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Acura RL



  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Motown - That's not entirely true. The hybrids you may be familiar with are indeed designed to please the greenies of the world. But there are other uses for the designs.

    Toyota, for example, is using an HEV V6 in the Lexus RX and Highlander to provide V8 power. Honda is using an HEV V6, which will crank out more power than the 240 horsies already found under the Accord's hood. And because electric motors crank out gobs of torque, they serve well for your purposes.

    I doubt very much that these performance-tuned hybrids will get the 40 mpg that Jchan mentioned, but they will serve a dual purpose.
  • theo2709theo2709 Posts: 476
    I agree the RX400h looks like a real winner. The only real problem with hybrids is unkown reliability and maintenance costs. Also, the battery which only has a 5 year warranty costs $5,000+ to replace. Ouch! With one battery replacement, all of your fuel savings go out the window.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    costs will go down with more and more hybrids on the road.
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197 _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=01990871

    Look forward to seeing the concept at the New York auto show. I'm glad they are sticking to a V6 rather than caving in and listening to critics that know little to nothing about cars.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    NO V8 OR RWD!!!!!!!! (drivers can be environmentally friendly and kill the tuned Neon at the stoplight)
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I am all for saving the environment, but there are potential problems with hybrids that you all are overlooking.

    (1) The complicated hybrid powertrain would require dealer maintenance. I don't think any independent mechanic would touch that car with a 60 foot pole.

    (2) Any savings at the gas pump would more than be offset by higher price tag of hybrid cars.

    (3) When it is time to change the battery pack, the price of a new one could cause sticker shock. For the Toyota Prius it is about $2000. For a car like the RL it could be $5000+ as someone pointed out.

    Therefore, IMO a normally aspirated V8 would actually be cheaper to own in the long run.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Yes, there have been some studies using current gas prices + current price of a hybrid vs. traditional gas vehicles, and I believe the cost savings aren't realized until around the 100K miles point.

    However, as a person who hates to stop for gas, I would enjoy the convenience of being able to drive for longer periods of time without filling up. There is, also, the environmental aspect of the vehicle, which has a strong pull for some folks.


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  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674

    not every electric motor has strong torque curves at lower RPM, however DC (direct current) electric motors do have amazingly good torque at lower rpm and since the electric system in a car is DC (even though the alternator produces AC) the electric motors used in hybrids show excellent torque. So it's all good in the end. (this is why electric locomotive powered trains use DC motors and not AC motors).

    Look at this scenario. Lets say the next RL comes with a 3500 cc engine with 300 hp, with its latest iteration of ivtec and everything i expect its torque curve to start in the 2500-3000 rpm range. But during this first 800 (idle)-2500 rpm range, the electric motors (assumed to give 100 lb-ft) are churning on the rear wheels. So even if the gas engine in the front is only pushing like lets say 150 lb-ft, you got a total of 250 lb-ft of torque gunning out, with a little forward bias... and if you really scream the accelerator past 2500 rpm, you could get the entire torque spectrum, about 230-240 odd in the front and 100 in the back. that's a ton load of torque to pull this car (and not push)... but given how close to neutral the TL and TSX are, the RL could really pull off a neutrality. And then you have the fact that you have a engine that's ready to hit 5-6K rpm easy due to the nature of the honda engines and in theory this could lend itself to a wonderfully screamable assemblage.... just in theory so far.

    i would like to point out, that firstly, in most cases, first owners of luxury cars dont take their cars to non-dealers to fix and secondly, the maintenace history of the hybirds on the road is nothing bad compared to regular cars from same car makers (toyo, honda)... so i would not worry about the 60 foot poles as yet.

    just my 2 cents...
    sometimes you are the windshield
    sometimes you are the bug...
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Kso - Thanks for the clarification on DC electrics.

    Honestly, there are too many variables for us to speculate without more information.

    DC electric motors do provide lots of torque at rpm 1 and they can typically rev over a very wide range. However, they lose torque almost immediately. For example, I believe the Prius makes something close to 250 lb-ft at 1 rpm, but less than 100 by the time the engine reaches idle speed.

    Also, if the electrics drive the rear wheels only, will they have a separate transmission, or just rev freely? With a free revving design, the electric would spin pretty fast at higher speeds and not provide much torque, at all.

    If the RL goes with Honda's more traditional IMA approach (the electric motors work through the engine's transmission), then we get more torque at the start of each gear. It just loses the direct connection to the rear wheels.

    Bottom line. It's fun to speculate, but we don't know much.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    thanks for pointing that out, but that's why i said, 'scenario'... being one of many likely...

    and yes, very true, DC motors lose torque faster as RPM grows, but, if you sustain the RPM independently and gear it seperately then you have a multitude of possibilities, hmmm but then the cost will go through my roof, so maybe the best option might be to get the traction through the engine/transmission IMA layout... i'm sure those guys worked these things out, IF they are going this route...

