Older Honda Accords

spidermonkey

You need to take into account that Saturn uses plastic body panels. These panels expand and contract with heat more than metal panels, so the panel gaps on all Saturns are larger than other cars by design.

ickes -- Are you sure that BMW wasn't included in that ranking? Are they considered too small? VW was included and was tied for 6th with Nissan. Ford was actually ranked higher at 5th place.

Also Honda did make one of the largest gains in quality according to the survey despite already being near the top. I'll try and find the link to the article I read and post it.

ickes_mobile

There were two lists - one that included small makers such as BMW and one that didn't. GM likes to quote the list without the small makers as it moves them up to 3rd...

03accordman

Cmon guys, GM getting quality up? With what? Cavaliers? Malibus? Sunfires? These cars have been around for so long that you would expect any car company to sort out major quality issues in the long time span they have been enjoying. Have you looked inside any of the cars that GM makes? The gaps are so large that you could have people living there. Maybe you are referring to trucks, coz' GM now esentially is a truck manufacturer (though Bob Lutz is trying to change, but don't expect any changes before 2004). Did you read the Motor Trend long term test on the new Trailblazer? The guys were so fed up of having to go to the dealer every other day that they just wanted to leave it there. Also, if you look at the back end ot the "high quality" "New" Trailblazer, please do look at where the tailgate meets the bumper, and you will be able to see bumper bolts due to the huge gap there.

I think all of us have been spoiled by Honda/Toyota quality and any aberrations in quality make us see red. I have just bought a 2003 Accord, and yes, I do have some questions, but not to the extent that I would start questioning Honda Quality. And FYI, I Don't work for Honda or any affiliates, just a satisfied Honda customer

ickes_mobile

was cited for below average reliability by the latest CR. I don't think anyone expects a similar first year result from the Pilot.

mdx_kid

Ok Guys

Last weekend sold my old loyal and best Lumina and went on a hunt for a new one. Drove Camry, Altima, Passat and Accord (quiet a busy weekend).

1. First off Passat: Rated very high by edmunds. Don't understand why; as for the ride not in Family Sedan class (drove 1.8T ; V6 was out of price range). Interior material very nice. Handles very well due to stiff suspension. Could use more soundproofing to give the car a bit refined and luxurious feel. Had I been looking for a sporty sedan I would have gotten it in a flash but then in that price range you have other cars which can handel much better. Very very pricy (V6).
2. Second up was Altima (3.5 SE): Nice engine but talk about cheap plastic and bad back seat. Front is comfortable but in the back you can feel everything in the wheel wells and the road. Not very high quality stuff but nice acceleration. It's not that Nissan don't have good cars, Maxima with same engine is totally different and much nicer interior. Ride in Maxima's back seat is again bad due to different suspension setup in the back but very nice interior. Font cup holders are not very good and why would you design that center armrest so far back and to top it all the salesman asked for MSRP and was doing a favor to come down couple of hundred bucks and I told him that this car has been out there for a year now but he was selling me that as if I am buying a NASA ticket to MARS.
3. Camry: They don't make this car for younger crowd. Very nice smooth car but I felt like I aged 15 years in a flash while driving that car. Excellent four cylinder. V6 is not great but there are rumors about a new stronger engine. The problem IMHO is it was way too much isolated from the road and I would love that but not at this point and time in my life. The interior is nice and roomy.
4. Finally it was Accord's turn and I loved the interior; I won't say the same thing about exterior but that eventually grows on you and my wife said that 99% of time we will be inside and who cares what's outside. Don't agree but you have to LISTEN. Four cylinder could use more refinement as the Camry’s engine which has good torque at the lower range and with VTEC you have to rev it get acceleration quickly. When you drive it you can tell it's a four cylinder which is
   not the case with Camry. V6 is amazing and the transmission is very very nice. I would say out of the four this was the best with Camry, Passat and Altima in that order after accord. Ride is not stiff like passat or isolated like camry but in-between Altima and Camry. Just right for our taste. Made an offer and got a good deal on EX V6($32,300 CDN). Got the Graphite pearl and looks like this color is difficult to find. Now to things don't like
   • Passenger side side view mirror doesn't adjust using the remote
   • Outside temp gauge is off by 4 degrees
   • Could have used some sound dampening material to isolate the engine vibrations when stopped at red light.
   But overall very nice car and for the money best value. Seats are the best feature of the car. You sit in them and they hug you. Best seats even better that our MDX which are a bit stiffer than these seats. Also you have to really watch the Tach or end up getting the tickets. Very nice wipers as they cover almost entire wind shield on driver's side. Back seat is very cofortable.

