My local dealer isn't giving much. They wouldn't throw in the obligatory protection package (would only come down to $297) and acted like they were doing me a favor by giving me just under ($18,500) the Kelly Blue Book trade-in value of $18,700 for my 2001 TL (35,500 miles + chrome wheels). I'll wait awhile or look elsewhere.
my handfreelink is locked in the on position. now i can't use the radio or navi. the system is just frozen. hmmmm. also notice that when i leave the car parked for a while, like at work, the windows fall down a little. hmmm.
I had the rattle in my dash fixed today. When I hit a bump while driving I'd hear it and if I banged the steering wheel with my hand I could get it to rattle. It turns out it was a loose bolt within the dash. I've had a periodic rattle in the center console area, but haven't heard it lately- not nearly as annoying as this rattle was.
My first impression of the service people is that the're quite professional and very capable. The service manager made it a point to personally handle my problem since I had just bought the car.
Automophile, I think the protection package includes at least the trunk tray, the mud flaps, and wheel locks. I already have wheel locks, so its not something I'm interested in spending more money on.
I ran the TL through carsdirect. It is ALREADY showing a $300 discount. That may not seem like a lot of money, but consider that the TSX is showing no discount. I think this is a sign that prices will be coming down, and the tax issue may have something to do with it.
took my car in for service today. no luck, no techs. on sat. available to look at the car. rattle went away when i ejected cds and reinstered them. i'll keep you posted.
I just purchased a 04 TL Black/Black w/ Nav. Car will be shipping from the factory by the beginning of next week. Should have it by the first week of December. I was really impressed by the car (content & quality of materials). Due to the limited availability of the Nav equipped TL I had to pay MSRP. The dealer was willing to slightly discount a non-Nav version as he had 17 on the lot. My only wish was that the TL be rear driven. The other choices in this class such as the G35 (interior quality, exterior design) and 3-series (too small) didn’t appeal to me. Perhaps the next version will be rear driven.
Has anybody fitted their TL with snow tires? I have a set of Blizzak’s for my current car that I hope to use. The tires are 225/55 16’s in size. I just don’t believe the standard tires (235/45 17) will work in roads covered with snow and/or ice.
Also looking for an opinion on the paint quality. Do you find it soft and therefore susceptible to stone chips? I had a ‘3M’-type film applied to my current car because of this problem.
Went last evening to purchase TL: Anthracite/ebony. Did see another person picking up same combination: looked terrific. Dealer said after me no more until January 04. Did look at trim and, yes, could dent. However, no kids so not too concerned. Would rather have this than the cheap looking plastic trim. As said in prior post, $1000 under MSRP with 3.9% Honda Financing. Looked at G35 and took a test drive. Drives great but found the seats to be too small and did not care for seat controls on the side of seat. Looked at BMW 5 series - big bucks, feel so so reliability based on Consumers and high maintenance costs. Looked at ES330 - more like a Camry than the TL is like a Honda EXV6 and thought car is just awkward looking. In my view, if you are looking to spend around $33-$35, the TL is the best choice. First year cars do have issues. I bet the 2005TL will have a different trim, but I also bet it will be replaceable on the 2004 TL.
saw an 04 TL the other day. I saw the front of it. I like the front end very much. The silver color looked sparkling on that car. I didn't see the back end yet. The back end from the spy photo's will be my toughest thing to get used to on the 04 TL. One thing about Japanese Cars os you never like them the first time they debut. They always take a long time to get used too. It seems like American or German Cars the first time you see them you can make a judgement. With Japanese Cars its always you hate them the first 6 months they debut then after that they grow on you. I always wondered why that is with Japanese Cars.
I wonder why the navi is hot on the new cars, but when you sell the vehicle it loses a much higher percentage of its cost than the car as a whole. This makes the navigation systems cost even more expensive than it seems at first.
You would think that if navigation systems are such a hot item that everyone wants, that would also carry over when you sell or trade or sell the vehicle down the road, but that doesn't seem to be true.
