nothing but a troll.
I'm not sure what a "true sports sedan" really is, because there are some "family sedans" (like the Mazda6, Altima 3.5, and V6 versions of the Accord) that offer performance on par with so called "sports sedans." But, the Acura FWD vehicles compete well with most "sports sedans."
Rear wheel drive definitely offers signficant handling advantages, but you can get excellent handling in a FWD'er as well. I don't think the Acura is going to give you the kind of balance and "sports sedan" experience of a BMW, but the Acura TL has a different mission. It is upscale vehicle with sporty performance and lots of features. Sort of a halfway point between the Lexus ES300 and the sportier sedans (e.g., BMW 3 and 5 series).
I agree that Acura doesn't offer the same prestige as MB, BMW, and Lexus, but who cares? I'm interested in performance, comfort, and looks, not prestige.
talon95 - that was a lucid and balanced take on CR. I always look at CR with a grain of salt, because they tend to overemphasize the practical aspects of a vehicle and they care little about style and fun. If we all listened to CR, we'd all be in Camrys and Accords. But, I also find their tests to be more balanced and even handed than enthusiast mags (which seem to gush about every non-American make - particularly vehicles from Honda, Toyota, and BMW).
Incidently, I find the road tests here at Edmunds to be a nice middle ground.
I've driven the new Accord, and the new TL is way more car than the Accord. The Accord is a great car for what it is, but it is in a different league.
You have to listen to the demo DVD-A disk to really appreciate the sound system. Even the best sounding 2-channel system is lacking after listening to multi-channel music. There is more to music than highs and deep base. DVD-A adds another dimension to the sound.
Acura must figure that rear drive and weight balance will at least cost 2-3K and if they can sell TL in the same price range, it scores a profit. Same old thinking and leave out car enthusiasts. It does that at a cost of losing out potential customers! Maybe I was wrong to look up Acura to satisfy my driving needs.
Acura takes FWD as far as it will go without killing the luxury and practical aspects of the vehicle. That's why many Honda/Acura cars like the CL-S, TSX, and Integra have been described by various enthusiast mags as, "the best FWD ever". Which is as much performance as the average driver will ever need on public roads.
If you want a performance oriented car, you will have to sacrifice something. With the G35, that sacrifice is interior quality. With the IS300, it's interior space. If you wont accept any compromises, then you had better be ready to fork over the dough and saddle up to a 5 Series.
Your typical driver isn't all that focused on the issue of FWD vs. RWD. They just want an extremely comfortable upscale car with good performance.
Infiniti has no niche yet except maybe Affordable Performance.
And Lexus: They're all messed up. One end you're selling sport-sedans (IS300) and on the other end you're trying to sell comfy cruisers. (ES330) They need a niche.
People forget it was the Acura Legend from the Japanese auto makers in the late 80's, which got the recognition as their first luxury vehicle. Lexus and Infiniti followed once they seen the success of this new division from Honda.
I personally believe that Acura is just as "prestige" as Lexus and Infiniti. The fact is you can't go wrong with any of those 3 brands (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus) in terms of a great quality car that are also fun to drive, not to mention the huge savings over the BMW's (which any more get those average & below average quality/reliability marks from C/R).
Anyway, my mother-in-law who drives Benzes, Jags, and Lexuses, will not even consider an Acura.
I hear Acura is going this route for the RL in the very near future. Anybody have any info on this? Should Acura go this route?
Kahunah - There are dozens of rumors about the RL (a whole other thread). Most likely is a strong V6 or maybe a V6 and hybrid electric. It'll be FWD or AWD if the electric hybrid route is taken.
But think of what Acura/Honda can do with a state-of-the-art V8? RL, NSX, MDX, Pilot, maybe even a light truck line. How about a TLX?
Food for thought...
Infiniti could use a entry sporty model like the RSX. Brings in younger buyers and starts them off on the ladder. Sell em' an RSX at loss, then make money on them as they trade that RSX for a TSX, the TSX for a TL, the TL for an RL, and finally add an MDX/Pilot/Odyssey as a second car. And then you've made a lotta money off one person.
I do think Acura does off the best value for you dollar. Lexus uses better interior materials than Acura does in their cars but Lexus's are not my taste.
BMW: the 3 Series has had average reliability in most Consumer Report's publications since 1995 before falling to below average reliability for in CR's latest publication. The 5 Series has been hisorically above average to average reliability. The X5 is not really not that reliable and is recalled filled.
One thing I haven't heard you guys talk about is whether or not the new TL has a limited slip diferential?