Essentially a short-range wireless way for your cell-phone to connect to the hands-free system built into the TL. It replaces a wired connection, and requires a "Bluetooth" module in the car and another one in the phone to talk to each other.
I have a white/parchment non-nav 2004 TL. Other than the tires, which I replaced, I love the car. I use T-Mobile and have a Sony-Ericsson T-610 which works with voice commands/BLUETOOTH even though non-nav. Having come from 2000 3-series I can say this car handles incredibly well even with FWD.
Consider yourself very lucky if you've been able to get these tires in your size (TL) Because these tires are sold out for my car 300ZX 225/50/16 VR Rated. Tire Rack, Sears, and NTB have all said that Continental now has a 3-4 month backlog on that tire for other sizes. The surveys are positive for the tire..but the guy's at Tire Rack have never liked them..even when they were available in most sizes. Go figure.
If anyone is thinking about shopping for the holidays and just don't know what to get that special person who has everything, I have a suggestion! Edmunds.com Strategies for Smart Car Buyers is now available to purchase!!! Get one for all your family, friends, and don't forget one for yourself.
I received my copy the other day and it is a pretty slick publication. I wonder what the reaction the dealers may have if I bring it along as a reference during my next vehicle purchase? ;-)
just put those on my T5 a couple of weeks ago. Got them from tirerack. 205/55/16. I like them so far.
so are the stock TL tires really that bad?? I hate the thought of buying a new vehicle and needing to replace the tires right away. My wife would never go for it.
by the way, I was checking out all that info/videos/audio on the acura site last night. Good stuff. Really fuels my fire for this car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
You're right--it's almost unheard of for a manufacturer to raise prices by a couple of thousand dollars during the model year. It's unlikely that Acura/Honda would do that. Of course, GM and the other domestics raise prices as much as 10-12 times during the year, small hardly noticeable increments, in order to offset their incentives. But for those who want to wait a year for Acura to get the bugs out of the TL, I would not be at all surprised if Acura raised the price of the TL substantially for the '05 model, especially if demand is strong.
You're also right there is more competition out there than I acknowledged, though I would say that the BMW 325, though priced fairly close to the TL, has such anemic performance compared to the TL, that it's hardly competitive and that you have to go to the 330, which is thousands more, for an apt comparison.
I like almost everything about the TL, but the ride seems too firm for me, harder than the G35 and the BMW 3 series. Anybody feel the same?
I thought perhaps I could get some softer replacement tires for it, but in that size, everything else is W and performance-oriented, similar to original equipment.
Any solution besides buying an Accord or an ES330?
The short answer is NO.. If you don't like the ride of the TL, you aren't going to fix it with another set of tires. I'd look elsewhere. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
you sure could fix it with tires, as long as they are accompanied by 14 inch wheels. The taller the sidewall, the softer the ride. And then maybe you could retrofit some Lincoln Towncar springs to it. Man, that would be sweet. Just imagine turning your wheel and having the car follow your direction about 3 seconds later. Whoooo, that would be smoooootthhhh.
sorry, couldn't hold back my sarcasm very well, could I. Ok, the short answer ... its a SPORT sedan. Without the sport, you ARE just driving an Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
>> I do wish there were more BlueTooth phones >>available, as I prefer the operating system in >>the Nokia phones. It's the most intuitive and >>easiest to use.
Take a look at the Nokia 3650. It's the best phone that i've ever owned. Comes with bluetooth ,digital camera and a bunch of other features. Works great with my TL. Right now you can get the phone for only $50.
chas1: Do the Conti's you mention come in 235/45 17? I called Tire Rack and asked for tires in that size and the only ones they said were available were a Yokahama and Bridgestone RE950.
bodble2: No, I didn't check the tire pressure, and I know that manufacturers frequently overinflate at the factory so tires don't go flat sitting for months in the dealers' lots. The salesman said when I mentioned it that he's pretty sure the service dept. adjusted the pressure when the car came in. I should have checked it myself, because on previous occasions when I have checked tire pressure, it's much too high. On my wife's Volvo, they had inflated the tires to 40-45 pounds and it rode accordingly.
