Older Honda Accords

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Comments

  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I think they show a couple of pictures on the Honda website.
  • jvkalrajvkalra Member Posts: 98
    Accord 30058 - 1.5%
    Camry 32190 + 6.1%
    Altima 14777 + 3.9%

    The percentage changes above are in the daily sales rate (DSR) compared to Nov 2001, the way the auto industry tracks sales.

    This is the second month in a row that Accord sales are down compared to Camry. I'm not surprised. While I was expecting Honda to make the usual improvements for 2003 in NVH, power, and offer more features for less money,etc, I was disappointed with the fat, bloated exterior styling and the high cowl (very unlike a Honda).

    I think there's a lot of Honda owners like me who don't like the Accord becoming 'American' or 'European', whatever spin they want to put on it. Honda needs to look at what made the Accord popular in earlier years: sensible proportions with contemporary Japanese styling (while offering Honda refinement and the best value in the market).
  • slu3slu3 Member Posts: 10
    I'm not totally surprised. I think the last Accord addressed the major complaint from customers since Day One -- Larger Interior Size. Most people seemed to be very pleased with it. The '03 Accord does not offer any ground breaking improvements over the last Gen. At least, not something that an average customer would immediately leap into.
  • cho7819cho7819 Member Posts: 20
    Up here in Mass, Accord DX's are going for 11-12K USD. Im a poor student so this looks good to me. I want to know if the stock radio on the DX (yes, i know its a 2 speaker) is the same on the LX except for the # of speakers(i could add speakers?) and How hard is it to install aftermarket AC? Thanx
  • jvkalrajvkalra Member Posts: 98
    I agree with your comments that the 03 Accord doesn't offer any groundbreaking improvements over the previous generation. But I think Honda diminished the appeal of the 03 with the bloated look, while interior room remains about the same. 75% of Accord sales are to couples or singles, only 25% to families, so it's puzzling to me why Honda gave the 03 Accord the bulky, full size look.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    I agree. We bought an '02. And while the extra hp and the 5-speed auto are nice to have, so far we have absolutely no regrets about not waiting for the '03. The '02 fits our current needs and we actually prefer the view over the lower cowl.
  • bigzheng17bigzheng17 Member Posts: 81
    I guess most people are waiting for the price to go down a bit more, and let people who buy now find most bugs so Honda can fix them before they buy, like what i'm doing now.
  • ctlctl Member Posts: 129
    Price... carsdirect is selling 2003 Accord for around $500 UNDER the invoice in most of California now, tells something?

    I still cannot like it exterior style at all.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Member Posts: 326
    People are probably reading too much into Honda sales decline vs. Nov. '01. It's probably that production on the '03 isn't yet up to speed, and availability of the new ones is not equal to the availability of the previous model last year.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    Honda is well known for steep production ramps, I doubt that availability was a problem in November after 03 sales started in early September. For a newly redesigned model, the market reaction seems to be a collective yawn, especially if it's already selling at $500 below invoice (Altima is selling around invoice).

