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Acura RL



  • I posted here a while ago when I first saw the RL Canadian pricing on the Canadiandriver wedsite. At C$69,500 (which works out to about US$53,500), the RL is approaching the likes of Lexus GS430 and Infiniti M45, both of which have V8 engines. I currently own a 2001 3.2CL Type S and was looking to move up to the new RL. However, at C$69,500, I am very tempted to consider the new GS or M45. Another vehicle in consideration is the Infiniti FX45 which also has AWD and loaded, it costs around C$67,000. I am not sure where Acura wants to position the RL but I always thought the Acura brand stands for outstanding cars at great value. That's why I bought the CL when it first came in in April 2000. I was hoping the same may apply to the new RL but I am not so sure.
  • It could be that Acura is making really great cars. The RL is exceptional in many ways - even if you're looking for things to hate it still comes off as an excellent car. It's fine to be critical but part of that is knowing when something simply deserves praise.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    In price comparisons, don’t forget features. Otherwise, at $40K, the current GS300 sounds like a steal compared to a BMW 530i at $56K. That is, until you realize what you get for the money, starting with cloth interior and halogen lamp. 2004 Lexus GS with all the frills approaches $46K. Add $2K for AWD, and there you go! A GS300/AWD w/NAV would cost as much as GS430. To most buyers, V8 isn’t a must have, and they seek the six banger.

    The current Lexus GS430 starts at CDN$ 69.5K in Canada (USD 48K) but besides 4.3/V8, do you get the stuff that RL comes with? AWD isn’t an option, audio system upgrade and navigation (available?) would increase the price too. These are standard features in RL.

    Comparably loaded (premium audio, AWD, Navigation system), the new Lexus GS300 and Infiniti M35 would likely cost about the same. Ultimately, it is the rest of the characteristics of the car that will help a buyer decide. Even there, I suspect, the RL will ride better than M35 but not as softly as GS300.
  • The cursory mention of such competitor as BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz was not intended as a comparison test, only an expression of amazement that the RL (or any Acura really) could hold its own against the traditionally sportier European brands - something that would have been inconceivable just four years ago.
  • Since the list price for my 99 RL was about $44,000, with navi, a $48,000 list price for the 05 seems pretty reasonable. Considering inflation and all the extra goodies on the 05, especially.
  • True, but dealers used to sell 99-04 RL significantly below MSRP, sometimes as much as $5K off. It will be interesting to see what kind of street pricing we will see on the new RL...
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Past experience in this market on pricing is all about supply and demand. My hunch is that the new RL sales will "take off" and you won't see discounts until the market slows.
  • shotgunshotgun Posts: 184
    "...My hunch is that the new RL sales will "take off" and you won't see discounts until the market slows..." Agreed! Based on the preliminary press, I believe demand will be "hot" - especially from previous RL owners (like myself) followed by others who will be unable to resist the price/performance/value factor offered by this new "superstar" automobile!
  • A decade-and-a-half ago, one of the car mags ran a comparison between four personal coupes: Acura Legend LS, Mercedes Benz, BMW 6-series, and Lincoln. As I recall, the BMW tied the Acura, but only because the editors added a new category, CACHET, which the Acura and Lincoln fell short in.

    Regardless of how good the 2005 RL may prove to be, there will always be those who will criticize the lack of a V-8, "soul" (whatever that is ..... CACHET?), and other factors which may not be quantifiable. We even see comments here about the color offerings.

    And, no matter what the price is, especially in comparison with the other marquees, there will be MANY who will still regard it as TOO HIGH!

    The fact is that some people are just plain CHEAP and wouldn't recognize a great value even if it bit them in the rear. Others are just barking and will never buy an RL, or any of the other higher-priced competitors.
  • That small increase in price is quite reasonable, and if this car stays true to form, then I'll strongly consider one.

    I'm torn between an SUV and the new M45 from infiniti. Honda has a strong reputation for quality and I know this new RL will be a great car, but the styling is to safe, and this car looks far far to much like an Accord, heck it doesn't even look all that much bigger then an Accord. This would be a great design for the next generation Accord, but for Acura's Flagship? I question Honda's safe design of this vehicle, especially when the new TL was so greatly done. If honda wants this puppy to revive the days they saw with the popular Legend then they're in for a rude awakining.I've no doubt that the new RL will chip away at the sales of its competitors, but in the end their is nothing head turning about the exterior design. Honda did a safe job, but I'm confident that the new RL won't be a massive hit, especially along the lines of the FX and G series from infiniti.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Sometime around March 2005, the 530iX will arrive with new 3.0 I6 generating 258hp (torque still around 220+). Take it for what it is worth. The AWD 6-cylinder luxury sport sedan market is getting a lot of attention...
  • >I'm torn between an SUV and the new M45 from infiniti.<

    If you are looking for a great driving, highly reliable and pleasurable SUV experience, may I recommend the Lexus RX 330. My parents own two RX 300s and they have been flawless to drive and maintain.

