I wish it was only a $2K difference. When I purchased (11/30) Nav units were (and still seem to be) discounted much more than non/nav units so it was more like a $3.5K difference. I couldn't justify that kind of cash but if it had been only $2K I would have been on fence and may have sprung for it, just to complete the interior. After owning a non nav unit for 1.5 months now it does seem like the screen size is overkill for what it displays. While I don't think it looks terrible it does have a "not originally designed for this" feel. Now the rest of the interior is just great and I love the ride!
My wife is in sales and uses the NAV every day to find places she would otherwise spend a great deal of time getting to or maybe never find. How much is that worth ? It's worth a lot if you start looking at time versus money. The NAV is a $2K upgrade. You can't say it costs more because non NAV's are being discounted. As far as the NAV screen being too large...not for me who traded a 2000TL with a much smaller NAV screen and has such lousy eyes he couldn't see the little screen. The NAV is a hot ticket item on the new TL and the demand for NAV TL's seems to bear that out. I love the new NAV and I love my ( or should I say my wife's ) new TL. I look at the non NAV TL's and think just the opposite...it looks like something is missing and there are fill in's on the dash. To each their own.
My gas light warning came on yesterday for the first time. I filled up the car and put in 12.8 gallons of gas. I think the TL holds about 17 gallons? Is this warning supposed to come on this early? usually it is when there are about 2-2.5 gallons left...thanks
I ignore the TL's "early warning" gas light because the new model has a trip computer which allows me to know precisely how much gas is left in the tank. There are two measures that the trip computer displays that allow me to calculate this: (1) the MPG and (2) total distance traveled.
For example, if trip computer reports that my mileage has been 19 mpg so far and it also shows that I've traveled 260 miles, I know I still have a ton of gas because it would take 323 miles to exhaust the full 17 gallon tank at this mpg. Of course, the computer is saying that "Miles to empty = 0" already, but I know I still have more than 3 gallons of gas left.
I try to never go below 1 gallon in the tank though.
I'm investigating another way of getting Bluetooth without giving up the the great AT&T TDMA coverage: the Sony-Ericsson T62U TDMA/GSM/Analog GAIT phone. These have an optional Bluetooth attachment (DBA-10) that may make it compatible with the TL. I'll report on whether I got them to pair.
And approaching $0.79 now, who would have anticipated such an significant increase in less than a year? I know where my next vacation is going to be!! It would be very nice of Acura to drop the MSRP or put some extra incentives out there but in all likelihood they are hedging the foreign exchange exposure and are locked in to a fixed exchange rate for the upcoming year. If the dollar continues to rise or at least hold it's own they may have some more room to move on next year's pricing and hopefully the competitive nature of the auto industry will continue to put downward pressure on pricing. But then again demand appears to be strong for the TL. Or maybe they'll take the extra margin and offer the Cdn market a few more exterior and interior colour choices...:)
dulnev, the only AT&T phones that are certified compatible with the Acura Handsfreelink system are the Sony-Ericsson T616, and the Siemens S56. Nothing else is guaranteed to work, even though it may be Bluetooth enabled, so you'll be on your own if you don't go with one of these 2.
mdhauke - GSM is a standard for way the digital information is packaged and sent. The common standards are TDMA, CDMA and GSM. The are not compatible with each other. GSM is the prevailing standard throughout most of the world, and is now being more used in the USA.
I guess this is just another form of "what goes around comes around". For years Honda was subsidizing the Canadian market. I guess we should begrudge them for making some extra profit now!
Actually, the only thing that should matter in Canada is the value of the CDN$ relative to the yen. What difference does the relative value to the dollar make?
I had my new FALKEN ZIEX ZE 512 installed on Saturday and had a chance to test them a bit yesterday. I paid $384 delivered for 4 tires and had them installed for $9 per tire at Costco. Total cost: $420 or about half or less of what Pilot A/S costs.
For those of you who are concerned about vibrations, I never had any with EL42s, just terrible flatspotting and bad wet/snow performance.
I'm in Fairfax County, Virginia and had to go to downtown DC for a conference yesterday. I have NOT yet had a chance to drive these in wet or snow. I will post another report, when I do.
Here are the first impressions:
1. Flat Spotting
What flatspotting? The FALKENs eliminated this problem completelly. We had an overnight temperature of 6 degrees Farenheit overnight from Saturday to Sunday and I left home when it was still just 8 degrees. No flatspotting. Same this morning (although it was considerably warmer - 26 degrees).
