BMW 5-Series Sedans

patelli

Does anyone know details on the rumored E60 interior refresh?

TIA,
Patelli

andys120

Can't happen too soon IMO.

george94

a week ago I just received a letter offering to buy my car back at 100% market value. Apparently my MY E39 03 530 5sp, SP, PP is in high demand. They offered 2.9% financing and rebate of $4,500 if I would purchase another BMW car. Hmmh, let me guess, my E39 or E60. No thank you. I will keep my E39 for many years to come.
I saw in my dealership during my last visit E39 2003 M5. Brand spanking new. This would be a hard sell to my family. Damn college bills. I wish I could afford one.

shipo

Interesting letter. ;-) I guess my Sapphire Black 2002 530i, 5-Speed, PP, SP, Xenon, Premium Audio is just too old for me to be blessed with such an offer. Gasp! Did I just infer that I wanted to get the same offer letter as you? Yup! I'd love the chance to ignore them just like you are doing. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2

I recently got a closer look at the 120i interior; the cockpit feel is still there. Too bad NA won't sell it here. At the other end of the spectrum it seems that the E60 M5 will be the Real Thing. I'm thinking it may be so good that I'll forget about the Bungled-I mean Bangled sheetmetal. OTOH, for the price of a new M5 I can pick up a nice Henna M1...

shipo

An M1, you'd better not bring it around here, that is unless you are prepared to clean the drool off of it. ;-)

Speaking of the M5, are the folks in Munich going to take the same mechanicals and stuff them into the 6-Series (which I kind of like) body? Hmmm, that might be almost too much to resist as well. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

The website has been updated to the new 2005 models.

div2

I fully expect the 6er to get the V10; after all, that's what Munich did with the first generation M5/M6. The M1 is my long term(5+ years) goal. My long-suffering wife tolerates my perpetual "mid-life crisis" since she says that she much prefers that I fool around with fast bikes/cars rather than fast women.

shipo

Sorry folks, my wife is fast enough. ;-) I took her out on a 7 mile trail run yesterday and she did just fine keeping up (yes, my broken leg has healed enough for me to go for the occasional run), any faster and I wouldn't have enough spare energy...

...ummm, sorry, my second foot found its way into my mouth. Usually my que to shut up. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Have you actually checked into the availability of an M1? I can't recall ever having seen one for sale, though I'm sure some go through the big collector's auctions.. What kind of money would that take?

My local dealer owns one.. it is sitting in the service advisor's area a lot... I don't know if that is a bad sign, or not.

regards,
kyfdx

rdaiuto

Hello. I hope everyone is reading this, for it is my first post and I am not sure how to do this. If you can read this, here is what I would like to know.
I have a 2000 E-Class, and I want to get a new car in the same caliber. I am looking at a new E-Class, a 5 Series, an Infiniti M (I'd wait till the new one comes out), the new Acura RL, a Volvo S80, or the new Lexus GS.
I don't have it narrowed down to an atom exactly, but I think you know what I mean. I would appreciate any advice you would have for me. Thank you very much in advance.

shipo

Hmmm, that's a fairly broad list of cars, maybe you should ask yourself a few questions to help in the narrowing down process. What are your requirements? How do you like to drive? Do you like/want to shift your own gears? Stuff like that.

Best Regards,
Shipo

karmikan

All nice cars but vastly different personalities. Drive 'em, then drive 'em again and be critical - minor quirks can become a major pain over time. You'll eventually know which one's right for you.

div2

M1s are available; a friend of mine runs the M1 Register so I'm able to keep track of sales and prices. It seems that there are 5-10 for sale in the US at any given time. Prices bottomed out at @$60000 a couple of years ago, and now prices are in the $75000-$100000 range. For some reason, a lot of buyers don't like the Henna Red(AKA Radioactive Orange) cars and as a result they usually sell for a few thousand less than the other colors-thats good for me since Henna is my favorite M1 color. Believe it or not, the M1 is pretty robust AND DIY friendly. It also doesn't hurt that Mobile Tradition offers a decent selection of parts. Some procedures are a pain, however. For example, you have to pull the cam box in order to adjust the valves Regardless, M1 maintenance costs aren't much higher than those of a 911-and they are much less than Ferrari or Lambo servicing costs.

rdaiuto

Thank you all for responding.
I have narrowed it down to a BMW 5 Series, Mercedes E-Class, and I added the Cadillac STS. What are your thoughts?

kyfdx

Sounds good.. At least you have a good source to find one.. My dealer has had his since new.. Needless to say, it is in great condition, but he does drive it regularly. Me? I'd settle for a really nice '88 M5 or M6.

regards,
kyfdx

sdg380

I'm obviously partial to 5's (my second), but I follow the market pretty closely.

