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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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Comments

  • drcomputerdrcomputer Member Posts: 82
    Well, my dealer called yesterday and said "good news" my DVD had finally arrived. I stopped by on the way home to have it installed. The head tech wanted to do it for/with me since this is the first replacement they have gotten. I joked with him about the $150 they wanted to charge for installation (although I was getting it all for free). It's pretty simple to install. Just unscrew two screws on the unit, tip it up, put the key in the ignition, hit eject, swap the DVD, screw it back in and you are done--ten minutes tops. You do get to see a pretty screen on the display when you put the new disk in. It loads new software automatically and then returns to normal.

    So far, I can't see many differences. The areas with parks and shopping malls now have new icons of trees and presents. The voice is a bit different and there are new prompts. It now says "System is showing the American Restaurant Icons". They seemed to added the word "icons" all over the place and it's a different woman's voice. There are some places that were not on the map before that now appear. But there are others still missing. The POI database is improved (at least here in LA). Stores that have been out of business for 10 years are gone and places that were missing now seem to appear---although it is still not perfect.

    It did not upgrade the software to add any of the voice commands for the stereo system like are found in the 2002. I really don't know what the software upgrade actually did. I have called Denso to ask since the Dealer had no clue and the DVD case just had a small book showing the map coverage areas. I'll let you know what Denso says and if I find any other significant changes in the maps. It is version 2001.1 now, just like is found in the 2002 cars.

    BTW, I did try to make a DVD copy (for backup purposes...of course), but the disk is now 6.5GB. Too large for the burner (4.77GB max). Oh well. But I'm sure if you talk to corporate, they will bend and give you the update for free too. You can very easily install it yourself if you want.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Thanks doc, for the detailed description of your process. Great update.
    I spoke to the dealer and Lexus Customer Svcs about the update and they said for those who have an 02 Lexus, their current version is the most updated. The next update for 02 cars will be in the fall.
    By the way, where is the DVD located? Is it in the trunk or located in or under the dash somewhere? It is astounding to me that Lexus would even considering charging a dime to replace a DVD. They're taking us for a ride!!!
  • drcomputerdrcomputer Member Posts: 82
    It's in the trunk on the right side under the floor mat. It's a black box and the DVD ejects from the left side. There are two screws holding the unit down that must be removed first so you can tip it up and press the eject button which is hidden behind a sliding piece of plastic. The car has to be on to operate the eject button.
  • grogman1grogman1 Member Posts: 76
    I'm shopping for an LS 430 and wanted to see how the price measures up with those of you that have recently purchased. For an '02 with the the Nav and Lev sound system the MSRP is $60,288. Dealer will sell it for $58,295. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Recalling the recent discussion on whether the nav updates are free or not, I just saw this on the Benz site where they compare the S430 to the LS430 (and not a pretty comparison for Benz, IMO) - this is a partial quote, seemingly taken directly from Lexus material:
    "...Detailed Maps For Nearly 90 US Metropolitan Areas; Owners Of Lexus Satellite Navigation System Are Entitled To 2 Free National Database Upgrades Display ..."
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    To: Grogman1.

    I got the Custom Pkg on my 02 LS which includes additional options not included in the Nav/Levinson pkg. So I can't tell you if you've got a good deal or not.
    However, there are a few websites that will display dealer cost and MSRP. In fact, the Edmund.com new car web site has the data there for you. Also try cars.com, caranddriver.com, kellybluebook.com. Hope this helps.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Flint 350:
    Great data on the 2 free navigation updates!
    I'm going to search through my documentation to see where this comment might be written and will post the page number on this website for everyone. It's always better to go into the dealer with chapter and verse to get the quickest satisfaction.
  • chitungchitung Member Posts: 18
    58K for Nav/ML is too expensive. I should be around 54K to 55K. With Nav/ML option, you can have real-wood woodtrim color with ivory or ecru leather. However, with Custom/UL, you can only either get gray woodtrim color with ecru leather or real-wood wood trim color with black leather. That's stuuupeed.
  • chitungchitung Member Posts: 18
    Has any body has custom lux package with either ivory or ecru with real-wood color wood trim instead of gray?
  • kjack100kjack100 Member Posts: 133
    Can I ask your opinion...thumbs up or down on the Mystic Sea Opalescence color in the 2002? We were considering ordering a new LX470 and have never actually seen the color in person. On the brochure and web site it looks great. On some photos I've seen of an LS400 of the same color, calling it electric green is putting it nicely. Thanks for any input.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Price - very dependent on color and where you live.