2. Noise and ride comfort
This one is ambiguous. I never noticed any excessive noise with EL42s so I wasn't looking for any improvements in this category. And EL42s were reasonably comfortable as far as absorbing minor bumps.
The FALKENS are definitelly a bit quieter on good and Ok surfaces. I took George Washington Parkway into the city (for those in DC area) it it was a super-quiet experience.
BUT, I think the noise from significant road imperfections like cement joints, small potholes, etc. is somewhat increased over the EL42s. Same goies for ride comfort: I can feel road imperfections more than I did with EL42s. DC roads are very bad and it was a jarring experience. The problem is that I never took the car with EL42s into the city; and the roads in Fairfax County are very good. So I can't say for sure how much of the jars is attributable to the tires and how much to the car's suspension.
Noise and ride comfort on average quality of surfaces (I'd classify about 70-80% of surfaces in this category in Fairfax county), such as concrete or rough asphalt pavement, feel exactly the same as EL42s.
3. Dry handling
The dry handling is excellent! Not that EL42s was bad. I can feel at least a small improvement in this category. There are couple turns on my way to work that I take very fast every single time and EL42s in the back would always give up grip a little. The FALKENS stuck to the asphalt better.
4. Other benefits
There are at least two other benefits of the FALKENs:
(1) They have a "rim protection ridge" which is supposed to offer some protection from scratching wheels on curbs. Unfortunatelly, I got to test this feature this morning when parking in the office. I have a problem parking my cars without scratching the front right wheel. I scratch the crap out of that wheel on my 2003 TL-S in the 12 months I owned it.
The ridge did its job this morning and I didn't scratch the wheel I hit (slightly) the curb. I hope it will make a big difference in the long run.
(2) These tires look great! Just like the sports sedan's tires are supposed to look, unlike the EL42s.
All in all, I'm very happy with my decision so far. The total lack of flatspotting greatly outweighs the slight increase in bad-surface noise and comfort since I drive on excellent roads 95% of the time. And when I'm on great surface, these tires are as quiet as they come.
I know that T62u is not "certified" with TL, but I'm willing to take my chances. If it works, I'm likelly to be the happiest man alive. If it doesn't, I'll know it the first day and will simply cancel the service and return the phone to AT&T within the 30-day cancellation window.
The DBA-10 Bluetooth adapter for the phone will cost me roughly $25 on E-bay and I'm sure I'd be able to sell it for about the same, if I have to return the phone.
So all-in-all, it's very little hassle and money to try. By the way, the T62u is listed as a TL-compatible phone in one post on another TL discussion board, so the chances that it would work might be a bit better than what you think. Right now I'd put the chance that it will work at about 20%, which is a high enough number for me.
Hope it works, dulnev. Here's the page that gives the Handsfreelink info. If you click on the picture of the phone, it will give you a chart of all the certified compatible phones. You can also find "pairing" instructions for each phone on this page.
Not yet... If you remember, camera phones came out last year and it took Verizon about 6 months to finally bring one out. I'm gonna take a guess and say sometime this summer one MIGHT be available. But to be sure, e-mail VZW on their website and complain about one not being available.
I also own a 2000 Honda Accord EX V6. I just put Falcon's on this car since I needed tires. I agree with a lot of what you said. Curious, why not the Continental tire? The reviews read real well.
The Continentals ContiExtremeContact were the first runner up. In the end it was two things tilting the scales towards Falkens: (1) top rating by CR, whose opinions on most things I respect very much and (2) 30% lower price.
I did however realize AFTER ordering the tires that CR rated somewhat different ones: same model, but H rated, not W rated. There could be quite a significant difference between the same tire in such different speed ratings.
A friend of mine bought a Z 4 and one key issue was that it held two sets of golf clubs in the trunk. Will the TL and G35 hold four sets of golf clubs in the trunk ?
You're right it could potentially have more to do with the value of the Yen to the Cdn$ but it all depends on how Canada rolls up under Honda Corp. It's likely a three way relationship as the TL is made in the US, a large part of the cost base will be in US$ while revenue for sales in Cda will be in Cdn$. (Much like pro sports teams who are based in Cda, that has not been a very good thing over the last several years with the loonie dropping steadily until recently....). At the end of the day however results get rolled up under "North America" for Honda and translated back to Yen. I don't particularly think there would be much impact on price regardless since the TL appears to be well priced in the category and demand has been strong, but it is always fun to speculate. I would just like to see Anthracite be available in automatic and have some more interior colour options across the line.
raher: All I was stating is that the price difference between Nav/NonNav was more than $2K because of discounting when I purchased. I think it's a fair assessment to say that if you can't actually buy a NAV car for only 2K more than NonNav then it’s going to cost you more than 2K. This will change with time but wasn't the case when I purchased and still seems to be the case in many areas. Now if you want to pay MSRP for either than I guess your right. I do agree with you that Acura could have done a much better job with the display on the non nav cars. Whatever the costs are I’m not questioning anyone’s decision, as you said To each their own.
