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Acura RL

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Comments

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    So far as I've seen, Comptech is the only one making a few parts for the RL.

    Which brings me to the question, why do you want cross-drilled discs on your '99 RL? Just curious.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    I'm hoping they can dissipate heat better and hopefully not warp as fast as the ones that came with the car. Funny, I get the exact steering wheel shutter feeling from my old Integra and I don't brake hard at all. There is little to no brake dust on my front wheels. I read that when Edmunds tested the Acura CL, they had the same problem when braking.
  • Why does almost every article i read about the RL state in varying degrees imminence that the RL Need rear-wheel drive and a V8. The front-wheel drive/ V6 layout saves tens of thousands off of similarly-equipped, similarly-sized vehicles liked the 7-series, S-class, LS, or A8. So what's the big deal if it doesn't have the rear-wheel/V8 setup?
  • I think it is just a way for people who purchased v8/RWD to justify spending 10K more who and then realize that the RL is by far one of the best if not the best values in its class. In Long Island, there are not that many roads where you can appreciate the acceleration of a V8 since as soon as you get some speed, you will probably need to brake for traffic. Plainy put, the RL is a great car and a great value!
  • goralgoral Posts: 140
    "RL is by far one of the best if not the best values in its class".

    I really like my RL, but unfortunately the car doesn't really fit ANY class. It can't run w/ the big boys (LS4xx, BWM 740s, Infiniti Q45, etc...) yet it's better (more refined, better equipped, larger) than the near luxury crowd. That's a tough position to be in (and the sales figures show this).
    $5K year-end rebates/incentives (such as last model year) are very nice for bargain hunters, but they kill the resale value of the car.
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    I've been hearing that 03' model year is when the all new RL debuts. This new model will go to RWD finally and boast a mid 300 h.p V-8 with a higher performance all-wheel drive version offered. Pricing is going to be much higher than the current model $50-60K projected.

    The current model is a hellava value and an excellent well made car for the money. I'd love to see Acura bring back the classic and sporty styling that made the Legend famous. I'll never sell my 95'GS Legend that still looks fresh up to today.
  • dkd1dkd1 Posts: 1
    I am new to Edmunds Town Hall, but am considering purchasing or leasing a '02 RL. I agree they seem to be in a category all their own, but also that they seem to be a good value. I have never leased before, but the current program of $499 for 39 months with $1500 down and residual of $21000 is very tempting. I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Welcome to Town Hall! It's a good place to learn, listen, and have fun.

    You don't say whether you're familiar with leasing or not, but the Acura RL offer is outstanding, imo! The money factor on the lease figures out to be around 2% interest (I'd give it to you exactly if you wish); the 12000 mi/yr allowance is reasonable, the overage at .15/mi is reasonable. BUT: I disagree with the idea of paying the cap cost reduction money. I lease with no money down and take a slightly higher monthly payment as a sort of insurance -- say you pay the $1500 and, pulling out of the parking lot, get wiped out by a semi ... the money is gone. So I prefer to let Honda take that risk.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    imo, is:

    1) "All the other luxury cars have one, why can't I?"
    2) "It sounds so sweet."
    3) "When nobuddies lookin, I can peel rubber easy."
    4) "It costs more, and I can do it, so I'm better than you. PHBBBLTT."
    5) "Even though they're almost as good off the line, and top end, I'll blow the V-6 weenies away in mid-range!"

    Of course when Acura decides to take the challenge as I'm guessing they must, the cost to the consumer will put the car in the price range of the others, but about $5000 to $7000 less ... say, $50k-$55k. According to my salesman friend, Acura won't want to leave the $40k gap open and will continue to offer a version very much like the current RL -- a relief to those of us in the snow country who actually consider value.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    I'm with you. My '87 Legend L coupe got "totalled" ten days ago. Luckily, my daughter was only "shook up" and not hurt, but the car's had it. Insurance paid $3700 net after the $500 deductible, which was at least $1000-1500 MORE than what the car was worth in running condition. Even Edmunds pegged its "private party" value only around $3600 in good-to-excellent condition. Not bad for a car with 170K miles and bought for $4500 4-1/2 years ago. Of course, a lot of maintenance went in, but that's water under the bridge.

    So, I'm looking at a p/u truck to replace it, but, then again, maybe another RL? My used '96 is purring along with 14K put on over the last ten months and my kid says she looks like she "belongs" in a car like this, more so than an Integra!
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    prophet, but they have made some nice changes since '96.

    Or: ask the salesman if they think it would void your warranty if you bought an MDX, then cut the back end to make a bed. (Be sure to watch his face! : )

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    Of course, she'd drive the '96. A new one would be for me! You're right about the improvements since the initial '96 models, like the extra horses. On our little 604 sq. mile island, a V-8 is over-kill. The Lexus LS430 would run $15-18K over the 3.5RL.