The ride on my TSX is too stiff for my tastes and I wouldn't be surprised if the issue is the same on the TL. It is not just a problem of it being too taut or firm, it is stiff and doesn't respond well to irregularities in the road. Far from being a BMW-like balance of ride and comfort.
As for the BMW 325i vs. the TL, yeah, the TL is a lot faster. But, the 325i will handle, brake, and ride better. It is very competitive overall with the TL,in every domain but reliability.
As for price increases, again, I point out that Acura/Honda have NEVER raised the MSRP on any car substantially during the model run. For all of the past models, Acura had slight raises every year, and then eventually came out with higher line models (the TYPE S program) that had more features and were more expensive. They've never done what you are suggesting (raised prices to catch up to some competitors) and they're not going to do it for the current TL. The TL will remain at close the current price point (except for adjustment for inflation) for some time to come, and will probably get even cheaper to purchase as discounts become available. So, you certainly don't have to rush to buy it now for fear that they are going to jack prices up.
BTW, how many front wheel drive cars are you aware of that sell for more than the TL? I can think of only one: the ES300. The A4 V6 frontrack and Saab 9-5 both retail for more, but both have incentive programs that drop the actual purchase price below the TL. The TL is actually one of the most expensive front wheel drive cars in the world.
It may be my imagination, but it seems to me that with your most recent posts, you're expressing an increasing level of dissatisfaction with your TSX. Are you beginning to wish you bought something else?
No. I'm just not one of those individuals who feels a need to look at his vehicle as being perfect. I love the way my car looks, inside and outside. I love the handling, transmission (although I sometimes wish I bought a manual), and engine. I know that some think the TSX is underpowered, but I see the drivetrain as a strength. I think the nav system is great, and find the fit-and-finish to be flawless. It is a lot of fun to drive and I look forward to getting into everytime. I find that I sometimes invent errands at night because I want to go for a drive in my TSX.
I don't like the ride, however. It think it is stiff and busy. I think the brakes are so-so and Acura choose poorly with the tires. I also think Acura customer support completely sucks.
Would I buy it again? Absolutely (although I'd be tempted to spend more an get the TL). Its a great car. It just isn't perfect and I'm realistic enough to recongnize that all vehicles involve some tradeoffs. But, the total package is a good one and I've been satistifed.
When people ask questions here, I'm motivated to be honest about potential limitations in the spirt of being helpful.
"I know that some think the TSX is underpowered..." I don't think so. Getting 200 hp from a 4-cyl. engine is great. It's almost the same hp I get from my 3.0 V-6 Camry!
I do appreciate your honesty in sharing opinions and information... thanks!
yeah i'm looking into buying a new TL this december and have not seen any confirmation on the A-spec from dealers. All i've seen is the various aero-kit parts & optional rims. I've not seen any a-spec with the aero-kit, rims, lowered springs, better brakes, badging, steering wheel etc.
Plus what's interesting is the fact that i hear that the A-spec will run somewhere in the vicinity of 3grand. It's interesting because when u add the aero=kit plus the rims on the acura website those alone add up to more than 3grand......what's up, when will A-spec be available in dealerships?
Yeah, I don't think the TSX is underpowered either. But, it gets that rap because it has a four banger. I love the powertrain on the TSX, TL, and Accord. All of these vehicles are powerful enough and have smooth engines.
You name it and I either test drove it or owned it. Regarding the ride of the TL, that's one of the things that sold me on the car. Not to firm, not to soft. The TL handles well with a good amount of road feedback.
Chas-1, I am getting my car TL this week. Is yours a stick or Auto? What made you swith to the Conti? My reason for switching is to find a tire that has better wet pavement traction stopping power than the Turanzas and maybe a bit better wear. Im not looking to drive this in the snow but. Thanks for your input.
You name it and I either test drove it or owned it. Regarding the ride of the TL, that's one of the things that sold me on the car. Not to firm, not to soft. The TL handles well with a good amount of road feedback.
Chas-1, I am getting my car TL this week. Is yours a stick or Auto? What made you swith to the Conti? My reason for switching is to find a tire that has better wet pavement traction and stopping power than the Turanzas and maybe a bit better wear. Im not looking to drive this in the snow but I understand that the Conti Extreme contact can handle light snow. Thanks for your input.