GSM and Bluetooth are not mutual items. Sprint has a Bluetooth phone available and their network is CDMA. Cingular and AT&T both have Bluetooth phones that are TDMA.
Verizon is just waiting to see how things pan out. They don't have to be the first to do anything. VZW's network is #1 in the nation and has the best customer service (according to JD Power and Consumer Reports) among cell phone providers.
As for tires, on another website some TL owners that have the ContiExtremes are having the flatspotting issue. So, make sure to check the composition of the belts.
Now that you mentioned it, if they were to offer anthracite with a light grey interior with the auto w/Nav, I would be in 7th heaven. As it stands now, there isn't really a colour combo that I'm crazy about. However, more than likely I will settle for the Desert Mist with Parchment. The WDP with parchment actually is more eye-catching. Looked at up close, the WDP is a very attractive hue, but from a distance it looks too blindingly white. And white has a similar problem as black in that it looks crappy when it's dirty.
Is there a consensus yet on which replacement tires are best for northern climates with significant snowfall? Comparatively, we spend very little time driving on snow covered roads as they are cleared pretty quickly, but those few hours every year is when you really need confidence in the road handling ability of your tires. It's just that we don't want to give up performance on dry and wet roads for the privilege.
Lots of folks seem to favour the Turanza LSZs, which have a good snow rating, but there's also been lots of talk of flatspotting in cold weather.
The ContiExtreme Contacts have a better snow rating than the LSZs, but a poorer traction rating in every other condition. Is the trade-off worth the extra snow traction and the lower price?
The Pirelli P Zero Neros are rated almost identically to the LSZs, but at a lower cost. Does anyone have any experience with these on their TL?
Finally, the Falkens are being talked up a lot, but I haven't heard anything about their suitability for winter conditions and they're not listed on the Tire Rack site. Does anyone have any information on this?
First time in quite a while I've seen anyone mention the Desert Mist, which is also my choice. It combines a number of positive features: - doesn't show the dirt or chips like dark colours - gives the TL a classy look while retaining the sporty profile - not too popular, so you don't see "your car" everywhere you go which is the case with the previous generation TL in silver - might even be better for bargaining as it's not a popular choice and the dealer wants to move them (I remember this was the case with blue Subaru SVXs. Dealers discounted them because nobody wanted that colour.)
I'm in NH/VT area and we see plenty of snow. i have had the contiextremes on for the past month. they handle very well on snow, leaps and bounds over the oems. With regards to flatspotting - can't really say as i haven't driven on snow-free roads in a month. I can't tell b/c when tires come into contact with snow when you first pull out, there's plenty of noise regardless of what tires you have on. Nevertheless, once out of my driveway and onto the roads, there is no noise or vibration.
I frankly think you can't go wrong with any of those tires you mentioned. however, the contis are one of the more reasonably priced and they last a long time (i used to have contis on my old maxima and they went 3 years with plenty of tread to spare).
In any case, given the weather is wet/snow 7-8 months out of the year, snow traction is of my primary concern. The Turanza EL-42 oems have left such a bad taste in my mouth (slipping and sliding the 1st week i had the car); given the choice, of which there's plenty, i would NEVER buy a tire from a company that could manufacture such crappy all-seasons and actually price them for at a premium.
I went on 1010tire.com and found the Falken has an overall rating of 4.2 with a 3.8 snow rating. The Turanza LS-V seemed to be a high rated tire, 4.2 and 3.4 snow. They appear not to carry the Continental Extreme.
I too have the conti extremes (on my A4) and don't have many complaints. They are significantly better in the snow than the OEM all season performance tires that I replaced and they seem to also perform well on dry and wet surfaces. No complaints on flatspotting for me whatsoever as I have read some people report. They do however tend to feel like the have a soft sidewall when pushing them in the corners which I also read some reports on. They completely hold however and don't let go, but it is an uneasy feeling somewhat. Back to snow performance - for me they give me what I need living in Toronto where the snowfall is not extreme....but they are definitely not snow tires and you still need to be cautious with stopping distances etc. But I don't think that I will ever get stuck in the snow with these tires (and the quattro) as I did with the old Dunlop's. It is great to see that the tire mfg's however have built in some snow capabilities into the Ultra High performance all-season tire category.
a lot of new TL owners are opting to spend another $800 and get Michelin Pilot tires instead. They are hoping that Acura will eventually reimburse them, but in the mean time the vibrations on the oem tires are horrible.
