Lexus LS 400/LS 430

rennybosch

In 1999, I bought an E320, mainly because in my test drive I was extremely impressed with how well it "handled" (I was coming from a Cadillac). After driving it for a while, I found that I no longer enjoyed listening to books on tape, because the car's noisiness made me strain to clearly understand what was being said. (In fairness, I wear hearing aids and that might have exacerbated the noise interference.)

Also, in the first 6 months I had to have the car in for repairs 6 times. The dealer was very polite and solicitous, and their facility was very impressive, what with free cappuccino and everything, but my impression of German manufacturing craftsmanship and reliability took a nose dive.

After 6 months I was so disgusted with the noise and unreliabilty that I researched the Consumers Union Auto Buyers Guide to find which car is the quietest, and most reliable. It was the Lexus LS400, but by this time the LS430 had already been announced so I suffered with the E320 for another 6 months before my LS430 arrived. I can now enjoy books on tape again, the handling still beats the Cadillac by a mile, and the reliabilty has been outstanding so far.

For people who value handling and do not mind noise, I recommend the E320. For people with good sense, I recommend the LS430.

nealm1

Since you have owned both, do you really think the E handles a lot better than the LS? It should handle somewhat better, given the size and weight differential, but I haven't noticed that big a difference in my times behind the wheel of an E. Maybe I just need to drive them back-to-back

bcleepe

I ordered the Charcoal color floor mats from the Lexus dealer to replace my Ecru color mats. It is lised at $127. Charcoal mats match the grey wood and dash boad nicely.

The heated/AC seats only works for the bottom not back.

rennybosch

I would say the E320 handles a little better than the LS430, but not a lot. I should add that I am not an expert on handling; I don't drive my cars as though they were sports cars, so I can't judge some of the finer points that some other drivers might find important (like taking a 90 degree curve at 80 mph).

As Merc1 points out, the greater weight of the LS430 is bound to have a slight effect on handling.

antiosama

merc1, I looked at a S430 when I bought my Ls400 in 2000. Strange thing, most of the S430's have over $10K in options stacked on to begin with. I couldn't find a single S430 on the lot with a MSRP even within $5K of MSRP. And the salesman, confirmed what I picked up from looking at the cars on the lot: that they generally come heavily optioned if not fully optioned. So unless, you have time to kill for 3-4 months while your custom S430 arrives, you're basically going to have to pick from a car with a $10 grand plus option package. And I find this to be the ultimate in nickel&diming: charging $600+ for Metallic or Pearl paints.

mritter

Grogman, the person I have dealt with at germain Easton is Brian Kramer. I am posting this info with his permission. Nice outgoing guy that wants to sell cars...

merckx

First off,I think the LS430 is truly a wonderful car;my wife much prefers it to a Mercedes,and for that reason alone it might be my next car. But I do prefer the Merc E320. Here's why-
This might seem a little esoteric,but the double thermometers inside really bother me-they seem indicative of Lexus just giving the customer whatever they want-even if it's overkill(notice they,but not Benz,offer a "gold"package). Whereas the German companies still seem to have a vision of what a car should be-even if first they must educate the customer.
Or the wood wheel(Jag was here first,but Mercedes probably followed the Lexus example). With serene driving,keeping one's hands at 3 and 9,it's fine. But when you do drive with gusto(I realize none of these cars are Miatas,the wood is quite slippery. In general,I think there's just too much wood inside! But I do like cars plain to a fault.
The Mercedes is just more fun to drive. I think it the perfect balance of the opposites the aforementioned Miata and the LS430.
German cars in general have a bit of flinty hard edge to them. That very quality drives many to Lexus. The LS430 has finally out Rolls-Royced Rolls Royce. And at $55,000,that's no mean feat.
It's all subjective,of course.Some look inside a E320 and think it's cheap and hard. I call it restrained.
Finally,considering its fairly trim exterior,the Mercedes is amazingly roomy inside. I find this unusually intelligent packageing to be a true elegance.

ljflx

Merc1 - No point in arguing about justification. I've always been very secure in every decision I make - business or personal - and the only time I've ever justified anything to myself is is when there are tricky morality issues involved. But if you want to think this is a way of justifying one's purchase - so be it. I leased anyway and I'm less than 20 months from a new lease. Odds are 90-10 it'll be another LS car. They are simply perfect cars.