   That was a busy weekend but well worth it now after 300KM on the odo.

dindak

03accordman : Just under 1/2 of GM production is still cars. They still sell more cars than anyone else. Don't think it's a "truck manufacturer". If you haven't noticed, 1/2 the market IS trucks these days.

robersmx : Like was said earlier, gaps are needed for the polymer panels to expand, it's not a flaw. GMs panels in general could be better fitted not doubt, but panels don't make the car more reliable. We had an Accord before and our current Alero is better. That said, it's not better than the new Accord but it also cost thousands less. Don't get me wrong I like Honda cars, I just don't think they are so much better as many people believe them to be.

ricsch

Has anyone found a hood shield for the new '03 Accord?

aming

Congrats on your new purchase. Great color choice as well. The price "$32,300 CDN" was before or after tax, pdi etc.?

The Pasenger side mirror should be adjustable. I've driven both the EX4 and EX V6 and adjusted both from the power switch.

Try and post a picture of the car in this forum.

Keep us posted...

03accordman

I know GM is the market leader in selling automobiles. Maybe you should notice the steady decline in the car marketshare that GM has, the marketshare they had a few years back and what they have now. Hope you know why GM hired Bob Lutz.

Regarding the other half ie trucks, just go to Motor Trend site and read about the Trailblazer(no polymer panels, but bigger gaps in the tailgate than a Vue)

Regarding the polymer panels at saturn, you are right, its not a flaw but a design aspect that takes into consideration expansion and contraction of the polymer. Having said that, the huge gaps do make an eyesore.

Also on the point that your Alero is more reliable than an Accord, well, to each his own. If you are happy with it then you are happy with it.

I would just say that pick a model from GM's line and compare it to a comparable Honda product and then think quality, You will get what I mean. By the way, do look at the trunk lid of your alero and note if it fits correct. If it does, you are one of a few lucky ones, not others who keep complaining about it on the message boards.

Regarding price, I bought an Accord LX 2003 for $18, 495 and I don't know what better one could do with an Alero, and I tell you, take a drive ina 4 cyl Accord (2003) you will see there is no comparison between the two cars. We all know that Oldsmobile is no more (has to be a compelling reason)

mdx_kid

Thanks aming. The price was $32300 which includes delivery + PDI + blk heater and GST and tiretax etc. on top.

Total it was $34898 as I got them to come down on the document fee from $299 to $195.

The side view mirror has some fault in the attached cable or something else. I am taking it back to the dealership on Monday.

brydymond

That seems quite well priced. I keep hearing that there is no dickering on price. That is huge if you got GST thrown in! The way I see it you got like $5,000 off. Where did you go?

Also, has anyone seen a sedan with 17" rims?

dindak

03accordman : Judging by your handle, one could assume you are very biased. I have had 2 hondas and 3 GMs in my car buying life so I have seen both sides. You can put down GM all you like (you obviously hate them), but the cars they make for the most part work just fine. FYI our Alero was C$21800 (approx U$14200), a comparable Accord was about C$25000 (approx U$16200). We also got 0.9% for 60 month and would have had 6.9% from Honda. Like I said, thousands of dollars (and for people on a budget, that is significant). Alero was tied for #1 in initial quality by JD Power so it clearly has quality. I know you will go on about re-sale, but given we tend to hold our cars for 7-8 years, it won't make much difference.

I know other people that live and die by Honda and that's fine. Just thought you should realize there are other cars out there that are good also. I like the Accord (especially the new one), but I simply don't think it's the best value right now.

bodydouble

I think mdx_kid got about $3500 off (out-the-door)which seems like a helluva deal for an '03. I haven't even factored in the block heater. How much is one of those things?

aming

brydymond: I think mdx_kid is saying that GST was on top of $32300.00. It might seem cheap but I think that mdx_kid didn't have to pay PST or forgot to mention it. That would have added approx. $2200.00.