I don't think you can go too far wrong with either of the German offerings, a 5-series is still one of the best sedans out there, regardless of how it's equipped, and typically may be slightly less expensive than a comparable Benz. A BMW offers a first-rate chassis, and hence tops driving dynamics. Depending on how much you're willing to spend for the motor, you can range from very competent "value" offering (525), to a damn fast hot rod with a 545 (read rich545's post about giving an M3 all it could handle.) I've got an '02 530 now (stick), and I'm not the only one who thinks it's got one of the sweetest engines around. Also, a trio of 6-speed trannies to choose from in the E60.

My comments are aside from styling and iDrive, which are of secondary importance to me versus chassis/drive train.

The E is a very good-looking car, and I've always thought a Benz was right up there as among the best, if not the best, of cars. Very competent chassis, a little roomier than a 5. Again, a little pricier than a BMW, and to be frank, maybe just a little "older" kind of image, if you care. SEVEN-speed auto trans. to be available. If I was buying today, it'd be toss-up between a 545 and an E500.

The Caddy has been getting accolades in the press, apparently drives very well, and you can probably get a V-8 for the price of a 6 in the BMW or Benz. But I'm just not convinced that the Caddy is up to the overall standands of the German cars, and don't think is has quite the cache, which may or may not be important to you as an owner, but is likely to impact resale value. Obviously, beauty is in the eye, but looks-wise I think it trails the Benz, then the BMW. And I'm just not sure about reliability (had 102k miles on my '91 525 without anything too major other than a clutch), or if Caddy dealers recognize that customer service had better be top notch to satisfy the buyers of cars like this.

That's my take, pick 'em between the BMW and Benz (drive them both, like the man said), the Caddy if you'd like to try GM's effort to emulate the Germans, and get an 8 for the price of a 6. By the way, I'd expect the new RL and GS you mention to be very fine cars, very good reliabilty and value, but not quite the "nose" of a BMW or Benz.
I call Volvo's "quirky" cars, very good ergonomics, good safety features, but they're nearly as expensive as a BMW, and I don't think they offer the same driving experience. The Nissan has had dismal sales, but offers good value if you get the right deal, because you'll get killed on resale.

div2

'88 M5s and M6s are a steal right now. You have to be careful to find one that's been properly maintained, but there's no better deal for the money. Stick a Conforti chip in the ECU. You should know that the cat has a bad habit of "accidentally" falling off on the garage floor late at night. Just replace it with a Fahey Track Pipe and all will be well. Along with about 310 hp at the crank...

shipo

"You should know that the cat has a bad habit of "accidentally" falling off on the garage floor late at night."

I hate it when that happens. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

cornellpinoy

You really should drive all 3 in order to know for sure which one is best for you. Mercedes, Lexus and GM tour the country and hold test-drive events for their models and its competitors. Great way to drive and compare models in an afternoon. Search online and see if the "Love Mercedes", "Lexus Taste of Luxury" or "GM Autoshow in Motion" events will be in your area anytime soon.

turnbowm

Shipo,

Item 1 - Seems like one minute is a long time to reposition the vents, but I guess anything's possible.

Item 2 - Car has 120 miles. The "grunching" sound was there from the beginning.

Martin

rdaiuto

Thank you all. I have configured the models online. I knocked the STS out of my list. It is between the 545i and the E500. Both would cost about 75,000, and that brings me to another possible selection. The price overlaps that of flagship sedans, such as the 745i. I am now wondering whether to throw out a top model E Class or 5 Series, or instead go for a base 7 series, S Class, or Audi A8. Thank you all for your thoughts.

sdg380

By way of follow-up to my earlier comments, the 7-series, S-class, and A-8 are all very fine cars, some of the best on the road, but all are well over 2 tons, and all quite a bit larger than a 5-series or E-class. Of course, cars that cost $70-80k should be damn close to the last word in luxury autos, but the word "agile" doesn't get used too much to describe them. And that is really the point, I think, just how big of a car do you want?

My folks' S-class has limo-like room, and a very refined, composed ride, but it really is a pretty big car, good if you need a roomy back seat (maybe just big if you don't). A friend's 745 feels big and athletic, but you can't change the laws of physics, it just takes a lot more of everything (engine, brakes, tires, etc.) to get such a big car to start, stop, and turn. Having only read about the A-8, it's admired for its beautiful Audi interior, and sure-footed all-wheel drive, but it's the heaviest of the 3 you mention (aluminum body notwithstanding), and I've read some feedback that the engine may in over its head, so to speak.