Merkx - It's all about one's tastes. I could never feel the way you do as I love all those things but nonetheless I respect your tastes.

Nealm1 - I'm with you all the way. It's all about value. I wouldn't mind that big and better house in the Hamptons either but living in NJ I'd probably opt for Long Beach Island. It's the Hamptons of New Jersey.

merc1

How does MB get so much money for the E-Class? Easy it's a good, reliable, sturdy car that is for one the right size and according to a many buyers the right price. How is that the best selling luxury car in the world and in it's class in the U.S. doesn't "compete"? I think you're just going to have to get over the fact that some like the E enough get it instead of the LS430. You keep trying to insinuate that any that buys the E is a fool, and that is your problem, not theirs. It's also an insult to E-Class owners which is amazing because Lexus owner/fans always shout that the MB people are the snobs. Unbelievable. Your house analogy doesn't work because houses even more so than cars are "emotional" purchases.

antiosama,

True, but waiting for a car is nothing new, and people that pay 50K for a car usually don't "need" a car right away, they usually have other cars. You don't think people had to wait for certain Lexus models when they first came out, or when the order one with specific equipment??

ljflx,

I'm sure you are very secure in your actions, anyone that would have 2 of the same cars would have to be.

M

nealm1

Thanks for the explanation. We definitely disagree, but I respect your candid explanation. Just to close out the topic: I think our primary area of disagreement is this. You criticize Lexus for "just giving the customer whatever they want" while praising MB for determining "what a car should be-even if first they must educate the customer." In my view, your observations are dead-on correct, but you are rewarding the wrong behavior. I want cup holders that work, a 6-disc changer in the dash, etc. I don't need Hans to tell me that I don't want it or shouldn't have it. I get enough of that from the government and my spouse. If that is "flint" I want none of it.

merc1: There is no need to be so emotional about these things. I asked merckx a question, he gave me an answer. He and I disagree; so what. I never questioned the intelligence of anyone. I never said that the E wasn't a good car. I never denied that MB sells a lot of them. I simply said that it was difficult for me to find a rational basis for making that choice. But not all buying decisions are based on rational thought, as your posts regularly remind me.

merckx

These are two great examples of my arguement.For many years,some have said that Mercedes' seats were too hard(I have never felt this way,however). The surface "hardness" was a longevity aid,and I have seen MANY 25 year-old unrestored Benzes that have had jaw-droppingly pristine interiors. The "hard" seat structure I've always made the seat MORE comfortable,and certainally an aid in driver alertness and control.
But lately,even Benz is giving in-the seats are softer.
Here's a great example-When in College,I worked in a professional cycle racing shop. And those $4,000 bicycles did come with very narrow,hard seats. You'd have to explain to customers that a superfically "cushy" seat is wrong-it absorbed energy(which made the journy more arduous and thus less fun,and also could chaff). But the Japan pro bikes started coming with padded seats. We'd change them for those who'd listen,but after a while,some would get a "why fight it?" attitude.
The 2002 Porsche comes with cupholders for the first time,but really dinky,cheesy ones. They just can't do what they disagree with.

merc1

Well now you say you didn't question anyone's intelligence but you say that they aren't thinking "rationally". You're still trying to imply that the LS430 is the logical choice. Maybe some people simply don't want the car, ever thought about that? It's styling alone would do it for most. You can't deny that it's (E-Class) a good car nor the E's sales figures. The line about my posts I'm going to ignore for a change.

