Older Acura TLs

merc1

Unless something has changed that is indeed the case. Check out the cars for yourself. Now Saab *may* have ceased with this practice due to GM's cost cutting, but the all the previous generation Saabs had real leather covering the entire seat. This was, at one time a common European car practice. The back of the seats in the Lexus GS are pure vinyl. Only the Ultra version of the LS430 may differ, I'm not sure.

M

billyperks

I just took a detailed look a the 2004 TL on the Acura web site, and guess what- I ain't losing any sleep at all.

Not that I am bashing the new design, I still think the 2003 as a more cleaner exterior look than the new design.

The interior is a different story-more gadgets to play with.

I am happy I did not hold out-saved at at least $6,000.00.

I will laugh all the way to the bank.

king_george

Sure the looks of the new 2004 TL aren't ground breaking or jaw dropping but like the famous saying goes "Don't judge a book by its cover". I haven't driven the new TL yet but judging by all of the characteristics spoken about it on various web sites this new TL should perform, handle, and respond much cleaner. From what I've read about it, it has a couple improvements to help handling such as wider stance, wider rims/tires, shorter body than 2003 model...all of which help it handle in a more sporty sense. As goes for performance the new TL has drive by wire (which should help throttle response and engine response time, it has a better compression ratio, much more hp than the previous standard TL, more aerodynamic, etc.
Therefore getting the new TL isn't only based on the looks of the new TL but it's new features.
So if getting a good deal on a 2003 TL (type-S I hope) is your idea of doing the right thing than by all means go for it...actually a great idea.
But if your like me and like all the advancements Acura has done to the new TL than you would not mind spending some extra money or waiting a bit and then getting it.

billyperks

Approx. $6,000.00 more for what? handling.
How much can you handle at 55 mph.

I don't want to sound envious of others who have a pending purchase for this car.
All I am saying is- for the $29, 200.00 I spent on my white diamond pearl "s" I have a whole lot a car.

And by the way- I have fog lights

Bottom line, if you have the dough spend it- I just don't think it is a MAJOR step up from the 2003- major but not jaw dropping magor.

mmm17

OK, I own a 2000 Acura TL, I've waited 6 months for the new 2004 Acura TL to come out. I've spoken to 2 local dealers and they told me a 2004 TL with Auto and navigation will not be available until some time in december, maybe. I was told I could order a TL with auto and nav and should expect delivery in early december. The dealer said all initial TLs will no have the nav included. The deposit to order a new TL is $1,000 and the dealer said I could "walk away" with my deposit if I didn't like the car. Has anyone every ordered a car before? I'm concerned because the dealers say the cars will sell at full list, I'd be leasing but they do not have any details on leasing rates or programs. I've decided to look at some other cars in case the dealers just will not negotiate on the new TL or the lease payment are just too high. I'd like to keep my 48month, no cap cost lease payments under $500 per month. I looked at the Lexus GS300, Loved the car but in New England I am too concerned about the rear wheel drive. My biggest factors in a new car are navigation and 2 front seat cup holders (yes, I'm serious). I am thinking about the Jaguar X type, I've read there has been an equipment upgrade and 2 cup holders have been added, I'd need the 3.0 V6 with voice activated controls (just like in the new TL) so it would be a pretty loaded car, may be outside of my $500 per month price range. Anyone out there have any recommendations? Also was thinking of the Volvo S80 but I think it may be an "old man's" car.

king_george

Saving $6 grand on a 2003 TL isn't a bad idea...actually i would reccomend it to anyone.
But for myself i like the new TL and what it offers. I don't have anykind of deposit on it or anything. When it comes out i'll test drive it and about six months from it's release date (if i liked the test drive) i'll purchase it (and hopefully shave a few grand off the price ...maybe not $6grand but 2 or 3 grand would be fine).
BTW...Good choice on the white diamond pearl color. That's actually my favorite for the 2003 TL.
Therefore everyone to there own choice and you made a good one...
Plus i like the idea of an A-spec with 18" rims, lowered suspension, and a full body kit.