Navigation costs $2000 plus the discount you lose that you would have had if you had purchased a vehicle without it. On top of that it doesn't add much to the potential resale value of the car 3 or 4 years down the road.
If you plan to keep the car for more than 5 years or so, at some point, Acura will stop creating updated map DVDs for the older systems and the system will become less and less useful the older it gets as the maps and Points Of Interest databases get further and further out of date.
It is not an Acura issue. Alpine makes the system, and the same data set fuels all of their Nav systems. There will probably be sufficient updates for some time to come.
And, yeah, you're unlikely to fully recover your 2,000 investment at trade in/sale time. So what? It is a lux item, not an investment. The Nav system is not cost effective. But, it is a lot of fun, and very useful. I don't regret having it and would definitely buy it again.
I have to qualify that by saying I live in a big, sprawling metro area (Los Angeles) and I haven't lived her that long so I don't know the streets. For me, the Nav is incredibly helpful. YMMV.
Being in the technology business, I have a bit of a different take on the NAV system that goes against conventional wisdom. I think that in another 3 - 5 years, NAV systems will start becoming standard equipment on not only high end cars but also the middle of the road brands also. Therefore I feel that NOT having a NAV when it comes time to trade/sell the car, you're at a disadvantage. We've only begun to see what NAV systems can do. With WI-FI taking off the way it is, I can imagine a NAV system not only providing directions but also having live updates on Traffic / accident reports and give you recommended detours, road construction / lane closures, and even live weather conditions. I really don't think I'm wrong in my thoughts as I have some pretty close ties to what many of the electronics/computer companies are working on. May even potentially see some co-branding of cars (ok, this is not the right term but oh well...) like Acura TL w/HP powered NAV system, etc.
Look at lease residuals for cars with navi and without and you will see a lower percentage of retained value on cars with navi. This equals higher lease expense than just the added cost of the navi.
The leasing companies have different rates for "With Navigation" and "Without Navigation" to account for this.
Look up book value of a 2000 TL with an without navi and you will see the navi only adds about $500 to the resale compared to the $2000 it cost new. That's a 75% loss in value, where the car as a whole lost less than 50% of it's retail value. Since the dealers can gouge on the price and not discount when the car is new, the attraction of the navigation system is only strong for the new car buyers. Used car values show that used cars buyers are not willing to pay much of a premium to get the navigation system. If you only get $500 of the $2000 cost of the option back at resale time, plus you lose a $800 discount from the MSRP you would have been able to get on a TL without navi, the navigation system really cost you $2300.
There is absolutely no guarantee that there will be updated DVDs available for any length of time after the hardware in your car stops being manufactured and your warranty has expired. I am sure Alpine is more interested in developing new generations of the system than supporting discontinued models. 6 years from now DVD might not even be the media the maps are saved on.
My '04 TL doesn't have a navigation system because this wasn't a feature I really wanted. For those of you who do want it, I say go for it! You shouldn't care about what the additional value of the car will be in 4-5 years. You should get the navigation system because you'll enjoy it, not getting it because it's not a good investment isn't a good enough reason. If you're going to enjoy using it for directional reasons or have fun with all the other features that should be a good enough reason to get it.
Cars are a lousy investment anyway, but we buy nice cars because it gives us pleasure. Someone could make the argument that we should all buy Hondas because they're less expensive and just as reliable and are a better investment.
We did a major home renovation and people asked us if we thought it was a good investment. The enjoyment we'll get for years outweighs any expense we made.
The navigaton system only costs $25 a month if you keep the car for 5 years. If you feel you'll get that much enjoyment out of it then go for it!
on the navi thing, I like it for more than just navigation. the voice controlled climate controls is also a nice feature in my opinion and, correct me if i'm wrong, that only comes with the navi, right? yeah, its another gadget, but i love gadgets and i don't want to skimp on my next car.
so, anyway, i went to test drive last night with my wife in tow. I didn't look around the lot cause it was a bit chilly, but I take it they had alot in stock because I asked for a 6-speed and they had to go check the inventory sheet (i would think having just a few TLs would mean you'd know offhand what you had).