M

nealm1

merckx: your examples illustrate the differences in approach. I suppose I just don't want to be dictated to, nor do I plan to keep a car 25 years. My LS400 had 125k on it when I sold it, and the seat was in great shape. Just suppose we will have to disagree, but thanks for the explanation. I will be interested to hear whether your view changes if you buy the LS; after being pampered for awhile, I wonder if you will grow to like it and be less tolerant of the paternalism from Stuttgart. Keep me apprised.

ljflx: I have a partner here who has been returning every summer to the same house on LBI since he was a kid (35+ years). He keeps extolling the virtues of the northern beaches, but my wife can't understand the notion of going north to the ocean. We go to the Outer Banks every year.

merckx

I'm there right now after buying a Passat for myself and a Catera for my wife last year. So a new LS430/E320/S430 is a rather long-term plan of mine.

I'm 90 miles north of the Outer Banks(Va Beach). Whenever I think of Northern beaches,all I can see are my little cousins swimming at Jones Beach with their sneakers still on in about 1966. Northern thing?

flint350

".... I get enough of that from the government and my spouse. If that is "flint" I want none of it."

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments (which may be why merc1 apparently always misses your point), but I wonder - was that quoted part above in reference to something I said or did I just miss the point? Just curious. Anyone can always feel free to disagree with me.

brtmd

I am planning on purchasing an LS430 in the near future and am new to this discussion. I have driven the standard suspension car--very nice ride with pretty good driving dynamics. I am very interested in the alternative eurotuned suspension, but have been told they are "rare" and have been unable to drive one. Any opinions out there amongst you current owners who have driven both? Thanks for your advice.

lenscap

If nothing else I'd get the Euro suspension because of the 17" wheels. The standard 16" ones look too small for the car in my opinion.

agent0986

I have the Euro-tuned suspension and its terrific. I also chose it because the factory 16in. tires in my opinion appeared to be too small. Very small difference in terms of quietness and smoothness and handling and cornering is greatly improved. Handling was very important to me, and i also test drove the last generation 7 series before the purchase. LS430 Euro was VERY Close, and in the end the total package of the LS430 won me over. The S500 interior just didnt work for me. Also a great car though. S430 was not even considered, nor was e-class.

merc1- Do you own a mercedes? and take no offense to this question but where did this love for mercedes originate? You do make many valid points, but so do the Lexus owners on this board. IN the end its just a matter of opinion i suppose.

eadlu

I purchased a 02 LS430 two weeks ago which has the Euro suspension. The car has about 600 miles on it now and the tires are getting close to being broken in (Dunlop Sport 2800). The car is a joy to drive and corners beautifully and to my ears is as quite as the standard LS430 which I test drove for a few miles. One downside-the tires will require replacement in about 20,000 miles at over $200 each plus mounting cost.

merckx

are available with all season tires as a stand alone option. Sport tires on such a heavy car will indeed wear out rather quickly. Before anyone says,"well,that's the price of sport".I'd remind them of the small-print disclaimers all manufacturers print about sport tires. That's because a few years,before most considered the rapid wear,a group of Porsche owners started a class action suit over this issue. I doubt they got far,but this shows that even overt "sports"chaff at replacing tires so soon.

ljflx

I have base but my partner has the euro and I don't discern any difference in noise either. It is just as quiet and handles beautifully. I also was scared off by fear of quick tire wear(wish I wasn't though). My partner has pushed the car through 27k miles and the tires still look good. He's planning on changing at 35-40k miles. Not bad at all.

ljflx

So if you were buying today what would be the deciding factor? and remember your spouse plays a vital role so consider it all.

I envy you and Nealm1 for being so close to the beaches I crave. Give me any beach area from the outerbanks on south because the most important thing to me is that 82+ degree water temperature. I'm a big Myrtle, Hilton Head, South beach, Naples and Long Boat key fan myself. LBI - maybe late August when we reach the 75-78 degree level.

jschlenker

I have 22,000 on my euro equipped LS and estimate tire wear to be about 50%. My euro equipped LS handles much better than my former STS.

brtmd

Thanks for the excellent responses regarding the suspension--just the type of experienced opinions I was looking for. I am not turned off (enough) by the potential tire wear issue, so I will probably go for the euro suspension (but I would like to actually test drive one). I am curious, were any of you able to easily find the LS you wanted (options/colors) with the euro suspension at a dealer, or did you have to factory order?

merc1

Nope, and it's a long story.

