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Acura RL

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Comments

  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Please tell him to tone down all the overdone details on the TL when it is time for a refresh. Get rid of that character line, do something with those sills so they line up and make the nose flatter and the booty a little smaller. Just me little suggestions.<

    Anything about the RL? The TL is not on tomorrow's agenda.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Oh, sorry. Well I'm not sure what to say about the RL just yet. I haven't even seen it in person yet. I would say that since they aren't going to do a V8 and rwd that the RL package is just about as complete as such a car can be, without those things. Oh well you could tell him to make sure they price it at 45K and make the nav system standard, it should do pretty well at that price point.

    M
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Tell him that whatever they do, for them to tweak and make sure the new RL outperforms some of what appear to be the more "staid" vehicles like the new Subaru Forrester/Outback, Cadillac CTS, Volvo, etc., and definitely the likes of E ,5, and Jag S series. Nothing would make me change my mind faster about purchasing the new RL than to read in the mags that a Subaru Forrester/Outback outperforms the RL.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    On the TL add SH AWD and make it avail in both manual and auto versions.

    With respect to the Auto Trans: 6speed please

    With respect to the RL -- offer it in manual transmission form, too.
  • hjcanterhjcanter Member Posts: 31
    Yes, Acura is coming out with a new AWD system and Audi has had their's forever. I bought my wife the MDX when it first came out. It was "new" for Acura and we never had a single problem with it. (We did just sell it because I bought a GX470) I don't necessarily agree that just because it is new, we should wait to see if they get the "bugs" out. Part of customer service is taking care of us if the car/suv has a problem. The service I get from my dealership is fantastic. That is from both Acura and Audi (both owned by same person). Like I said, it is between the a6 and rl. I will be seeing the a6 in person tomorrow or Friday. Oh what a great decision to be making, between what appears to be, two great cars!
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    For the Acura President:

    Focus on the interior. The new RL needs the bells and whistles that the current car lacks. Honda is very good at giving the average person everything they want and nothing they don't. But with the RL, they are not playing to the average person. They just need to give them everything.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My opinion is that the rear end of the RL should look a bit less like an '03 CL, but I dont know if its too late for that.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    RL:
    1. A more aggressive (but conventional) rear end.
    2. Most of the bells & whistles that Honda offers in JDM Accord/Inspire, including smart cruise control & CMS.
    3. Offer Manual Transmission with "Sport tuned chassis" (not necessarily including cosmetic effects)

    TL:
    SH-AWD

    TSX:
    Hybrid w/AWD
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    I probably missed the timeline but just in case let me say that one of the items I would definitely like to see in the new RL is a tyre pressure monitor. For a car that stresses so much manouvrability that should be a must.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    Although I do not own one I would most certainly recommend the integration of iPod in the stereo system. Apparently Apple CEO Steve Jobs mentioned they are working on it with automakers. I really hope Honda/Acura is one of them!
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    Adaptable push of a button multi-setting suspension with ride height adjustment, with auto height for city and freeway driving (speed dependent), sport mode, cruise mode, boat mode, etc... no take that back, no wallowly lexusy boat mode please, this is an acura.

    ksso
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  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Thank you gentlemen for all the great suggestions. I will pass them on.

    All this gets me to thinking .. why don't car companies set up an electronic suggestion box? Let owners and or/future owners write in and say what they are looking for in a new model. Granted, the car companies won't (or can't) heed all of the input, but presumably, some of those suggestions and requests might actually sink in.

    Wishful thinking.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    According to Acura's website, there will be a tire pressure monitoring system.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    In case you haven't check Infiniti M, they do have suggestion box to voice your view on the new M.

    On tire monitoring system, it is nice to have, but from what I have heard, most of them are buggy (false alarms). Besides, it makes tire rotation tricky and complicated. There are several systems available now.
    - one kind monitors tire radius. Inaccurate, false alarms.
    - one kind has embedded monitor inside tire on the rims. That complicates tire rotation. You need to reset computer after rotation.