Try to negoiate with the dealer BEFORE you take delivery on the tires.
If you can wait couple of days, I should be able to provide a review of snow performance of my new Falken ZIEX 512. There's supposed to be a snow storm hitting DC area this Thursday. I'm kind of looking forward to it ;-)
Some time ago there was some talk about a vibration coming from the steering area. I have heard a vibration 3 or 4 times. Took to dealer but thay could not find anything because it was not making a noise. Anybody remember the cause of vibration or experienced the same vibration?
Did 2000 and 2001 RL share the same transmission as TLs then? There were transmission issues with 2000+ TLs and a few other models from Honda. Was RL also one of them?
Were there transmission issues reported on 2000 RLs?
I would classify autostick, manumatics, sequential sport shifts, etc, etc, as one of the most overrated features in a car -- along with sunroofs. You play around with them a bit when you first got the car. Then the novelty wears off, and you hardly ever use the thing again.
Comments
After owning a non nav unit for 1.5 months now it does seem like the screen size is overkill for what it displays. While I don't think it looks terrible it does have a "not originally designed for this" feel. Now the rest of the interior is just great and I love the ride!
04/5AT Anthracite/Quartz/Non Nav
As far as the NAV screen being too large...not for me who traded a 2000TL with a much smaller NAV screen and has such lousy eyes he couldn't see the little screen. The NAV is a hot ticket item on the new TL and the demand for NAV TL's seems to bear that out. I love the new NAV and I love my ( or should I say my wife's ) new TL.
I look at the non NAV TL's and think just the opposite...it looks like something is missing and there are fill in's on the dash.
To each their own.
(1) the MPG and (2) total distance traveled.
For example, if trip computer reports that my mileage has been 19 mpg so far and it also shows that I've traveled 260 miles, I know I still have a ton of gas because it would take 323 miles to exhaust the full 17 gallon tank at this mpg. Of course, the computer is saying that "Miles to empty = 0" already, but I know I still have more than 3 gallons of gas left.
I try to never go below 1 gallon in the tank though.
regards,
kyfdx
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For those of you who are concerned about vibrations, I never had any with EL42s, just terrible flatspotting and bad wet/snow performance.
I'm in Fairfax County, Virginia and had to go to downtown DC for a conference yesterday. I have NOT yet had a chance to drive these in wet or snow. I will post another report, when I do.
Here are the first impressions:
1. Flat Spotting
What flatspotting? The FALKENs eliminated this problem completelly. We had an overnight temperature of 6 degrees Farenheit overnight from Saturday to Sunday and I left home when it was still just 8 degrees. No flatspotting. Same this morning (although it was considerably warmer - 26 degrees).
2. Noise and ride comfort
This one is ambiguous. I never noticed any excessive noise with EL42s so I wasn't looking for any improvements in this category. And EL42s were reasonably comfortable as far as absorbing minor bumps.
The FALKENS are definitelly a bit quieter on good and Ok surfaces. I took George Washington Parkway into the city (for those in DC area) it it was a super-quiet experience.
BUT, I think the noise from significant road imperfections like cement joints, small potholes, etc. is somewhat increased over the EL42s. Same goies for ride comfort: I can feel road imperfections more than I did with EL42s. DC roads are very bad and it was a jarring experience. The problem is that I never took the car with EL42s into the city; and the roads in Fairfax County are very good. So I can't say for sure how much of the jars is attributable to the tires and how much to the car's suspension.
Noise and ride comfort on average quality of surfaces (I'd classify about 70-80% of surfaces in this category in Fairfax county), such as concrete or rough asphalt pavement, feel exactly the same as EL42s.
3. Dry handling
The dry handling is excellent! Not that EL42s was bad. I can feel at least a small improvement in this category. There are couple turns on my way to work that I take very fast every single time and EL42s in the back would always give up grip a little. The FALKENS stuck to the asphalt better.
4. Other benefits
There are at least two other benefits of the FALKENs:
(1) They have a "rim protection ridge" which is supposed to offer some protection from scratching wheels on curbs. Unfortunatelly, I got to test this feature this morning when parking in the office. I have a problem parking my cars without scratching the front right wheel. I scratch the crap out of that wheel on my 2003 TL-S in the 12 months I owned it.