It really isn't accurate to compare the TL with a 3-Series BMW - the TSX compares with the 3-Series although it is many thousands less expensive.
The TL compares most closely with the 5-Series. It is almost the same size and weight, except where the TL interior has more space, and the engine is about the same size, except the Acura has 50 more horsepower.
However the TMV for a 530 is currently ~$20,000 higher than the cost of a TL, showing what an extreme value the TL is. If Acura were to add features costing even $2-3000 to the cost of the TL, there might not be enough difference to criticize.
To get 90+% of a BMW for 60% of the price with increased reliability seems like a Best Buy to me!
By the way, there is NO WAY the TSX is underpowered. My wife is still afraid to step on it with hers!
Yes, I know...my point is.. If you read the survey data on this tire and people's remarks you would think as I did and still do, that this is a very good tire in it's group. However, if you speak with any of the Tire Rack people over the phone, and ask about this tire as I did 3-4 times..you quickly realize that this same view is not shared by the Tire Rack employees. Call and ask about the tire..they are not fans of the tire. One of their points is that this tire has only been around 6-7 months, so how could it have such a high rating in the snow? Call for yourself...mention that it has a pretty high rating, and it sounds like it's a really good tire...and see what their response is..
I am a fan of the tire myself but it's back ordered 3-4 months in many sizes (NOT in the size required for the TL) Because of the price/performance I did plan on putting a set on my 300ZX..then selling the car next year, to buy a new TL.
The way I see it, the TSX is Acura's attempt to compete with the Saab 9-3, Audi A4 1.8T, and the BMW 325i. The TL competes with the 330i, Audi A4 V6, Infiniti G35, etc.
Personally, I look at it differently. I see the TSX as a niche vehicle that competes with only a small handful of cars (the Saab, Passat, Mazda M6, Audi A4 1.8T). I think the TL is the real competitor for the BMW 3 series.
The 3 Series doesn't compete directly with any Acura product. Or any Lexus or MB product for that matter. Audi's A4 doesn't either.
There's several different schools of thought on upscale cars. BMW and Audi use smaller cars with sharp performance characteristics. Lincoln and Cadillac have used big, floaty cars with big effortless engines. Others like MB, Lexus, and to some extent Acura have tried to work between those extremes.
Just because some of these cars are priced in the same ballpark does not mean they compete for the same buyers.
BMW and Audi does compete directly with Acura and other upskale makes. Maybe 10 years ago they were on the different level, but not now. Both BMW and Audi have more experience in building sports cars, but give another 5 years and they will be eaten alive by Acura Infinity an especially Lexus. Look at new TL this car will stand over 3 series in sales by the end of next year. And if you not convinced wait and see for new IS430 to enter market, this thing will destroy 3 and s4.
I pulled the trigger and leased a deep green pearl with parchment interior today. My favorite color combination with the exception of black/parchment- I just didn't want to have to deal with the maintenance of a black car. Details of the cost are posted by me in the "Prices Paid" section. I'll also post something in the "G-35 vs. Acura" section.
I won't have time to read the manual until this weekend, but I wanted to make some initial comments because you folks have been so helpful to me.
The car is fun to drive. The firm feel it has is one of the main reasons I bought it. The suspension system is terrific; went over some speed bumps today at a nice speed and hardly felt them. My previous car would jar me out of my seat at a slower speed!
It has a nice "throaty howl" in the engine. Love to hear it; opened the windows to hear it louder- it was raining today BTW.
The sound system has to be second to none. Carnegie Hall may have this beat, but I doubt if there's another car in the world that comes from the factory with the sound this 5.1 set-up produces. I'm a talk radio guy, but since I have XM radio now I may prefer to hear some varied music with very crisp reception and no @#^%ing commercials.
The interior is absolutely gorgeous. The blue hue coming off the dash at night is a nice effect. The leather seats are comfy. Guys, we're talking a $33K car here. For those of you who complain about the interior, you're insane. An S class Mercedes has a much nicer interior, but it's an apples to oranges comparison. You have to pay up $40K more for those oranges!
