Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

steveb84

Yes, I am a lower-mid level manager, and I talk until I'm blue in the face about product knowledge.

But this is a Camry thread, so maybe we should get back to 8 track vs. cassette. LOL

cliffy1

There are good ones and bad ones everywhere. I have a suggestion for anybody who is shopping for a car to ensure that you end up with a good one. There are actually two ways to do this.

1. Call the dealership that you are interested in and ask to speak to a sales manager. Tell him the model you are interested in and tell him that you have had bad experiences with salesmen before. Tell him that you want a person who is professional, not a high pressure type and knows his product. The manager will know who to send the call to. He is also now aware of your existence and will keep on the salesman to stick with you.

2. Call the dealership and talk to the operator. Don't tell her you just want to talk to the new car department. Be friendly to her and tell her that you want to talk to a salesman, but could she recommend one that was polite and knowledgeable? I promise you, she knows who is good and who is bad. The only risk you run here is that she has a personal relationship with one of the guys. Other than that, you'll probably end up with the best salesman on the floor.

sebring95

cliffy: "she has a personal relationship with one of the guys. Other than that, you'll probably end up with the best salesman on the floor"

Hopefully not literally if he or she gets around that much:)

wain

most cold calls are rotated among salesmen

cliffy1

Yes, they are. That is why I suggested these two methods for getting around the rotation. With a rotation or a "blind phone up" (sales jargon) you can end up with the best or worst.

canadiancl

LOL. That's funny! The one she has the personal relation with IS probably the best one on the floor...and in the washroom...on the hoist...on the sales desk...

cliffy1

canoe2

If anyone has the information about TMV/ purchasing price for 2002 Camry SE in Canada, please post it. Thanks

canadiancl

I don't think TMV is compiled and published for the Canadian market. You can obtain invoice prices from site such as carcostcanada.com (for a fee)

lasher5

Perhaps I assume too much about the respondents to CR reliability reports but let me explain my theory of perceived quality and the self perpetuating myth.
Let us say that you rewarded yourself with a purchase of a Rolex watch. This is your first Rolex and you believe that it is of top quality and the reputation of Rolex is unquestionable. Within a month the watch stops and you take it back to the watch boutique. The expert watch repairman examines the watch and tells you that it is damaged and shows signs of abuse and lectures you on the delicate care needed to own and maintain a Rolex. You get the watch back and wear it occasionally so as not to damage this delicate instrument. A year later a survey comes from Rolex asking how said watch is performing. Do you tell them that it is a piece of junk that can not stand up to daily wear or that it is a great watch. Most would say it was great. A few months later you stumble on a web site www.rolexowners.com and find out that other owners of you model watch had similar problems. Now your perception of quality of Rolex has evaporated and, with the forum of the website, the vaunted reputation myth of Rolex vanishes in your mind. The myth will live in other peoples minds due to slick marketing. If you own a product with a good reputation and you have a problem with the product, then in your mind you are the lone exception. I buy Toyota products because their perceived quality means less depreciation. Also the local small Toyota dealer is very good and very honest. I could consult marketing specialists or psychologists but the best example is the fairy tale "The Emperor has no clothes".

tccmn1

Regarding an earlier post about the smoking problem and cracked seal; are they only 4 cyl. Camry's that have the problem from 1997? I can't answer from personal experience. I only know MY '97 4banger has the problem and that Toy will stand behind fixing it up to 60K warranty. After that, if you don't have the extended warranty, you're on your own. There were several other posts on this thread from owners who had the smoking problems too - around 55K miles is when you'll start seeing it if it affects you. Toy is well aware of the issue; as is my local dealer. PS: it happens in the warm summer weather just as it does in the winter in MN..

