Older Acura TLs

neuronbob

If you have your web browser set to "block pop-up windows", the mini-site won't work.

neuronbob

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/100518/articl- e.html?tid=edmunds.h..reviews..18.*

The existence of an A-Spec warms my heart greatly. This option gives us automatic drivers (darn wife! can't buy a stick because of her. ) a shot at the Brembo brakes, 18" wheels, aggressive tires, lowering springs, and aero kit. That tips the scales from keeping my current TL to seriously considering becoming a beta-tester. My current TL has 31k miles and is lowered 1.5 inches for MUCH better handling, the A-Spec is meant for people like me who have to have an automatic but need better handling...

woohoo!

sphinx99

So the TL arrives with an available 6-speed right out the door. It looks like it cures virtually every ill that afflicted the CL. And 270hp. I wonder how much it weighs.

varmint

"If the TL offers AWD, the question would then be why the need for the MDX and Pilot??"

Well, the cargo capacity in the TL stinks by comparison. And with all the crud one must tote around with your children, sedans are no longer family friendly. I've been off-road in an MDX. While it's certainly no Jeep, it does well enough.

Offering the LSD goes quite a way toward dealing with the same issues AWD might handle. As does VSA. The people who want to shave 1 10th of a second off their 0-60 times buy Mustangs, not TLs.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see AWD as an option, but I don't see it as a requirement for a near luxury sedan.

carguy58

Thats different. Alot of single people drive TL's. The MDX is a more of a family oriented vehicle. Besides if somebody wanted a family vehicle as car they would want an Accord, Camry or an Altima. The AWD factor if Honda wanted to do that kind of thing with Acura would be to compete with Audi's and BWM's.

swsms

The TL does not need awd since it is a four-season vehicle with front wheel drive. I'm sure Infiniti is offering the G35 with AWD to gain more sales in the Northern states where the weather is more inclimate and have actual winters.

Yes, AWD can improve handling, but after the initial thrill, how often do you reap the benefits especially going to work in rush hour traffic? And for those of us in Texas, Florida, Georgia, Arizona, and other southern states, AWD would be a waste in comparison to the incremental benefit/enjoyment it would provide (IMO). Yes, AWD would be a 'nice-to-have'for the TL but is it worth the extra 1000 (est) or $20/month in car payment to say I have AWD? Just something to think about.

Since Acura did an excellent job with the handling on the TSX, I'm positive that they can pull off the same feat in the TL.

Hey, I'm an Acura fan in the utmost, but sometimes I have to do a reality check every once is a while. I'm not hatin'....I'm just keeping it real....

Enjoy.

msgreen

the Edmunds write up didn't really mention it, but torque steer is often a problem with high performance front-drivers. It will be interesting to see what the other car mags say about it in their road tests...

dulnev

This has never been a problem with TL's. The 2003 TL-S has 260Hp, just 10hp less than the 2004 TL and it does not exhibit the troque steer problem.

dulnev

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that AWD has a severe negative impact on the gas mileage. Having said that, I would still take an AWD TL over the front wheel drive. I had a Subaru Outback with AWD before and man could that thing corner!

clpurnell

because the engine has no torque. Typical of vtec engines the horsepower/torque ratio leans heavily to horsepower. The TL was at a 20+ lb/ft disadvantage to the competition and the same is true for the 04 here are torque rating for competition.

300m 258
I35 246
ES300 220
9-5 229
w8 273
TL 232 04 (238)
a4 221
330i 214
cts(04) 252
G35 260

in engines with similar HP the TL loses in torque but it beats the germans with exception of the w8

varmint

Engine vs engine is not the way to go about looking for the potential of torque steer. Torque steer is a function of how torque is delivered to the wheels, not how much torque is generated at the engine's peak.

Even if one wanted to compare the numbers, you'd take measures at the wheels, not the fly wheel. And you'd do it at lower rpms, which is not where most cars reach their peak.

I can provoke torque steer in a CR-V. It's only rated for 162 lb-ft.

jchan2

Automobile Mag published their report on the TL. No torque steer problems reported.

stlgasman

I think the TL doesn't have torque steer because it has equal length half shafts.

automophile

stlgasman is correct. Torque steer is cause when the 2 drive shafts are of unequal lengths, as they are in most FWD cars. One way to control this is to make the half-shafts equal. It is usually difficult in FWD cars, but can be worth it.

Counting down to seeing and testing the new TL! If it is as good as our TSX, just larger, then it's my next car.

ruski

but the engine torque is quite low too, compared to competition.

varmint

Not anymore. Or, at least, not exactly.

The old TL and Cl were sold as the Inspire and Saber over in the JDM market. The new Inspire (there is no longer a Saber) is essentially a clone of the US spec Accord (not the new TL).

So the new Inspire may be shipped from the US to Japan, but it's no longer the TL.