    My '96 is the best car I've ever owned so far, as well as the best deal I've ever engineered. It goes beyond "value for the dollar." I am totally satisfied with this vehicle, as is everyone else in the family. Friends and clients want to know if I can find them another deal like it.

    My salesman friend always calls me about the MDX, especially after the test-crash results were publicized. My "better-half" preferred the '01 Odyssey EX we bought in April over the MDX for both the roominess and $$$ difference.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    What did the '96 list for? Were they discounted? Just curious

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • himomerhimomer Posts: 59
    I don't understand why Acura can't offer a V-6 front drive for about the same price as it is now and keep the current 3.5RL nomenclature and also offer a V-8 Rear drive/AWD and name it the 4.0RL similar to To the aurora 3.5/4.0, but that's just my opinion.

    I am anxious to drive the 02'RL and feel the changes, 97' was the last one i drove and i loved the car, but the suspension was just too soft for my town, although the ride may be great on long rides it would be too much roll for the city.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    Of course, she'd drive the '96. A new one would be for me! You're right about the improvements since the initial '96 nodels, like the extra horses. On our little 604 sq. mile island, a V-8 is over-kill. The Lexus LS430 would run $15-18K over the 3.5RL.

    My '96 is the best car I've ever owned so far, as well as the best deal I've ever engineered. It goes beyond "value for the dollar."

    My salesman friend always calls me about the MDX, especially after the test-crash results were publicized. My "better-half" preferred the '01 Odyssey EX we bought in April over the MDX for both the roominess and $$$ difference.
  • hunter001hunter001 Posts: 851
    There are 2 V6 FWD models in the Acura line-up which are about the same size as the RL and a lot more powerful and sportier - TL-s and TL. Why would Acura need one more of the V6 FWD models in their line-up ??!!! Especially since the TL/TL-s along with the MDX, are currently Acura's truly successful bread-and-butter models...

    The flagship of any luxury car company ought to be something extraordinary and not merely a "value alternative" with no real identity or market positioning. There is a big void in Acura's upper-end and that void is certainly not filled with the V6 FWD 3.5RL. Does anybody in their right mind truly equate the Acura RL with something like an LS430 or a Mercedes S-class ?!! Ever tried to understand why ?

    My advice to Acura would be to shed cars like the Front-wheel-drive 4-banger RSX etc from its line-up and introduce a car (sedan/Coupe) based on the excellent RWD Honda S2000 with a small 2.5 - 3.0L V6/I6 and go head to head with the BMW 3-series/Audi A4/Lexus IS300. Also, re-engineer the RL to be a true player in the Luxury segment.

    The only car truly deserving the "extraordinary" label in the Acura line-up is the Mid-engined, Aircraft aluminium alloy bodied HAND-BUILT NSX. But time and competition have long passed the NSX by....also, the common man does not even know the existence of this $88,000 car in the Acura line-up.....this again is another car that sorely needs the "V8 treatment" since the only manufacturer that can get away with a V6 at that level is Porsche.

    Take care...AH
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    There are reasons why the RL is so much more expensive than the TL that are not as obvious. Please check out


    http://www.hondanews.com under technical specifications on the RL. There is a lot of technology that goes into the RL from the F1 Program.

  • himomerhimomer Posts: 59
    I understand what you are saying to an extent, but if acura kept the current car and changed it to RWD and added an RWD/AWD V-8 version there would be a car to fill the price gap, IMHO it doesnt make sense for a company to make cars for $20K, $30K, then $50K but if the do what Audi did with the A6 offering different drivetrain configurations then they could fill the price gap
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    If you read back up several posts, you'll see a post or two that confirms your good judgment, based upon the opinion of the head salesman at my local dealer. His argument is that there is, indeed, a market for the current RL, or something with fwd like it, but that the new one will move up to compete more visibly with MB, Lexus, etc. His notion is that, especially with AWD, it will be priced out of reach for most RL customers. Obviously there's no way to be sure just now, but I agree with you that it makes good sense and will be welcome to all of us who want/need the 6.

    The thing I don't understand is why they don't update the V6 or revise the design to include the Type-S V-6. The current engine is smooth as silk, but it is an old design.

    Btw, I think you'll like the changes in the '02. Post and let us know what you think. You might have them check the tire pressure before you go out -- lots of lazy folk let cars go out for tests without changing the pressure from the 40-50 that they're shipped with and that much pressure, obviously, makes a drive difference.