M

nealm1

re: "flint": After I wrote that post, I thought maybe you might see it, and I should have explained. Sorry; it has nothing whatever to do with you. merckx wrote that he preferred the "flinty" German cars to Japanese because the Germans give you what they want you to have, rather than pandering to the customer (a supposed "advantage" that frankly boggles my mind), and I was responding that if jamming unwanted features (or their absence) down a customer's throat was what he meant by "flint," I didn't want any of it.

But we haven't had enough "flint350" on the board; where have you been?

merckx

What I meant is that everything in German cars often seems somewhat hard. The seats,the steering,even the suspension can seem a little stiff-legged. This is what attracts me to them.
Last year,BMW tried to increase steering boost in its 3 series,thinking US customers would prefer that. After the outcry,they offered to retrofit the old,heavier steering foe dissatisfied customers.
As far as "vision",I feel Mercedes will at times steer the customer;they,after all,are the professional designers. And sometimes I do think a customer can have an ill-advised preference. After all,few of us are as immersed in cars as the manufacturers are.

l943973

A coworker of mine is looking at an LS in the 1990-1994 models. Does anyone know if any of these years had models with problems?

thanks,

ljflx

I am missing your wonderful elegant posts as well.

hudda_a

1990-1994 LS400s were known for power steering problems. Mine (1994 LS) had to be rebuilt at a cost of approx $1,000.
Others have experienced LCD display problems (I have not - touch wood).

pontoisele

Thanks for your thoughts "hyperopt."(a member in LS400 problems)
As a car owner, I thought when someone purchase the car, he think about safety first by always picking the car w/more safety feature if they can afford it.Basicly seat belt first and after came air bags .Driver air bags,next is passenger side airbags and...now side airbags. No one told me that in order to make airbag working, the car must met a certain parameters as you said.Only they said that to provide more safety for oeople.Luckily no one want have opportunity to test the functioning of their airbag by involving into an accident.If not lucky, during a bad accident like mine, they lost their live and no one complains that his air bag do not meet some parameters to deploy and he not here either to understand why.
I'm not against Lexus,actually I driving a LS 400, and I still planning upgrade it to LS 430 this coming september.But before that,I will pursuit this matter till it's solved friendly or legally.
It's nt first time, it happened once w/ my brother 91 LS 400 last year which is totally lost and airbag not deploy.He got a 97 LS and forgot it because may be it's too old so airbag can be mal functioned.
Mine is different, it had two,driver and passenger side and none is deployed.
My goal is very simple, just to get the refund of the non functioning air bags when they are not working as advertised , secondly want lexus people provide some place, some way to test the air bag functioning of mine and other lexus owner (including you too,if you own a lexus.) So every one will be sure that their car are reliable and SAFE.
I don't want make any money on them.We are so lucky that no serious things happened to us.If some one tell me how to post pics in this page I will post them so lexus owner will understand why I wrote these lines. Thanks.
This accident happened during a curved turn in a 2 lanes drive, to avoid an other car head on us, we moved to the right and lost control, hit to a tree, bounced to an other tree......
Is it the purpose or airbag to protect us in these circumstances?
I copied this to warning Lexus owner about air bags.Some time we can test it only one not twice.
And Lexus always my favorite till now.
Any help, suggestions mail to : mle204@hotmail.com

pcbrs

Hi-

Glad to hear that you are okay. If the collision were head-on, then the airbags should've deployed. However, if the impacts were at an angle or from the side, it's better that the airbags do not deploy and cause injury. Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff

cul8ter

I saw one of these at Lexus of Palm Beach. In my imagination, I would have thought that an LS430 with a rag top would look crazy. However, after seeing it in person, it doesn't look half bad. Has anyone else seen an example of this type of customization (It appeard to be factory installed).

