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While shopping for a Sienna, I recently heard some dude getting a snow job on window etching at a local Toyota dealer. The rep was telling him that all their vehicles are registered before they are delivered to the lot, you can't get them any other way. The rep told this poor guy "we have to do it for insurance purposes and it helps you with insurance in case the vehicle is stolen". The truth is the VTR insurance policy is basically worthless because the only way you could ever collect is if your car is never recovered. Your car is considered recovered if they find the frame even if all the parts are missing. So they were sticking this poor dude for $295 for VTR.
Even more shocking than the rip-off price for VTR was the high pressure sales tactics that were being used. They way some of the dealers are selling this stuff is very close to being illegal and most certainly highly unethical. In short window etching is a major rip off of the consumer.
So just say no the VTR scam. Once they figure out you aren't fooled they will quickly throw it in at no charge since it only costs them $25 to begin with.
And you can buy your own kits for around $5, so $25 is still about 5 times more than it's worth.
Steve, Host
Thanks in advance.
I live in Fresno and was thinking of driving to LA to buy a weekend "ad" Sienna (the lost leader).
I only need a basic van as I will drive it to 90,000 miles and then sell it.
Thanks for any ideas.
The price is negotiable (of course).
Took the van in for it's first 5K service last weekend. Based on information given to me by one of the service advisors, I figure Toyota will reimburse the dealer about $475 - slightly less than 50% of the suggested retail price - for all of the services in this plan. That figure undoubtedly includes a profit for the dealer, although I don't know how much.
You can probably save several hundred dollars in dealer service charges if you buy this particular plan close to that amount. I estimate my dealer will charge customers without the plan about $700 for the same set of services. The store also sells a much more expensive service package, with a credit for maintenance that is pre-paid.
"I live in Fresno and was thinking of driving to LA to buy a weekend "ad" Sienna (the lost leader)."
Loss leader? One doesn't exist. You should be able to work a good deal (for you) at a local dealer, even if you need to order the vehicle. I did, at a time when dealer inventories in Northern California were much tighter than now. See my post #2623.
Also check some of my early posts regarding dealer negotiations, and my later ones about NorCal dealer inventories (e.g., #3030 and #3208). Dealers may not be as flush now as they were when I posted those messages, but that shouldn't stop you from getting a good deal. You can find all of my posts by typing my screen name (anduril) in the Search This Discussion box on this Web page.
So what's a good deal? My answer is one in which you pay as close to invoice as possible, i.e., dealer invoice + 2%, say. Of course, you can use your own percentage markup, which might be much less than mine (your decision). You won't embarrass yourself in the store if you do. After all, you are spending YOUR money when you make a purchase.
If you place a factory order, be sure to put into the contract a clause that entitles you to every cent of manufacturer-to-dealer marketing support or a manufacturer's rebate in the event either is offered between the time you place the order and the time you take delivery. After all, the dealer will expect you to pay for any price increase during that time frame.
So who gets the TDA fee? The dealers act like the money goes to Toyota to support regional and national advertising. If the money is passed back to the dealer then TDA is additional holdback?
The fine print says:
"This Total Estimated Cost includes the preventive maintenance items recommended by Toyota. The facility that services your vehicle may perform different, greater, or fewer procedures that can affect the cost you incur."
Dealers like to do more than what the manufacturer recommends (and they like to charge for it <g>).
Steve, Host
"Folks, lets make it a happy world for everyone. I don't mind giving discounts, but I do not like to argue to people that I indeed have a 2 percent hold back and TDA (Toyota dealer advertising), which is charged to us by the manufacturer."
Steve, Host
2004 Sienna XLE Limited AWD (model #5386)
+ pkg #6 (HO) DVD & navigation
+ Z1 pkg (preferred accessories: cargo net, carpet floor mats, door sills, first aid kit)
= $37950 out-the-door (only TTL extra)
MSRP: $41124
Invoice (carsdirect): $37066
Invoice (cars.com) : $36224
Invoice (Con Report): $36400
So, what do you think ? Should I sign ?
what part of the country are you in ?
$36398.00 is an acurate invoice price for your AWD and options.
Carsdirect, however, includes the TDA fee which other sites DO NOT.
Thats a key factor in your negotiating power (I learned the hard way when I went to the table, because I didn't know about the TDA).
anyway, Cardirect will approximate the TDA charge based on your zip code you enter before you do your search. In this case, their invoice price you list, seems to be right on the money. (in Arizona, I had to pay a $741.00 TDA)
I was able to secure my LTD w/ HO & Z1 for $600.00 over invoice.
Maybe there is less wiggle room for the AWD model, I don't know....
Everyone likes to talk about VINs and making sure you get them early..
But why?
Do I need to pester the dealer for the VIN shortly after the 19th ?