WE both really liked the car. The salesman also apparently hadn't been in the 6-speed before. I scared the heck out of him and he was loving it. After we got back he even went to another salesman to say "have you been in the 6-speed yet??!"
i was very impressed with how this car feels much lighter and more nimble than the weight would indicate. In comparison, its 200 pounds heavier than my current volvo yet feels 200 pounds lighter in the turns. And it REALLy holds the road well and feels planted.
I'm not ready to take the plunge just yet. If I do, I definitely plan on a longer test drive with more twists and turns to make sure my first impressions are accurate.
to all those who have one already, I think its a great choice. The only car that I will probably want to compare directly to this is going to be the '05 S40, but I might not be able to keep myself away from a new TL long enough for the new s40 to arrive. We'll see.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
there is no guarantee, true. But, updates have been available over the life of these units in the past. And, you are not just talking about the TL here - the same basic system is available in all Acura products, some Honda products, and add-on Alpine systems. Alpine has good economic incentive to continue releasing updates.
That said, out here in Los Angeles, I see little need for an update. The disc is very current for my area and I will probably not buy the upgrades that are released for several years.
Besides, I'm willing to be that most visitors to this site will not keep their cars for 8 or 9 years.
About $, I basically agree that you are not going to recoup your $2000 investment at trade-in time. If you are viewing the NAV as a cost-effective purchase, you are probably not going to be satisfied. I bought it because it enchances my enjoyment of my vehicle. I don't expect to get my money back at the end of the day.
Final point: out here in LA, it is somewhat harder to sell some Acuras used (like the MDX) WITHOUT NAV. There is a high demand for Nav on vehicles here.
If that were true, why isn't reflected in the resale values of navi-equipped models? I would agree that most people would prefer to have the navi than not have it if they didn't have to pay much for it, but used car buyers don't seem to want it badly enough to pay more than a few hundred over the cost of a vehicle that doesn't have it.
Does anyone know what the date of the latest nav update DVD is for a 1999 TL or were the 1999s on a hard drive or CD? Is the navigation system DVD in the earliest DVD systems compatible with the current system or even the system that was in the 2003 TLs?
There are many rapidly growing communities with many new streets and street changes every year, plus many new businesses and points of interests going and coming. Even a 1 year old DVD won't be very useful in new and growing suburbs. A 2 or 3 year old DVD will be totally useless in many areas. Back to paper maps and a local phone book at that point.
It would interesting to see if Alpine makes updated DVDs available for the older generations of their Honda nav systems once Honda has all the vehicles converted over to the new generation of the nav.
First of all, in most communities the changes are nearly as rapid as you suggest. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in some parts of the states, but there haven't been many new streets added out here in Los Angeles since I've lived here. I've had the Nav for about six months and I've never once had an address not show up. And, btw, a friend with a 2000 TL has had the same experience.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
I would get navi not for directions, but I think that voice activated controls is a really cool option, plus I dont like the way climate controls look without Navi. With navi TL's interior looks like a 50K+ vehicle!!!
Yes it is fun to have while the car is new as long as you realize it is not like buying an optional automatic transmission where you might get 75% of the purchase price back when you resell.
Places like the suburbs outside of Las Vegas, Sacramento and even in San Bernadino county outside LA are still rapidly growing, so it is important to have up to date maps in places like that. It isn't just about streets. There will be plenty of new gas stations, restaurants and ATM machines that will not show up in an out of date DVD in growing communities. You might input the "Nearest Chinese Restaurant" and have it take you to a boarded up building that has been closed for years or is now the location a Starbucks and Jamba Juice even if you only drive in older, established neighborhoods.
First of all, in most communities the changes are nearly as rapid as you suggest. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in some parts of the states, but there haven't been many new streets added out here in Los Angeles since I've lived here. I've had the Nav for about six months and I've never once had an address not show up. And, btw, a friend with a 2000 TL has had the same experience.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
I am considering purchasing an '03 TL. I know it's the old style, but it's still a classy car! How much should I expect the dealer to come off the sticker? What should be a fair amount? I know as soon as I buy it, it's considered a year old. Thanks for the info!