I've always thought that a 5-series or E-class offers a good compromise between sportiness (ie, not too big), and luxury (commodious interior), but there's no denying that the flagship sedans you mention each offer very high levels of luxury, albeit at the expense of size and weight. Assuming that cost is no object, I think you need to consider just how much car you want to lug around every time you drive.

cdnpinhead

Thanks for yet another useful post for those of us interested in the E class & 5 series.

rich545

Just found this on Car & Driver's website:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article- _id=8421

Looks like the Benz S class is getting something very similar to iDrive. I also thought it was interesting that they mentioned the interior looks very Bangle BMW-like. It's starting to look as if those that don't like iDrive aren't going to have many choices in the near future if they want BMW's, Mercedes or Audi (I read somewhere else that they are going have an iDrive-like system as well.

andys120

they introduced their MMi system with the new A8. It's been widely, if not universally, praised for being intuitive and easy to use.

kdshapiro

I have never heard one good word about it, or even one word about it.

rich545

I'm actually not really trying to compare Audi's system to BMW's. All I'm saying is that BMW, Mercedes and Audi's all will or do have versions of a centralized computer control system mounted in the dash. Honestly though, the iDrive in my 545 is really intuitive. I can't speak for the supposedly more complex 7 series iDrive, but mine was easy to learn and I actually prefer it now to having tons of buttons on the dash. I was just saying that if people don't like iDrive or systems like it they won't be buying a car from any of the "big three" German car makers because they all have it.

rdaiuto

I have narrowed it down to the top four competitors: BMW 545i, Mercedes E500, BMW 745i, Audi A8L.

What do you think?

andys120

designman

Throw in E55 for some spice.

erickpl

Honestly, the choice is ultimately going to be yours to make. You MUST ask yourself what you expect and want out of this car. They are all luxury cars. Some will be sportier, some will be bigger, some have more storage, some have more gizmos and gadgets. Ask yourself:

1. What size car do I want? Large, medium, small
2. Will this car be luxurious with sport or sporty with luxury?
3. How many people will I be hauling around?
4. Do I want the technical gadgets?
5. Which has a warranty more conducive to getting something fixed easily and with little hassle?
6. Which dealers near me can handle me and take care of me and my needs?
7. Do any of the dealers have experience offering a Euro delivery option?
8. Which styling do I like?

Me, I'd probably opt for the 545 because I want sport with luxury. The engine is wonderful and I've heard the driving dynamics are incredible. I personally like electronics in my cars, but I also know they can be a royal pain to service if bugs get into it or the wiring is suspect in an obscure area...

You can ask for 1000 responses and you'll get 1000 different answers and justifications as to why. Try each one out, hopefully on an extended test drive in a variety of situations (highway, city street, twisties, hills, etc) and see which one feels right FOR YOU.

-Paul

rdaiuto

I would like to thank everyone for helping me make my choice. I am truly grateful.
I have made my decision and I have chosen the car at the dealer. I will pick up the car at 7:30 PM tonight, and I will announce my decision after I receive the car, in case I have to return it.
At 9:00 PM, I will announce my decision.

cassidym

Salesman at Tire Rack recommends Dulop Winter Sports M3 tires and ASA JH3 wheels for my 545I which I pick up next month. It comes with Sports Package and performance tires. I live in Northern Virginia so need something besides this to safely get around in our wintery mix

I was contemplating Blizacks but he argued that they were more of a snow tire than I need in Virginia and would detract from the car's performance more than the Dunlops would. If this were Maine he said he'd recommend the Blizacks.

Cost for the Dunlops plus the ASA wheels about $1100

Anything wrong with this?

karmikan

C'mon! This is a joke right?

At 2:14pm you're still agonizing over your selection, begging for advice from total strangers. At 6:50pm you've made your decision and at 7:30pm you're picking the car up. Sure buddy.

Following your example I'm planning on buying my next house from a picture, paying for it immediately and moving in the same day. I'll inform you of my decision in due course. You can drive your new car over for a visit.

manybmws

wheels are a personal taste thing. You could probably buy BMW wheels for <$300 apiece.

The Dunlop M3s look pretty impressive on the Tire Rack comparison matrix. I put on Pilot Sport Alpins in the winter and overall they generate good snow as well as dry and high speed handling.

I would consider the Dunlops myself. Get them and let us know how they work out.

rdaiuto

I purchased a BMW 545i, Sapphire Black Metallic, Black Dakota Leather, Steptronic Auto Trans. Thank you all for helping me with my decision.
One of us from Canada noted my quick decision on purchasing a car, and invited me over to his new house in my new car. I would like to thank one for his sarcasm, but I would like to thank the rest for being patient and helping me make my quick decision.
I would rather have a quick decision, and have a car that I looked at the day before ready to pay in cash, then to agonize over the decision for months.
Thank you all again.

houstonmerc

Congratulations rdaiuto on your new car. I'm in the market, and while I will probably want something larger this time, if I don't go "large" I will consider the 545.