(Thank you host Steve for your lightning fast response... !! )
This takes you out of the market and when time passes and you get anxious for your new ride, the dealer makes some production delay excuse and tries to sell you a model on the lot.
Occasionally I'll read some scenario like this on the boards, but I really don't think it's all that common a problem.
Steve, Host
try across the river @ Cherry Hill Toyota.
If you do your homework beforehand, you can just walk in there with your price, no haggles, and put the deal on the table. They wont let you walk - they know it's a quick sale, with no invested effort.
Fast sale for them (they are a HIGH traffic dealership), and no sales tax for you!
This still leaves the process of gaining the best financing rate and we still need to make a decision on the extended warranty.
Postings from a few months ago discussed some of the going rates for extended warranties. I would be interested in finding out what kind of rates people are being quoted out there now. An initial conversation with the dealers finance guy, indicated he could "give" us the Platinum 7yr/100,000/$0 for $1,400. He indicated this was $1 over his costs. This is way high from some of the other posts I've seen. Also, the brochure he gave us is from some other vendor. Nowhere on the brochure does it indicate it is a Toyota Factory extended warranty. Is this typical for them to push other products other than Toyota? I am really on the fence about getting the extended warranty to begin with. I certainly will not get it for the price initially quoted. Are you able to purchase the Extended Warranty from any Dealer, local or not? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
I have purchased many new vehicles, including some expensive, higher-maintenance European ones, and I had never purchased an extended warranty before. But I just decided that $800 was a reasonable risk, given the added complexity of my XLE's AWD system, three electric door motors, and any first-model-year production gremlins that may show up later.
And you're getting the more-feature-laden Limited model, so you might want to check on the price to replace the 'brain' for that laser cruise control system, or the back-up sensor system, etc., etc.
Tell your finance/paperwork person you'll pay $800. I believe that person has the discretion to discount the warranty, as I'm sure he or she is offered an incentive program to sell warrantys. I bought my Sienna on the last day of March, so selling one more warranty in the first quarter may have been more important to my guy than making a ton of money on it.
You can buy the warranty from any Toyota dealer, so shop around.
Also be sure if you get the AWD you get the correct brochure for your tires. It should specifically refer to the Dunlop SP Sport 4000 P225/60R17 run flat tires with safety and Warranty information . I was given a generic Dunlop brochure, and when I called, they said Dunlop had run out of the Run Flat brochures. I received one in the mail yesterday and it was xeroxed, so I guess it is true that they did not print enough copies. If you did not get the correct warranty brochure for your tires, call your selling dealer, or get the Dunlop 800 number from their website and call customer service directly. Ask them to send you the correct one.
7yr/100k/0 deduct Platinum can be had for around $800, and the 7yr/75k/0 deduct for $500. K C Summers Toyota will take care of you, if you decide to go with one.
Any comments/ideas/experiences?
Funny how sometimes the pricing turns to $ off MSRP rather than $ above list.
If you are lurking this board, please register and offer your buying experience. The information presented here has been invaluable to me.
Buy in NC with confidence, and take a scenic drive home via the Blue Ridge Parkway.
This fee is over and above the invoice price posted on kbb.com, yahoo autos & Edmunds etc..
There pretty much isn't any way around that fee (from what I have been told, anyway)
If you take Base ($30685.00) + Dest ($540.00) + HO ($3018.00) + TDA ($670.00), your invoice puts you at $35087.00 + tax & tags.....
your $1000.00 over invoice is very accurate.
I purchased my XLE LTD with HO, and was successful in getting $600.00 over (here in AZ)
Have you shopped hard ? beat up a few dealers ? If nobody wants to budge, then you may have a good deal on your hands..
lets face it, 1K over is still a steal compared to what Fair Market Value has been on these things....
I will be waiting about 6 weeks for my XLE LTD.
Are you familiar with maintenance requirements to keep the warranty valid? Does all maintenance have to be performed by Toyota?
Also, wanted to see why so many people are getting the extended warranty. I am trading a 1997 Honda CRV(w/82,000 miles) in for this van and besides normal maintenance and wear and tear items(tires and brakes) we have only spent $175 on the car and would keep it but it is a bit small with 3 children. We usually pass on the extended warranties but after reading the posts here we are thinking about it. We plan to keep the van for a long time...at least 7 years. Just looking for your thoughts!
Thanks, as always, for the info!
Next questions
Picking it up saturday. We did not get a dvd for $1800. I'll buy an 8" bag model for 470 and save some money. I did notice that the rear audio does not inculde the headsets, anyone buys yet and where can I get them? I am sure the dealer has them for some rediculous price.
As far as posting your email, it's better to mark it public in your Profile. Otherwise it's fair game for the spammers (the info in your Profile can be grabbed, but the search engine spiders don't go through the profiles as far as I know, so there's much less risk).
Steve, Host
Thanks,
Rob