    In addition, I noticed that November sales of the Civic were actually lower than those of Corolla - don't recall that ever happening. My understanding is that the Civic has been selling below Honda's targets, the Accord is probably going to do the same based on early sales. I can't get used to the Accord's bloated styling either, like some others on this board.
  • yankeryanker Member Posts: 156
    Idrove one and thought it was a very peppy but way to noisy car. I was keenly disappointed and changed to a Camry XLE
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I know for a fact that the Accord coupe has availability problems. I have yet to SEE an EX-L stick coupe. In fact the dealer called me just today and actually said I could ADD leather to a regular EX. HAH. I've seen the allocation to 2 or three dealerships and no one is getting this model in any quantity. And they sure aren't just hanging on the lot. Also, the V6 stick and navigation haven't been introduced yet. So it goes without saying that Honda has some production issues right now with some important models.
  • mdamesmdames Member Posts: 79
    I could not disagree more about the assessment that the new Accord doesn't offer significant improvements. I owned a 2000 EX V6 sedan for 3 years. One month ago I purchased a 2003 EX V6 sedan. In addition to the more powerful and much smoother engine, 5 speed trans (which shifts far better than the previous generation), significantly quieter ride, much more powerful audio system, dual zone climate control, heated seats, one-touch driver window, larger and better looking wheels, the quality of the vehicle is far superior to my 2000. The interior materials - especially the leather - are definitely of better quality. That's not to say that the 2000 wasn't a very nice car, it was. But this car (in my opinion) is qualitatively better for about the same money. And when you start talking about the looks of a vehicle, that's too subjective to make a general statement. Beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Personally, when I first saw the new style, I wasn't crazy about it at all. Now, however, I REALLY like it a lot. It has grown on me to the point where I think it is outstanding to look at. Also, I have spoken to a few people who said they didn't care for the looks of it. But I have also had people approach me and tell me that the car was just beautiful. So, whether you like the style or not, the car has been significantly improved. After driving it for a month now, I can honestly say, it is like an entirely different car from my 2000 - to me, a huge improvement. Thanks for Listening. I'm sure I'll hear some rebuttal. But thought I'd put my two cents in.

    Good Driving!
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    Where is that? Edmunds has TMV listed as $1500 over invoice for an EX-L sedan.

    I'd agree that the supply isn't fully up to speed yet. The selection at area dealers has been pretty limited, especially if you want a manual.

    Likewise, I'd disagree with the assessment that the new car isn't significantly improved over the previous generation. I haven't driven it, but the new interior materials and seats are tops. I'm somewhat disappointed by the higher belt line and cowl, but that's the trend as evidenced by the Passat, Altima, and Mazda6.

    Judging by the comments in the new MT, the Accord came pretty close to COY honors (for what thats worth) with more significant mentions in the accompanying story than the Mazda6.
  • jguojguo Member Posts: 49
    Exact same thing happened 5 years ago after the introduction of last redesign. The sales only begin to pick up after a year.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Likewise, the similarly bloated Camry and Altima (which is actually bigger than the Accord) sales are up because...?
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    Is there any sedan out there more bloated-looking than the Camry?
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Contrary to the car enthusiasts in TH, the majority of the people I've spoken to in real life actually like the Accord's styling (as well as the Camry's and Altima's). I find that my female friends like the styling even more than the guys.


    And why are sales for VW, with its non-bloated Passat, down also?


    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4025

  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    its just market burnout. The Big3 have been sustaining sales with heavy incentives, which Honda, Toyota and Nissan were forced to match (to a lesser extent). They had to run out of buyers at some point...
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    what happens when the accord has better sales than the camry? what will the reason be then? i don't think marketing firms agree with your logic.
  • tblazer503tblazer503 Member Posts: 620
    1>The accord is very difficult to get in certain trims. My dealer searched OR, WA, ID, and CA for a Accord Coupe OR Sedan EX-L 5MT in Silver or Graphite. Wanna guess how many he found? Accord Coupe 5MT (EX) there were 3 in the Western states in that color. Accord Sedan 5MT (EX) there were about 7 in the western US. So that made 10 Accord's 4cyl EX and EX-L w/ a 5spd manny tranny. BTW, ended up getting a Sedan EX Silver 5MT. This was all on 11/01/02 if anyone is interested.

    2>Jethro... I believe the TL premium is running at 240HP and the TL-S is running at the 260 mark. So it should be comprable HP ratings w/ the V6 Accord, and you have a hair more TQ if I remember correctly, but the TL also wieghs in at a hefty 400# more.
    While we are on TL's the way they are going to make it "worthwhile" is simple. 3.5TL and I belive the RL is going to a V8 model. Of course the bigger question is with the TSX which has the k24 engine and has a base HP of 200 or so. =)

    Only thing I would trade my Ex for is an EX-L. hehe =o)
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    Ford down 20%, GM down 18%, even Toyota is down 5%.

