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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall



  • sounds like your mother continues to be a major source of news for you.

  • "The downside of VW TDI in winter is how SLOOOOW they warm up"

    that's because it is a diesel. tractors' diesel engines are so efficient that they actually have to cover the cooling vent in the winter to help maintain engine temperature.

    one reason diesel engines are so much more efficient is that they run at much higher temperature - if you recall from your physics classes, thermal machines are more efficient when the temperature differentials are bigger.

    the issue that high temperatures creat is that deadly NOx they produce, and that's one of the biggest difficulties facing lean burn gas engines too.

    the US's phylosophy, until recently, has been that they didn't regulate CO2 and considered it "harmless". Instead the US focused on other gases like NOx and particulates. thus, the US emission standard is far more stringent than European ones and many of the diesel engines legally sold in Europe couldn't be sold here.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,786
    here in central ct, 1 dealer had an ad in the sunday paper, 10% discount from msrp on a 22k car.
    on tv, one dealer had some ad's encouraging people to schedule appointments to get their cars taken care of, explaining they had expanded hours with a 1-800 number to call.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Don't forget to check out the all-new LaCrosse and upcoming Regal. I've been buying Buicks since my first car - a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. My wife has a 2005 LaCrosse and has yet to experience any trouble with it.

    When Better Automobiles Are Built, Buick Will Build Them! :shades:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Yeah, and they never have recalls either. :P

    Anyone buying?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706

    Commercial Off The Shelf.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 318
    Nice. Another GM fanboy in a Toyota discussion. Says something , doesn't it?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Maybe he just needs a laugh and Toyota fills the bill. :lemon: :shades:
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    as you already know from a other posts, I had two Buicks, each of which I had extensive problems with so you have to take what both lemko and I say with a grain of salt; he has had positive experiences with Buick while I have had negative experiences with Buick

    now this just doesn't apply to Buick, but Toyota, BMW, etc whatever the auto manufacture you need to talk with a group of people about a car make and then take the consensus of the group to have a good indication of whether your going to have a good or bad experience!

    lemko's good experiences wih Buick is canceled out by my bad experiences with Buick so together we are no help; talk to several other people who have Buicks and then see if the overall experience is positive or negative!

    this is a good example with Buick to apply to the current Toyota accelerator and brake issues! talk with several people you know who have Toyota's and see if they have had problems or not and if they would continue to get Toyota's or not; the overall consensus of the group will tell you whether or not you should stay with Toyota or buy one for the first time!!
  • berriberri Posts: 7,615
    Speaking of Buicks, I don't mean to be politically incorrect but, is there any demographic breakdown regarding the UA incidents with Toyotas? It seems to me that Camry and Avalon are kind of replacing the departing Crown Vic and Oldsmobile/Buick vehicles as the blue haired driver vehicle of choice? A lot of those old car babies seemed to crash into walls and stuff and its always the "accelerator stuck" isn't it, so maybe that's now coming into play with Camry/Avalon/etc.?

    As for Toyota incentives, unless new unexpected issues develop, if you're looking for a deal and want a Toyota I'd jump on the soon to come incentives because its doubtful there will be fire sales down the road. Didn't really happen to Ford Explorer and likely won't here either.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The fat lady hasn't sung yet....
  • Back in 1990, my brother-on-law owned a 1986 loaded Buick Skylark 4dr 4cyl. When the car hit 55K miles, it started to give him all sorts of problems. He had the motor replaced twice, transmission repaired once, water pump replacement, exhaust system behind the cat converter replaced. and multiple other smaller issues with this car before he got rid of it at 90K miles.
    The car had a beautiful digital dash, and the stereo sounded great, but it was breaking down frequently. Our mechanic used to joke about how my brother-in-law is paying for his(mechanic) kid's college bills with his Buick's repairs.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 9,633
    Back in 1990

    That was twenty years ago.

    Back in, say, '71, if someone would have said they wouldn't buy a new Impala because their '47 Chevy was having problems in 1950, we'd have all laughed and considered the person a neanderthal. But now that most of us are older, we find ourselves making similar statements.

    That was then. This is now. Toyota's worse now than in '86; GM's better now than in '86.