Try this site.

http://cars4u.com

If you live in Ontario they give you a good deal (Only market they serve). They started off at about $1300 below MSRP and now are at $930.00 below MSRP.

dindak

Another good source for a quote is

http://www.autobytel.ca

We bought through them as the dealer we got gave us a price the local dealer would not even match.

1932caddy

Has anyone seen, used, owned the 03 Sat - Navigation system on the V6 EX Accord??? If so, please comment on it. Thanks

mdx_kid

OK Guys

Price including Delivery, PDI, Block Heater=$32300
PLUS GST+tire Tax+AIr Tax+Doc Fee (Final Price)= $34898

No PST in Alberta.

I tried all the dealerships in Edmonton. Only one of them was stuck on MSRP all others were ready to deal. We wanted the Graphite color and we wanted right away othewrwise they could have come down further and there was only one graphite pearl available for delivery in town so we took that. But I think the lowest they would have gone would be $32100 which is pretty good considering the Access Toyota price for Camry and the Nissan dealers who want MSRP for Altima after one year and Accord IMHO is any day better as for my needs than the other two.

03accordman

I am not a GM hater, just don't consider them a quality car manufacturer. Good for fleet sales due to the great discounts they give. Regarding 7-8 yrs, lets see how well the Alero holds over that span compared to my Accord. FYI, I also own a Nissan Altima, and have owned other brands too, so its not a case of being biased towards Honda.

bodydouble

mdx_kid is in our tax-haven province. No pst. By my calculation then, he got about $1200 off MSRP. Not bad considering it's a brand new model, plus the fact Honda dealers in Canada are working with a fairly thin profit margin.

pro_honda

Reading the posts on the Alero made me think of the conversation I had recently with a friend of mine. I asked him how he liked his Alero and he proceeded to tell me how much he disliked the car because of the many problems he has had with it. He said that his wife's car is a Hyundai and he claims that it drives better now than the day he bought it. He said he wouldn't hesitate to buy another Hyundai again.

That being said, I know that you can't judge GM's quality based on one bad Alero. On the flip side, my parent's owned a 1990 GMC Safari van and sold it with 425K KM's on the odometer (and still running quite well). These were not easy KM's either as the van was used to pull a 27 foot travel trailer quite frequently.

I'll try to find a link to an article I read recently that in so many words recommended FOR making a major repair on a 7-8 year old japanese car but AGAINST making that same repair on a 7-8 year old domestic car. That seems a little too black/white to me, but I guess I could see it if you're comparing say a Honda Civic to a Chevy Cavalier.

dindak

pro-honda : My mom has a 99 (first year) Alero and it's been virtually trouble free, One of the reasons we bought. Cavalier is a poor car, I know. Civic easily wins there though the Ecotec in the Cavalier this year is better.

03accordman : You are living in 1992. Quality of GM product has come up very fast and all of the rating organizations show this to be true. My mom's Alero has held up nicely and rattle free after 4 years, I see no reason for it not to go another 4+++.

bodydouble

In terms of refinement it was definitely a notch below Accord/Camry. The hood also didn't close properly because the edge OVERLAPPED the fender on one side! But mind you, it was a rental so....

dindak

bodydouble : Yup, a lot less $ and a little less refined but still good.

anonymousposts : Like I said, I keep cars 7-8 years. At that point resale isn't much of a factor. Also keep in mind heavy discouts = less resale. Pay less and get less when you sell, nothing new.

s852

The GPS Navigation is not available until January.
Is the XM radio available yet? Does anyone know how well integrated it is and how the antennas look?
Since the navigation is factory installed, it is probably safe to assume the antenna wil be completely hidden or very well integrated into the car. Is the dealer-installed XM antenna tacked on to the roof or hidden?

robertsmx

"You need to take into account that Saturn uses plastic body panels. These panels expand and contract with heat more than metal panels, so the panel gaps on all Saturns are larger than other cars by design."
I didn't know Vue has a plastic hood. Is the plastic that GM uses that different from plastic used in bumpers of most vehicles?

dindak
What is the difference between Grand AM and Alero? I always thought the two were identical cars, and felt like it driving them. The only difference is different fascia, no side cladding and different tail lamps.

dindak

Alero has a better warranty, 4 wheel discs with traction control and a window embeded antenna, GA does not. I think the rear discs are gone on the base model for 03 though. Interior is completely different but mechanically they both have the same engines and suspensions.

aming

My wife peeked over my shoulder while I was reading the latest Motor trend mag and got all excited when she saw the picture of the honda and mercedes from the side rear angle and asked "what car is that? Wow, That is a nice car." I thought she was probably talking about the merc but when I asked her which one, she promptly pointed out the Accord. Boy was I shocked. This lady has Expensive tastes and I definitely didn't expect this....