The problem with front seatbelts not retracting is not widely publicized, but, Toy Cust. Serv. at 1-800 set up a case # for me and said to have it replaced and send in the receipt,etc., and they would reimburse me ($150+!!). This, again, is my second one replaced in <5yrs. I may be overly picky, but the Rep. and local dealer understand the issue and how I've slammed the darn thing in the door a few times!! I hear THIS is also a 'popular' problem with Toys going back to the older models in the mid 90's...and as recent as 2001 Avalons - many people just accept it as "normal".

gp4

has anyone changed the oil in their 2002 V6 by themselves? what is the oil capacity?

talon95

Well, your scenario is very imaginative, I have to give it that. Whether it's realistic is a completely different story. You're always going to have people who don't have the time or inclination to do a lot of research about the quality of a brand, and they're going to go with the general perception. But people who run into major problems quickly drop such preconceived notions, and take on the attitude of "I don't care what thousands of others have experienced. I have a problem and I want it fixed now." So I find your theoretical scenario about the Rolex customer to be nearly as good an example of fiction as "The Emperor's New Clothes". In a society where people are increasingly intolerant of problems of any type, to the point that lawsuits are filed for the most insignificant slights, I can't believe that many people would tolerate such a transparent attempt to transfer blame back to them for a product defect.

So it seems we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it would be difficult to prove or disprove either of our theories.

armtdm

Your CR theory is interesting. My theory on dealerships that spout the Presidents Award or 5 Star Service Award are similar. NOT WORTH THE PAPER THEY ARE PRINTED ON. These dealers spend more on PR and customer suck up at sales time or service time then if they simply did the job right and poured the money into that.

New car purchases, the follow up call from the sales rep to see if you are having problems is simply their way to determine if you should get a follow up survey and/.or to solve your complaint before the survey arrives. . They don't want the home office to send one to the person that got crappy service from the salesman or the car was not detailed or ready upon arrival etc. Same with service dept. Truly rare to get a survey when the service was bad but a routine service, no issues, the survey is waiting for you when you arrive home. Or, their theory is that if you complain to the caller and it can be fixed then eventually when you fill out the survey you will as pleased as a pig in ****!

So, IMHOP these 5 star ratings are basically purchased commondities by the dealer personnel soft soaping the customer after the sale. Useless advertising!

8u6hfd

Should be around 5 quarts. I should be listed in your owners manual though. Get a filter from the dealership or Pep Boys. Most here prefer the Mobil 1 oil filter. I'm happy paying $5 for a Fram Toughgard filter (TG3614).

Note, the Fram ExtraGard filter ($2-$3) is crap.

bweave

I changed it last week. I used 4.5 quarts. Do yourself a favor and buy a collar that slides onto the oil filter, then use a socket wrench with an extension to turn the collar. No other type of oil filter wrench will work, there is no space in there to turn it. Good luck.

mfjj

Hi, I'm considering the 02 Camry. One newspaper review says "Be advised that the six-cylinder engine, with a compression ratio of 10.5:1, prefers premium fuel. Safeguards are built in so it will run on lesser grades, but at reduced power levels, which would be somewhat self-defeating."

Is this in the manual? Anyone cares to comment or expand on this? Thanks!

castleowner

This is one of the reasons I skipped the LEV6 in favour of the LE, even though the price difference was not much AND LEV6 comes with ABS+4 disc brakes.

For example,
1. LEv6 uses more fuel than a comparable GMv6 with similar or better hp/torque numbers (lower GM reliability of course).

2. LEv6 hp/torque ratings are for premium while GMv6's are not.

3. Torque curve from Toyota says v6 generates about 170lbft at 1500rpm, 180lbft at 2000rpm, 190 at 3000 and eventually rises to 205lbft at 4400. A GM3.8 is more than 200lbft for all rpms. The 4cyl vvti generates about 130lb-ft at 1200rpm, 145lbft at 2000rpms, and 162lbft at 4400rpm.

4. I test drove both 4cyl and v6 extensively and found that V6 feels heavier in the front end and more substantial. Gives it more stability at high speeds above 120km/h and accleration rarely needs a downshift and is very capable. But, I had to go back and drive the 4cyl again. The 4cyl is very very good around town, feels light and peppy. In my view, in this v6 most of the torque advantage in the lower rpms is getting absorbed by the extra engine weight.

Make no doubt, however, v6 is less noisy and IS faster than vvti 4cyl.