    In the current marketplace, the fact that the Accord nearly matched last year's sales is quite an accomplishment. I think it's extremely premature to draw conclusions on the success of the Accord redesign, based on 3 month's sales in an extremely depressed market.
  • jvkalrajvkalra Member Posts: 98
    Of course the overall market is down, but rather than talk generalities, I posted sales comparisions with the other Japanese sedans, Camry and Altima, sales of both are up compared to November 2001 while Accord sales are down.

    My point was that for a recently launched model, the Accord seems to be doing not so well when compared to Camry and Altima, not compared to GM and Ford. For all the hoopla about this being the 'most dramatic' change in the Accord, one would have expected otherwise.

    I'll admit my conclusions about Accord sales are based on my bias against its bloated look, and don't care for the direction that Honda has taken with the styling of the 01 Civic or the 03 Accord (I know both cars offer the usual Honda evolutionary improvements and added features). My hunch is that this 'dramatic change' in the Accord is not going to be a hit with many Honda owners like me and particularly younger owners.
  • qguqgu Member Posts: 93
    Watched Dateline last night. They reported that for 03 midsize new car low speed crash test (bumper test) Accord got a so-so acceptable. Audi A4 was rated highest at a good.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    I'm just guessing, but weren't the Camry and Altima just ramping up production of their new for '02 models at this time last year? This would correlate with the thought that availability of the '03 Accord remains limited, hampering sales.

    Also keep in mind that Honda had special value and SE packages to shore up sales of the last year of the generation, plus greater incentives in the wake of 9/11.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "My point was that for a recently launched model, the Accord seems to be doing not so well when compared to Camry and Altima, not compared to GM and Ford. For all the hoopla about this being the 'most dramatic' change in the Accord, one would have expected otherwise."

    Accord 30058 - 1.5%
    Camry 32190 + 6.1%
    Altima 14777 + 3.9%

    According to those numbers, the Accord is outselling the Altima 2:1 and despite sales going down, it's only ~2,000 units behind the Camry, which went up by 6.1% while the Accord went down by 1.5%.

    A dramatic increase for the Camry, but not so dramatic for the Accord's decrease.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    I'll restate my opinion on this... it's extremely premature to draw any conclusions about the success of the new Accord design based on 3 months in a very depressed market. I don't care what you compare it against. You're reading WAY too much into one month's sales.
  • irish24irish24 Member Posts: 43
    in today's mail They loved the 03 accord rated it better overall than others in the family sedan class.
    didn't say too much that hasn't been discussed previously.
  • avoodiavoodi Member Posts: 6
    i have 1996 honda accord EX V6 , 70000 miles ..
    i have observed it is running at higher rpm that
    other V6 accords
    on a plain straight road
    at 60 mph - 2000-2100 rpm
    70 mph - 2500-2700 rpm
    80 mph - 3250 rmp
    85 mhp - 3500 rmp ..
    I compared it to my friends V6 accord and these
    RPM's are atleast 1000 more than his car !!
    why ?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...why such facts as the short-term [any period of a few months] sales figures for any of these cars seem to matter so very much to this forum. If you like the car, buy it. If you don't, don't. Why each point of view needs "validation" from the marketplace [if any 3 month period as anomalous as this past one can be seen as valid], is just beyond me.

    I've owned and [mostly] enjoyed the products of all of the Japanese Big Three, in some cases long before many posters in this forum were breathing on the planet. Each car at any given time in the market has had advantages and disadvantages, just as they do now. But I can't ever remember worrying much about what others thought regarding my choices at any given time. By all means, state your opinions, and if necessary restate them...and again...and again. The ongoing debate about how this car looks is a particularly useless discussion, it seems to me - this is always in the eye of the beholder, and you might as well debate the value of Picasso vs Rembrandt. OK for awhile, but it gets tiresome.

    Bring on more opinions and experiences on the actual owning and driving of these cars, and less hair-splitting about the sales numbers. Ultimately, the one number that matters is the sale you decide to make yourself, for whatever reasons - I could never buy a car because 400,000 other people had done so, or NOT because only 375,000 had made this same decision - each for many different reasons that may or may not be relevant to me. What am I missing?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Your rpm / mph ratio [28.5 mph per 1000 rpm] at 60 mph is right on the money. But the figure at 85 mph is about 500 rpm high [should be 85/28.5 or about 3000 rpm].

