Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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Comments

  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Despite their friendly PR image, Toyota plays hard ball with individual customers. Some years ago the sending unit on my Toyota Celica failed (sending unit sends oil pressure reading to the dashboard guage). It failed on the highway, a thousand miles from my home. The car lost all its oil and the engine naturally sustained major damage. I was also holed up in a motel for days while it was repaired. It cost me thousands.

    I did some research and found that this sending unit was defective and had been replaced on the Supras. Toyota offered me a pittance and then when I hesitated they said, Ok, too late, we're withdrawing that offer and now you get nothing. Rude, arrogant.

    I took them to small claims court in New York, and the night before the trial their lawyers called me and asked how much I wanted. They gave it to me. They gave in because they probably didn't want any publicity about their defective sending unit and a possible mandatory recall. They also want to protect their positive image with the public and don't want that threatened.

    If you have a sludge problem with your Toyota and have changed oil regularly, go to the mat with these guys. Otherwise, they'll ignore you.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    I think you should test your theory with you car, to see if it is true.

    I personally prefer to throw my money away using synthetic and 5000 mile oil changes.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    You have the original rear brake PADS? I find that hard to believe, even if ALL your driving is highway driving.
  • jj35jj35 Member Posts: 283
    First - here is another article regarding engine sludge in Toyotas:


    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/february/20020211_dai_toyota.xml


    Second - I own a 2000 Sienna that developed engine sludge at exactly one year and 17,000 miles. I changed my oil three times during that year with the average being every 5,500 miles. The longest interval (the first) was 7,100 miles, but my driving conditions fit the 7,500 drain interval in my manual because I do not drive on dusty or dirt roads, do not tow or carry heavy loads, nor do frequent starts and stops in below freezing temperatures (the definition of the severe service in my manual). If Toyota is saying that sludge is not occuring in well maintained engines I think it is because they are defining maintenance conditions more strictly than their own manual. I had to pay $3,300 to get my engine "de-sludged" and am hoping to get reimbursed for this repair under Toyota's new Special Policy Adjustment for Oil Gel (engine sludge).

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    If you had the sludge issue at 17,000 miles and provide "reasonable evidence" and Toyota STILL turns down a re-imbursement, then I can't imagine who would getting the "Special Policy Adjustment"!!!!! Good luck!
    ~alpha
  • joemc3joemc3 Member Posts: 8
    Is this sludge problem found in the SE V6 sedan? If so I need to go back to dealer and cancel deal for father in law.
    I drive a RSX type S and change oil every 2000 or two months.I don't think I'll go near a Toyota after the previous post.
  • jj35jj35 Member Posts: 283
    According to the letter sent by Toyota, the Oil Gel Special Policy Adjustment applies to the 1997 - 2001 Camry, Celica, Highlander, Sienna, Solara, Avalon. It also applies to the Lexus RX-300 and ES-300.

    Check the Engine Sludge Town Hall discussion (found under Maintenance and Repair). This is pretty much 100 percent about sludge in Toyotas. Cliffy reported there that Toyota did not change the engines in the 2002 models. I am not sure why they wouldn't be included in the SPA if the engine is the same, except that maybe it is too early.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The 2.4 liter in the Camry is completely different than the outgoing 2.2L. The 3.0L in the SE V6, for example, is the same basic engine as the one in the SPA, but I believe Toyota probably strategically rectified the situation in the 02 models AND THEN announced the SPA, so as to avoid confusion and not kill sales of its 02 models.
    ~alpha
  • tkam0tkam0 Member Posts: 1
    Folks,
    I have 3500 miles on my 2002 V6 LE. I have noticed that at speeds of between 68-70 mph the engine revvs upto 3000 rpm. The ride also is not as smooth as one would expect at that speed. I also own a 93 camry which revvs upto about 2400 rpm at that speed. I feel that my 93 rides much smoother at that speed than my 2002. I am thinking about taking in my 2002 to the dealer to have them take a look. What do you guys think? Is this normal?
    Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Yes, the 3000 RPMs at 70 mph is normal. I have a 92 V6 SE and (as the engine and tranny have not really had a major overhall since 92, (revisions in 97 seem to be causing the sludge issue) but basic design is "OLD" (by todays standards IMHO), the 3000 RPM is normal. This accounts for the lower then ave MPG for the V6 compared top other makes. My new Buick 2000 SC 240HP is at 2000 RPM at 70 and gets 30.5 mpg on the highway compared to my Camry which the best it ever got was 27mpg I go 7,500 in oil change intervals, synthetic, now 142,000 miles. Back when they made a great car!