I think the BMW 5 series has a sportier ride and a more luxurious look, but once again it's a much more expensive car. The 3 series I looked at- 330xi was $11,00 more and it is a much smaller car. Yes, it's a fun car to drive and 2 buddies of mine have it. It feels almost claustraphobic in the driver's seat and the back seat is made for small adults or kids only. If you're over 6' I think you'd find the "cockpit" tiny. The trunk on the 3 series barely fits one golf bag. Acura definitely had the 5 series in mind with this car. To get the horsepower you'd have to purchase the 540 model; $55,000 or so, right? I'm a bit fiscally conservative when it comes to car purchases so this '04 TL fulfills most of my needs.
Initial concerns:
Winter driving. I live on a mountain and last winter I had snow tires on my car thankfully. People locally tell me their 3.2 TL's have done fine in the snow. I'll report back to you folks after our first snow storm.
What brands of snow tires do you people like to use on your cars?
Reliability. On page 85 of the 4/03 issue of Consumer Reports (the only source I trust) Acura is rated as the most reliable car in the world by 4 percentage points over Toyota and Lexus. I still may have leased a lemon. I've been told by a few sources that the "tranny" problem is no more; but I'm skeptical. There may be some new problem with this car, afterall it is a new model. BTW my production number is <500 so I'm concerned about bugs. Some of you have expressed that you wouldn't buy a car before it's 6th month of production.
It has many bells/whistles which increases the likelihood of problems.
Verizon doesn't have any plans for the foreseable future to introduce blue tooth technology. I may switch carriers and incur an early cancellation charge.
I'll give you people some more impressions after I ride it around for awhile.
Thanks to everyone, especially: uncledavid, automophile, jaydoll, 1violinist, kahunah, ksoman and bartalk2.
I bought the Silver/Ebony 6MT (I pick it up this Friday!). In Canada, the 6MT comes with Brembos, summer tires and no navi. So, I have to get winter tires. The Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2 and M3 (newer version of M2) is a performance winter tire that has been highly rated by Consumer Reports and TireRack (survey). Also, the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2 was the tire of choice by Car and Driver (Oct 2003) in a recent test drive of the 2004 Jaguar AWD X-Type.
BTW, thanks again for creating the 'Infiniti G35 vs. 2004 Acura TL' board. Learned a lot and had fun doing it.
Went to check out a used CL 6-speed, but turns out they didnt have it on the lot. Saw the TL for the first time in person. It's HOT. They had a few with the 18" rims and few all pimped out, definitely even HOTTER. Interior was impressive as well. The dealer was telling me how each dealership got invited to a press event where they got to compare the TL to the ES330, Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, Saab 9-5, Infiniti G35, and Mercedes E320 and he said aside from the 5-Series, the TL pretty much won hands down. He also said he owns a 5-Series, not an Acura, but he said they are expecting the TL to fly out of showrooms, and after seeing it, I expect it to also.
Thanks again kuhuna, you're a wealth of information.
Congratulations on your purchase! You'll have the best of all seasons; better brakes, shocks, tires and more fun with the 6MT in the Summer and good tires for when the snow hits. Tell us all about it when you get your new ride.
People never questioned how many cylinders in my Saab when I blew by them (4-250 hp)
Regarding the Coniti extreme contact tires- I think that if you were going down from a real hp summer tire, so should expect better wet pavement traction and also some traction in light snow. However, this will come at the expense of handling during extreme driving on dry pavement. For my drving style, it seems like a reasonable trade off. The problem for me is that the Turanza is rated M+S and should perform in light winter conditions and therfore, the idea of swapping out new tires at a cost of approx $600 when you are all done is a tough pill to swallow. The Turanzsa have no trade value at a tire shop and they would be a tough sell privately. Last but not least, in speaking with Tire Rack, they told thatthey would not bother going with the Conti over the Turanza but instead tried to switch me to Dunlops.
Question for all of the 04 TL owners- since I am not getting anything off the MSRP, I have told the dealer that I want the protection package and the winter mats included. Is this reasonable? Did any of you get these or any other goodies included?
Those goodies can really add up. I got the all-weather floor mats, trunk tray, splash guards, body side molding, locking wheel nuts, touch-up paint, a hand full of VIP hand car washes, and the option to purchase another set of rims for cost plus 5% for my second set of tires.