My verdict is that Toyota builds very very very good 4cylinders and the vvti 4 cylinder is a gem and that's why it is the bread and butter for 75% of Camry buyers.

mfjj

Well, this begs the question: what is the performance hit (and other ill effects, if any) for using regular?

Sorry if this is all explained in the owner's manual. I'm not an owner, yet

fredvh

You are smart for considering the Camry. I too am considering it along with the Acura TL, Infiniti G20, and maybe the new Corolla. Maybe someone will advise you what the 2002 Camry V6 owner's manual says. My advice is to follow exactly the owner's manual, especially during the warranty period which is 60 months/60,000 miles (powertrain-engine). The 4 costs less to buy, costs less to run, and the insurance costs are less. It is true the 6 runs a little smoother and has a little more power but from what I have heard on the reviews the 4 is more than adequate. "Consumer Reports" magazine stated the the V6 runs on regular fuel when they tested it in the February 2002 issue. If the manufacturer of the V6 required premium then "Consumer Reports" would have stated that in the review. It also said that the difference between the V6 and the I4 was approx. 4 mpg. I hope this helps. One of the automobile magazines did an article on gasoline a few months ago and I will see if I can find it for you. I have seen reports that say use the cheapest gas that you can find but I find that ridiculous. A $20,000+ vehicle should be taken care of well and not be given whatever is cheapest.

sebring95

is that the power difference using regular over premium is only really noticable when running hard, particularly high rpms. For normal driving, the V6 on reg. fuel still feels very strong, quiet, etc. You lose about 1-2mpg on regular as opposed to premium. If you are only driving 15K per year, it's only saving you maybe $100 per year. If you're that concerned about performance, then it would certainly be worth the money.

On mine, I used to drive them 50K per year, so I was saving about $25 per month and they had more than enough power for the most part. 200K miles on one, 150K miles on the other and no problems so it doesn't appear to hurt anything. If I was concerned about mpg, I'd probably buy a 4cyl on the '02 models. The older 4cyl's weren't even in the same ballpark as the V6. The new ones still don't have that overall V6 satisfaction, but they are darned good.

pat

Edmunds.com has just published their 2002 Premium Family Sedan comparison.

Check it out by following the link in the "Helpful Links" box on the left sidebar of this page.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

mackabee

The recommended fuel octane is listed in the owner's manual on page(s) 182, 275, and on the back cover. I'll quote "1MZ-FE engine: UNLEADED gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher. For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher is recommended."

: )

Mackabee

tccmn1

Well, I took my Camry into the local dealer for this major job covered under warranty (smoking problem and oil in the cylinders on start-up. They had to keep it over-night to get more parts, but gave me a loaner to use. They appear to be falling all over me trying to keep me satisfied....don't know if it helped contacting 1-800 Toy C.S. before-hand. They're also taking care of my seatbelt too. Should be just like new again after this deal. I'll keep those of you concerned about this issue informed when I get the car back. Again, the cracked seals are only covered to 60K miles unless you have the 100K Toy Extra-Care coverage....which I have and am glad I do!

chiangj

In Toronto, it is around $34500 (on the road price) from cars4u.com.

prisc

Hi folks!

I have a 4dr 5spd '96 camry DX (w/ roughly 75K miles) that I inherited from my wife about 2 years ago when we bought a mini-van. The car has been very reliable and has required hardly any maintenance. My only compliant is that I can seem to get comfortable in the drivers side seat. I'm not sure if it because we have the baseline model(i.e. no electric seat or lumbar supports) or because I'm over 6' tall. I seem to always be fiddling with the tilt steering and the recline angle on the seat to find a comfortable position. I've even try using a lumbar type pillow, but nothing seems to work.

I actually though about selling the car because I have over a 45 minute ride to work each day. I just can't bring myself to sell such a reliable car and picking up car payments right now.

Has anyone else experienced a similar problem with their camry ? I've been thinking about replacing the driver side seat but don't know if that's practical or cost effective. I haven't contacted a toyota dealer about this problem in fear of hearing their $$$ solution.