mmm17

My problem is my 2000 TL has 59,000 miles on it and I do not want to own a car out of warranty. I'd like to buy before the end of October so waiting six months would not be good for me. I am going to my dealer on October 6th (the official on sale date for the new TL) to test drive the car and if I like it, I will order an auto with nav and hope in comes in before the end of the year.

s852

That combination is so common that is hard to believe they will delay it.
Are you sure the dealer is not pressuring you to buy a 2003 now?

mmm17

My dealer is NOT trying to get me to buy a 2003 TL, in fact I asked what the lease rates on a 2004 RL would be and he said don't buy that, what for the new TL. No pressure from them so far so I am happy about that. My dealer was at a local "ride & drive" for the new TL on September 15th. He said the car was much smoother than the '03 TL, the front seats were more comfy but the back seat was smaller. He said Acura is releasing 9000 TLs for the October 6 launch and that every dealer was getting 1 2004 TL with auto and no nav to use as a demo. He said the factory needs time to ramp up before the navigation cars are produced. He even told me that the auto TL with nav will be a "rare bird" intil late december.

billyperks

Not to sound hypocritical-

Do you think the A-SPEC package would fit on a 2003 Type "S"?

I would definitly go for the 18"s with the Brembo's.

Braking is the only criticism I have with my Type "s".
I had Mazda Millenia before I got the "S" and the brakes were far more better than the Acura.

jchan2

The dealer told you to wait for a new TL instead of picking up one of those RLs with a $2000 bonus direct from Acura? You must have a very friendly dealer. My Acura dealer is saying nothing about the new TL. Just telling us that the couple of RLs that they have are on sale at $39,995 a piece.

richard52

Any info on the traction control on the new TL? I hope it's an all speed system not the low speed version on the current TL

king_george

18" rims with brembos should fit on the 2003 TL as long as the wheel bolt count is the same and the configuration is similar for the brakes...it'll be expensive but all is possible...but if u spend that much on making ur 2003 TL type-S into an A-spec it'll cost you like 3grand. IMO it's not worth it...your brakes are probably sweet as is. That's another one of the reasons i'm waiting for the 2004 TL.

king_george

I wanna new TL but i'm having a hard time deciding between 6MT or the Auto w/ manumatic.
I love the idea of having full control of the car with stick but like the luxury of having an auto (for those trafficy days in LA)with steptronic for the occasional fun of manually shifting.

What do you guys think between the two...
Plus it's said that with the new drive by wire throttle the response time and smoothness of the auto is really amazing.

jchan2

king_george...
buy the automatic with the shiftronic. That way when you feel tired you can have Acura do the work and when you are energetic you could do some shifting. You'd boost your resale because most American drivers are Automatic tranny drivers. Also, It may be easier to find a automatic tranny at intro time since Acura will build more TLs with the Automatic since most people buy Automatic transmissions.

varmint

Are you doing to drive this car like an enthusiast? If so, get the manual. The auto lacks the LSD. If not, stick with the auto.

midnightcowboy

The six- speed also comes with the larger brakes as well as the LSD. If you prefer youcan also get the HPT ( High Performance Tire) option. You can get all of this with gong the A-spec option. However, if you go the A-spec option on the automatic you get the upgraded brakes and the LSD. Your call. But I love manuals and to me the choice is obvious.

max63

Just remember, some of that $6,000 in savings is lost in the depreciation for the 03' model. Of course if you hold on to it for ten years, you would recoup most of that savings.

cooldad24

Yeh, I should consider the M6 too since my wife can't drive the stick shift. It will be me driving it. <lol>

tturedraider

hey y'all - the current TL has mostly leather on the seating surfaces. But for reasons that escape me, Acura put narrow (about an 1.5 inches) strips of vinyl at the outer edges of the seating surfaces - both the seat cushion and backrest.

