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Comments
My first impression of the service people is that the're quite professional and very capable. The service manager made it a point to personally handle my problem since I had just bought the car.
I ran the TL through carsdirect. It is ALREADY showing a $300 discount. That may not seem like a lot of money, but consider that the TSX is showing no discount. I think this is a sign that prices will be coming down, and the tax issue may have something to do with it.
Has anybody fitted their TL with snow tires? I have a set of Blizzak’s for my current car that I hope to use. The tires are 225/55 16’s in size. I just don’t believe the standard tires (235/45 17) will work in roads covered with snow and/or ice.
Also looking for an opinion on the paint quality. Do you find it soft and therefore susceptible to stone chips? I had a ‘3M’-type film applied to my current car because of this problem.
Regards,
Chris
What SF dealership / sales person did you get this deal for $31900 (including DEST?). thanks
You would think that if navigation systems are such a hot item that everyone wants, that would also carry over when you sell or trade or sell the vehicle down the road, but that doesn't seem to be true.
Navigation costs $2000 plus the discount you lose that you would have had if you had purchased a vehicle without it. On top of that it doesn't add much to the potential resale value of the car 3 or 4 years down the road.
If you plan to keep the car for more than 5 years or so, at some point, Acura will stop creating updated map DVDs for the older systems and the system will become less and less useful the older it gets as the maps and Points Of Interest databases get further and further out of date.
And, yeah, you're unlikely to fully recover your 2,000 investment at trade in/sale time. So what? It is a lux item, not an investment. The Nav system is not cost effective. But, it is a lot of fun, and very useful. I don't regret having it and would definitely buy it again.
I have to qualify that by saying I live in a big, sprawling metro area (Los Angeles) and I haven't lived her that long so I don't know the streets. For me, the Nav is incredibly helpful. YMMV.
Just my thoughts....
The leasing companies have different rates for "With Navigation" and "Without Navigation" to account for this.
Look up book value of a 2000 TL with an without navi and you will see the navi only adds about $500 to the resale compared to the $2000 it cost new. That's a 75% loss in value, where the car as a whole lost less than 50% of it's retail value.
Since the dealers can gouge on the price and not discount when the car is new, the attraction of the navigation system is only strong for the new car buyers.
Used car values show that used cars buyers are not willing to pay much of a premium to get the navigation system.
If you only get $500 of the $2000 cost of the option back at resale time, plus you lose a $800 discount from the MSRP you would have been able to get on a TL without navi, the navigation system really cost you $2300.
There is absolutely no guarantee that there will be updated DVDs available for any length of time after the hardware in your car stops being manufactured and your warranty has expired. I am sure Alpine is more interested in developing new generations of the system than supporting discontinued models.
6 years from now DVD might not even be the media the maps are saved on.
Cars are a lousy investment anyway, but we buy nice cars because it gives us pleasure. Someone could make the argument that we should all buy Hondas because they're less expensive and just as reliable and are a better investment.
We did a major home renovation and people asked us if we thought it was a good investment. The enjoyment we'll get for years outweighs any expense we made.
The navigaton system only costs $25 a month if you keep the car for 5 years. If you feel you'll get that much enjoyment out of it then go for it!
so, anyway, i went to test drive last night with my wife in tow. I didn't look around the lot cause it was a bit chilly, but I take it they had alot in stock because I asked for a 6-speed and they had to go check the inventory sheet (i would think having just a few TLs would mean you'd know offhand what you had).
WE both really liked the car. The salesman also apparently hadn't been in the 6-speed before. I scared the heck out of him and he was loving it. After we got back he even went to another salesman to say "have you been in the 6-speed yet??!"
i was very impressed with how this car feels much lighter and more nimble than the weight would indicate. In comparison, its 200 pounds heavier than my current volvo yet feels 200 pounds lighter in the turns. And it REALLy holds the road well and feels planted.
I'm not ready to take the plunge just yet. If I do, I definitely plan on a longer test drive with more twists and turns to make sure my first impressions are accurate.
to all those who have one already, I think its a great choice. The only car that I will probably want to compare directly to this is going to be the '05 S40, but I might not be able to keep myself away from a new TL long enough for the new s40 to arrive. We'll see.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That said, out here in Los Angeles, I see little need for an update. The disc is very current for my area and I will probably not buy the upgrades that are released for several years.
Besides, I'm willing to be that most visitors to this site will not keep their cars for 8 or 9 years.