    Any one with experience can comment on this.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I have the system in my 03 allroad -- it is the one that is strapped around the rim and transmits to the center of the dash. resetting and storing tire pressures is about two pushes of a button on the console. 1st push to bring up the system 2nd push to "store pressures" -- of course it should be done first thing in the morning when the tires are cold.

    Couldn't be easier and it includes the spare tire, too.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I think that a tire pressure monitoring system sounds great to me! Not only would I like to have it for my car, I know that my sister, fiance and mother ALL need it!

    I wonder how many automobile deaths associated with underinflation could be averted each year with such systems? Certainly those owners of Ford Explorers with Firestone tires would have benefitted. (Of course, Ford did not help matters by lowering tire pressure values for the Explorer in order to reduce roll over tendencies.)
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    It sounds like the newer systems are well designed. From what I heard on Nissan Armada board, there are some complaints. Certainly, if the RL's system is well thought out, it won't be a problem. No doubt, it adds safety to any vehicles.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    (From the "for what its worth department")

    I talked to my local Acura dealer today - Santa Monica, Calif. He says the new RL will likely go on sale in October or possibly later -- Acura is still not telling them. He also says that in late August his sales people will go to an Acura briefing on the new RL (that could suggest September). He thinks it's going to have an MSRP around $50K.

    One of his regular customers saw the car at the New York show and loved it. That customer sat in on a 20 person Acura RL focus group, which reportedly gave the car high marks, as is.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    The MDX has a tire pressure monitoring system and I believe the system on the new 05' RL is simply a carry-over from the MDX. Can anyone confirm?
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    "about $50K" would be scary because I don't see a Japanese V6 sedan selling for more than $50K any time soon. What I got from my salesman was "well below $50K". If it does sell for more than $50K, I would probably reconsider my order. $45K would be fair price from all aspects considered. $48K would be a stretch. IMHO.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Well, given that it was the sales manager, it's not surprising that he would quote a higher number than what it might really sell for.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, the marketplace will ultimately determine whether or not the new RL is worth more than $45K.

    Acura people, pleased to finally have a flagship car to sell, may in their euphoria temporarily forget that this car is coming back from the living dead; from obscurity. Remember that they could hardly give these cars away over the last several years.

    It is not a Lexus, nor a Mercedes E, nor an Audi 6 - thus there may be customer resistance to paying a like sum for a car that heretofore did not have the cache that these other cars have. I still feel that Acura would be smart to hold the line on the acquistion cost this year, and get a beach head with the new 2005 RL. Then, as Lexus did with the early years of the LS, start raising the price as the car becomes more noteworthy and more desirable.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    I agree...$50K is pushing it, unless, the RL simply smokes everything in it's class and many out of it's class (think V8 mid-lux models here). When I say "smokes" I'm not merely alluding to acceleration, top speed, and overall handling - I'm speaking of interior appointments, quietness, standard equipment, and overall feel of quality. The RL has been criticized for such a long time for being "bland" in appearance and "mediocre" in performance that it can't come out of the starting blocks commanding premium dollar. It's got to crawl a little before it can walk and eventually "run" with the "big dogs". If the RL lives up to it's expectations, and the marketplace gives it it's "propers" as evidenced by demand...then, in perhaps a couple of years, the 07 model might be able to command prices in the $50k+ arena
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I seriously doubt that Acura will be passing the 50K mark. The M35 AWD and GS300 AWD will most likely be less than 50, and Acura really cant demand more money than those guys (especially Lexus), 300hp or not.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Adaptable push of a button multi-setting suspension with ride height adjustment, with auto height for city and freeway driving (speed dependent), sport mode, cruise mode, boat mode, etc... no take that back, no wallowly lexusy boat mode please, this is an acura." - Ksso