If anyone has replaced their seat can you make any recommendations.

Thanks!!

vcheng

I ended up using one of those gel pads as extra padding to save my rear end. I have a 2000 XLE v6 and somehow the seat cushion has become really uncomfortable. And no, I do not weigh 350 lbs!

jf01

Does anyone else with a 02 V6 XLE hear a "thunk" after first starting the car? It happens after backing out of the garage, then shifting to drive. A second after the car starts moving, there's a thunk. It sounds like it's coming from the transmission but not sure. It's very faint. Usually occurs when the car is "cold" after having been in the garage overnight. Anyone have anything similar? Doesn't seem like a problem, but might be something to be concerned about...?

canoe2

Thanks chiangj for the website info.

clhawkins01

From what I've heard from others in this group, it's the traction control system engaging/self-testing. My 02 V6 SE does the same thing.

sam_beaver

My dealer tells me that my request for a special-requst 6-CD in-dash changer to be added to a base model 2002 XLE has been approved by Toyota. So, either this is not as difficult as some dealers have suggested, or else I was lucky (at least it appears that way -- I guess I shouldn't say anything until the car actually arrives, as I'm told it will in mid-April).

cliffy1

Glad to hear it. Did you use the same dealership you started at or did you find another? In any event, it sounds like somebody finally figured out how to do the FRS change we discussed.

wanna2002

My 2002 V6 also "thunks" upon first going into "drive" - I was concerned, but apparently this is "normal."

Also, in regards to the oil changes, the Toyota dealer told me to bring it in every 3,750 miles. I will definitely follow that schedule, but am a bit disappointed and the required frequency.

Oh well, love the car overall!

sam_beaver

I used the same dealer from the beginning, and yes, it sounds as if they used the FRS method you mentioned. As I went through the process with the dealer over the last two weeks, I was thinking about your info on special orders and figuring that it sounded like that's what they did. Thanks again!

john339

"in regards to the oil changes, the Toyota dealer told me to bring it in every 3,750 miles. I will definitely follow that schedule, but am a bit disappointed and the required frequency"

There is discussion on this topic in the Engine Sludge board. The best people can figure is that problems that the Toyotas have been having with sludge is because they are "maintenance sensitive" and require more frequent oil changes than what the factory actually recommends.

In contrast it is interesting to see what Honda recommends for their 2002s, Honda actually says many owners waste time and money doing too frequent of oil changes (more frequent than every 7500 miles).

From Honda's owners manual - "Following the "severe conditions" guidelines won't help your Honda unless you really do drive under those conditions."

"Many vehicle owners waste time, money, and oil on unnecessary oil changes, for example. The quality of engine oil and filters has steadily improved to keep pace with the requirements of new engines."

sosad

When I purchased my 2001 Camry in April of 2001 the service department said I should have my oil changed every 7500 miles - they also told me I could actually go 10000 miles before a change. However, they also told me that I could use the lowest octane gas in my car. Well, in the 10 months or so since I've owned the vehicle the oil change recommendation went from 7500 to 3000 and the gas has been upgraded to medium to premium gas and only from "major name" stations. Apparently, my Camry is so "sensitive" because I live in the South. That's what corporate told me....the root of all of my vehicle's problems boils down to gas in the South. Wow! I sure am proud that I own a reliable Toyota! If anyone is interested in a 2001 Toyota Camry , I'd love to get rid of this one.

tccmn1

I posted on the Highlander thread about using 87 octane on IT's V6 (220HP) engine and the reply was - don't need to use premium. So, I hope their not giving you a bunch of junk saying you need to use premium. It may help a little in performance, but not a requirement.
Also, I DO change my oil every 3K and think for $25 a pop, it's cheap insurance to error on the side of fresher oil than letting it in there for 7.5K miles or more.

wain

In the outboard motor world most problems are blamed on:

bad gas
salt water
owner abuse

castleowner

I got the sulfur smell 5-6 times inside the car already in 2 weeks of owning the 02 LE. Only happens when moderate acceleration is "interrupted".