Follow that?

varmint

Yes, unequal halfshafts are the main culprit in torque steer. That said, you can still use that design and not have "excessive" torque steer. There are ways to engineer around it.

How much torque is required to generate an excessive torque steer problem? That depends on how unequal the halfshafts are, or how successful the engineers were in dialing it out through other means. Like I wrote before (CR-V example), it takes a little effort, but I can provoke torque steer in cars with far less torque than any VTEC V6.

If your concern is over the fact that Honda/Acura engines do not produce as much torque as some of the bigger block competition, then you are correct. But that has nothing to do with torque steer.

richtheslick

Any pics of the A-Spec?
Estimated costs of the A-Spec?
What does the aero kit involve?(under body spoiler/side spoiler/front spoiler/rear spoiler/wing)

Can a Acura TL Automatic have a wing/spoiler thrown on it and a spoiler kit? or is the A-Spec kit the only option? My guess is it will be over 5k, for the package...

Thoughts?

richtheslick

Any specs/road tests out yet?
The Reviews I have been reading don't touch upon breaking #'s/0-60 or the 1/4 mile time.

Also, by going from 17 inch to 18 inch wheels, better shocks, and lower the ride by 1 inch on the A-SPAC version, can one expect faster times?

madlaw

Palm Beach Acura told me the A Spec package is dealer installed but they dont know when it will be available or how much it will cost. I doubt the modifications will change perfomance much except braking given the different pads on the automatic model and the extra rubber.

kyfdx

will most likely mean slower 0-60 times, due to greater weight and inertia..

vaughn4

On the Hwy I'm getting 29 - 31 mpg @ 75 - 80 mph. In the city I'm getting around 21 - 23 mpg, using premium unleaded. The car has about 5400 miles on it.

jchan2

I went to the TL minisite yesterday and the item lists are impressive. Looks like Lexus will have to do some serious discounting before it can even compete! Yes, the TL does base at a higher price, but it also has no options besides the A-Spec Package and the Alphine Navigation System. But, the ES300 bases at $1K less, but that's with no leather and no options what so ever.My estimate for the price of a TL A-Spec navigation, Automatic should run about $37-$39K. An ES300 with even the equipement the TL-NAVI stock has, should run $37K-$38K by itself. Talk about value!

bodble2

Acura Canada is apparently offering trading dollars (dealer cash rebate) of $2,000 for 2003 TL/CL Type S models and a whopping $3,500 for the A-spec, and I think $1,500 for the non-Type S models. I was told this by my salesperson.

Incidentally, she also told me the VIP launch date for the new TL will be October 13th and official intro date will be October 15th. Navigation system will be available on some models. Interior colours will be black or camel. No grey

neuronbob

kyfdx is right, larger rims will slow your 0-60 time....have to get down to 16's for that. The larger rims are purely for show. The lowering springs are for better handling, and the Brembos are theoretically for better braking.

I'm hoping that the dealer-installed options on the A-Spec aren't too expensive. Otherwise, I'd just have my local detailer do all that stuff for less.

We'll just have to wait until the end of September/beginning of October to see! That will be the final factor in deciding whether to bite or whether to wait.

dulnev

You sure you did your math right?

sphinx99

I'd be surprised if the 6-speed didn't do 0-60 around the 6-seconds-flat mark.

scott31

I'm sure he did....I've gotten up to 35-36 mpg.

stlgasman

I have a '00 TL. On the driver's seat, on the seating surface on the back, the leather is joined to a narrow strip of vinyl. At the bottom of (bottom left if in seated position) the cushion, the vinyl has cracked. Anybody have this problem? How much to fix? The strip runs all the way up the side to the top of the seat.

uvdavar

Has anyone had experience in purchasing the TL in Canada and driving it back to the States?

robr2

Do a search for "Canada" or "gray" here. You'll get all the info you need.

Bottom line - no warranty for the most part.

ruski

I guess it helps if I put the shifter in D5 instead of D4. But in D5 my TL-S burps and hickups.

stickyman

What is the A-Spec on the new 04TL?

Also, is there any problem with using Mobil One 5-20 in a 03S?
Thanks for the help

dulnev

35-36mpg is impossible in TL!

jchan2

I'll take the keys to my stock TL Automatic Navigation!

vaughn4

Yes, I did the math correctly. I've checked it several times and it comes out the same. I checked it this past Monday and it was 22.7 city driving. Maybe those getting poor mileage drive in much heavier traffic? More stop and go? No doubt the mileage drops drastically in bumper to bumper traffic; however, you shouldn't be getting lower mileage than what was on the sticker.

neuronbob

Refer to my link above to the Edmunds first drive to find info about the A-Spec. They give you the scoop, which has been verified on Honda News...

automophile

Here is the link to the Honda Press Site for the new TL - most everything you need to know - except the pricing.

http://www.hondanews.com/forms/acura/TL/index_text2.html?KW=TLtec- h+currentacura