The vast majority of automakers (even luxury marques) put genuine leather only on the seating surfaces. And center armrests. The sides and backs of the seats are in vinyl. A few use genuine leather on the door trim and inserts, but most use vinyl there, too.

Personally, I've never had problems with excessive wear and never had any cracking with the leather in any of the cars I've owned. I try to keep it relatively clean and treated with a moisturizer.

uncledavid

Ruski - Where did I say the tranmission from the TSX would be put in the TL? I said they would probably share some design features. The TL and TSX are not the same transmission and there is no need to worry about the engine somehow being too poweful for the transmission. I will personally be surprised if there are major issues with the new transmissions, but I make no promises.

Somebody else commented on the traction control. The TL will not have traction control - it will have Acura's new VSA system. That works at all speeds, but I'm told (don't know for a fact) that is not as effective a system as the ones in Infiniti and Lexus vehicles. I've put 4,000 miles on my TSX and never had the VSA light come on, but there is nothing from the sky out here (no rain, no snow, no ice or sleet).

King George - I live in Los Angeles, and drive a TSX. I opted for the 5-speed AT because of the traffic out here and regret it all the time. Yeah, you can shift it on your own, but you don't seem to have all that much control over the car. I quickly stopped shifting and now I'm in automatic mode about 80% of the time. I wish I bought a manual - the car would be a lot more fun.

Leather issues - Acura's seating surfaces are leather, but like the poster above notes, there is some vinyl on the seating surface. My TSX has perforated leather seats, and only the middle part of the seat is actually leather (nice leather which seems to be holding up well). The side one inch or so of the seat, which is not peforated, is vinyl. I don't think the armrest is vinyl. Acura cheaped out here, and I feel a little annoyed about that.

iwse

post #667 suggests VSA in lieu of traction control, yet I offer this excerpt from acuranews.com that suggests traction control is embedded in the VSA system. It seems to imply all-speed, not low-speed traction control, but not really sure. Thoughts?

"The Traction Control System (TCS) component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, TCS reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces."

uncledavid

TCS is imbedded in VSA, and it does work at all speeds.

jchan2

So what if the leather is not all leather on a $28K loaded TSX or even a loaded down TL for $38K for that matter. You still have a Lexus GS430 down the road selling for $49,995 with vinyl on some parts of the seat. If leather is on your mind, then I suggest the Saab 9-3. For just $25,995, you can have full leather seats. I don't know about the upcoming $22,995 9-2, but that's a different story than the 9-3.

tturedraider

just a suggestion - Honda/Acura builds very reliable cars and your model TL is a great car. I would suggest not worrying about being out of warranty - you've been out for 9,000 miles now - and wait 6 or 8 months for the "hot" to wear off the new TL and give the prices a chance to soften. Anyway, just my opinion, fwiw.

jchan2

Do not worry about being out of warranty on an Acura/Honda car. I have a 99' Civic with 73,000 miles on it and since the warranty went out in 2000, I have had 0 problems for three years and going strong. Just like the Energizer Bunny.

kernick

Well if you want to compare leather standards in the new TL to a "10", you'll be surprised by what I'm going to tell you is the "10" to compare it to.
I don't regularly ride in Jags, Mercedes, or even Cadillacs, but I have been in them over the years, and I get to an autoshow occasionally. But a contractor who is a building a barn for me, has a new F-350 truck. Not a regular one, or their luxury Lariat edition, but a limited edition King Ranch version. That leather is thick, looks like it belongs on a few hundred $ pair of boots or a saddle.