    Colors - don't go by old LS400 model colors as many of the new ones are different other than white, black and silver. The mystic gold is very different than the old cashmere, the midnight pine is radically different than the old dark green as is the black cherry etc.

    Tuned LS400 - saw my first one today on the Henry Hudson Parkway in NYC. Silver with all tinted glass, lower body panels, huge tires and beautiful wheels. This car really looked like it was on tracks the way it handled and it seemed lower to the ground - if that is possible. The guy was really rolling and I certainly couldn't keep pace with him as I was in my truck. But the car was abolutely stunning. When Lexus sells tuned cars directly through dealers I'm sure they will be a big hit. This car looked as good or better than any MB S AMG that I've ever seen.
  • rkim7102rkim7102 Member Posts: 1
    To grogman1

    I don't know where you live, but I bought a base LS430 with heated seat and roof for 51,700 (list 57,000 and change) in suburb of Chicago three days ago.
  • trentpatrentpa Member Posts: 26
    Have my '01 LS430 for one year now, and LOVE the color. It's definitely a green, but a light silvery green. Looks great with the ecru interior. I ordered it in that color, sight unseen, then started to worry about the color. Dealer gave me the addresses of a few Lexus owners who ordered other models in that color and I'd occasionally drive by until I finally saw one in the driveway, and really liked it. Still haven't seen a LS430 in another color that I like better, although I haven't seen the new blue for '02. The dark colors are also nice, but the "keep clean" problem with dark colors prevents me from getting a dark car.
  • mrittermritter Member Posts: 10
    I paid $54,800 for my '02 Nav/ML...Keep beating on them or find another dealer...As far as the Mystic Sea Green Color, I like it, but some people don't like it at all. It is a color that I would want to see before I ordered it...
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Mystic ended up being my second choice because I thought the green was a bit too dark. When you see the Mystic in the brochure, it looks like a lighter shade to me. When I saw it up close and in the light, it looked a bit too dark for my preference. If it had been a lighter shade of green...perhaps a bit heavier on the silver, then I would have jumped on it. My first choice, and the car I ended up getting, was the Silver with Ecru interior. But don't get me wrong, the Mystic is a nice shade - and it looks great with the Ecru interior. (Careful with Ecru interior...it works best if you don't have kids...if you know what I mean...lol)
  • fabtfabt Member Posts: 22
    I have a 2001 LS430 in Mystic Sea Opal. I think it looks great too, as others have posted, especially because it does not show dirt. Grey interior goes great with it. However, the original post was inquiring regarding the LX470. My advice: Colors look very different on different cars. So, only buy the color IF YOU SEE IT AND LIKE IT ON THE LX470. Don't go by how it looks (good or bad) on a different model. And forget about the pictures in the brochures; You've got to see it in person before making a choice.
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    I know I am preaching to the choir, but I just read a posting on the E Class board in which a proud new owner exulted about "paying 48K for an E320, Silver/Black, Heated Seats, K2A Cellphone package, CD Player." How in the world can one justify this kind of money for cramped 6 cylinder car at the end of its life cycle when for what, another ~ $5k, he could have an LS 430? You must REALLY want a three pointed star to show the neighbors to make that choice. I just can't understand it. Merc1, if you are out there, can you 'splain this one to me?
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Lexus has a cool website for owners (www.lexus.com). It will track maintenance for you, has a Q&A section, products you can purchase, recall campaign info (including the recent sludge problem) etc. Check it out. You'll need your 17 digit VIN number to register.