    Okay, so when I first read "boat mode", I thought you were talking about some kind of James Bond feature, where the car grows pontoons and a rudder. LOL!
  • natenate Member Posts: 12
    Does anyone have any guess what a lease on a new RL might go assuming the price is 47000? I know it partly depends on the residual, but how do you set residual for a first year model with new systems(i.e. SHAWD).
  • dcwong1dcwong1 Member Posts: 54
    I kinda wish the new RL would have a V8 engine instead of the V6. 300hp and AWD may be great on paper but if Acura wants to play with the big boys (ie. Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi) they should put a V8 engine and have RWD. I would think Acura would have had plenty of time to make this car stand out from the crowd but I think they missed the boat. I'm disappointed that they only have a 5 speed auto when all the others have at least a 6-speed with MB having a 7-speed on some of their models. If they price it 45K to 50K, the better value may be the redesigned Infiniti M45. There is nothing on the RL that is really impressive when the other manufacturers already have it. If you have to have an Acura, you might as well buy the TL.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >>unless, the RL simply smokes everything in it's class and many out of it's class (think V8 mid-lux models here). When I say "smokes" I'm not merely alluding to acceleration, top speed, and overall handling - I'm speaking of interior appointments, quietness, standard equipment, and overall feel of quality. <

    I think that you summed it up very well, Shotgun. An overall feeling of richness and quality should envelop you as you enter the cockpit. The interior is not the place to scrimp or economize. Face it, that's how we interface with the car. We are sitting in the passenger compartment for hours on end. As such, the interior should be a comfortable, relaxing, and luxurious experience. It is, after all, supposed to be a "luxury car", is it not?
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    Acura needs to stay at the 45k mark or risk pushing buyers away. I agree that the new RL has to establish itself in the market before escalating prices. The new RL has not earned the "right" to sell for more than 45k at intro. I am sure there will be a wait list, for my guess is Acura will "underproduce" this car to create the perception of demand and a shortage. That would be a marketing nightmare if the don't make enough vehicles for the market. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, others can afford to have wait lists w/ introductions of new models. They have proven themselves. Acura has yet to enter the same playing field.

    My 3 cents:)

    Mike
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Sigh, didnt we already solve this the last 800 times it was mentioned? Honda doesnt have a V8 engine. They are not going to spend the money for what will account for roughly 10% of RL sales. If Acura is expecting 20-30,000 RLs a year, that would mean that an "RL 4.5" would be maybe 2500 cars a year. Would YOU develop a V8 and RWD platform for THAT?
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Sigh, didnt we already solve this the last 800 times it was mentioned? Honda doesnt have a V8 engine<

    Me thinks this gentlemen is new to the forum, so let's cut him some slack.

    Welcome aboard "DC". We can always use new blood, because God knows, it does get bloody around here at times.

    We've been busy solving a lot of Acura's problems. Now if only they would hire us on as paid consultants ...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .my dealer, who obviously does not set price points, indicates that the A6 3.2LFSI will base price at $43K MSRP. This gives one $6,650 worth of options to add to get to RL dealer's price point of a "loaded" Acura.

    True the Acura has the lure of the 300HP engine, but the torque figure is unknown and the Audi will have a 6spd (I believe lighter by 44 pounds) transmission and the Acura will be a 5 spd model.

    The two cars may be somewhat close in 0-60mph numbers for folks looking to spend just south of 50 large MSRP.

    I would think this might be a bit of a dilemma for Acrua since the Audi will come with 100% maintenance coverage including loaner cars and free washes (it adds up) for the first 50K miles.

    The dilemma is the one I face now -- for I had almost convinced myself that the Audi would be several K more expensive, and here it seems to be priced about 3 or 4 K less than I had anticipated.

    If you are in this market, the Acura despite its legendary (pun intended) reliability, doesn't YET have the "image" of the German (which has been getting mucho positive press of late).

    A stealth move would be to bring the Acura RL out at say $46,950 full boat -- and just do some catching up.

    Audi annual targets for A6 ~23K cars, US. Audi probably hates this, but the competition is the RL, moreso than the 5 or the E class, IMHO.