Auto vs. standard: fun-factor tells me manual; economy is a toss-up, practical says auto; I think the deciding factor would be actually driving the auto, and seeing how much fun autoshift is - how fast does it react.

bodble2

Higher resale (and easier to sell), if it's an automatic.

kyfdx

The reason for the vinyl on the bolsters is because thats the area of the seat that gets the most wear from getting in and out. Check out any BMW with the sport package and leather, and you'll see many wear problems in that exact same spot. I don't think they were trying to cheap out.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

I don't really see the problem with only having low-speed traction control. Unless you think you are going to spin the tires shifting into 3rd gear? Not a likely problem with a TL.

regards,
kyfdx

b4z

I am late to the leather posts but wanted to add my 2 cents.
Leather that is dyed is called aniline or semi aniline.
Since there is nothing covering the leather, only the best quality leather without any blemishes can be used.
because it is also the best quality it is also softer.
Lexus offers aniline leather and Mercury has glove soft leather which might be aniline.

Back in 1984 there was a class action lawsuit against Nissan who was using leather on the seating surface only. Nissan lost because they did not disclose it.

b4z

What about traveling over a patch of ice at 45 mph?

gladesteen

I found some nice pics that show what the A-spec will look like.

Go here:
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32f9678450e

My question is, has ANYONE heard about fog lights on the new TL?? I haven't seen one pic with them on it? Thats odd !

-Glade

bodble2

Are they really fog lights, or just driving lights? Unless they are also HID, they would be useless and redundant with the HID headlights anyway.

tturedraider

bodble2 - I agree with you. "Standard" fog/driving lights (almost always halogen) with HID's don't serve much purpose. And they look kinda funny, too, because the HID's light is SO MUCH whiter. This gives me mixed feelings, because I have always liked the utility and the look of driving lights.

That said, my mom has an Infiniti I35 with HID's and driving lights. As GREAT as the HID's are, I do still notice a little benefit from the driving lights putting more light on the pavement directly in front of the car. I just wish they didn't look so yellow compared to the HID's above them.

Also, I would say for the most part here in the U.S., the lights are more driving than fog.

And as far as Acura putting them on the new TL, I don't think they will. They are offered as a dealer installed option on the TSX, but they are still just halogen lights, so they look kinda funny. With the HID's there's just not a lot of use for them.

fwiw - here's my plug for HID's. I think they are fantastic. Personally, I will not even consider a car on which they are not available. Speaking of cheaping out - I think Lexus cheaps out on the ES by not making them standard equipment. As nice as that car is and as much as they charge for it, it's just plain cheap to make folks pay extra for them. Plus, I'm surprised Lexus is willing to have one of their biggest representations in the market driving around with regular headlights.

uncledavid

It has some sort of wierd setup that allows for the HID beams to point down and be used as fogs. I don't know the particulars.

I have the TSX with HIDs and the dealer add-on fogs. In most situations, the fogs don't add much because the HIDs are really bright. But, a few nights ago, it was pretty fog out here, and I used the fog lights. I found them really helpful.

jchan2

I think that fog lights either a) just add to your styling or b) if you live in a foggy area then you use em.
 What's the difference between dyed leather and regular leather?

dulnev

I have a 2003 TL-S with the "fog" lights. While they don't really help at all in the fog, they are still quite helpful for night driving. That's because they put light to the sides of the car, which helps a lot when you turn.

jchan2

then why call them "Fog" lights?????? Why not call them turn assist lights or something that implies what the lights actually do.

uncledavid

Dyed leather is a more expensive process, and generally a higher quality of leather. Basically, in the process, the color is absorbed into the leather itself. So, it will never come out. In the leather that you have in a typical Honda/Nissan/Toyota product, it is just painted on basically. So, lot of people complain about the color coming off over time.

I disagree with some of you about the fogs. I do think the help in the fog, just not a lot.

tturedraider

uncledavid - you are correct about it having fog lamps. I had forgotten about that.

This is from the Honda News website - http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/acura/TL/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?- *ws4d-db-query-Show***004651***-wieck_media***-***acura(directory- )TL(directory)***.ws4d?acura/TL/results(r)_text.html

"HID (HIGH-INTENSITY DISCHARGE) HEADLIGHTS
Previously, the TL had HID (High-Intensity Discharge) low beams coupled with conventional halogen high beams. The new TL headlights feature HID high and low beams, as well as built-in fog lamps. These bi-function HID high/low beams are made possible by a shutter device that mechanically controls the light output of the HID unit. When the driver selects high beam, an electric solenoid in the headlight moves a shutter forward, opening up a greater reflector area inside the headlight. When the lights are operated on low beam, this shutter repositions to act as a cut-off to keep the lighted area closer to the vehicle.