    Anyway, I asked the question about updates to the NAV system for the 02 LS430. Here is a copy/paste of the response I got from Lexus customer service...
    ______________
    The first update for your Navigation System is planned to become available around October, 2002. The dealer will replace the Navigation Digital Versatile Disc (DVD) to perform this update. 2000 and newer model year Navigation vehicles are not eligible for free Navigation System updates. The earlier model vehicles were eligible for Navigation System updates because they were still in the infant stages.

    All Lexus dealers are independently owned and operated and will have different pricings for parts. Please contact your local Lexus dealer to obtain the pricing for the Navigation System update. I am sorry for any inconvenience this situation has caused you.

    If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

    Sincerely,
    Aya Nakahara
    Customer Satisfaction Representative
  • pcbrspcbrs Member Posts: 57
    Hey-

    My father and I got a Mystic Sea Opalescent for my mom this past winter. It was her second choice after one of the "dark" colors. But, once again, those colors show dirt, scratches, and swirls easily, so she decided on the Mystic Sea. It's absolutely beautiful, and you don't see too many of them around, so you feel a little unique. It also looks great even after 4 weeks without a wash. But, you should see it on an LX470, as your opinion may differ. As for me, I'm looking at a BMW 325ci, as my first "new" car. What do you think? I value the opinion of the members of this board. Thank you...

    Jeff
  • yamahar6yamahar6 Member Posts: 23
    I think that it is amazing that Lexus can nickel and dime customers when it comes to the updates.
    After all, how long would even the most extreme customer keep his car? Surely not much longer than twenty years. I think that Lexus should be able to foot the cost of the update disc every few years or so. It would even be ok if they simply just tacked on the future cost to the nav. option.

    Personally, though, before the LS with Nav., i simply used maps that were years old, so I am sure that I will continue to do the same with the current DVD.

    I think that Lexus is better than Benz when it comes to charging extra for what should be std. options. Eg., i think that on the 600 series Benzes, you have to pay extra for the parking control as well as the Distronic cruise control.
    With the LS it's std.

    I wonder why it is that Benz simply doesn't just make all of that stuff std. and simply add $10K to the price.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    They don't know any better. A guy in my parking garage who recently bought an SC430 never looked at Lexus until he looked at that car. He loves the car, thinks it's the best made car he's ever been in and loves the treatment he's getting from the dealer. When he bought it he tested the LS430 and was amazed at how great a car it was. He has a 4 year 98 S-500 lease that expires at the end of the year. He already told the Lexus dealer what color he wants when he takes delivery of his car in December.

    He's been a European buyer for the last 15 years and never thought to look at Japanese luxury. Now he may be done with the Europeans. Unless you give it a test drive you'll never know any better and end up badly overpaying for a much lesser car. What's even more incredible is some of these people are stretching themselves thin to buy that 3 pointed star. It's also amazing how many people that are still out there who wish MB and BMW still had the lux market to themselves.

    By the way I've decided I'm going to switch jobs at the end of the summer so I've already told my sales guy to get me into the SC430 and get me out of my Midnight Pine lease. I'll be back to busing into NYC. I love that SC430. My wife thinks I'm nuts and she'd never part with her silver LS430. But she does admit she'll drive it often if I can pull it off. I'll let you know what happens. It's several months off.
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    Congrats on the new job (although busing into the city sounds excruciating). Same company, or are you leavomg the nest altogether? If my wife had an LS, I wouldn't hesitate to get the SC430. But she drives an RX, which is a fine vehicle, but I really don't fit in it that well (6'2" 200+) and I can't imagine the family taking long road trips in that car. Maybe when my son goes off to college . . . . What are you going to do w/your kids? Those rear "seats" are ridiculous
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    New altogether. I wasn't looking at all. In fact I had committed to the three years on the current job within my company which required the driving and the third car. They laid out 90% of the lease cost of the LS430 I took so I in turn told them I'd stay the three years. The company I'm going with was after me at the time and now came back with an offer I can't refuse or I'd just have to be crazy to. It's in the same industry and it's to build a $500mln business out of something thats about $80mln today. Naturally they want to buy things and acquisitions is where the fun is. My company has become too mature. I love the entrepenurial stuff.