    I believe that Honda will be coming out with a new, hybrid SUV in the spring of 2005. I understand that this new Honda SUV will be smaller than the Acura MDX, probably closer in size to the RX330. Indeed, the profile photo I saw of the prototype SUV looked a lot like the Lexus RX 330.

    I share your styling reservations about the new 2005 RL and am also considering the 2006 M45. I am hoping that I will be able to preview it first hand at an upcoming car show this fall.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    Yes, having seen the demo in person at the NY Auto Show, I think there is a lot of accord-ishness to this car, specially the coupe. But in person, the car is just more squatter and larger. All said and done, its diet cola with the aftertaste of accord... err... i mean...
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    Legendman, please prepare yourself for a fairly similar looking car in person, minus the difference in details like tail lights, front face, but overall profile, stance, shape & form of the M are very similar to the RL....

    this is just my impression from the NY Autoshow.

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    that the price was $47,890... It's like pricing something at 9.99 to make it look so much smaller than 10.

  • I just spoke with my salesman. The "See and Drive" scheduled for yesterday is now supposed to happen Sept 16. Which probably means no demos until early October.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Based on the preliminary press, I believe demand will be "hot" - especially from previous RL owners (like myself)"

    I'm not so sure. I think a good many RL buyers bought one for different reasons than Acura is using to promote the new one. The new and old seem to be very different cars.

    Instead, I think Acura is trying to place the RL as an upgrade from the last TL-S.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    Even if the new RL is perceived by some people as having an Accord flavor to it, that's been pretty much the case for most manufacturers that have both a mainstream and a luxury division.

    For example:

    - I've seen several comments that the M45's styling evokes much of the Altima, and I'd have to agree.
    - At least up until now, there's been much sharing of styling concepts between Toyota and Lexus.
    - The previous gen Passat and A6 were extremely similar, and I see that the new Passat for next year will have a variation of the dreaded "gaping maw" grille featured on the new A6.

    You have to wonder if Mercedes and BMW would be able to escape this syndrome if they had mainstream divisions (closely aligned ones, that is... not counting Chrysler).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Styling with lesser models within the family is unavoidable. Audi and VW share too many styling cues, regardless of how hard the company tries to differentiate them. Toyota Corolla/Lexus GS and Toyota Avalon/Lexus LS430 have their family genes showing up as well. The same is true for Nissan/Infiniti. $200K Maybach owners must have something to say about it sharing cues with a $20K A-Class.

    So, anybody arguing based on premise of styling similarities is being a little too narrow/conservative in approach.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I thought styling similarities were supposed to encourage brand identity. Now that's a bad thing?

    FWIW, I don't see any "Accordishness" in the RL. It share too much with the TL and TSX. Those are the first vehicles that jump to my mind when I see the RL. And I think that's a good thing. Better than having a bunch of cars with nothing in common.

    Robertsmx - Good example with Audi. I have to measure the wheelbase on their models to tell the difference between the 4, 6, and 8. (That is changing a bit now.) And they do share an awful lot with VWs.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    I find the Audi's wonderful cars but physically uninteresting, largely because it looks like they were all made together, just stretched different lengths.... the same was kinda true with the last generation BMW 3, 5, 7's... but atleast they were kings of the road with no equals.

    I have nothing for or against the accord hints in the RL. As I've said 5 million times by now, I think the RL looks stunning in darker colors and ridiculously BLAH in lighter colors. And from my personal observation and pictures I took at the NY Auto show, those who think they will laud the M over the RL are setting themselves up for disappointment, because as I said in an earlier post, their overall shape, profile & stance are remarkably similar.

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Oh, I like the Audis, too. Sure, they copied the overall shape and design cues from car to car, but you have to give them credit for picking a great design to copy!
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    While I do not see many similarities between the Accord and the RL, I do not see anything inherently wrong with establishing a common design theme between models.