    Local Audi dealer will have the new A6 for "show" in July as the crown jewel of a new state of the art dealership (we have 2 stand alone Audi dealers in Cincinnati, one has already built the new palace, the other palace is shaping up very nicely for a July Grand Opening!)

    It just keeps getting more interesting all the time!
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Mevande - I get what your saying (and agree with the premise), but I don't think that factor will have as big an impact as you seem to be suggesting.

    The current RL is a joke when compared to others in the 40-60K range. It pretty much competes as a larger, roomier Lexus ES300. That does give Acura a handicap.

    But the new RL seems to be such a giant step forward, the lackluster performance of the old car may only give the new one a more striking first impression. For example, the Subaru Impreza RS was a lackluster car, but the Impreza WRX certainly earned the spotlight. The original Ody was a wash, but the 1999 redesign became the benchmark.

    It's not easy to break into a new segment, but it's not impossible, either. Honda had never built their own SUVs, but the CR-V and MDX showed that they could do right on the first attempt. Honda hadn't built a roadster in something like 40 years, but the S2000 certainly nabbed some respect.

    Anyway, my point is that the RL does start with a disadvantage, but I don't think it's impossible to overcome. Acura is on an upswing with the TL, TSX, and MDX. They've recently broken their all time sales record here in the US. There are also plenty of buyers out there who remember the Legend. So I think the RL has decent pole position to make a comeback.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    < We've been busy solving a lot of Acura's problems. Now if only they would hire us on as paid consultants ...>

    Hmmm, you know Legendman, given the notion that Edmunds is the most popular car site, and it's forum posters are, without question, the most prolific and knowledgeable, you would think a lot of key and influential Acura management/engineering/marketing types would be lurking in the forum soaking it all up. What would be profoundly satisfying to me is if a senior Acura principal would (not necessarily in this forum) issue a statement, perhaps via a news release or story on their official web sites, that they do indeed cruise the various automotive forums, and proclaim..."We hear you!"
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    For me, its got to come in for less than $50k to include tags, title, tax, and 1st six month insurance premium...LOL
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    shotgun, I wonder if you have seen the MY auto show video at another site. The product manager of RL claimed in the video that they (he and his staff) monitor various forums and they would continue to do so. That must include edmunds.com, I believe.

    dcwong1, welcome aboard. People here have been through the "V8/RWD perspective" many times. It is not gonna happen. Honda CEO already proclaimed they will not do V8/RWD sedans. It is unlikely for a Japanese of his statue to eat his words. AWD would be a "save-my-face" alternative, and it makes sense.

    Mark, I think Audi, like BMW, MB, needs to work on their reliability. German automobiles might still have special aurora to them, but it is fading quickly. They must carry satisfactory reliability for owners to proclaim their love toward their German vehicles. From what I have seen, many of my friends who owned German cars in the past would unlikely to own one again. Once you got burnt, it feels dumb to try again. People who pay north of $50K for an automobile do not enjoy standing by the highway waiting for help. That surely would get you famous in 5 minutes and miss whole day or work.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    of the 1300 posts so far, about 200 say what you said and we already have discussed this issue to death. please re-read all the 1300 previous messages. It is worth the grief of not having a V8... ;)

    ksso
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    >>German automobiles might still have special aurora to them, but it is fading quickly<<

    aurora borealis? or aura? ;)

    ksso
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I assume, too, that we be talkin' aura not borealis? But, I've been wong before, vewy vewy wong.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Like one magazine said, about the current IS300 "well its not quite ready to take down the 3 series, but this is Toyota's first real attempt at a compact RWD sport sedan. BMW has been doing it for more than 25 years." Give Nissan, Honda, and Toyota a few more years, and they WILL match the Germans on sport factor.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    sorry, guys. 'aura', not 'aurora'. Quick typing and bad coffee. Please bear with me.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Mark, for the record, I don't find your post about 'wong' amusing or funny in anyway.
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    I think you owe an apology to dcwong.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Not funny at all.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I spoke with Acura Client Services today, who had called to acknowledge my letter to Acura's president about the new 2005 RL. I did pass on your comments as well.