    Take care.
    Joe W.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • It seems as though a lot of individuals are concerned about the number of ponies under the hood. Granted the TL-S has more ponies, but I will take the ride and comfort of the RL anyday of the week. Little things make a difference, like a place to put your left foot, missing on TL but was on the old CL. Small thing yes, but more ponies under the hood, less comfort in the cabin.

    I am sure that with the direction Acura is going there will be 2 models of the RL. The body will change, the standard features will increase and I am sure there will be a RL-V6 with a few more horsepower and yes for all those that dream of a V8 I am sure there will be a RL-Type S.

    Bottom line is this, when you have the RL as it now sits in a market of its own it is hard to tamper with the experts who knock the RL for no V8 but dollar for dollar there is nothing that touches it. As has been mentioned earlier, park a Lexus, BMW, MB and an Acura all V8's side by side in the neighborhood and guess what, the Acura owner will not grab the most looks and they will all be the same general 50M plus. Given the current model and ameninities it offers, deep inside he will smile the most as he is getting far more bang for his buck.
  • hunter001hunter001 Posts: 851
    I agree that some interior materials are of better quality in the RL as compared to the TL......but realistically speaking, that is the easiest aspect in a car, that a car company can remedy. Exterior looks and quality of interior materials can be changed with minimal engineering.

    Also, could you please explain the "technology that goes into the RL from the F1 Program" that you mentioned ?

    Basically as I understand, the RL uses an old tech non-variable valve timing engine with a 90 degree SOHC configuration, which pretty much explains why Honda is hardpressed to obtain any more HP from the engine. Also, this 90 degree configuration is inherently un-balanced in a V6, and require additional mechanisms to quell the un-balanced vibrations. A 60 degree high tech variable valve timing configuration of engines like the TL/TL-s on the other hand, is naturally more balanced and runs smoother. The 90 degree configuration, incidentally would be ideal in a V8 DEFINITELY NOT in a V6. Some examples of the 90 degree V6 configuration would be the Oldsmobile Aurora V6, where GM wanted to develop the V6 on the same assembly line as their V8 engines, and took the cheap way out (to not have to design 2 entirely different assembly lines) by maintaining the 90 degree configuration of the V8 in their V6.

    Considering the technology in both the TL-s engine and the RL engine, logically I would presume that the "F1 program" has benefitted the TL/TL-s and not the RL !!!

    Also, while much cheaper cars like the TL/TL-s use a 5-speed sportshift adaptive automatic transmission, the "Flagship" soldiers on with a 4-speed automatic !!! Can you name one other "Luxury car" that plods along with a 4-speed automatic ??

    dbeattie1:

    I agree that ponies alone do not make a car...but then could you explain why Acura has to resort to liberal "Incentives and Rebates" to move a car like the RL, while cars like the TL/TL-s are selling like hotcakes ? Hell, the RL from what I understood, was being sold for roughly 32K (Non-navigation model), BRAND NEW, end of the last model year....does not bode well for future resale of the car, does it ?!!

    In 2000, I was originally on the lookout to purchase an RL, but after looking at the TL and driving it extensively, I simply could not bring myself to buy the RL. I bought my TL with Navigation, and paid cash on the spot !

    During a trip a few months back in the TL (> 2500 miles), this mercurial and powerful cruiser (lots of reserve power at all speeds)kept on the highway all day long at 70-90 mph and the overall mileage during the trip was 32mpg !!! This was with Automatic climate control on the whole way and with 4 people and associated light luggage ! That is Honda Civic mileage territory, I might add. Even at the end of the trip, I felt thoroughly refreshed and not in the least bit tired. During a particular trip, during which I kept the TL at a steady 70mph with cruise control on, the car returned 36mpg !!! This is in a large car with a powerful V6 engine. Normally the car gives about 22-24 mpg during a 40%city/60% highway type of trips.

    Later...AH
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    Here are some of the features that I appreciate in my RL that are not available in the TL. The current RL has more but I don't have those features so here goes...

    Auto headlight system
    Power tilt/telescope steering
    Block forged connecting rods
    Honeycomb Floor Panels (F1)
    Microfinished Crankshaft (F1)
    4-coat/4-bake paint finish (99 as the last year of the 5-coat finishes).
    3-stage induction system for optimal torque at low, med and hi rpm.
    Adjustable rear head rests
    Padded leather armrest on each door. This may be small, but I use it everyday and love it! One of the best features in the car. :)
    Longer reliability record. My brother in law's 99TL had fit/finish body panel problems and so did many other owners during that first production year including loose interior door trim. When I got my RL the TL was just being made and only offer 4-sp sportshift.

    Things I like in the TL not offered in the RL

    60 degree V6 design
    260 hp Type-S engine
    5-speed auto

    In the end, I would still get the RL if I could get it at invoice or less over a TL at MSRP. I excluded the usual std features like heated seats and mirrors, HID, etc...
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    I did some more research on my shutter steering and checked out the pads and rotors. The rotors looked in excellent condition and the pad was slightly warped but not significant. One thing I heard was that if the lug nuts are not tighen evenly, you would also get this problem.