Yup! It's really nice...

pda97

"anonymousposts : Like I said, I keep cars 7-8 years. At that point resale isn't much of a factor. Also keep in mind heavy discouts = less resale. Pay less and get less when you sell, nothing new."

You're using too much of your brain. You won't last long in this forum

dindak

Sorry.

Back to the Accord.

spidermonkey

I believe the VUE's hood is metal, just the side panels are made of plastic. Still, the gaps where the metal meets the plastic panels are going to be larger than a metal panel to metal panel gap. I might just be misinterpretting your original statement about the headlamps.

Anyway, does anyone have any comments on the Accord's 5 speed automatic when hooked up with the 4-cylinder?

03accordman

Spidey, I have recently bought an 03 LX with auto. The five speed auto ie very smooth and you can hardly feel the shifts. The tranny is very unobtrusive and in the close to a thousand miles I have driven, I have really come to appreciate the 5 speed. I think Honda has gone a level up over its competitors by having the 5 speed in this car. On the fuel mileage side, in the three tankfulls I have done, I have got 29, 26, 26 mpg with about 60% highway driving. I am hoping this will improve since I am not using the AC it being winter here in NJ.

aming

Which dealership treated you well and which did you buy from? I live just down the "river" from you (Calgary) and wouldn't mind making the trip to Edmonton if the dealerships here didn't treat me right.

dindak:"other good source for a quote is" Thanks

deyounk

Has anyone seen an Accord with the 17 in wheels? Are they available yet?

bartalk2

I thought NAVI won't be available until after the first of the year. Not so?

anonymousposts

Jan. 03 before you can get navigation but maybe they changed their mind or maybe they got a case of the "underpromise/overdeliver" syndrome.

maxamillion1

I have also seen the front spoiler that is available for the sedan as well. The 17s look okay, they don't look much better than the 16s that area already on the Ex and V6 model sedans.

mica88

at www.collegehillshonda.com. Click on On-order List, under 03 Arriving Inventory. 2 of them appear to have November production dates, with one already reserved.

karl7777

Re; quality/reliability

I just picked up the CR New Car Preview 2003 magazine. Why isn't the Accord even recommended
anymore? It's not on the reliability lists and not even on the Overall Ratings list for family sedans (out of 22 cars!).

Or is it just that they haven't road tested it?

The Civic EX is still recommended.

thanks!

mdx_kid

I picked mine up from Yellowhead Honda. Talk to other two too Alberta Honda and Frontier Honda (they were down $700 from retail price right off the back) I was sure that if I wanted they could have easily gone to $1000-$1200. Don't waste your time on Millwoods Honda.

anonymousposts

that the Accord is too new. I subscribe to CR and haven't seen a test of the Accord yet.

bartalk2

Will probably appear in the January issue (my guess), which will be out early December. The review will almost certainly be positive because in their '03 New Car publication now on the newsstands they give a preview of their test results of the new Accord--very favorable--ride, handling, tranmission, etc.

cds12

Ive been looking for a used 99 or 00 Accord EX 4cyl auto with about 30k (give or take 6k). Prices in my area are about $15,500 (the local used car guy) to $17,500 (cetified car at local dealer).

Now I am considering a 03 Accord LX w/SRS 4cyl auto for $18,687 (assuming I can get on for invoice). The new LX has the features I require Keyless Entry & ABS. The things I be giving up by getting the 03 LX would be Alloys & Moonroof (these are nice but not nessessary). But I'd get a current body style for 4 or 5 years and 5sp auto transmission.

What car would you go with?
Are there any differences I am missing?

karl7777

cds12 - You might want to check out a 2003 DX auto. Less features/amenities but comes standard with ABS.