    I have been in touch with their client services people about a half dozen times over the years. With the exception of one nice woman - who no longer works there - I have found them to be snooty, aloof, arrogant and generally condescending and unhelpful. In contrast, the men in the field, the District Service Reps, are much more engaging and helpful -- albeit contacted indirectly through the dealership's service manager.

    Such behavior always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's off-putting. Curious if you guys have experienced the same, or better treatment. For those of you who own Lexus, Audi or Mercedes, what's your interaction been like with the parent corporation and its client services representatives?
  • natenate Member Posts: 12
    Does anyone have any guess what a lease on a new RL might go assuming the price is 47000? I know it partly depends on the residual, but how do you set residual for a first year model with new systems(i.e. SHAWD).
  • dcwong1dcwong1 Member Posts: 54
    I am new to this RL board. My family has owned 3 Acuras in the past 17 years. Mom still drives an '88 Legend, I had a '93 Integra, and my brother had a '88 Integra. All great cars to drive. I know having a RWD platform and a V8 is very costly but Honda / Acura has the know how to make this cost effective. Couldn't the RL and the future NSX share the same basic V8 architect so R&D costs are reduced? The current RL is a joke especially when this is supposed to be your flagship car. I was looking for something that stood out from all the German and Japanese luxo cars and this RL will probably get losted in the crowd. If I can go back to the second generation TL (I believe it came out in '98 or '99), I was disappointed in that car as well. It didn't have a 5 speed auto and it didn't have side curtain airbags. I believe this was a new platform shared with the new Accord. Instead of being the best in class with all the latest safety/tech features, Honda / Acura decided just to be adequate and follow what the competition offered and not be the leader like it was when the original Legend came out. With the new RL, IMO, it seems to want to follow and not lead. At least the new TL offers tremendous value and is probably the best in class with 270hp.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    How is Acura a follower with the new RL? Who else has SH-AWD? Who else in the class has a 300hp V6? It seems to me that the RL will send the competition scrambling to catch up, not the other way around. The TL is no longer best in class, Nissan increased G35's hp to 277, and the G waxes the TL on torque. As far as I know Honda has no plans for an 8 in the next NSX. Whether or not there will even BE a next NSX is apparently in question.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    dcwong1, what makes new RL stands out is the SH-AWD. 300hp, real-time traffic, etc. are just icing on the cake. SH-AWD is the most advanced AWD system used in production sedan or even sports cars. Acura.com provides very good video of how SH-AWD works. You would probably find that 0.95g road-holding is not a dream for a luxury sedan. I own a V8 BMW 540iA, and I am still excited about the new RL, especially the SH-AWD. SH-AWD would probably make you a believer if you enjoy driving more than riding along.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The only weak link I see so far with the new RL is the styling, imo. Some will never get past the lack of rwd and a V8, but other than that this car should win a few comparos when all these (E320, 530i, M35, S-Type 3.0, GS300, STS 3.6, and A6 3.2) are compared. The thing Acura has to do this time is not leave the car on the market for 9(!) model years without significant changes. It will need to be totally redesigned in 5-6 years with a facelift in between. No car can remain compeititve for 9 model years in this segment without a refresh and/or a total redesign. Not even Mercedes, the original 10+ year model run company can do this anymore.

    This is where you see which company has the money to keep up. Honda is small as is Volvo (the S80 has been around forever) and Jaguar has a few models with too much age on them also. You can always tell this way.

    BMW, Mercedes, Lexus (Toyota), VW (Audi) and GM (Cadillac) all have the money to do a new car every 5-6 years. We'll see what Infiniti does in this segment. They spent next to nothing on bringing the current M45 to the U.S. market because it was already in production for the Japanese market.

    M
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