According to Edmunds TMV price you can buy an '03 TL for about $1,000 BELOW invoice. For example the invoice price of an '03 TL automatic is $26,913 , and its TMV price in California is $25,780. Depending on your location in the US and how many '03 TLs sitting on the dealers' lot, you may be able to even get a better deal! Good luck!
Brought home my Pearl White / Quartz TL today. I just went to look, as this model seems rare. They had 2 of them at Acura 101 in Calabasas (outside L.A.). We took one for a spin through the winding roads in the hills out there, and I was even more sold on this fantastic car by the time we got back. I REALLY wanted the ebony interior, but Honda stubbornly refuses to put black in a white car.
I had intended only to find the car, and have the staff at Sierra Acura (where we bought our TSX) swap for it. However the staff at 101 were so nice and spent so much time with us that I decided to make an offer. I was fully prepared with the real costs and my lease calculator in my PDA. I told the salesman I wanted $1,000 off, with the add-ons for free. He was gone a long time, and we really expected the usual hassle, but they took it! NO painful negotiating! The salesman told me that this is the ONLY one that they had ever discounted $1000. I got exactly as I had calculated, within a couple of dollars, and the car is just fabulous. By the time I got it home, I had forgotten all about my Solara, and was lovin' the quartz interior. Overall an A+ experience. I think I want to sleep in it tonight!
If you want my superb salesman's name, email me. They had a surprising stock, and even some TSXs. If you are anywhere in the L.A. area, Acura 101 is worth a visit.
Thanks 1violinist! I will keep you posted. I'm trying to decide between an '04 Highlander, or the TL. I LOVE all the features on the TL, yet am at the stage where the SUV type may work better for me (first grandchild will be visiting once a year). But it is seriously lacking in the GREAT feature dept. My sister has an 00 TL-not a spot of trouble, heated seats, BOSE system, great cupholders---I'd better stop before I lose all sense about me! I just love the car.
I read in one of the reviews that the 04 TL Nav plays DVD movies when the vehicle is in park. Is that correct? With the enhanced sound system in the TL, the movie experience should be great, particularly if you are sharing it with your significant other (spouse or girl friend) at inspiration point :-)
Does the TL come with retractable outside mirrors, daytime running lights, and/or an electronic compass (if you don't have NAV)? Personally, I would love a foldable backseat to increase trunk space. But I guess Acura thinks the feature is not fit for an entry-level lux car.
Sorry, the TL's Navi does not play DVD's in park or any other gear! Perhaps you and your "significant other" can make up your own movie, including a high-speed chase scene on the freeway. The TL would be great for that! :-)
camiro: the link doesn't work. Would you please check it.
No compass in the non-nav. model. You can leave the lights on in the daytime if you'd like though. "Daytime lights"- my Volvo had this; it just forces you to always have the lights on- went through many headlights because of this. Doesn't have retractible side mirrors. Has a wonderful feature with mirrors: When backing up one can program a side mirror to move down automatically- very helpful when parallel parking so you can see the curb.
I read the same thing about DVD movies playing when car was in park. It was properly an inaccurate comment made by a reviewer.
I didn't have the best buying experience, so I'd rather not give them free advertising. But since I live in SF, your choices of dealerships is fairly limited . . .
is basically a computer. All the computers that I've bought depreciates to virtually ZERO within a couple of years. So if the Nav retains 25% of its value after 5 years, it ain't so bad!
BTW, the rapid depreciation of computers haven't stopped me from buying them.
I pulled the trigger tonight and got a silver/quartz TL with Nav. Dealer was sticking to MSRP but threw in the protection package. I think it's a great car. I traded in my 2001 TL. In the 2004 TL Acura's corrected all of the problems I had with the 2001: It has good headroom (I'm 6'1") and the steering wheel telescopes. Many other neat features like memory seats (and user definable profiles), LED brake lights, and great electronics are icing on the cake. It's also fast and handles well. The navigation system with voice recognition controls is cool and useful. Now I just need to get a Bluetooth enabled cell phone!