    If you do subscribe to the common design theme, I think it's generally considered appropriate to "imitate" the design of a "higher level" automobile. Accordingly, the RL design should filter down to the Accord, not the other way around. You would not expect the Audi A8 to be styled with Golf design queues.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    I wonder how the handling of the new RL will be compared to the new M5?
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    If the M5 isn't significantly better, BMW better head back to the drawing board... fast.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    The Acura TSX -- a version of the European Honda Accord, sold in the United States -- is one of the vehicles involved in a recall issued by Honda over the vehicle's lights. Honda says it will recall 158,187 cars sold in Japan, the United States and 39 other countries to fix the problem, which arises from tape used to seal the wiring leading to the vehicle's rear lights. About 40,060 Acura TSXs could be affected by the problem, which occurs when, after repeated closings and openings of the trunk, the tape and wires fail and the rear lights stop working. No accidents or injuries have been reported due to the problem, a spokeswoman told Reuters.

    What is going on with Acura?
  • >Honda has a strong reputation for quality and I know this new RL will be a great car, but the styling is to safe, and this car looks far far to much like an Accord, heck it doesn't even look all that much bigger then an Accord. This would be a great design for the next generation Accord, but for Acura's Flagship? I question Honda's safe design of this vehicle, especially when the new TL was so greatly done.<

    I wonder aloud if the wheelbase for the new 2005 RL is the same as for the current Accord. They did make the new RL shorter, right? Since prior RLs were not moneymakers for Acura, might they be trying to save some money and standardize on existing wheelbases?

    I am not up on the chassis and frame specs like some of you guys. If the the frame/chassis for the 2005 RL is new, might Honda use the same new frame in subsequent Accord sedans?
  • I am coming back after a while and read through the last few days posting coming to the conclusion that as more many others I'll agree to disagree. So here I roll my opinions........

    I got the preliminary 2005 RL 'First Drive' from sources different that the Edmunds and CD (M... Tr..., to be exact). So at least I can tell you this much: all of the editors got the same positive impressions. I believe the one I read was very balanced, did not trigger any 'reading in between the lines' for example and just noted that it was better than 'three teutonic rivals' available at the Western Virginia site were all these first drive did apparently take place.

    Bottom line is that my wish got answered. This is a car you need to hop on and drive, SH-AWD cannot be described according to spec etc... Take it for a roll and it will tell you how and why it is going to be the standard bearer for sport luxury sedans...period.

    I know looks are important but we have not seen enough. I think several people pointed out at the different impression elicited by dark vs. light colors, the best pictures I have seen are posted in a japanese site for a dark blue RL that is simply breathtaking (too bad I cannot cut and paste).

    The styling arguments in so far are all valid it may have similarity to some Accord themes but I see more of the TSX/TL with the back being a departure from any of the ather vehicles but blending in (no surprise for me this is the new Acura styling!! I would expect by now after seeing the BMW take on the 5 and 7 or the Cadillac (etc.) production line series this should be a R.I.P.type of issue).

    The only very odd bit of info I got across instead was a reference to one of the editor (for a Consumer......magazine) stand on AWD. The guy thinks that developing these technologies is a way of feeding into irresponsible driving.....Could not understand why he could not see that as for stability control, brake assits, ABS etc, these technologyes have helped the automotive world to emerge from prehistory into modernity adding a ton of safety to our daily commute. I guessed he missed his true calling to a serene life in the closest Amish County.:)

    P.S. Please let mek now if anyone wants to check out the japanese site (hopefully someone that could also read japanese so he/she could tell us what is happening in the japanese automotive press)
  • I see alot of Accord in the new RL, which is ok. The Accord is nice just not very stylistic. I like the Accord, I hope the RL is alot bigger. I think the bigger engine, tech features and the SH-AWD will be a nice enhancement. Acura has a nice lineup of vehicles, but it is a tweener brand, until they come up with the V8.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    "I thought styling similarities were supposed to encourage brand identity. Now that's a bad thing?"

    I hope that wasn't how you interpreted my post, because that wasn't supposed to be my message.

    For one, I agree that I don't see the "Accordishness" in the RL, even as an Accord owner. That's not to say that those who see it are wrong, just that my viewpoint on that differs.

    For two, I agree that the brand identity is a good thing, and I feel that even Acuras that share common platforms with Hondas in general look sufficiently distinct from their Honda counterparts. Good examples of this are the MDX and the current TL.

    So far, it seems the the press reaction to the new RL, including its styling, has been pretty positive. That's a good sign, and it leads me to think that most people will consider the RL's styling to be a success. Sure, it has some harsh critics and they have every right to be as harsh as they wish to be, but that's the case with any car.
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