    I'll keep the LS430 to lease end if I can't get out of the lease. It's incredibly convenient to have a third car. But I'd love it if I can get that toy car to play with. With an LX470 and my wife's car I have plenty for family hauling. By the way that GX470 Lexus is coming out with looks great particularly with the dvd entertainment system. I may go there and save some money when the LX lease is up. So the SC 430, if I get it would just a personal car that we'd use from time to time and end up with only about 6-7k miles per year. I'd likely buy it at lease end with that kind of low mileage. Always wanted a lux sport car to play with. I think Ray Catena - who I deal with in NJ will do everything in their power to get me a lease switcheroo. But this is all end of the summer stuff. I'm just launching the process.
  • mrittermritter Member Posts: 10
    Just as ljflx states, he is lauching the the process for the end of summer, I have noticed that the longer you work on a deal, the better the deal becomes. You can always bargin better when you aren't up against a time restraint that the dealer knows about. I took about two months of constant pounding and working all the angles. This economy is such that dealers want to move cars. Don't fall for the, "I'm not making any money on this deal." The dealers are doing just fine. I buy from Germain Lexus in Columbus and they are doing just fine...
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    My 02 LS430 has that color with ecru interior and grey wood. It is a nice and unique combination. The only down side is the light color floor mats. I am now ordering a set of charcoal color floor mats to match the grey wood and dashboard.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    That's a great idea...ordering darker mats which don't show the dirt as much as the ecru. How much do they run?
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    Can anyone with the Ecru interior recommend a good cleaner? I have smudges, dirt, etc. (esp. on doors) that will not come off with mild soap and am hesitant to use anything stronger without a recommendation.
  • pcbrspcbrs Member Posts: 57
    jbianco12-

    I ordered a personalized dark grey floor mat for my mom last winter for her mystic opal/charcoal int. LS430. It has the Lexus emblem embroidered in the center with her name right below it. It's just as good, if not better than the factory mats, and looks OEM, although it isn't. It cost me about $125. Check out autoanything.com

    Jeff
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Here's the response from the Lexus.com website. Sounds like you can use just about any carpet cleaner.
    Also to: pcbrs --> Thanks for the tip on autoanything.com. I'll check it out. As long as lexus is suggesting a carpet cleaner like Scotchguard, I may just give it a try first. But it sounds like a pain the you know what that never really goes away.
    ________________
    Lexus recommends the use of Scotchguard type products on polyester material to help repel fluids, which could help keep fluids from soaking in and drying between the polyester fibers. Scotchguard type treatments are applied to the surface and will wear off at some point. Lexus does not use Scotchguard or any other stain resistant treatment at the factory.
  • grogman1grogman1 Member Posts: 76
    MRITTER
    Who were you dealing with at Germain? I live close to Columbus and haven't been able to work the deal that I'm trying to get locally and would like to try elsewhere..................Thanks!
  • cadizcadiz Member Posts: 1
    I just took delivery of an LS430 Parchment with Ecru interior. I did all the negotiating via internet and phone. Overall very happy with the car, except the light colored floor mats. With two boys they wont stay clean very long.
  • sweetspotsweetspot Member Posts: 3
    I have the 2001 LS430. I have had it about one year. I brought it into the dealer for its 15,000 mile checkup. The dealer told me that all 4 brakes were almost worn and that I could get 4-5k more on them at most. I was outraged, and really felt like the dealer was trying to rip me off.

    Has anyone else heard of this? I used to have an Infiniti Q45 and the brakes lasted to 60K before they had to be changed. It is exactly the same commute as I have with the Lexus.