Congratulations on your recent purchases. Automophile, did you get the NAVI? Appears dealers will not budge from MSRP if you get NAVI but are willing to work with you without NAVI. Thanks
Can anyone explain the differences in these music formats? They both work in the '04 TL and in one's home DVD player. They sell them together in the same section of the music stores I frequent. They're also sold in the same oversize jewel case.
I've had a jeep grand cherokee for five years now and i've always filled up my gas tank at Arco gas stations here in So. Cal. The average person might think that Arco is cheap gas but i've talked to many a mechanic & car buffs and they say that all gas is essentially the same (since it must be inspected & approved for quality before it can be sold).
I'm gettting a 2004 TL next month and with out a doubt i will be filling it up with 91 octane but do u guys who know about Arco ....what do u guys think of using Arco gas to save some $$$ since the price of gas is high. I wanna keep my new TL in top shape but i'm not into paying more for something that is essentially the same.
I did NOT get the navi. First, I seldom drive places where I dont' know where I'm going, and a Thomas guide works well for me.
Second, the cost still bothers me a bit.
Third, I like having DIRECT access to the Audio and other controls without having to select a screen on the Navi. When they keep them separate, I will consider it.
If I find a REALLY start to need the nav assistance, I will buy the new Garmin Palm PDA with full navi built in, including voice prompts, etc. Maybe on the next one!
I agree that all gas is essentially the same. Some companies put a few additives here and there, but it won't make a big difference. I fill up at different gas stations and frequently (usually around the time I change oil) use a bottle of fuel-injector cleaner/gas treatment. It only costs a buck or two, but keeps the engine smooth and fuel consumption efficient.
DVD-A(udio) is a GENERIC format for putting audio on DVDs instead of video, or other data. A DVD can hold about 7 times the information of a CD. This extra space can be used to make long-playing stereo audio discs with about 6 hour's playing time, or it can be used to hold more tracks of information for each song for true surround sound.
DTS is a SPECIFIC method of making DVD-As. DTS has their own proprietary encoding method to provide 5 discrete, full-range audio channels PLUS a subwoofer channel, called 5.1 audio. DTS encoded DVDAs require a DTS decoder. DTS is pushing this really hard, and will become the defacto standard for 5.1 DVDAs.
You can access most controls directly if you have the NAV. There is a lot of redundancy in the controls on the TL (more so than on the TSX). Even in my TSX, I rarely go to the audio or climate control screens.
Comments
My first impression of the service people is that the're quite professional and very capable. The service manager made it a point to personally handle my problem since I had just bought the car.
I ran the TL through carsdirect. It is ALREADY showing a $300 discount. That may not seem like a lot of money, but consider that the TSX is showing no discount. I think this is a sign that prices will be coming down, and the tax issue may have something to do with it.
Has anybody fitted their TL with snow tires? I have a set of Blizzak’s for my current car that I hope to use. The tires are 225/55 16’s in size. I just don’t believe the standard tires (235/45 17) will work in roads covered with snow and/or ice.
Also looking for an opinion on the paint quality. Do you find it soft and therefore susceptible to stone chips? I had a ‘3M’-type film applied to my current car because of this problem.
Regards,
Chris
What SF dealership / sales person did you get this deal for $31900 (including DEST?). thanks
You would think that if navigation systems are such a hot item that everyone wants, that would also carry over when you sell or trade or sell the vehicle down the road, but that doesn't seem to be true.
Navigation costs $2000 plus the discount you lose that you would have had if you had purchased a vehicle without it. On top of that it doesn't add much to the potential resale value of the car 3 or 4 years down the road.
If you plan to keep the car for more than 5 years or so, at some point, Acura will stop creating updated map DVDs for the older systems and the system will become less and less useful the older it gets as the maps and Points Of Interest databases get further and further out of date.
And, yeah, you're unlikely to fully recover your 2,000 investment at trade in/sale time. So what? It is a lux item, not an investment. The Nav system is not cost effective. But, it is a lot of fun, and very useful. I don't regret having it and would definitely buy it again.