    On the sludge issue, well my problem is that if I purchase a new Toyota I will be required to have my oil changed every 3000--3750 miles if I wish to avoid sludge. If I purchase a new Honda or Amercan car I can get 7,500-10,000 mile change intervals and not be fearful of sludge. SO, is this a no brainer!!!!.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Well, I disagree. Although I continue to purchase new cars I have also purchased three used ones over the past 5 years and IMHO it is difficult to kill a good engine in under 60,000 miles if ave-decent service is done. One purchase at 49,000 (Chev), one at 30,000 (Merc) one at 57,000 (Isuzu). All checked for sludge by simply looking into oil filler area, mechanic inspection and a good looking over. All swithced to synthetic immediately upon purchase and did not have enigne problems with any, still have two of them
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Well, if frequency of oil changes is your only criteria for purchasing a car and you believe Honda's owner's manual (I see you don't believe Toyota's suggesting 5K intervals), then you are right, it is a no brainer.
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    For those thinking of buying a 2002 Camry, the question now should be: Will these engines eventually sludge up, too? That should give you pause, and I'm sure Toyota will obfuscate enough to confuse everybody as to just what the truth is. Caveat Emptor.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    What model of Buick do you have? Do you have the 3800 supercharged engine? How do you like the Buick? Did you consider Oldsmobile?
    Cliffy1 is right. Frequency of oil changes should not be your criteria for purchasing a vehicle. I still say 3000 miles and a oil and oil filter change go together. I do it myself and the cost is minimal. I do not change the oil myself to save money(although it certainly does), but because I know it will be done right and I enjoy doing it.
  • autonutsautonuts Member Posts: 138
    I would like to ask all out there about a lease question. On a 5 year lease, when do you think the dealer or dealers would let me out of it? Would I have to finish the whole 5 years or would I be able to get out of it in say 4 years without a huge penalty? I had some fees tacked on to this 2000 Camry from a previous car payment and this is why I had to stretch this lease out for 5 years. My payment is $310.63/month. I've learned my lesson about being lopsided on a car deal and don't want to do this again. My rule of thumb now is to not buy new unless I have a large down payment. But, more likely, I will restrain from buying anything over $10,000 again. So, I'll be buying used. Please comment if you have an opinion about my lease question. Thanks to all! P.S.- Honestly, I don't think the Camry is worth the money even though it is the #1 selling car. Too many sqeaks and rattles IMHO.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Are you driving with Overdrive off? In our 02 LE 4cylinder the car is cruising at about 80-85 MPH for the tach to read 3000 RPM. However, if you turn overdrive off, 65 MPH will also yield 3000 RPM.

    armtdm- Our Camrys ARE great cars. I just turned over 31K in our 2000 Camry with nary a problem, no sludging, oil changes at 5000 mile intervals. Almost 2000 miles on our 02 LE and not a single hitch. No squeaks, rattles, nothing. (Our last "first year production" Camry, a 97 had an intermittent driver seat sqeak and one RECALL)Will keep that car on a 5k service interval as well. (Note: the 2000 is a lease, the 2002 is a purchase. These cars are worth every penny, at least to us.
    ~alpha
  • rob133rob133 Member Posts: 24
    I have been following the threads on the engine sludge problem and I guess the Camry also has this problem.

    Why doesn't the 2002 Camry have this problem, did they make a change in the engine along with the new body style?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    read my post 2958
    ~alpha
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    What king of gas mileage are getting? What is the RPM reading at 70 mph? How does the 2002 compare to the 2000?
  • rob133rob133 Member Posts: 24
    Thanks for the response.

    Its amazing how many people have had this problem, I wouldn't expect that from a Toyota.
  • mandarinomandarino Member Posts: 9
    I need to sometimes hold my iginition switch a few seconds to over a minute for my 1990 to start cranking and start. Got a brand new sears gold battery. Any ideas,,,,Ignition switch? Starter?, sloeniod?
  • blueskiesblueskies Member Posts: 16
    This is my first post to this group. I've been reading your posts and appreciate all the good information.