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I like not stopping often for gas and saving the environment.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    The best solution would be to offer a V6 hybrid alongside a gasoline V8. Btw, offer a 5 or 6 speed automatic. If the TL and TSX can have 5 speed auto why not the flagship RL? Honda/Acura's decision making process is very strange.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    they should just drop it from the line up..

  • A mechanic at the dealership in Atlanta this week told a buddy of mine not to expect any significant change in the RL. Humnnn.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think it'll be launched in New York.
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    'cause I'm getting bored. There's no buzz on this car whatsoever... Lexi or Beemer put out a redesign and the whole world holds it breath.. Acura prefers to snooze through these intros...what a shame. I hope I'm in for a pleasant surprise.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Honda always does that. Whats new with that? They did it with the new TL and new Accord. They did show pictures for the TSX and RSX but those aren't cars to sell to to the masses. I guess honda wants to surprise the masses with a redesign. This is Honda's biggest car they have ever done in my opinion. If they don't get hit the 05 RL right it won't bode well for the image of the Acura brand. Honda is the best car company when it comes to putting out a good overall product.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    but, they didn't wait so long that by the time TL came back with a super BANG, people were already buried and snoring in their graves... however graceful and pleasing i thought the RL was back in 1997, I'm losing patience. My love for Honda is largely driven by interest in their "dare" to experiment on the cutting edge lately, maybe not so much as in exterior design but as much in the interior "content" and the wizardry in their spectacular little engines...

    But, after several thousand years of waiting, my patience is thinner than the thinnest rotors on any brakeless car i've driven...

    I'll just assume their concept could not be converted into a manufacturable car and just trade my type s for a new type s and go on with my life...

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    You could buy a TL.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    i've a 3 series to make me feel good about hugging the road.. so my TL needs are taken care of. if i'd more money, i'd get the Jag XJ, but I'm not anywhere there... so what's left in between? I love the new 5, minus the tail... i absolutely love the looks of the new E, but i'm not ready to pay about 16K for options... so i'm looking to go a little al-cheapo on that end... and the type s fits my budgets fine. I disdain the blandness of lexus and i dislike the looks of the infiniti... and too many of my friends complain about build quality on their nissan/infinity cars... so i'm mostly cornered myself into either the type s or i keep hoping a RL will come along and charm me, like the one back in 97... which looks remarkably the same today... and honestly if you sit inside the RL today, it seems like you sat inside the interior of a 1998 honda accord... that's a bit too BAD.

    thank you, no.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    if you wait, the new RL will be here. (hopefully)
  • tls02tls02 Posts: 20
    In the 2/1 issue of Long Islands Newsday newspaper, an article says that the 05 RL Concept will be shown at the auto show. The article also says that the new RL will have 300 HP and be All Wheel Drive and that the actual car will be closer to the concept. The article says that at least 8 local dealers have been told this. It also says that Acura is sticking with a 6 cylinder. Dealers will see the new car at their dealer meeting Aug. 26 in Chicago. The new car might be a Hybrid with 300 HP in FWD and 100 HP Electric (?) in back.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You'd have to pay 16K in E-Class options??????

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    its actually closer to 10-11K
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    its now, in the next few months, or never...
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    $16,000 doesn't sound so far off. $10,000 in options to get some pretty basic stuff that are standard elsewhere. (ParkTronic is a lofty $2000) The base model doesn't really have a lot on it minus the Mercedes Badge and leather seats.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Parktronic is not 2K its $1060.

    The E320 bases at $48,170.00, and with:

    322 Appearance Package details $3,880.00
    Curve Sensing Bi-Xenon Headlamps
    5 Spoke 17" Wheel
    Sculpted Lower Bodywork (Note the RL doesn't offer anything like this, standard or optional)

    323 Heating Package details $900.00
    Heated Steering Wheel & Heated Front Seats

    326 Premium Package details $3,650.00
    · Rear Side-Windows Roller Blinds
    · Active Ventilated Seats/Front
    · Glass Sunroof
    · Driving Dynamic Seat-left
    · Driving Dynamic Seat-right
    · COMAND System w/DVD Navi
    · Power Rear-Window Sunshade
    · Premium Sound System
    · Factory Installed CD Changer

     (Some other things Acura doesn't offer either standard or optional)

    I came up with a bascially loaded MSRP of $57,270.00, which is a $9100.00 difference. Hardly 16K, and such an E320 has much more than the current RL.

    Thats one of the differences between a Mercedes, BMW or Audi and a Acura. The German cars don't have to trade on that leather/sunroof/CD hype. There are two ways to look at this, either you want those things or you don't. BMW, MB and Audi give you a choice, Acura doesn't. This also means your RL is just like the other 8K that were sold last year, the only possible differences are either it has a nav or not, and the color.

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I though NAV was now standard with the RL?
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 674
    just wondering.. i'll be town just in case they want me to still be interested... lol
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    about like 5 more months to wait on this car. Can't wait to see how the public preceives once it comes out. Brand new STS comes out at the same time battles out with the RL. It will be a showdown!
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