    Do I really have to change the brake pads once a year? Any one else with experience with this would be appreciated.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Sure I can. Believe it or not, there are people who don't want a 55K car that looks like an Avalon that ran into a previous generation S-Class, nor do they want the totally detached-from-the-road feeling of the LS430. The E-Class is not cramped, and it's a great car. If that's the theory why would anyone buy any car around the LS430's price range (540i, A6 4.2, GS430) why don't they all just get LS430s??

    Some of you Lexus folks amaze me, always bringing up MB and BMW when nobody mentioned them in order to justify your purchase. That said, the LS430 is a fine car, but clearly isn't for everyone. The E-Class has long been praised for being just the right size and price and it's popularity shows that.

    Nickel-n-diming: Every luxury car maker does it except Acura. One upside to this is that one MB is not just like another MB. Every single Acura RL on the road is the same, either with or without a Nav System. Mercedes' cars, along with BMWs are more "custom" made than most. You don't see many identical cars. Yamahar6, maybe a S600 buyer doesn't want Distronic or Parktronic. Part of what makes the S-Class, 7-Series and even the LS430 so alluring is you can get them your way (gosh that sounds familiar). But, when did these things become standard on the LS430? Aren't they part of a gulp(!) 14K unseperatable option package, now thats beyond nickel and diming. Don't you have to get the Nav System to get the ML sound system on the ES300 or LS430? What about the guy who doesn't care for or doesn't need a Nav system, but wants the sound system?

    M
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    I absolutely agree. The LS430, which I have heard called an isolation booth on wheels, is definitely the car for me. My good friend just leased a Porsche Carrera. It's a great car but obviously we obviously have different tastes. Jaguar, Audi, MB and BMW have great style, but I chose the Lexus. The E-class interior was a little spartan for me and I wanted a larger car. I think the S-class is the best looking Benz to come along in a long time. Audi sells a 3.3 liter TDI A8 in Europe. Its diesel engine puts out about 230 hp and that car really accelerates. I personally hope that the competition between the various manufacturers continues so the next car I buy is even better than my LS430. I also hope that Lincoln and Cadillac become more competitive in this market.
    Has anybody seen the Maybach website? The ultra-high-end market seems to be filling out. The cars we are discussing a just 2nd or 3rd tier. Hardly worth an argument.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Haven't you ever noticed how often Lexus is brought up on the S board particularly in the past - nothing much going on these days other than the recent skirmish you were involved in. It's natural. Lexus VS. MB is destined to be the coke vs. pepsi of the auto world. Two great car makers competing with each other leads to endless comparisons. You read it through slanted eyes. I can make the very same statement in the opposite direction. I read Nealm1's statement as a common sense question not as a justification issue. Who cares about justification - you get that behind the wheel.
  • pcbrspcbrs Member Posts: 57
    Merc1-

    You can purchase some of the options separately, or at least that's what my dealer stated. The ML sound system, which is still the best I've ever heard, was a $1200 stand alone option on my mother's car. A 6 CD in dash speaker system is standard on the LS430. I can't believe a CD player is an option on so many $35K+ cars by MB. Do MB owners prefer casette decks? That's an extreme form of nickel and diming, of course. I'm guessing MB owners tend to be more savvy about technology.

    Jeff
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    whybuy1,


    Well that I have no issue with. It's the "how could they" question that's silly to me. The assumption is that you're a fool if you buy anything else in the 50K+ class other than the LS430.


    Maybach:


    http://www.maybach-manufaktur.com/d/language.html


    ljflx,


    Sure I've noticed Lexus being brought up on the S-Class board, usually during the shopping phase. The difference there is that S-Class or MB owners in general don't usually make the statement "they don't know any better" or "how could they purchase..." when referring to Lexus cars. You (my friend) and others are the mains ones that make those types of statements about Benz owners. You and again, others act like MB owners couldn't have possibly cross-shopped a Lexus and came away not buying one. The way I see it if Lexus was such the holy-grail of luxury cars it would be obvious without all the irrelevant talk and MB wouldn't even be worth of mentioning.


    pcbrs,



    Which model Lexus are you talking about, because according to their website the ML is only offered with the Nav system on the ES300 and LS430. What was that about a Correction???? A 14K option package is just ridiculous. What if someone doesn't want all that stuff? MB offeres greater customization i.e. you get what you want, nothing you don't want. I agree with you on MB and CD players, it's a downright shame for MB to not at least offer a standard single-slot CD player. Agreed. BMW and Audi have already done so however. But back to nickel and diming, Lexus does it just as much as Mercedes. They (luxury car brands) all do except Acura.