nealm1

pcnrs is right about the air bags. They are meant to deploy only in crashes of a certain velocity and then only when the crach comes from certain angles (although the side bags now reduce the number of serious crashes that won't deploy bags of some sort). I worry that all the controversy about bag safety has forced the manuf's to turn down the sensitivity on the sensors to the point where the bags are less useful than they might otherwise be. Squeaky wheel syndrome; the relative handful of deaths and injuries resulting from the bags force manuf's to dumb down a system that is saving, what, 5 lives for every injury it causes? Doesn't make sense.

pontoisele

Thanks for your thoughts Alpha01 in Lexus ES 300 Topic.
Yesterday I already talked to Lexus satisfaction department and they will send some one to inspect it within 2 WEEKS.I'm not yet know what's decision of my insurance 'bout the car now,only 2 days after the wreck, the appraiser back from towing yard, give me call telling that my car might be totaled.So you can guess what kind of impact the car already suffered.I'm waiting on Lexus inspection results and I guess will be similar with your opinion.Think about Ford Explorer problems , do they accept their mistake ? Obviously,never they recognize their mistake .They afraid of their consequences. My case very simple.Good things ubder God protection no serious things harm us.What I'm asking for very simple and easy too.My goal is for the safety of myself and all other Lexus owners.My self I'm a Lexus fanince 91, my actual car is a LS 400-96, 3rd revised model,my 1st was a 91 LS 400. Because they are so great, I got a ES 300-97 for my wife and planning trade mine in to get a LS430.Never checking paper work to find out air bag problem or some thing else, because I trust on their reliability and their safety.Thanks to GOD.Since 91 till now, no accident to me.And I'm sure that no body wish to have an accident to test the functioning of their air bags,so they can examine point by point as your opinion if they do not deploy.Remenber that, can test once only, second time if they are lucky enough to survive.Last night on TV there is an ad for a car, I forgot the brand name, the car just been hit by an animal, and driver airbag, passenger airbag, side air bag, every thing deployed.They do not mentioned anything 'bout accelarating or decelerating. Just saying to protect people . An other gentleman told me that in order to get it work, the speed must be 15 miles/hr min.Actually on the roads now , none driving that speed, may be in parking deck or garage.
I want mentioned one more time that never I want make money on this matter.God already gave me enough so I enjoying luxury cars now, not a Yugo.Just to ask Lexus to act now, how? don't know beside What I'm asking.Do not wait until dozen of lexus owner been killed or recall required by National safety Transportation Board or some thing else happened.Do we need bring cars within a certain years old in for inspection or ...
My ES 300 still under warranty.I copied these line for info to all actual or furure Lexus Owner.
If in lieu to protect ,it will harm people as other opinion mentioned, why do not remove them and come up with something else.And do not lie in their ads

mheni1

Drive 2001 LS 430. Updated my navigation system 2000 version 1 to 2001 version 1. Cost $691-parts and labor. Upadated based on conversation with Lexus Hq that indicated northern NJ and Wash, DC area coverage would be expanded. Unfortunately am still unable to program my sons location in W Orange (located in northern NJ). Have not yet tried Wash area. Would suggest anyone considering update contact Lexus Hq and go thru the laborious process of listening to list of areas with increased coverage.

wwest

are JUST backups for the seatbelts.

nealm1

wwest is correct; the passive restraints are intended to work in combination w/belts. Injuries can occur from bags, but almost all of them can be attributed to those who are not belted. In fact, the bags could be made MUCH more effective, saving untold numbers of lives, but if the manuf's did so, they would pose a greater threat to those who are not belted. IMHO, the bags' effectiveness should be maxed out, and if there are those who refuse to wear their seat belts, they should just accept the risk. It galls me that the lives of my family members are in ANY measure put at risk to make the world safer for those who refuse to help themselves.

wwest

rennybosch

I had previously noticed that the laser cruise control (not the regular cruise control) becomes inoperative when it rains. I took that as an intentional safety measure.