    Bill P.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    After only 8 years my sisters Toyota dealer told her that the bottom area was so rusted that they didn't think it wise to drive it much longer as it was near being unsafe and that was 84 and I don't think Toyota's were any better than GM or Ford back then either so the 86 Buick is problems are at least fixable and was safe to drive.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    edited February 2010
    It is simply foolish to not use technology because of your fear of not being able to control it.

    No it is common sense not to entrust your life to a device you know isn't essential, that you can operate yourself. For instance would you go sky-diving if the only way for the chute to deploy is if you have an altimeter, and this computer-control system that deploys the chute? That's the only way you can deploy the chute, no backup chute either. Or would it make more sense to have the altimeter system, AND a backup manual-pull-cord? And maybe a 2nd chute? Even if the computerized system fails about the same as you're chances of hitting Powerball, it is still foolish not to have a manual backup system.

    Oh and I thought of you while watching the news today - guess what the high-tech military "missed the chimney" by about 1,000 feet in Afghanistan. :( Not very reliable if you ask me, or the Army who shut it down for review of what went wrong. The Afghan civilians are certainly fearful. :P
  • mdan1mdan1 Posts: 9
    Unfortunately you need to factor in the recession we are in and the fact that cars are not selling well anyway. I think short term Toyota will have to offer better than average incentives for most vehicles they sell; otherwise they will sit on dealership lots.
    IMO, Toyota will be forced into great incentives just to scare up showroom traffic. As it stands now Toyota does not make the most exciting cars on the market, the only thing that keeps them going is the usually great build quality and higher than average resale value - well that's past tense for now.
    If I were in the market for a new car today (which I am not) I would only purchase a 2010 Toyota model if it came with an unbelievable deal. It is no secret that overall quality has slipped in the past 10 years or so, but that is the trade off when you put trying to be #1 in sales in front of quality.
    I have owned several Toyota's in the past 15 years or so, and for the most part have been satisfied with the autos I have purchased. Would I buy one again? Maybe, but it depends on the competition and what they are offering at the time and price comparison.
    Toyota needs to refocus on quality and building the most trouble free cars on the market and they will be just fine; otherwise there are many other cars on the market that offer more driving pleasure and reasonable reliability.
    Get your heads out of your a**es Toyota!!!
  • There is a good article in this week's Time Magazine about how Toyota was (is) basically in denial about their vehicle problems. "The reaction to the problem is a very Japanese thing", "Toyota does not understand how sensitive the American public is to automotive safety issues", and "Toyota is famous for having an arrogant culture" are some of the comments made that seem to explain a lot about the current situation.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,089
    mdan....good points. Well, I'm certain the unemployment rate isn't helping much. But, those who are in the market seem to be flocking elsewhere. Ford just made a surprise profit (a healthy one, at that). I didn't see GM's numbers. But, they've stated they expect to pay back our tax dollar loan sooner than expected. Chrysler...well, they continue to slide. But, both Daimler Benz and Cerebus put them in such a big hole, it's still not clear how long it will take for them to turn it around. I know they're getting some new products from Fiat (and a redesign of at least the Jeep Grand Grand Cherokee, 300 and Charger) within the next several months. So, that should be the beginning of a turn around for them.

    What is clear, with Toyota's continued slipping quality, their safety woes, and falling resale values, the competition is eating away at their market share pretty dramatically. Toyota's in a situation where the dealers have over a 100 days of stock on hand. That's a big problem for them, too. I'm not even certain larger rebates will clear that amount of stock out. For one example, Toyota could quit making Camrys for a month....just shut down production for 30 days, and they'd still be overstocked (provided that people actually will buy those same Camrys as it's a tenuous bet that they will).
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • dturrdturr Posts: 70
    I think that there is a great deal more to come from Toyota. They have known that vehicles are not safe to drive and they need to come clean.
    I check many UK and European sites and they are saying just this.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,615
    If you think the recession will further dampen car sales, then the other companies will be upping incentives too. Before the Toyota mess, a Camry didn't seem to list for all that more than some of its rivals like Malibu, so I think that may limit the downward pricing on it. This should hurt outfits like the southeast Toyota distributors from some of those car and dealer packs though and that would be a good thing!