BTW, which Dunlops did TireRack recommend over the Turanzas?
pg48477 - That's not exactly what I wrote. Acura does compete with BMW on the brand level. On the level of the each model (one car, not the whole brand), Acura does not have a direct competitor.
The 330 is a $35K compact car. The TL is a $35K mid-size car.
The X5 is a $50K sports-oriented, full-lux, vehicle with no little utility. The MDX is a $40K blend of near-lux and utility.
The 5 series is a $50-60K mid-size car. The RL is a $40K full-size car.
I understand that price is a big factor when it comes to buying a car. That's why many will shop the TL against a similar priced 3 Series. But that's not the only factor. Passenger volume, trunk space, handling performance vs engine peformance, RWD vs FWD, and other traits inherent in the design of the vehicles are also very important.
Please check my posting in "Prices Paid" and you'll see the things I was given. I leased, and the deal was based on MSRP, though you'll see that defacto, the MSRP was discounted a small amount.
It really depends where you live also. Someone from NY State said the dealer gave them $500 off MSRP without even beginning negotiations. Protection package = Extended warranty? If that's what you mean I doubt they'd give you the 7/75K extended warranty for free, but you could always try. At my dealer they wanted $1010 for it. On one posting I saw multiple accesories thrown in complimentary.
I replaced my stock (205-60 x 16) Michelins with 215-55x16 Continental Touring Contacts. I think it improved wet weather adhesion a little and it has a slightly better steering feel, I think. The Michelins rode a little better (possibly because it was a taller tire) but the difference was slight, due to the Acura's soft springing. I think the tire dimension is somewhat smaller than stock, which has given me perhaps a 2-3% speedo error (it reads fast). The original Michelins lasted me 61,000 or so miles, and I didn't wait to the last minute to replace them - but I thought their handling and feel were not to my liking. The Continentals worked out somewhat better and are likely to last more than 50,000 miles. In addition, they were significantly less expensive than replacement Michelin MXV4 Plus tires, which the car originally had.
A friend tells me that 225-55x16 will fit the stock wheels, won't cause fender interference, and has a closer rolling radius than my tires, but I don't know that first-hand.
I agree that the BMW and Acura products differ in some fundamental ways. But, I still suspect that drivers cross-shop both. I know I test drove the BMW 325 and Audi A4 before opting to puchase my TSX.
Comments
http://www.bluetooth.com/tech/products/prods.asp?SCAT=14&A=S&- amp;CAT=14&CAT2=24&go.x=11&go.y=2
or try
http://www.bluetooth.com/tech/products/
I received my copy the other day and it is a pretty slick publication. I wonder what the reaction the dealers may have if I bring it along as a reference during my next vehicle purchase?
;-)
Please share any comments and observations in the Edmunds.com's New Book: Strategies for Smart Car Buyers discussion in News & Views.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhpas.jsp
so are the stock TL tires really that bad?? I hate the thought of buying a new vehicle and needing to replace the tires right away. My wife would never go for it.
by the way, I was checking out all that info/videos/audio on the acura site last night. Good stuff. Really fuels my fire for this car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
You're also right there is more competition out there than I acknowledged, though I would say that the BMW 325, though priced fairly close to the TL, has such anemic performance compared to the TL, that it's hardly competitive and that you have to go to the 330, which is thousands more, for an apt comparison.
I thought perhaps I could get some softer replacement tires for it, but in that size, everything else is W and performance-oriented, similar to original equipment.
Any solution besides buying an Accord or an ES330?
regards,
kyfdx
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sorry, couldn't hold back my sarcasm very well, could I. Ok, the short answer ... its a SPORT sedan. Without the sport, you ARE just driving an Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Take a look at the Nokia 3650. It's the best phone that i've ever owned. Comes with bluetooth ,digital camera and a bunch of other features. Works great with my TL. Right now you can get the phone for only $50.
http://www.attwireless.com/business/buy/index.jhtml?page=shop&- ;tab=phonedetail&filter=&id=400083
chas1: Do the Conti's you mention come in 235/45 17? I called Tire Rack and asked for tires in that size and the only ones they said were available were a Yokahama and Bridgestone RE950.
bodble2: No, I didn't check the tire pressure, and I know that manufacturers frequently overinflate at the factory so tires don't go flat sitting for months in the dealers' lots. The salesman said when I mentioned it that he's pretty sure the service dept. adjusted the pressure when the car came in. I should have checked it myself, because on previous occasions when I have checked tire pressure, it's much too high. On my wife's Volvo, they had inflated the tires to 40-45 pounds and it rode accordingly.