    M

  • pcbrspcbrs Member Posts: 57
    Hi-

    I have to agree that most of the luxury brands do nickel and dime a lot, to keep their base price low, except for Acura. As I'm shopping around for a BMW 325ci right now, I can see how BMW and MB are the worst about this. It's ridiculous how much one has to pay to get some options in a BMW. It's still a great car, so I'm considering a european delivery to save some money. Lexus is a more reliable brand, but I really don't like the IS300's interior design. Unfortunately, no LS board members have replied with advice regarding 325ci... I guess different demographics, but I prefer non-biased opinions.

    Anyway, I was just trying to correct the misinformation you seem to have about LS430 options. The website gives you a general idea of the options available and packages. My mother's LS430 was purchased in Hawaii, where a Nav is really useless. The ML was purchased as a standalone. Many people do this, for one reason or another. I think one owner just preferred not to deal with the touchscreen for audio controls. Before you judge these cars, check them out at a dealership and go for a test drive, or price one out with a salesperson. It's a fun experience, and you might end up buying one. My mom still absolutely loves her car. =D Hope this clears things up. See ya.

    Jeff
  • pcbrspcbrs Member Posts: 57
    Merc1-

    The same goes for BMWs. There are several options which are not on the website, but can be ordered on your car, if you know the option code. Did you know the BMW 330s can be optioned with power rear sunshades? Also, the exterior and interior colors are not "locked" into only certain configurations as suggested by the website. So my point is, you don't know what configurations are possible unless you go to the dealership.

    Jeff
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I understand that cars can be ordered different ways, maybe it's specific to certain areas. The website does require a zip code to "build" a car. But to say Mercedes nickels and dimes more than Lexus is just not so nor do I see where BMW is any worse than MB or Lexus, and BMW does have the almighty CD player standard nowadays. I have "checked out" these cars and I'll probably never ever want or buy a Lexus.

    M
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    (1) I have the ML, but not the nav. I also got mine w/o Link. Didn't want either and didn't have to buy them. But I agree that Toyota has always been aggressive in "bundling" options, something that annoys me to no end. (I would love to buy the rear seat cooler, which I would use regularly, but it isn't available w/o all that other junk).

    (2) My comment was not a MB v. Lexus attack, nor was it a suggestion that anyone would have to be crazy to buy an A6 or a 540. But even a partisan like you would have to agree (although perhaps not publically) that the E is nowhere near the car the LS is. I wouldn't buy an S for a lot of reasons, but you would have to be blind to say that it isn't a terrific car, but the S and the LS compete in a whole different world than the E. ALL I was saying was that a 6 cyl. E cannot compete at any level with the LS; it is a miracle of marketing and so-called "prestige" that MB can sell cars at this sort of premium. The S vs. LS v. XJ v. A8 v. 7 competition presents an interesting set of trade-offs and value judgments; reasonable minds can differ and I could hardly doubt the wisdom of any choice w/in this segment (although I might disagree with that choice). E vs. LS is a joke. If you seriously contend that the 6 cyl. E competes successfully with the LS, I have to question your objective detachment.