Don't worry about the ridiculous comments knocking you. As far as I know, all of us are "strangers" here. How someone can describe participating in the forum as begging, and take on someone for buying a new car, is beyond me. Fortunately most of the participants here are civil.

rdaiuto

Houstonmerc -

Thanks for your kind words. I don't know if you saw my previous posts, but I was also thinking of something larger - Audi A8, Mercedes S Class, BMW 7 Series. I looked at all of them, but I think the 5, at least so far, is better. My price range was about 70-80K. With that, I could get a premium midsize or a spartan flagship. I would rather have a premium midsize. You get almost all the options, and an equally good car.

kyfdx

The guys at Tire Rack really know their stuff when it comes to winter tires.. especially BMWs.

I have to agree about getting more of a driver's tire, than a pure "snow" tire. You are only going to see about 10-12 days where you really need the snow traction, but you'll have the rest of the four months driving on dry/wet roads, and better road tires will make a difference.

I really like stock factory wheels better than the after-market.. A good used set off a non-sport 530i probably wouldn't set you back more than $600. The trade-off is... they won't come from Tire Rack already mounted and balanced. Many people buy the after-market and are perfectly happy with them, and if they are recommending them, you can be sure they will fit.

regards,
kyfdx

glaker

I ran the Dunlop WinterSport M2 on my 530 last year in upstate NY and loved them. I just ordered the Dunlop M3 for our 330. I chose them over the Michelins because of the more aggressive tread pattern for use in the snow. Unless you're looking to do a bunch of research to find good used BMW wheels for sale, I would go with a package from TireRack. I just think it's rather time consuming to find the wheels used (I think I'd want to actually inspect them for curb rash, etc.) and then pay to ship them to you (which is quite costly when you don't ship in the quantities that TireRack does). BMW wheels new are simply too costly to use with a winter tire IMO. I don't personally like the look of the ASAJH3 and would suggest that you go to TireRack's web site and look at some alternate choices. If you're willing to pay even $30 more per wheel there are lots of choices available to you. Good luck!

jizack

Folks appreciate a little help.

Started out looking at 3-Series, but they were a little too little. Now looking towards a used 5 (Auto, PP). Currently looking at 3 options '00 528i, '01 530i, or '03 525i. All about the same mileage, price (528's $3000 cheaper), etc.

Any advice/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

pen101

From September Roundel, July Sales:

5-Series: down 50% for the month and 10% YTD

7-Series: down 45% for the month and 16% YTD

Worse, note that last July the new Five hadn't gone on sale yet, and the old one had been out of production for months. As for the 7-Series, comparing the July 1999 sales of the E38 7-Series to the new Seven in its third year of sales shows that the E38 outsold the current model nearly two-to-one!

karmikan

A toughie. The 530 has perceptibly more power than the 525 which I felt was slightly underpowered. To me the difference swung the balance immediately and I got a 530. However, there are people on this board who just love their 525s and think it's got adequate power.

Although both the 525 and the 530 will likely prove reliable, 2 years of extra warranty could be worth a lot. I'd suggest that you drive the 525, if it's got enough power for your taste buy it. If you want more power go for the 530. Either way you're going to get a great car.

Good luck

maccar

Not much traffic in the prices paid forum:
Private seller, 2003 530iA, premium, sports, xenon headlights, rear side air bags, DVD navigation, park distance control, 6-CD changer, 18000 miles, clean carfax, asking 42000. Good deal? Great deal? Too good to be true? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

cassidym

Hey rdaiuto, nice going on the 545! I wish I had your decisiveness. I've been months (okay, okay, years) making up my mind. But after all that agonizing, I reached the same conclusion you did and ordered a 545. Mine'll be Olivene Green six-speed with SP, NAV, HUD, Sat radio and Cold Wx Package. Pick it up in Munich next month after my wife and I drink ourselves silly at October Fest.

cassidym

Thanks to all for the quick response and comprehensive advice. Am taking your advice and buying the package from Tire Rack. Will order as soon as I get back from picking up the car in Germany.

erickpl

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/103035/articl- e.html?tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.firstdrive.1g

-Paul

dabimmer

We just returned from a 3200 mile trip from California to NV, UT and Colorado and back.
The 530iA with sport and premium packages was sheer joy to drive and travel in. We went over many mountain passes from 7 - 9 thousand feet all the way to 11K feet and the
engine response was so smooth and seamless that it was no struggle at all, felt like driving at sea level all the way. My best mileage was 32 and my worst was 29.1 which was pretty remarkable since I was traveling at 80 mph on straightaways and 65 in the mountains, with A/C on . Isn't it wonderful to be able to travel in a car that does all that and still delivers up to 32 mpg ?? I finally reached almost 23,000 miles on this 2001. My tires are still original Michelin Pilot Primacy and despite all the knocks on them they responded beautifully and the ride was just fine and not noisy at all. The tires look brand new still and should hold for another 10 K miles easily.

cmr530i

It sounds like those 3200 miles were well spent! Great job on the gas mileage too. I happen to like the Primacys as well and am on my second set. I had them put on at about 32K miles.