As for the BMW 325i vs. the TL, yeah, the TL is a lot faster. But, the 325i will handle, brake, and ride better. It is very competitive overall with the TL,in every domain but reliability.
As for price increases, again, I point out that Acura/Honda have NEVER raised the MSRP on any car substantially during the model run. For all of the past models, Acura had slight raises every year, and then eventually came out with higher line models (the TYPE S program) that had more features and were more expensive. They've never done what you are suggesting (raised prices to catch up to some competitors) and they're not going to do it for the current TL. The TL will remain at close the current price point (except for adjustment for inflation) for some time to come, and will probably get even cheaper to purchase as discounts become available. So, you certainly don't have to rush to buy it now for fear that they are going to jack prices up.
BTW, how many front wheel drive cars are you aware of that sell for more than the TL? I can think of only one: the ES300. The A4 V6 frontrack and Saab 9-5 both retail for more, but both have incentive programs that drop the actual purchase price below the TL. The TL is actually one of the most expensive front wheel drive cars in the world.
sampy111 - Thanks for the Nokia info!!!
I don't like the ride, however. It think it is stiff and busy. I think the brakes are so-so and Acura choose poorly with the tires. I also think Acura customer support completely sucks.
Would I buy it again? Absolutely (although I'd be tempted to spend more an get the TL). Its a great car. It just isn't perfect and I'm realistic enough to recongnize that all vehicles involve some tradeoffs. But, the total package is a good one and I've been satistifed.
When people ask questions here, I'm motivated to be honest about potential limitations in the spirt of being helpful.
"I know that some think the TSX is underpowered..."
I don't think so. Getting 200 hp from a 4-cyl. engine is great. It's almost the same hp I get from my 3.0 V-6 Camry!
I do appreciate your honesty in sharing opinions and information... thanks!
Plus what's interesting is the fact that i hear that the A-spec will run somewhere in the vicinity of 3grand. It's interesting because when u add the aero=kit plus the rims on the acura website those alone add up to more than 3grand......what's up, when will A-spec be available in dealerships?
You name it and I either test drove it or owned it. Regarding the ride of the TL, that's one of the things that sold me on the car. Not to firm, not to soft. The TL handles well with a good amount of road feedback.
Chas-1, I am getting my car TL this week. Is yours a stick or Auto? What made you swith to the Conti? My reason for switching is to find a tire that has better wet pavement traction stopping power than the Turanzas and maybe a bit better wear. Im not looking to drive this in the snow but. Thanks for your input.
J
You name it and I either test drove it or owned it. Regarding the ride of the TL, that's one of the things that sold me on the car. Not to firm, not to soft. The TL handles well with a good amount of road feedback.
Chas-1, I am getting my car TL this week. Is yours a stick or Auto? What made you swith to the Conti? My reason for switching is to find a tire that has better wet pavement traction and stopping power than the Turanzas and maybe a bit better wear. Im not looking to drive this in the snow but I understand that the Conti Extreme contact can handle light snow. Thanks for your input.
J
The TL compares most closely with the 5-Series. It is almost the same size and weight, except where the TL interior has more space, and the engine is about the same size, except the Acura has 50 more horsepower.
However the TMV for a 530 is currently ~$20,000 higher than the cost of a TL, showing what an extreme value the TL is. If Acura were to add features costing even $2-3000 to the cost of the TL, there might not be enough difference to criticize.
To get 90+% of a BMW for 60% of the price with increased reliability seems like a Best Buy to me!