    And that tired old isolation chamber crap just doesn't work vis a vis the E; a 540 sport unquestionably handles "better" for hard driving than an LS (and better by far than the E); but I have driven the E many times, and I am just not buying your suggestion that the E handles better than the LS. Especially in that underpowered 6 cyl. configuration. Slower, smaller, less luxurious, noisier, and much less for your dollar. (The E55 is another matter altogether).
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well then I guess we're done then because the E320 is not underpowered at 0-60 in 7.3-7.5 secs. If the E320 is underpowered what is the GS300? You think a E430 or E320 Sport doesn't handle better than a LS430?? Well guess what they do. What does a car having a 6-cylinder have to do with handling, if anything the E320 Sport would easily handle better due to less weight compared to the E430 and LS430. And it's not all about handling, there is something called "feel" when it comes to German cars. Some people actually may prefer this over the detached sensation of driving a Lexus.

    I don't know why you and others can't grasp that the current E-Class was not designed to compete with the LS430. The LS430 is a S-Class caliber car. NOBODY IS COMPARING THE E WITH THE LS430. Nobody is saying the E is a better car. Again, not everybody wants the LS430 for many reasons, handling, styling, price etc. Whats tired to me is the quieter argument, when we're talking about a decibel or two at the most, yeah you can't hear yourself talk in the E due to the noise. Someone bought an E instead of an LS430, get over it.

    M
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    "NOBODY IS COMPARING THE E WITH THE LS430."

    "You think a E430 or E320 Sport doesn't handle better than a LS430?? Well guess what they do"

    "[T]he E320 Sport would easily handle better due to less weight compared to the . . . LS430."

    Hmmm . . . .

    But we can agree that the "E-Class was not designed to compete with the LS430. The LS430 is a S-Class caliber car." That was my point.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Oh boy here we go.....you brought up the E-Class in the first place. You tried to say that the person on the E-Class board was a fool for buying an E320 instead of a LS430. You sited the E320 as being underpowered, which it is not. YOU asked as to why anyone would choose a E320 over instead of a LS430. I told you that handling could have been one of the reasons. Period. Again nobody is comparing the two cars but YOU. I said it long ago when I had this same conversation with ljflx months ago that the LS430 is rung up from the E-Class. That part of your point was never arguable, but your assumption that anyone who buys an E-Class is making a bad decision is just that, and assumption, not fact.

    M
  • verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    Glad that merc1 survived his heart attack when the first LS came out... just kidding, Benz and BMW people didn't even pay any attention to it, the history of Lexus book I read at Borders said.
  • johng14johng14 Member Posts: 31
    Comparing the E to the LS is like comparing apples to oranges, the two cars are different. I test drove both cars and for my value, engine, luxury and comfort I went with the LS. Both cars are great, but it is up to the individual.
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    Here is where we are having a problem: you say "the LS430 is rung up from the E-Class." Agreed. No one should expect the E to compete with the LS (as you point out it wasn't designed for that purpose), and it doesn't compete in any category except for price. I agree that not everyone wants, needs, or can afford an LS, just as not everyone wants or needs a 6 br. house on the beach in the Hamptons. But if someone pays the price of such a house, and instead gets an otherwise lovely 3 br. house six blocks from the beach FOR THE SAME MONEY as the one on the beach, sounds to me like someone has been duped (especially if he or she buys the smaller house just so she can claim a particular zip code or P.O. address). This was not a rant on MB in general or the E in particular. It was simply an observation about MB's pricing policy and my own mystification as to how MB can get that much money for that car. That's all.
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    The Lexus lists for about $5,000 more than a base E320,and at that price,I like the Benz much more. But I agree,the E430 is not so tempting-I'd step up to the S-Class if I wanted a V8.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Does the heated seat option in the LS430 cover the seat back and bottom or just the bottom?
    Do the rear heated seats cover the seat back?

    If you get an option with climate control seats, I guessing that you don't need heated seats? Also, I'm guessing the climate control seats cover the entire seat?

    thanks in advance,
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    I am not trying to be antagonistic; I just want to know why you "much" prefer the E320 to the LS. Maybe its just a "never a Lexus" thing; I suppose I can understand that, since I very likely will never buy a MB because of its "heritage" and its ostentation (I would much prefer an A8 or a 7). If that is it, fine, we will just have to disagree. But if you really think that the E320 is a "much better" car than the LS, I would like you to explain why.
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