    First, to tkam0 -- I have test driven two Camry LE V6s recently and both showed 2600 rpm at 70 mph. Even that seems a little high to me, since I'm used to the 3800 V6 in my '96 Regal, which loafs along at 2000 rpm at 70. Can't imagine why yours would show 3000, unless the overdrive was turned off.

    I was just on the verge of deciding to buy a V6 LE when this sludge news hit. (Thank goodness for this Edmunds site, or I would have never known.) It seems unclear as to whether Toyota is admitting any kind of a design or build quality problem. I'm so surprised -- Toyota seemed to have a rock-solid reputation for reliability. It seems that it's time Toyota made a public statemen about this, if they haven't already.

    Based on my test drives, I like the car. I'm looking for a sedan with better suspension and steering than my Regal (not a hard target to hit). I was very impressed with the roominess. The seat is a little shorter from front to back than in my Regal, but I elevated the front of it so my thigh was supported and it seemed fine. I like the feel of the car, the driving position, the head room, etc. I've been looking for awhile, and thought I had finished my search -- now this sludge thing.

    I do plan to ask both of the sales people I recently dealt with if they can give me any information on the sludge situation. I'll pass along whatever comes of that. In the meantime, I'll stay tuned to this group and see what develops.

    Thanks again for all your info. I'll try to contribute some of my own. I'm hoping this engine thing will be resoloved, because I really liked the car.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    That's the response you'd get if you ask any salesperson :)
  • vmaturovmaturo Member Posts: 71
    You can't be serious. They are looking to sell you a car. That would be the last place I would look for answers.
    The other day I was at Toyota looking at the Corolla and the salesman was showing me the "Timing Belt". Only problem was, he thought it was on the outside of the engine. It's amazing how little those people know.

    Rely on your own research. You're smarter than they are...........and of course you're not looking to sell anybody a car.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have the 3800 supercharged. Purchased purely for price, a 2000 Regal GSE sitting on the lot in Feb 2001, a 2000 model with 300 miles on it. This is a company car and I can drive anything for three years. Actually, engine really is pretty nice, good ride on highway, handles like a Mac truck in turns (some say it is the cheap OEM tires, like the Bridgestones on a Toyota) ) but overall quality good etc. Can't really complain.

    For the sludge conscious this has an oil change indicator light which triggers at about 5-7,500 miles. After the initial change at 4300 miles I am on a 12,000 mile change interval using synthetic. Oil analysis indicates that this enigne will do fine in this scenario.

    I don't buy a car based upon oil change interval but in todays market I would question any manufacturer that states 3,750 miles or sludge!

    I have a Toyota but would not purchase another for several reasons, there are other good options today, average dealer service (terrible knowledge of my car in the service dept) boring product line, and now potential sludge.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Hello! Have you missed out on the MR2 Spyder, the Celica, and the MATRIX??? The new Corolla is really snazzy as well.

    In answer to RPM questions, our 02 LE four turns about 2600RPM at an indicated 70MPH.
    You should note that higher altitudes will cause the engine to work harder to maintain a given speed, (because of thinner air) even if the driving surface is flat. So, there'd be a difference in RPM from my NJ driving experience compared to one in say, Denver.
    Otherwise, MAKE SURE that your O/D button is depressed, meaning 4th gear ISNT locked out. The 02 is averaging about 24-25MPG in a pretty much even mix of city/highway. The 2002 is a great car, an improvement over the 2000, MUCH peppier with the 4cylinder, less mundane in appearance, "contented" a bit better (although I miss the "auto-on" headlamps and articulating headrests), handling seems a bit sharper. My dad said it is the first Camry we've had that actually feels like an inexpensive luxury car. (He said the rest, including the one I drive, seemed more like plain family cars)
    ~alpha
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Check the distributor including the spark module, ignition coil, pickup assembly, etc. Check it when the engine is cold and hot.
  • elmoblatch1elmoblatch1 Member Posts: 134
    My guess is that like anything else, you will have to negotiate the early release.....I know that GMAC wants all the lease payments.
  • elmoblatch1elmoblatch1 Member Posts: 134
    Looking to hear from 2002 Camry owners to find out what you think of the Car...thanks in advance.
  • sam_beaversam_beaver Member Posts: 61
    I want to buy a 2002 XLE with side airbags and the 6-CD in-dash changer and nothing else (except floormats). That is, I want the "EJ" option without one of the value packages. Is that impossible to get?