I can't wait to get my hands on one!

bodble2

Wow!! That's all I can say. Can't wait till October 13th!

jchan2

I'll bet that Lexus is scrambling to find a way to still get sales without giving away ES300s or selling them into fleets! Infiniti has a smaller problem, as it will be introducing an AWD G35 while BMW still has BMW loyalists who would never buy a car other than a BMW while Mercedes Benz has the same but smaller customer base who would never buy anything other than a Mercedes Benz. So, the only company scrambling for a quick fix is Lexus with the IS300 and the ES330. RX330 sales could cover for the ES, but the IS is on it's own.

bigbear

According to the Honda press releases, the interior colors will include Parchment, Camel, Quartz (grey) and Ebony interiors.

b4z

The laundry list of improvements goes on and on. Very impressive.
I am curious as to why Honda didn't go with a longer wheelbase, since that is the current trend, and it provides for extra passenger space and improved ride quality.

ash213

Because they wanted to use the current Accord chassis. I think that is a big mistake, over the years cars are becoming larger as you said and they are going in reverse, turned me off.

talon95

But is the trend towards bigger cars necessarily a good thing? In the eyes of many, Nissan has not done the Maxima any favors by "super-sizing" it. If you want to see some recent opinions about these cars, see the not-too-great things that Automobile Magazine (October issue) has to say about the Maxima's handling in their recent sports sedan comparo (where it ranked last out of 12), and then see the accolades given to the TL's handling in their first drive.

Also, according to the same magazine, the new TL's interior space is the same as the last generation. Comparing the 2004 TL's interior figures to the family-sized 2004 Accord, using Honda's figures for both, here's some numbers:

Front leg room:
Accord- 42.6"/TL- 42.8"

Front head room:
Accord- 40.4"/TL- 38.7"

Front shoulder room:
Accord- 56.9"/TL- 58.3"

Front hip room:
Accord- 54.6"/TL- 55.6"

Rear leg room:
Accord- 36.8"/TL- 34.9"

Rear head room:
Accord- 38.5"/TL- 37.2"

Rear shoulder room:
Accord- 56.1"/TL- 55.7"

Rear hip room:
Accord- 53.5"/TL- 53.8"

Trunk room:
Accord- 14 cu ft./TL- 12.5 cu ft.

So the TL gives up a little cargo space, head room and rear leg room, but has greater hip and shoulder room. The Accord has been praised for its roominess. And based on these comparative figures, I don't think too many people are going to complain that the TL isn't roomy enough.

And in the final tally, based on what I've seen so far, I think that the TL redesign will be considered to be far more successful than the Maxima redesign.

bodble2

Downsizing the TL is actually a GOOD thing. The current TL is too big and bulky for sport sedan contention. But I think the achilles heel for the new TL may be the smallish trunk.

carguy58

I think Lexus made a mistake with the exterior styling of the current ES. I am young but the new one doesn't have classic look of the 97-99 ES 300's which were timeless looking cars.

As for downsizing the TL I don't know. I don't see alot of family's in the last 2 generation of TL's so the downsizing of the TL could be a good thing.

All in all I think the TL wins over the competition in value because of the extra toys it offers in the 04 TL.

jchan2

normally, a family with a TL in the garage would probably also have either an Odyssey minivan, Pilot, or MDX. Brand Loyalty works very well for Honda, as every time, I get satisfied as I upgrade into my next Honda. I'm on my third Honda, an Odyssey minivan. The ES300 got screwed up by Toyota designers who bought Pokemon Movies and watched them too often in Sienna minivans. The ES300 does resemble somewhat of a bloated Pikachu or something. The TL's trunk space shouldn't be a problem, as I mentioned earlier in this post, the owners probably have another car and that the TL is mainly a commuter car combined with a weekend sporty car. Anyone know if Acura still kept the fold down seats in the TL? I do know they are an option in the European Luxury Cars. (X-Type, C-Class, 3-Series)

wenreder1

.... my 2000 TL gets about 19 MPG (Premium gas) which is 80% "city", stop & go driving with A.C. constantly on. If I'm doing "highway" driving, such as a long trip, I'll be lucky to get anything close to 22 MPG (again w/A.C.) Premium gas down here is currently selling for about $1.85 gallon. I am forced to use my car for my job (computer hardware service) over 150 miles a day. My Company pays only 29 cents per mile and when I figured it all out, taking "accellerated depreciation" (due to high mileage), tire wear(Bridgestone SO-3's - soft, soft, soft), brake wear, oil (Mobil 1) & filter changes, I am actually LOSING money :-( !!

ruski

well, they pay you salary too, not just 29 cents per gallon, right?

dulnev

I get about 19mpg in the city and I've never had anything higher than 24mpg on a highway, although I only took one long distance trip in my 2003 TL-S so far. Maybe it's the heavy AC use and highly humid/hot environment?