I've got a quote of $14,919 (final price - no additional fees) from a NH dealer. Are the missing features really worth $3768 to you?

good luck!

gschul6884

The reason the do not recomend it, they say, is that they're still testing it.

George S

apatia

I am the new owner of a 2001 Accord Coupe 5-speed. :-)

The transaction itself was drama-free. Transportation the problem. I rented a car from Enterprise to check out something (other than a car) in a city 250 miles away. While I was there, I visited a dealer on a whim and wound up buying a car. So, as you can see I had a problem - two cars, one body. Given that I had rented my car from a Enterprise, a national chain, the the dealership manager (who deals w/ Enterprise all the time) and I assumed that I could drop my car off at the Enterprise down the street (for a fee, of course). W.R.O.N.G. I was told by Enterprise that I was responsible for returning the car to the location it was rented from. A. I didn't know anybody in the city. B. When I rented the car, I stated that I would be the only driver. Therefore, I was forced to drive the rental back to the original rental location. Additionally, to get back to the dealership, I had to spend $100 to take 3 cabs, a greyhound bus and a commuter train - a seven hour journey. Plus, I then had to drive the car back afterwards.

To state the obvious, I am none too please with Enterprise. A one-way rental is not uncommon and doesn't seem unreasonable request (for a price). I've probably rented from Enterprise 20 times in the past to years. This is definately the last time.

On a separate note: I was driving my new car back last night. It was almost 8pm and I was bone tired after my journey. I'm on the interstate speeding along at 65 MPH (the speed limit) in the 2nd from the left (of 5 lanes) and suddenly there's this car in front of me that's not moving. I had to stomp on the brakes and swerve into another lane to avoid hitting that car, as did the car behind me.

WTH?? You just don't abandon a car in the middle of an interstate. Those jerks didn't even have their hazards on (though the headlights were on). I was so lucky that there wasn't a car in the lane beside me. I wouldn't have had time to stop.

Oh, while I'm talking about jerks and lights... About ten minutes after I swerved to avoid that car, I looked in my rear view mirror and saw two small yellow lights a foot or two behind my car. I thought to myself, "what could that be??". I didn't remember yellow lights on the back of my car. (And I was speeding down the highway at the time.) Ten seconds later, I figured out that I was being seriously tail-gated by some jerkoff that had two burned out headlights. It's was pitch-black outside, and I couldn't even see the car. All I could see with those two small yellow "parking lights" (as I think of them) was the barest outline of the car behind. After a few minutes, the jerk went around.

Altogether, this has not been the best weekend.

tgozdalski1

I am looking forward to purchase 03 accord dx. Right now we own 2000 accord lx 5 speed and after 3 years and 91,000 miles we did not have any problems with it. Any suggestions as to what I can expect to pay for 5 speed dx? Also Honda web site does not put dollar amount for a dealer installed a/c, why? The only feature that I would like to add to dx would be power locks, but for the difference in price between lx I can live without them. With abs, power windows, and cd player I think dx is excellent value.
Tom

bklynguy

With some non-Japanese vehicles, CR will list them as "promising" when they do their first review. Reliability can be a serious question based on past history with the brand.

When CR tested the new Camry & ES300, they recommended them right away. So if the Accord does well in their tests, almost a given, they will recommend the Accord.

I think CR wants to compare the new Mazda6 with the Accord, so when they purchase the 6 next month, they will complete testing of both models. We should see the reviews early next year ( same issue ).

bartalk2

CR does recommend new models. Especially for cars that have rock solid reliability in the past, they will say, "expected reliability--excellent" or "above average" or some such. etc.

bartalk2

Are the front seats in the coupe the same as in the sedan? Today I tried the seats in a coupe (sedan not available at the time), and they were magnificent--BMW-like. I don't remember having the same reaction to the seats in the sedan, which I test drove weeks ago, Maybe I've forgotten.

stevesingapore

I'm from the US but based in Singapore. I just cruised a whole lot full of 2003 Asia spec Honda Accord 4dr sedans in a variety of colors. IMO, the car is about as attractive as the new Camry, (slab sided, "massive", kind of "formal" looking, but not up to par with the Mazda 6, and definitely not "sporty". Still, it is way better looking than the new US spec Accord! I understand it will be sold in the US next year as the Acura TSX. May be worth the wait and the extra bucks.