Last night as I was driving (with laser cruise control on) directly toward the setting sun low on the horizon, I heard a ding and saw the warning message "Cruise control is not available" along with the triangular warning icon. There was no hint of rain, so I suspected some intermittent computer malfunction. A little while later I tried the laser cruise control again and it worked! But only briefly; after a slight turn it again turned off. The blinding sun made me suspect that it might be the culprit. So I waited till the road turned again slightly away from the sun, and sure enough, the laser cruise control was again operational. And remained so until another turn made us face the sun directly -- then it again turned off.

So it seems that if the car is pointing directly into the sun (plus or minus a small vertical beam width), the laser cruise control is unable to work. Presumably the incoming sunlight blinds it.

During this experiment I also verified that the regular cruise control continued to work regardless of the sun's position.

Just thought you'd like to know.

yamahar6

has anyone noticed that the throttle "tip-in" (I think that's what its called) is very weird on the LS430.

I had the previous 400, and while it was a bit slow, obviously being a luxury car, it was not that different that a regular car.

The 430 throttle is almost as if there is honey or syrup or something coating the spring, actually, it seems like there is no spring at all.

This is in extreme contrast to the fairly firm brake pedal, that if you push lightly, nothing seems to happen; a firm push is required, like a sports car. The contrast is what is annoying, Lincoln-like gas, and porsche-like brake.

I'm not sure if that is just a problem with my particular car or an endemic characteristic of all 430s. Anyone else notice this?

-Yammi

yamahar6

Uh, I was wondering if anyone has had any track experience in their 430>?
I realize that this car is hardly built for track work but I'd love to learn to drift the car thru turns.

My car has the 17 inch tires which are fairly "sporty" (Dunlop Sport SP9000s, I think).

Does anyone with track car experience have any suggestions? Is it "safe" to do a track-day on the car?

feverhart

I'd like to swap my LS430's 17" wheels with BridgestoneTuranzo E33 tires (16K on tires with very good tread) for LS 430 16" wheels with or without tires.

Any interested parties in or near the Maryland area, please contact me at fredeverhart@comcast.net.

jbianco12

The situation you describe about the laser cruise control not working in the rain or when facing a setting sun directly in front of you is correct. I remember reading about it in the owners manual. The manual also says that the laster cruise doesn't work properly if the vehicle in front of you if VERY dirty or if the vehicle has a real high clearance.

jbianco12

I have an 02 LS430. I know what you mean about the throttle pedal feeling like it's coated with honey. Mine has very smooth acceleration and you don't have to press very hard to get the car moving.
I find the car's brakes to be real sensititve too. Just a tap on the break and you can feel the pads clamp down hard on the wheels.
You may want to have the brakes checked next time you bring your car in for service.

helmar

My 1999 LS400 hates to downshift. Often I'm trying to rapidly accelerate from 20-40 MPH the transmission often takes 1-2 seconds to decide what to do.

I'm planning on purchasing an LS430 in October and wonder if this problem is still there....

Other than that, this is by far the best and most comfortable car I've owned.

yamahar6

Actually, driving it today, I realized what the "problem" is: No engine vibration reaching the go pedal.

On the last LS,the steering wheel was isolated from the engine vibration, but the gas pedal was fairly "normal;" on the current 430, all I think that remains to be fully isolated is the gearshift lever.

jbianco12

I don't notice any problem downshifting in the LS430. But everybody's preference in car performance is different. So don't take my word for it...I'm sure a dealer would be thrilled to give you a test drive.

jbianco12

On the LS430, there are three buttons on the left side of the steering wheel. The first two are for the audio volume...increase/decrease. Then there's a third button that says "set". Does anyone know what the set button does and how to use it? I thought it was to set radio stations but didn't notice anything happening when I tried it. (I think this is one of the last things that I have to learn about the car...it's taken a few months to master everything!!)
Thanks,

rennybosch

The Set button is used in conjunction with the audio system, to control the volume. When you have the volume set to a level that you like, hold in the Set button for a second or two. Thereafter, whenever you press the Set button briefly, it will restore the volume to that same level.

Some people have suggested using it as a "Mute" button, by setting it when the volume is turned all the way down. But of course that doesn't give you an "Unmute" function.