    I'm thinking that if electronics are truly the UA culprit, then it will be inevitable that UA starts appearing more on other makes as well. I guess time will tell, but people need to look at the stats and the fact that experiencing UA is still a pretty low probability of occurence.
  • jkobty2jkobty2 Posts: 210
    Well it has taken longer for people to finally realize that Toyota has been cost cutting on its part quite substantially. The earlier problems of sludge some years ago were just the beginning. My 1999 Korean Daewoo built leganza is still running like new 11 years later, original engine, transmission, even all the lightbulbs are still working, an item that is usually requiring replacement in the first year of ownership on a lot of new models.
    Your best bet of quality these days is to buy Hyundai, KIA, or a Daewoo built GM car such as the upcoming cruze. Checked out the new Sonata at the autoshow and no other carmaker had anything that came even close in style, content, quality, and value. Another few cars that looked promising were the Buick Regal based on the German Opel, and the Ford Fiesta and the 2012 Focus all coming from Europe. Nothing the Japanese automakers had looked close to interesting.
    BTW, my wife just had to replace the entire front end on her 2007 Acura TSX because of rack and pinion complete failure. Apparently transport Canada already has enough complaints about these that Honda has extended the warranty on it. It affects most of their modes including the CRV, civic, etc...
    Honda did not issue a recall yet on these, but just give it time. I think they are banking on the fact that the failure is gradual and you will notice the steering squeek long before it becomes a safety issue, still at some point it will cause some disaster for someone who drives with the music and on and do not notice small things (I noticed the problem, my wife did not).
    At that point it will be another massive recall for Honda.
    In their favor though is they did not give us any hassle fixing everything under warranty even though the car had passed its bumper to bumper warranty mileage.
    It was about a $4000 fix including as well the water pump (yes failure after 2 years) unheard of. Japanese car quality.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,111
    That was then. This is now. Toyota's worse now than in '86; GM's better now than in '86.

    Logically, yes. However LOTS of people will swear off a brand if they get crappy quality. That is reality. And that is the long term cost of crappy quality. It doesn't really matter if it makes sense, it's still the truth. Any manufacturer needs to consider that if/when they cheap out on their products.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    great point you made about quality, check out my post in another forum below which proves your point quite nicely!!
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    that kind of thinking is exactly what got GM into the trouble they were in which led to bailouts and bankruptcy!!

    check out the link to my post below and you'll see that I had trouble with GM for almost 30 years going all the way up to 2005, which the last time I checked wasn't 20 years ago!!! :P
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,089
    tlong....people will put up with a lot of stuff in their cars. Two things the don't tend to overlook are quality and safety. Toyota has failed at both, miserably.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The "reflash" was not only a BTO upgrade but also a fix for a firmware bug that was/is resulting in UA incidents...??

    How, who, would ever know...??
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,089
    wwest....that's what I think we all would like to know....especially Toyota owners. What exactly is the toyota dealership doing to an owner's car with the reflash. I think it's fair to say that they're installing the brake over ride workaround. But, what else does the relfash do?

    If it were my car, I'd want to know. But, as best I can tell, toyota isn't giving up that information.

    I kind of wish a Toyota service dept technician at one of the dealerships would wander over here with the answers, as opposed to trying to squeeze that information from toyota corporate (who still doesn't seem to be forthcoming).
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    In reality Toyota/etc may not know, and even moreso may NOT want to know.

    Someone at NipponDenso, Denso US, would undoubtedly know but having the information get to Toyota/etc would be questionable.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    edited February 2010
    Why aren't our vehicle manufacturers being asked to follow the same safety standards as many people have at work? Here's a good explanation of what the standards are.

    The emergency stop function must operate as either a category 0 or category 1 stop, as determined by a risk assessment. It must be initiated by a single human action. When executed, it must override all other functions and machine operating modes. The objective is to remove power as quickly as possible without creating additional hazards.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,111
    tlong....people will put up with a lot of stuff in their cars. Two things the don't tend to overlook are quality and safety. Toyota has failed at both, miserably.

    Toyota is teetering on the precipice and in danger of squandering a lot of their 40 years of repuation. However I would not agree that they've failed miserably...YET. When you look at the track records of Toyota vs. GM or C they are not so miserable. But they need to get it together quickly or they will be.
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