Dealer says this is "normal" and attributes to Ontario's "dirty gas". This implies to me that using a higher octane grade might/should solve the problem, but still doesn't explain why the smell is entering the vehicle in the first place.

It seems to me, from other messages, that for v6 or 4, Toyota will not "require" premium due to affects on marketing/sales, but if you report a problem, they will surely blame the gas.

I think every Toyota dealer should have a filling station selling special "Toyota" grade gas, so that owners could check if they are bluffing.

cliffy1

You need to include a bit of context (as usual) on your description of the Honda service statement. They have a much stricter definition of "severe" use than does Toyota.

jrct9454

Going to premium will not solve the sulfur smell problem. There are multiple complaints from Canadians about this - the sulfur content of the fuel is clearly higher, and this is causing the smell. You can experiment with different BRANDS, but going to a higher octane is unlikely to do anything but inflate your fuel bills.

aditkoff

I didn't get the extended warranty. The biggest consideration was for the accessories and not the camry itself (of course I would have benefited for the bumper-to-bumber coverage). I am alittle concern of the nav system failing. If the screen goes that means possible no radio, cd or tape. If Toyota offers it again, I think I may get it. btw, great car.
Andy

aditkoff

I have the same situation. I asked my service rep. It’s the front disc brakes. The pads may be in contact with the rotors. After starting the engine, the calibers get "touched" to guarantee the pads are away from the rotors.
Andy

jrct9454

...the pads are always in light contact with the rotors - that's the way all disk brakes are designed. More likely, the system is testing itself by applying and releasing pressure very quickly, which makes more sense.

john339

It seems Toyota was warned by the Toyota Dealer Council about the Toyota engine sludge starting 3 years ago.

This is a quote from the WSJ.com March 4, 2002:

"Buzz Rodland, a Toyota dealer in Everett, Wash., and former head of Toyota's National Dealer council, offers a different view. He says the dealer council began raising concerns about oil sludging with Toyota managers three years ago."

tccmn1

Well, my 97 Camry 4 banger is still in the shop after a week. I was told today that they are machining the head now and making sure that the valve guides are going to be good to go. The machining is taking place at an "off-site" location...? They're letting me use a 2002 Corolla as a loaner...can't complain so far. Hope I see my car again someday though. Maybe they're taking the engine somewhere to analyze it - ha-ha...seriously, I stopped by the dealer after hours tonight and we couldn't find my car! I'm not worried....too much yet anyway.
The dealer HAS been supportive. I think there's more going on here than they're letting me on to. The service manager said that a bulletin' about smoke/sludge problems will be forthcoming shortly and many Camry's will be recalled or affected in some way. I believe this expense will be covered. So far I have seen nothing to confirm this...but that's what he mentioned to me.

And to think this blue smoke on start up was "normal" via two local dealers last summer...my, how stories spin differently once rumblings start.

I really believe Toyota will try to save face in all this adversity...they darn well should too!! GM and Ford and DMC would do the same I would think.....well, I hope they find my car soon:))

8u6hfd

Blue smoke = check the valve seals. They tend to be a common problem in 5S-FE Camrys.

cliffy1

You can buy the Toyota warranty at any time up until your basic 3/36K expires.

elmoblatch1

Looking to buy a car in May.....can't decide between the 2 cars. The engine sludge issue scares me a little...I wonder how much of that is attributable to people thinking they can drive a car and NOT change the oil every 3000 miles. To me, changing the oil every 3000 miles is a no-brainer....it costs $25 bucks at Jiffy lube...most folks spend more for car washes.

The Altima is less expensive for more car.

Toyota seems to have a better track record.

Both cars are recently remodeled....

Anyone else here gone through the same comparison ?

civicw

Check out the Jan issue of Consumer Reports for a good compare between the Camry/Altima. Personally, to me the Altima is a little rough in the edges. And although the new Corolla is smaller, have you considered it as an alternative? I found it to be a very refined and viable alternative to the Camry for my future needs. IMHO, these so-called mid-size sedans like the Camry/Altima are becoming big boats.