About $, I basically agree that you are not going to recoup your $2000 investment at trade-in time. If you are viewing the NAV as a cost-effective purchase, you are probably not going to be satisfied. I bought it because it enchances my enjoyment of my vehicle. I don't expect to get my money back at the end of the day.
Final point: out here in LA, it is somewhat harder to sell some Acuras used (like the MDX) WITHOUT NAV. There is a high demand for Nav on vehicles here.
Does anyone know what the date of the latest nav update DVD is for a 1999 TL or were the 1999s on a hard drive or CD? Is the navigation system DVD in the earliest DVD systems compatible with the current system or even the system that was in the 2003 TLs?
There are many rapidly growing communities with many new streets and street changes every year, plus many new businesses and points of interests going and coming. Even a 1 year old DVD won't be very useful in new and growing suburbs. A 2 or 3 year old DVD will be totally useless in many areas.
Back to paper maps and a local phone book at that point.
It would interesting to see if Alpine makes updated DVDs available for the older generations of their Honda nav systems once Honda has all the vehicles converted over to the new generation of the nav.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
Places like the suburbs outside of Las Vegas, Sacramento and even in San Bernadino county outside LA are still rapidly growing, so it is important to have up to date maps in places like that. It isn't just about streets. There will be plenty of new gas stations, restaurants and ATM machines that will not show up in an out of date DVD in growing communities. You might input the "Nearest Chinese Restaurant" and have it take you to a boarded up building that has been closed for years or is now the location a Starbucks and Jamba Juice even if you only drive in older, established neighborhoods.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
I had intended only to find the car, and have the staff at Sierra Acura (where we bought our TSX) swap for it. However the staff at 101 were so nice and spent so much time with us that I decided to make an offer. I was fully prepared with the real costs and my lease calculator in my PDA. I told the salesman I wanted $1,000 off, with the add-ons for free. He was gone a long time, and we really expected the usual hassle, but they took it! NO painful negotiating! The salesman told me that this is the ONLY one that they had ever discounted $1000. I got exactly as I had calculated, within a couple of dollars, and the car is just fabulous. By the time I got it home, I had forgotten all about my Solara, and was lovin' the quartz interior. Overall an A+ experience. I think I want to sleep in it tonight!
If you want my superb salesman's name, email me. They had a surprising stock, and even some TSXs. If you are anywhere in the L.A. area, Acura 101 is worth a visit.
Does the TL come with retractable outside mirrors, daytime running lights, and/or an electronic compass (if you don't have NAV)? Personally, I would love a foldable backseat to increase trunk space. But I guess Acura thinks the feature is not fit for an entry-level lux car.
camiro: the link doesn't work. Would you please check it.
I read the same thing about DVD movies playing when car was in park. It was properly an inaccurate comment made by a reviewer.
I didn't have the best buying experience, so I'd rather not give them free advertising. But since I live in SF, your choices of dealerships is fairly limited . . .
BTW, the rapid depreciation of computers haven't stopped me from buying them.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm gettting a 2004 TL next month and with out a doubt i will be filling it up with 91 octane but do u guys who know about Arco ....what do u guys think of using Arco gas to save some $$$ since the price of gas is high. I wanna keep my new TL in top shape but i'm not into paying more for something that is essentially the same.
Your advice would be much appreciated.....thanx.
I did NOT get the navi. First, I seldom drive places where I dont' know where I'm going, and a Thomas guide works well for me.
Second, the cost still bothers me a bit.
Third, I like having DIRECT access to the Audio and other controls without having to select a screen on the Navi. When they keep them separate, I will consider it.
If I find a REALLY start to need the nav assistance, I will buy the new Garmin Palm PDA with full navi built in, including voice prompts, etc. Maybe on the next one!
DVD-A(udio) is a GENERIC format for putting audio on DVDs instead of video, or other data. A DVD can hold about 7 times the information of a CD. This extra space can be used to make long-playing stereo audio discs with about 6 hour's playing time, or it can be used to hold more tracks of information for each song for true surround sound.
DTS is a SPECIFIC method of making DVD-As. DTS has their own proprietary encoding method to provide 5 discrete, full-range audio channels PLUS a subwoofer channel, called 5.1 audio. DTS encoded DVDAs require a DTS decoder. DTS is pushing this really hard, and will become the defacto standard for 5.1 DVDAs.