    According to my local dealer, Toyota doesn't make them that way, and a special order could be rejected outright or take up to four months to arrive. They also want to charge me $1000 more than they would for a model they have on the floor (that is, $1000 more on top of the cost of adding on the 6-CD in-dash changer, of course).

    Is it really that hard to get a special order? Is Toyota really not making XLEs with the in-dash CD changer and without a sunroof, leather, and aluminum wheels? Is there really any reason I should have to pay an additional $1000 markup for requesting a special order?

    Thanks for any advice you've got.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    4 months sounds about right for a special order. The dealer is charging more for the car because he always has the risk of you backing out of the deal, and he's stuck with a car few people want.
  • sam_beaversam_beaver Member Posts: 61
    So, does anyone know what are the chances of having Toyota approve a special order for an XLE configured with just side airbags (option BE) and the upgraded 6-CD changer (option EJ)?

    Also, is that configuration really so rare? Or are those prevalent elsewhere in the country other than the Northeast?
  • mandarinomandarino Member Posts: 9
    just had the distrib rebuilt and new coil 6 months ago by toyota. The car was running horribly until then until it warmed up. I'll check it out, anyway I'll try..... the last cap I looked under was a 1967 chevelle SS.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Yes, rare and Toyota dictates what the dealers will receive. They make more money if you have more options so that's how they build them.
  • sam_beaversam_beaver Member Posts: 61
    you can get them easily enough with just side airbags if you don't want the 6-CD changer. Why would that particular option be so difficult to add?

    Can you add an in-dash CD changer after-market? How much would that cost? Maybe there's a better forum to ask that question, but it does seem to apply here as well.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    You can add a CD aftermarket. Can you get the car with just BE from your local dealer?
  • blueskiesblueskies Member Posts: 16
    I couldn't agree more with your negative view of salespeople's credibility. However, asking them to explain the sludge situation is only a minor part of what could be a campaign to make Toyota tell us exactly what is going on. Eventually, only Toyota can fix this problem.

    IMO - the more Toyota hears from us, the better the chance they will be forced into coming clean. Questioning the service managers, emailing or writing Toyota execs -- they need to be held accountable.

    Unless I've missed something, the posts of this group are still inconclusive. Is there a design/build problem, or is it poor maintenance by owners? Is the V6 in the 2002 Camry more than normally susceptible to sludge buildup or not? Under what circumstances? It's fine to speculate on all this, and because of these postings I have some ammunition to fire at Toyota, but eventually Toyota is the only one who can clear this up.

    Again, I agree about salespeople and their credibility. I've even read that sometimes they are not even informed by the company they work for. They may not be intentionally evasive, they just might not know the facts. And it's very possible these Camry salespeople are in that situation. Still, it costs me nothing to put them on the spot, along with their general managers and service managers. If Toyota wants to sell these cars, they'll have to give us some answers.

    The sooner the better for me. I'd love to be negotiating on an LE V6, but this sludge thing has me leery.
  • sam_beaversam_beaver Member Posts: 61
    [Can you get the car with just BE from your local dealer?]

    Yes; they seem to make lots of those; in fact all XLEs seem to come with side airbags, and most 4-cylinder models come with nothing else. But I really want an in-dash changer if at all possible; I have a trunk-mounted one right now and I can't stand it.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    IMHO, the sludge problem is NOT a maintenance issue. As I've posted before, if there is a % of Toyotas "under-maintained", then you'd have to assume that there is a similar % of people also "under-maintaining" Hondas, Nissans, GM, etc, etc. So why aren't those other brands developing sludge problems?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    First, canadiancl, you are assuming that Honda and GM don't develop sludge when under maintained. That is a big leap. This whole issue is a bit baffling for Toyota because, according to their research, both Honda and GM experience the same failures at the same rate but there is no hue and cry over it.