I have to qualify that by saying I live in a big, sprawling metro area (Los Angeles) and I haven't lived her that long so I don't know the streets. For me, the Nav is incredibly helpful. YMMV.
Just my thoughts....
The leasing companies have different rates for "With Navigation" and "Without Navigation" to account for this.
Look up book value of a 2000 TL with an without navi and you will see the navi only adds about $500 to the resale compared to the $2000 it cost new. That's a 75% loss in value, where the car as a whole lost less than 50% of it's retail value.
Since the dealers can gouge on the price and not discount when the car is new, the attraction of the navigation system is only strong for the new car buyers.
Used car values show that used cars buyers are not willing to pay much of a premium to get the navigation system.
If you only get $500 of the $2000 cost of the option back at resale time, plus you lose a $800 discount from the MSRP you would have been able to get on a TL without navi, the navigation system really cost you $2300.
There is absolutely no guarantee that there will be updated DVDs available for any length of time after the hardware in your car stops being manufactured and your warranty has expired. I am sure Alpine is more interested in developing new generations of the system than supporting discontinued models.
6 years from now DVD might not even be the media the maps are saved on.
Cars are a lousy investment anyway, but we buy nice cars because it gives us pleasure. Someone could make the argument that we should all buy Hondas because they're less expensive and just as reliable and are a better investment.
We did a major home renovation and people asked us if we thought it was a good investment. The enjoyment we'll get for years outweighs any expense we made.
The navigaton system only costs $25 a month if you keep the car for 5 years. If you feel you'll get that much enjoyment out of it then go for it!
so, anyway, i went to test drive last night with my wife in tow. I didn't look around the lot cause it was a bit chilly, but I take it they had alot in stock because I asked for a 6-speed and they had to go check the inventory sheet (i would think having just a few TLs would mean you'd know offhand what you had).
WE both really liked the car. The salesman also apparently hadn't been in the 6-speed before. I scared the heck out of him and he was loving it. After we got back he even went to another salesman to say "have you been in the 6-speed yet??!"
i was very impressed with how this car feels much lighter and more nimble than the weight would indicate. In comparison, its 200 pounds heavier than my current volvo yet feels 200 pounds lighter in the turns. And it REALLy holds the road well and feels planted.
I'm not ready to take the plunge just yet. If I do, I definitely plan on a longer test drive with more twists and turns to make sure my first impressions are accurate.
to all those who have one already, I think its a great choice. The only car that I will probably want to compare directly to this is going to be the '05 S40, but I might not be able to keep myself away from a new TL long enough for the new s40 to arrive. We'll see.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That said, out here in Los Angeles, I see little need for an update. The disc is very current for my area and I will probably not buy the upgrades that are released for several years.
Besides, I'm willing to be that most visitors to this site will not keep their cars for 8 or 9 years.
About $, I basically agree that you are not going to recoup your $2000 investment at trade-in time. If you are viewing the NAV as a cost-effective purchase, you are probably not going to be satisfied. I bought it because it enchances my enjoyment of my vehicle. I don't expect to get my money back at the end of the day.
Final point: out here in LA, it is somewhat harder to sell some Acuras used (like the MDX) WITHOUT NAV. There is a high demand for Nav on vehicles here.
Does anyone know what the date of the latest nav update DVD is for a 1999 TL or were the 1999s on a hard drive or CD? Is the navigation system DVD in the earliest DVD systems compatible with the current system or even the system that was in the 2003 TLs?
There are many rapidly growing communities with many new streets and street changes every year, plus many new businesses and points of interests going and coming. Even a 1 year old DVD won't be very useful in new and growing suburbs. A 2 or 3 year old DVD will be totally useless in many areas.
Back to paper maps and a local phone book at that point.
It would interesting to see if Alpine makes updated DVDs available for the older generations of their Honda nav systems once Honda has all the vehicles converted over to the new generation of the nav.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
Places like the suburbs outside of Las Vegas, Sacramento and even in San Bernadino county outside LA are still rapidly growing, so it is important to have up to date maps in places like that. It isn't just about streets. There will be plenty of new gas stations, restaurants and ATM machines that will not show up in an out of date DVD in growing communities. You might input the "Nearest Chinese Restaurant" and have it take you to a boarded up building that has been closed for years or is now the location a Starbucks and Jamba Juice even if you only drive in older, established neighborhoods.