    This suggests a torque converter lockup feature that is not working properly [ the torque converter is slipping instead of being firmly locked to the output shaft ]. This is an electronic feature that is easy for a tech to test, and yes, it can fail. Happened at much lower mileage than yours on a '92 Sable we had. It may not be the problem, but that is where I would start.

    Auburn, do you read this forum...your opinion?

    [And not to be argumentative, but if your friend's car is actually turning "at least 1000 rpm less" than these cited numbers, I will eat this computer. Do the math, not possible on an unmodified '96...tires would have to be several sizes larger, too large to fit in the wheelwells].
  • pda97pda97 Member Posts: 91
    A lot of Honda fanatics here on this forum own Honda stocks. So when Honda does well sales-wise, their portfolios go up. Also, they get a sense of fullfillment in their dull and boring lives when Honda does well financially.

    Do u know what u are missing now, jrct9454 ???
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    No Honda stock in my portfolio... quite an imaginative position, but pretty unlikely.
  • civicwcivicw Member Posts: 135
    Unlike other unsupervised sites (where a lot of trash can get posted), I think Edmunds TH attracts not just people interested in the driving experience or more horsepower, but also opinions on market strategy, sales etc. It's possible that some auto insiders post their opinions in TH. I for one enjoy reading the wide variety of interesting posts here.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    My buddy is like that. 2 Hondas in the drive and Honda Stock in his portfolio.

    He is a fanatic, but I like him anyway.

    ;-)
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    The radios were improved in the 2001-2002s compared to the 1998-2000 Accords. I think the 2002 Accord EXV6 stereo actually sounds better than the Bose system in the Acura TL. Unfortunately, that is not much of a compliment because the Acura Bose stereo in TLs are so laughably poor.
    Do the 2003 radios have noticebly better sound quality than a 2002?
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Are much better than Camry also because Camry had 0% financing on the 2002 models almost all month& also 2003 Models(one weekend). 0% for a new redesigned 2002 model is quite a hit !

    Accord is a smash hit. Almost all of sales of last months are either close or at MSRP. Once they get to the level of 500-700 over invoice we would see much bigger numbers & also: limited avaiablitiy is still an issue. 2 Doors are almost nonexistent right now.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    They had 0 percent rates available down here in S. Carolina too. I saw a comercial on them. I think you had to finance for 24 to 36 months though. I think the new Accord will be a success because they are selling well in this area. My mother, who is one of the biggest Honda fans in the world, doesn't like it though.
  • umyayaumyaya Member Posts: 123
    I don't understand those here bashing the new accord. Have any of you taken it on an extended test drive, without the dealer. I ask because I own one, and after buying it and driving it much harder than I did with the dealer, I am even more impressed! It flies! And get ready to "eat your computer" because when I'm going 80+ I'm at 2000 revs and the car is so smooth you'd think you were going 40. This isn't because I own one, the car is just really amazing the more I drive it.

    And, by the way, the TL has one of the best sound systems in any car. The Bose system sounds great, we have an 02 TL-S and that thing has so much power, bass, and yet clarity. I do agree that the 03 Accord's system isn't as good, and maybe not even great vs. other cars like it, but I'm not sure if it's just that I'm comparing it to our TL's Bose system which I think really rocks!
  • irish24irish24 Member Posts: 43
    I don't think it's a surprise that car sales are down considerably for any or all dealers...plenty of people got cars early bkz of good deals and personally when faced w repairs on a a van for 1K w 120K miles...said...nope...deals are too good right now...better to just start new. we actually expected to trade another vehicle in first.

    got Consumer's reports today...they loved the 03 comparing it to the legacy outback and the saturn...we also have an 00 outback and they seem to be pretty much on the $...not a lot of zip w the 4, not as good mileage. Despite the fact that my husband doesn't like hondas or toyotas...I think the camry's, accords, civics and corollas are some of the best values for the $-- you just have to decide whether quiet or fun to drive is more impt. and whether mileage/ trunk space is a consideration. toyotas have better drivetrain warrantys.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Firstly, the question about rpm vs road speed was regarding a '96 V6 model, so your observations about your '03 aren't much help. I don't plan on taking any bites out of my computer, thanks.