Compared to the previous TL, the new headlights dramatically increase the illuminated area, and are nearly 50 percent more effective at long range. The fog lamp illumination has also been increased."

me - Most cars with HID still use traditional halogen bulbs for the high beam function. Bi-xenon is the newest innovation in HID.

jchan2

the TL has foglights.

ruski

my TL hickups and studders when cruising at 50mph. I wonder if the next TL is going to inherit this feature.

bodble2

dulnev's earlier post reminded me of something: Why don't more cars have actual turning lights, ie. lights that aim to the side when turning? I had a '95 Maxima that had them. They turn on with the turn signal. I found them immensely useful.

tturedraider

bodble2 - why more cars don't have them I can't say. It is more of a domestic car thing. Quite a few GM models and Lincoln/Mercury models have them.

The I35 has them and so does the new Maxima (as did the previous one). My '91 Stanza GXE had them, too.

billyperks

I am not knocking the car but the more I see it the more it reminds me of the 1997 Accords- especially from the back.

Looks like Honda went back to the old body and beefed it up.

Just my opinion- maybe when I ACTUALLY see it my mind will change.

ash213

You are right. Also looking at full specs, it will not be priced too far from the current version, because it is not THAT MUCH different, for most people difference is more power (again not very much compared to TL-S of last generation) and off course larger tires. Other than that few things here and there, and that was expected. Nothing earth shattering. I know some people are going to point to DVD and stuff, but lets see who really can use it, and if you are really going to start a new DVD audio collection (if you can find some).

varmint

"What about traveling over a patch of ice at 45 mph?"

Then VSA is your friend, not TC. Traction control allows you to accelerate on slippery surfaces (by braking one fo the front wheels). Why would you accelerate while sliding on ice?

VSA will brake one of the rear wheels (most likely in this situation) keeping the car pointed forward, and not spinning around.

The reason why many say that VSA is not as effective as systems like MB's ESP has to do with braking. At least, this is what I've been told. (Wmquan knows quite a bit about this stuff.) Acura's VSA disengages when you hit the brakes. This allows the ABS brakes to stop the car most effectively. Systems like ESP will continue to moderate braking force (front/rear and side/side), even if you are stomping on the whoa pedal.

Which is more effective probably depends on what your goal is and also the conditions of the road. If stopping short is the goal, then Acura's design could be more effective if the conditions aren't too bad. If keeping the car pointed in the right direction is your priority, then something like ESP might be best while braking.

Past uses of VSA (in Type S cars, but not base trims) suggests that Acura sees this more as a performance enhancement, not a safety feature.

s852

Don't see any mention of it.
Surprising, since you can have a Honda dealer install a Honda accessory manual sliding rear sunshade on the Accord.
The 2004 TL should have a factory installed power rear sunshade just like Infiniti, Audi and Lexus, but it looks like it isn't available.

varmint

Based on what I've read, it looks like the TL has been upgraded significantly. While no one single upgrade should bring Handel's Hallelujah Chorus to our ears, there are dozens of incremental improvements everywhere. Handling is improved, the engine is improved, tires are improved, we now have a manual tranny option, the auto tranny is improved, the radio is improved, the navi is improved, safety, styling, emissions, interior quality and styling... It's easier to list the things that have not been upgraded. In short, the changes are evolutionary rather than revolutionary. A sign that the original was already pretty well sorted, but also that Acura is paying attention to details.

As summed up in this preview from Canadian Driver, "Prices are not yet finalized but Acura fully expects to bring the '04 TL in at about the same price as the previous Type S ($42,000) despite its more extensive standard equipment list and serious boost in performance."