    Next, on the issue of asking salesmen, it is probably a waste of breath. I work at a metropolitan area dealership with one of the more informed and well trained staffs, yet few of our guys have the slightest clue about the "sludge" issue. Our service department is VERY familiar with this, but the sales guys are not. A better suggestion would be to have a conversation with a service writer. I always recommend this anyway when buying a car to ensure that the dealer you select will be able to help you long after the initial purchase.
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    Important information from CBS News and Automotive News that should be of interest to any family members or friends who currently own or are considering purchasing one of these affected Toyotas, 1997-2001 Camrys are included:


    http://www.kmov.com/business/business_stories/NEWS_020219_toyota_engines.html


    Automotive News Article:


    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    hey everyone, there seems to be a "sludge issue" with Toyota engines.
    (sarcasm):)
    ~alpha
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    With all due respect, I think if there is a similar sludge problem with Honda or GM, we would have heard about it by now. I don't think there is a conspiracy against Toyota.

    I realize one man's experience cannot be viewed as conclusive, but we have owned many many Honda models over the years, including CR-V, Accord, Prelude, CL-S in the last 5 years. Because we don't put on a lot of mileage, you could say our cars are "undermaintained" since we tend to follow the mileage rather than the time for scheduled maintenance. But we have had Zero problem with any of the cars.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Makes sense! They are funny about how they're made, not much us wee folk can do about it.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The big difference... Honda never sold a car to Charlene Blake. You assume too much when you start to believe all the hype here at Edmunds over this issue. Believe it or not, the customers walking into our showroom know nothing of this because it genuinely is a VERY small problem that was blown out of proportion.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    You honestly think so?! So those news media in the links john339 posted in #2992 are all blowing smoke or just trying to create consumer panic? And Firestone tires blowing out and Explorers rolling over are also due to consumer mis-use?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Not many cars on these forums look rosey for the most part. They all have problems, and quite alot compared to the number of posts. This is where people come to complain so you get what you pay for.

    The best comparison in my book is to compare the number of vehicles in a dealers service bay (for repairs, not maintenance) to the number you see rolling down the highway with nary a problem. I've concluded there really are no junk vehicles out there, but they all have something here and there. I have a relative that was a regional service rep for one of the auto manufacturers and according to him all their cars were garbage. But that's all he saw and he agreed that the number he dealt with in comparison with the hundreds of thousands sold every year was fractional at best.
  • joel2468joel2468 Member Posts: 75
    that Honda a transmission problem in a small percent of its Accords about a year or so ago, and initially denied the problem, then tried to fix the problems with rebuilt transmissions, and finally new transmissions. The problem was remedied in followon years. I'm not throwing rocks at Honda...I owned 5 of them and they were (and still are) great cars, but not perfect. I have a 2001 Avalon I really like (probably has the sludge prone engine), but so far 16K trouble free miles. I agree with posts above that say all manufacturers have problems, both major and minor. Cliffy, what I am watching for is how Toyota handles this from now on. Do they walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I have my car serviced at the same dealer I purchased it from, and only that dealer. If I have a problem, I expect superb treatment, the same great service I already get. If I do, I will buy another Toyota in a year (Avalon or Highlander) from that dealer. If not, another brand will get my money, and I will write off Toyota for good, just like I have Volvo (I had one of those crappy 1999 S70s), and I will also discourage others from buying Toyota.
  • pciskowskipciskowski Member Posts: 155
    Sorry if this is a redundant post, but I have a squeak in the right side of my dash in or near the crack by the post. It seems to have stopped now that the weather is warmer, but it drove me crazy for three months (I bought the car in December). Has anyone else experienced this? There is also an occasional rattle from the back passenger seatbelt area.

    When I bought the car from a Toyota dealership the salesman told me that the car had been inspected for sludge BECAUSE THE CARS ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO IT and this one did not have any. It had 44K on it at the time. So at least one dealership admits there is a problem.

    Finally, can anyone tell me how to remove the rear speaker grills? I need to clean or replace one.

    Thanks!
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I agree with your reasoning. I too had a bad Volvo and never even looked at another. Same is true for Chrysler product, never owned another one.

    Poor product, poor servicce should equal not spending future money on the product. Wish more Americans would speak with their cash in this manner. Unfortunately, most just look at the price, Wal-Mar mentality and then expect great service when the product dies right after the warranty!

    As to Toyota, as noted on other boards, I own a 92. Would not purchase another though for following reasons:
    . Boring product line (nothing with guts and I mean HP)
    . The V6 engine design dates back to my 92 (great engine then) and they really screwed it up in the 97 re-design as the sludge indicates
    . Too many alternatives in same price range
    . Lack of customer support as shown in the sludge issue

    But, Toyota not in the same category for me as Volvo and Chrysler.
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