Now, if you live in some part of the states where new neighborhoods spring up every day, that might be different. But, in that case, Nav is probably not a smart purchase. And, besides, even if some streets are not in your system, the vast majority of streets and addresses have been around for a while and will be on your DVD. I'm not saying that coverage will be 100%, but the DVD will still contain useful information for a long time to come.
As I've said before, YMMV. You may find that the lack of updates is a big issue for you. But, I seriously doubt this is going to be a major shortcoming for most drivers. Most drivers are likely to find that the database is fairly current, and updates should be available for a while.
If you want information on the availiability of updates for past models, I suggest you visit Alpine's website.
As for used car values, It is really hard to say. I had a friend with a MDX who had a bit of trouble selling it (although he eventually got a good price for it). People kept calling and asking if it had NAV.
But, again, don't buy the NAV as an investment. You are not likely to get your money back at the end of the day. It is strictly a frill - something you buy to enhance the enjoyment of your vehicle.
I had intended only to find the car, and have the staff at Sierra Acura (where we bought our TSX) swap for it. However the staff at 101 were so nice and spent so much time with us that I decided to make an offer. I was fully prepared with the real costs and my lease calculator in my PDA. I told the salesman I wanted $1,000 off, with the add-ons for free. He was gone a long time, and we really expected the usual hassle, but they took it! NO painful negotiating! The salesman told me that this is the ONLY one that they had ever discounted $1000. I got exactly as I had calculated, within a couple of dollars, and the car is just fabulous. By the time I got it home, I had forgotten all about my Solara, and was lovin' the quartz interior. Overall an A+ experience. I think I want to sleep in it tonight!
If you want my superb salesman's name, email me. They had a surprising stock, and even some TSXs. If you are anywhere in the L.A. area, Acura 101 is worth a visit.
Does the TL come with retractable outside mirrors, daytime running lights, and/or an electronic compass (if you don't have NAV)? Personally, I would love a foldable backseat to increase trunk space. But I guess Acura thinks the feature is not fit for an entry-level lux car.
camiro: the link doesn't work. Would you please check it.
I read the same thing about DVD movies playing when car was in park. It was properly an inaccurate comment made by a reviewer.
I didn't have the best buying experience, so I'd rather not give them free advertising. But since I live in SF, your choices of dealerships is fairly limited . . .
BTW, the rapid depreciation of computers haven't stopped me from buying them.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm gettting a 2004 TL next month and with out a doubt i will be filling it up with 91 octane but do u guys who know about Arco ....what do u guys think of using Arco gas to save some $$$ since the price of gas is high. I wanna keep my new TL in top shape but i'm not into paying more for something that is essentially the same.
Your advice would be much appreciated.....thanx.
I did NOT get the navi. First, I seldom drive places where I dont' know where I'm going, and a Thomas guide works well for me.
Second, the cost still bothers me a bit.
Third, I like having DIRECT access to the Audio and other controls without having to select a screen on the Navi. When they keep them separate, I will consider it.
If I find a REALLY start to need the nav assistance, I will buy the new Garmin Palm PDA with full navi built in, including voice prompts, etc. Maybe on the next one!
DVD-A(udio) is a GENERIC format for putting audio on DVDs instead of video, or other data. A DVD can hold about 7 times the information of a CD. This extra space can be used to make long-playing stereo audio discs with about 6 hour's playing time, or it can be used to hold more tracks of information for each song for true surround sound.
DTS is a SPECIFIC method of making DVD-As. DTS has their own proprietary encoding method to provide 5 discrete, full-range audio channels PLUS a subwoofer channel, called 5.1 audio. DTS encoded DVDAs require a DTS decoder. DTS is pushing this really hard, and will become the defacto standard for 5.1 DVDAs.