    Secondly, I know the 5th gear in the new one is long, but it is NOT 40 mph per 1000 rpm. Car & Driver's road test had it at 31.4 mph per 1000 rpm on their '03 EX V6 sedan, and that sounds about right for the new trans: 80 mph would translate to 2550 rpm, which is a useful reduction from the 2700 or so that was the case with the previous-gen 4 spd automatic [I owned both a 4 and a V6].

    On all of the 4 spd automatics of recent vintage, road speed vs rpm ratios in high gear range in the 27-30 mph per 1000 rpm [with the torque converter locked, of course], depending on which engine and which generation car you're talking about. That's very long-legged, especially for the 4 cyl cars; the new trans improves that by about 5-10%, again depending on which year and engine you're using as the benchmark.

    The numbers posted in the problem query suggest to me, as I said, a torque converter that isn't locking up in high gear as it should: his rpm at 60 mph is right on for that car, but inexplicably high as speed increases, clearly suggesting a problem.

    With the torque converter locked, the ratio of rpm to road speed should be constant.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    I agree with jrct that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that doesn't make it a moot point in the case of the Accord. One has to remember that the '96 Taurus flopped because people didn't care for its styling. I won't go so far as saying that it's equally bad with the Accord, but certainly the 03 styling is not Honda neutral. Styling can also have a major effect on the demographics of buyers.

    Expressing opinions about styling, even a year from now is not bashing. Regardless of how smooth the 5 speed automatic is or how quickly you can get from 0-60, some buyers are fixated on the styling because they take refinement and the other Honda attributes for granted. The days when a new car was a rough machine went away long ago with Yugo. If everyone is allowed only to say how wonderful the Accord is, that would make this board really boring. JM2C.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    How do you compare the 2003 Accord to the TL? How do the seats compare?
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    To say that the ovoid Taurus flopped simply because of styling is giving Ford way too much slack. Besides the styling, the car offered nothing superior to the Camry or Accord at that time. It was a good car riding on a tried and true formula, but other cars were better and the styling was just the final straw.

    While the Accord may not be styled to everyone's satisfaction, it is almost with certainty that more people enjoy the overall car than the overall styling; that is where the new Accord differs from the ovoid Taurus. Otherwise, I doubt 30,000 people would've bought it over the stylistically superior Altima.
  • hnwilcoxhnwilcox Member Posts: 2
    Does the 03 V6 Coupe 6 Speed have a limited slip differential?

    Is it the same one as in the Cl-S 6 Speed?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I read that the Accord 6-speed will not get the Limited Slip that the CL-S has. Don't know why.

    When looking at whose sales are up and whose are down you gotta remember that the Accord outsold the Camry by a hefty margin in 2001. So while it might look strong on paper actual sales numbers are very close. I too can attest to certain Accord models being in low supply. I have yet to see an Accord Coupe 5-speed with leather... heck I haven't seen an Accord EX 5-speed coupe at all. I've also noticed that there don't seem to be too many EX's left on dealer's lots. Maybe due to the extra features over the LX (dual climate, heated seats, etc) the EX is the more desirable model and there just aren't that many of them around. It's way too early to start making judgements or coming up with theories. Let's wait a few months into 03 and see what happens.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    They don't have that many EXL 5-speeds because that is not what most people want.
    The reason why they are hard to find is not because there are hoards of people lining up to buy them.
    The dealers don't want to be stuck with too many so they are careful not to over order models that do not sell in the same volume as LX automatics or even EX automatics.
    More people buy LXs because they cost less.
    Even though they might want the extra luxury features of the EXL, most people don't want it enough to pay the extra money.
    If Honda feels they have made too many or too few of some model or trim level this year, they can adjust the production to match what people want later.
  • jakutajakuta Member Posts: 16
    Suggested websites for cheap accessories for those of us who like to self-install? Thanks.
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