By the way, there is NO WAY the TSX is underpowered. My wife is still afraid to step on it with hers!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhpas.jsp"
Yes, I know...my point is.. If you read the survey data on this tire and people's remarks you would think as I did and still do, that this is a very good tire in it's group. However, if you speak with any of the Tire Rack people over the phone, and ask about this tire as I did 3-4 times..you quickly realize that this same view is not shared by the Tire Rack employees. Call and ask about the tire..they are not fans of the tire. One of their points is that this tire has only been around 6-7 months, so how could it have such a high rating in the snow? Call for yourself...mention that it has a pretty high rating, and it sounds like it's a really good tire...and see what their response is..
I am a fan of the tire myself but it's back ordered 3-4 months in many sizes (NOT in the size required for the TL) Because of the price/performance I did plan on putting a set on my 300ZX..then selling the car next year, to buy a new TL.
Personally, I look at it differently. I see the TSX as a niche vehicle that competes with only a small handful of cars (the Saab, Passat, Mazda M6, Audi A4 1.8T). I think the TL is the real competitor for the BMW 3 series.
The RL will eventually compete with the 5 series.
Michelin Pilot XGT
Goodyear Eagle RSA
Yokahama Avid H4.
These are all H-rated rated vs. the W-rated tires that are standard equipment on the TL.
There's several different schools of thought on upscale cars. BMW and Audi use smaller cars with sharp performance characteristics. Lincoln and Cadillac have used big, floaty cars with big effortless engines. Others like MB, Lexus, and to some extent Acura have tried to work between those extremes.
Just because some of these cars are priced in the same ballpark does not mean they compete for the same buyers.
qbrozen - thanks for the laugh...3 seconds later...that's funny
I won't have time to read the manual until this weekend, but I wanted to make some initial comments because you folks have been so helpful to me.
The car is fun to drive. The firm feel it has is one of the main reasons I bought it. The suspension system is terrific; went over some speed bumps today at a nice speed and hardly felt them. My previous car would jar me out of my seat at a slower speed!
It has a nice "throaty howl" in the engine. Love to hear it; opened the windows to hear it louder- it was raining today BTW.
The sound system has to be second to none. Carnegie Hall may have this beat, but I doubt if there's another car in the world that comes from the factory with the sound this 5.1 set-up produces. I'm a talk radio guy, but since I have XM radio now I may prefer to hear some varied music with very crisp reception and no @#^%ing commercials.
The interior is absolutely gorgeous. The blue hue coming off the dash at night is a nice effect. The leather seats are comfy. Guys, we're talking a $33K car here. For those of you who complain about the interior, you're insane. An S class Mercedes has a much nicer interior, but it's an apples to oranges comparison. You have to pay up $40K more for those oranges!
I think the BMW 5 series has a sportier ride and a more luxurious look, but once again it's a much more expensive car. The 3 series I looked at- 330xi was $11,00 more and it is a much smaller car. Yes, it's a fun car to drive and 2 buddies of mine have it. It feels almost claustraphobic in the driver's seat and the back seat is made for small adults or kids only. If you're over 6' I think you'd find the "cockpit" tiny. The trunk on the 3 series barely fits one golf bag. Acura definitely had the 5 series in mind with this car. To get the horsepower you'd have to purchase the 540 model; $55,000 or so, right? I'm a bit fiscally conservative when it comes to car purchases so this '04 TL fulfills most of my needs.
Initial concerns:
Winter driving. I live on a mountain and last winter I had snow tires on my car thankfully. People locally tell me their 3.2 TL's have done fine in the snow. I'll report back to you folks after our first snow storm.
What brands of snow tires do you people like to use on your cars?
Reliability. On page 85 of the 4/03 issue of Consumer Reports (the only source I trust) Acura is rated as the most reliable car in the world by 4 percentage points over Toyota and Lexus. I still may have leased a lemon. I've been told by a few sources that the "tranny" problem is no more; but I'm skeptical. There may be some new problem with this car, afterall it is a new model. BTW my production number is <500 so I'm concerned about bugs. Some of you have expressed that you wouldn't buy a car before it's 6th month of production.
It has many bells/whistles which increases the likelihood of problems.
Verizon doesn't have any plans for the foreseable future to introduce blue tooth technology. I may switch carriers and incur an early cancellation charge.
I'll give you people some more impressions after I ride it around for awhile.