The ridge did its job this morning and I didn't scratch the wheel I hit (slightly) the curb. I hope it will make a big difference in the long run.
(2) These tires look great! Just like the sports sedan's tires are supposed to look, unlike the EL42s.
All in all, I'm very happy with my decision so far. The total lack of flatspotting greatly outweighs the slight increase in bad-surface noise and comfort since I drive on excellent roads 95% of the time. And when I'm on great surface, these tires are as quiet as they come.
The DBA-10 Bluetooth adapter for the phone will cost me roughly $25 on E-bay and I'm sure I'd be able to sell it for about the same, if I have to return the phone.
So all-in-all, it's very little hassle and money to try. By the way, the T62u is listed as a TL-compatible phone in one post on another TL discussion board, so the chances that it would work might be a bit better than what you think. Right now I'd put the chance that it will work at about 20%, which is a high enough number for me.
I just checked 3 dealerships in Alabama...Huntsville, Birmingham, & Montgomery.
None of these dealerships had any TLs with the Nav system.
Jerry Damson in Huntsville usually keeps 12 - 15 cars, but none with the Nav (with the exception of the demo car which is not for sale).
King Acura in Birmingham had about the same number but again the only one with a Nav was the demo.
Dealership in Montgomery had about the same number, again no nav system (unless it was the one in the show room).
I would prefer not to have to order one...does that mean I will have to wait for an 05?
Has anyone heard anything about ACURA increasing production of TLs with the NAV?
Thanks.
Just kidding . . .
Cheers,
- Ray
Who has parked (cars) in some absolutely awful places . . .
Seriously, dulnev, I thought Acura had dealt with that problem by putting narrower rims on the TL-S compared to the CL-S?
The Falkens sound fabulous, and I am sure that I will try them when the Bridgestones get thin.
I did however realize AFTER ordering the tires that CR rated somewhat different ones: same model, but H rated, not W rated. There could be quite a significant difference between the same tire in such different speed ratings.
All I was stating is that the price difference between Nav/NonNav was more than $2K because of discounting when I purchased. I think it's a fair assessment to say that if you can't actually buy a NAV car for only 2K more than NonNav then it’s going to cost you more than 2K. This will change with time but wasn't the case when I purchased and still seems to be the case in many areas. Now if you want to pay MSRP for either than I guess your right.
I do agree with you that Acura could have done a much better job with the display on the non nav cars. Whatever the costs are I’m not questioning anyone’s decision, as you said To each their own.
Verizon is just waiting to see how things pan out. They don't have to be the first to do anything. VZW's network is #1 in the nation and has the best customer service (according to JD Power and Consumer Reports) among cell phone providers.
As for tires, on another website some TL owners that have the ContiExtremes are having the flatspotting issue. So, make sure to check the composition of the belts.
Lots of folks seem to favour the Turanza LSZs, which have a good snow rating, but there's also been lots of talk of flatspotting in cold weather.
The ContiExtreme Contacts have a better snow rating than the LSZs, but a poorer traction rating in every other condition. Is the trade-off worth the extra snow traction and the lower price?
The Pirelli P Zero Neros are rated almost identically to the LSZs, but at a lower cost. Does anyone have any experience with these on their TL?
Finally, the Falkens are being talked up a lot, but I haven't heard anything about their suitability for winter conditions and they're not listed on the Tire Rack site. Does anyone have any information on this?
- doesn't show the dirt or chips like dark colours
- gives the TL a classy look while retaining the sporty profile
- not too popular, so you don't see "your car" everywhere you go which is the case with the previous generation TL in silver
- might even be better for bargaining as it's not a popular choice and the dealer wants to move them (I remember this was the case with blue Subaru SVXs. Dealers discounted them because nobody wanted that colour.)
I frankly think you can't go wrong with any of those tires you mentioned. however, the contis are one of the more reasonably priced and they last a long time (i used to have contis on my old maxima and they went 3 years with plenty of tread to spare).
In any case, given the weather is wet/snow 7-8 months out of the year, snow traction is of my primary concern. The Turanza EL-42 oems have left such a bad taste in my mouth (slipping and sliding the 1st week i had the car); given the choice, of which there's plenty, i would NEVER buy a tire from a company that could manufacture such crappy all-seasons and actually price them for at a premium.
Try to negoiate with the dealer BEFORE you take delivery on the tires.
Did 2000 and 2001 RL share the same transmission as TLs then? There were transmission issues with 2000+ TLs and a few other models from Honda. Was RL also one of them?
Were there transmission issues reported on 2000 RLs?
regards,
kyfdx
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