    So I wiped off the rotors and brake pads reinstall the calipers and used a torque wrench to tighen each lug nut to about 80 ft/lbs. So far, the shuttering hasn't come back. I'll still replace the pad in another 10k miles when I hit 75k. Those NISSIN pads seem to last a long time.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    I'd agree with just about everything you say, hunter, except for the conclusion. The RL and TL both have engines descended from the meaningless market phrase, "F1 experience." But the RL's is an older design. If I were more of an engineer (someone help out?) I'd know why the RL design has made it so that the engine couldn't be up-dated to twin cam Vtech etc.

    But certainly, Honda recognizes the mistake they made in going toward the soft, cruiser type of design in the mid-'90s with all of their models except the Integra and have 'corrected' the mistake with new designs up and down the line up except for the RL which they've only re-tuned to this point. Certainly, there will need to be a new RL if it is to stay on the roster, as well as one further up the lineup with a V8/AWD.

    And while the idea of the TL appeals to me, I thought about it and remembered I spend most of my time in pretty heavy traffic, not on the twisties, or on long highways, not on country roads, and decided that the RL really fit the bill. Btw, besides the TL I also had on my list the MB320, the A6 4.2 & the Volvo S80. Each was either overpowered or overpriced or had reliability issues that kept bringing me back to the RL.

    So based on my experience, while I agree with what you're saying, I come to a different conclusion. But it's only my experience (not ignorance).

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • himomerhimomer Posts: 59
    I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels that way, i probably skipped that post. I want to go drive the 2002 this weekend, but i have to take a 90min drive just to get to the town, then i have to deal with really heavy traffict because the dealer is near one of the best malls in our state, and since school started on monday it will be horrible to get over there, but if i dont go now i doubt i will go before October.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    The new TL is a great car. And well-priced for the features you get, not unlike the Odyssey EX minivan when compared side-by-side with the competition. I took my sister-in-law to check one out and she was willing to plunk down the $6K more than the Accord EX-L V-6 would have cost ("everyone has an Accord" was her observation). The 225 HP is more than the 210 in my RL.

    But, the RL has the roominess that I like. I get a "closed-in" feeling in the TL and Accord EX, even more with their respective coupe offerings. A newer RL with the V-8 RWD layout will no doubt please some of those who are "dissatisfied" with the current V-6 models, but at what price? Surely, it will crash the $50K barrier. There will still be the need to bridge the price gap with the TL-Type S in the low $30Ks.
  • The TL is a nice car with power to burn, but it's still a stretched, dolled up Accord. I like the RL for the size. I have had 3 Legend/RL's (90,93,00). I will be really disappointed if the high $$$ V8 RWD RL creates a gap that is not filled.

    I paid 33k for my left over 2000 RL in Dec and I think there is no better value around. I just drove it by myself 800 miles across the midwest, IN to KS. What a joy to drive. No fatigue or sore butt.

    After I got home I started driving my 99 Accord V6 coupe. Nice car, but not an Acura....
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Posts: 956
    Did'ja know the interior size, legroom, headroom, etc., is almost identical as you go from the TL to the RL? Strange, huh? I think the apparent extra room in the RL is a result of the more vertical A-pillars. The slant of the TLs mean the windshield ends up closer to your face.

    Did you happen to see the review of the TL in the latest edition of Auto World. They rarely get excited or rave about anything, and I've never heard them give the kind of praise they had for the TL Type-S. Even I, who love the car, wasn't that excited by it.

    Just curious, phild_mason, but I'm guessing that your 00 had some demo mileage on it?

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    Now, that's a DEAL, even with some demo miles! There's the Lexus ES-300 for around that price, but underneath it all, you know that it's a gussied-up Camry XLE for about $6K more.

    OTOH, people "dissing" the RL for it's lack of a V-8 and alleged "ho-hum" styling is what has made it available at such bargain prices. I think I'll keep it under my hat and let everyone else pay stratospheric prices for the competition. And yes, the angle of the windshield does affect the feeling of roominess. My history with Legends include the inaugural non-leather '86 sedan, '87 coupes (twice), and '91 LS sedan before my '96 RL.
  • You got me pegged. My 00 had 1000 miles on it, however I could have gotten brand new ones for the same. I wanted the Ruby Red Pearl. I love that color. They dropped red in 2002. Too bad, but makes mine more unique.

    As you stated the TL and RL have similar interior specs. In fact the TL has more cubes because of the center console. The angles do make a difference and the RL feels bigger.
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