Thanks to everyone, especially: uncledavid, automophile, jaydoll, 1violinist, kahunah, ksoman and bartalk2.
I share you concerns about winter driving. That's why I'm currently looking for a deal (who isn't) on a set of Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3s or M2s.
Having owned Honda/Acura products since 1992, I personally have no concerns about the TL's reliability...at any production number.
Good luck and happy motoring!
P.S. Many thanks for the acknowledgment.
Which TL did you buy? Are those Dunlaps you mention snow tires or all-season radials? If all-seasons, how do you think it'll effect the ride?
Greg
I bought the Silver/Ebony 6MT (I pick it up this Friday!). In Canada, the 6MT comes with Brembos, summer tires and no navi. So, I have to get winter tires. The Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2 and M3 (newer version of M2) is a performance winter tire that has been highly rated by Consumer Reports and TireRack (survey). Also, the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2 was the tire of choice by Car and Driver (Oct 2003) in a recent test drive of the 2004 Jaguar AWD X-Type.
BTW, thanks again for creating the 'Infiniti G35 vs. 2004 Acura TL' board. Learned a lot and had fun doing it.
Congratulations on your purchase! You'll have the best of all seasons; better brakes, shocks, tires and more fun with the 6MT in the Summer and good tires for when the snow hits. Tell us all about it when you get your new ride.
Did anyone put larger tires on the stock 16in rims? I was thinking of going to a 215/55 or a 225/55 tire (closer to the stock diameter). Any opinions?
People never questioned how many cylinders in my Saab when I blew by them (4-250 hp)
Regarding the Coniti extreme contact tires- I think that if you were going down from a real hp summer tire, so should expect better wet pavement traction and also some traction in light snow. However, this will come at the expense of handling during extreme driving on dry pavement. For my drving style, it seems like a reasonable trade off. The problem for me is that the Turanza is rated M+S and should perform in light winter conditions and therfore, the idea of swapping out new tires at a cost of approx $600 when you are all done is a tough pill to swallow. The Turanzsa have no trade value at a tire shop and they would be a tough sell privately. Last but not least, in speaking with Tire Rack, they told thatthey would not bother going with the Conti over the Turanza but instead tried to switch me to Dunlops.
Question for all of the 04 TL owners- since I am not getting anything off the MSRP, I have told the dealer that I want the protection package and the winter mats included. Is this reasonable? Did any of you get these or any other goodies included?
Thanks,
J
BTW, which Dunlops did TireRack recommend over the Turanzas?
The 330 is a $35K compact car. The TL is a $35K mid-size car.
The X5 is a $50K sports-oriented, full-lux, vehicle with no little utility. The MDX is a $40K blend of near-lux and utility.
The 5 series is a $50-60K mid-size car. The RL is a $40K full-size car.
I understand that price is a big factor when it comes to buying a car. That's why many will shop the TL against a similar priced 3 Series. But that's not the only factor. Passenger volume, trunk space, handling performance vs engine peformance, RWD vs FWD, and other traits inherent in the design of the vehicles are also very important.
It really depends where you live also. Someone from NY State said the dealer gave them $500 off MSRP without even beginning negotiations. Protection package = Extended warranty? If that's what you mean I doubt they'd give you the 7/75K extended warranty for free, but you could always try. At my dealer they wanted $1010 for it. On one posting I saw multiple accesories thrown in complimentary.
I replaced my stock (205-60 x 16) Michelins with 215-55x16 Continental Touring Contacts. I think it improved wet weather adhesion a little and it has a slightly better steering feel, I think. The Michelins rode a little better (possibly because it was a taller tire) but the difference was slight, due to the Acura's soft springing. I think the tire dimension is somewhat smaller than stock, which has given me perhaps a 2-3% speedo error (it reads fast). The original Michelins lasted me 61,000 or so miles, and I didn't wait to the last minute to replace them - but I thought their handling and feel were not to my liking. The Continentals worked out somewhat better and are likely to last more than 50,000 miles. In addition, they were significantly less expensive than replacement Michelin MXV4 Plus tires, which the car originally had.
A friend tells me that 225-55x16 will fit the stock wheels, won't cause fender interference, and has a closer rolling radius than my tires, but I don't know that first-hand.