Pontiac Bonneville

ezrapon

We need a way to post pics. I propose we have a dirtiest Bonneville contest. With the exception of 2 semi circles where the wipers travel, mine is salt white. The black paint is nowhere to be seen. It looks like a battle wagon from a Mad Max flick. I would expect some stiff competition from Ice, although I'd match our recent low temps with anyone.

theiceman

Too cold to wash it and just enough snow and salt to coat it.

Not a pretty combination...

:-P

ice

P.S. I'm sure it doesn't look quite as bad in dark bronzemist as black - my wife's dk blue GP gets both thumbs square down.

mfahey1

Dirty car, what's that? As soon as mine gets dirty, I crank up the heater in the garage and clean it up. Call me compulsive or whatever but my car is usually clean although I tend to leave my wife to her own devices.
BTW, saw my first Maurauder on a trip to Milwaukee yesterday. Very reminiscent of the 94-96 Impala SS and a very nice looking package.
Cojones, hopefully you have two of them.

xavier64

Ken,

Glad to hear you had a nice trip to PA. Have not been around the site lately but the Bonnie is doing fine. Finally passed the 10,000 mark( since I walk to the train station, the Bonnie only gets to stretch the legs on the weekend).
A friend of mine just purchased a '03 SE yesterday to replace is '96 SE. He purchased the bench seat so it will be intersting to see how it looks. I wish him the best with the new wheels. I will see if I can get him to join the town hall.
Hope everyone had a good Christmas and spring will be here before to long. Taking the Bonnie out to Harrisburg and out to Lancaster on Saturday
for some "cool" driving. Take care....sxb

mlm4

Living in Florida, there are many things I miss about New England, but one of them definitely is not road salt. Nasty stuff. If I were living there now, the Bonne would be parked in the garage for the better part of the season (that's what the truck is for). But here, it's perfect weather for driving -- dry, fewer (but still some) bugs, and no snow! Actually, they reported a few spits of snow around Daytona Beach this morning, but there was no videotaped evidence of it. Having grown up in Massachusetts, it's fun to watch the locals freak out when it gets cold here (27 this morning in Orlando, but back in the 60s for the weekend). One county even closed school today because they were afraid not all the students would have clothing appropriate for the cold. Big news for sure! :-)

Regarding the upcoming GXP, I'm getting the impression that all the GXPs will only be offered in one color - Shadow Black tri-coat. I was hoping for three or four color choices. The black looks great but I've never been keen on owning a black car; could this be a deal-breaker if it is true? (Oh, that and the price! :-)

theiceman

I do likewise but, with the temps hovering around 0°F to -10°F, it's too much of a PITA to do it - especially if I know that it's just going to get dirty within a couple of days.

<sigh>life in a northern clime</sigh>

ice

bunky36

The Pontiac Division announced in November that the Bonneville GXP would come in 10 colors, two of which would be what they are calling premium tri-coat colors.

http://media.gm.com/events/sema/02sema/pontiac/04_bonneville_gxp.- html

bh

tpken

I got mine cleaned up a week ago and it still looked green till this morning when we had more snow so the salt trucks have been out again. Used the windshield wipers all the way in to work trying to keep the window clear of salt build-up so I'm definitely back to a salt-white car again. Yuck!

Michael - I am SOOOOOOOO envious of anyone who doesn't have to deal with this wintery nuisance up here.

Stephen - Glad to see you're around! You're gonna own that car forever at your annual mileage rate!!

As to tire rotation - every 6K miles as recommended. Actually overdue now by a few hundred miles I think.

mlm4

Took a quick road trip up to Savannah last weekend and chuckled at the parade of salt-encrusted vehicles heading south on I-95 towards Florida. Seems like most people wait until they get all the way down before washing their cars! Wishing now that I had taken the Bonnie instead of the truck, because the low clearance sign in the hotel parking garage scratched the roof rack and my XM antenna (it was a short six feet!).

xavier64

Ken,

Had a nice trip on Saturday going out from Philly to Harrisburg(National Civil War Museum to Gettysburg and back to Philly. What was amazing to see is that the Susquehanna looked like the whole width of the river was covered with ice in some sections. I averaged 25 mpg on city and highway driving and I got some additional salt from the PA turnpike and a tractor trailer's carrying the stuff. The bonnie is not "salt" white but she is still running well. With the trip, I actually put some highway miles and got me within 200 miles of 11,000. Do I hear 12,000?

I took a look at my friend's new Bonnie and with the bench seat option, there are no vents to the back seat area. I don't think this would make to big a difference but I wouldn't know since I am always driving. The color he got was the light blue and it drove smoothly.
Take care everyone and see you around the town...sxb

evandro

I've just got a call from the dealer that my 2002 SLE was gifted with this dreaded issue at just a little over 17000mls! :^(

I noticed a pink, oily fluid in my garage and I took it to the dealer yesterday thinking that it was transmission fluid leaking from the transmission cooling lines close the radiator.

So now the manifold was replaced and I'm wondering if it's the same old part or a new one that won't give me the same issue again...

evandro

I got my '02 SLE back from the dealer yesterday. I'm wondering whether this a fix for good or for just the next 17000mls... :^(

Does anybody know if the part # changed for the redesigned part, if it exists? The part # of the replacement was 17113136.

I've also noticed that the gasket (part # 17113137) was not itemized in the replaced parts list. Shouldn't it have been? I asked the service guy and he told me that 17113136 is probably a kit that includes the gasket...

Does anybody have a TSB about this issue?

TIA

tpken

Stephen - did you notice any difference in the way the front seat felt to you compared to our buckets? I still am not fond of the overly (IMO) 'scooped' design of the buckets.

xavier64

Ken,

I sat up front and the passenger seat seemed the same. I will checkout the drivers side to see if there is a difference. On my friend's previous bonnie ('96) the seats were not as scooped. I will follow up on this and see.

Ken, how have the Aqua Tread III been working out for you in the snow. I was wondering if there is a favorite all season tire for the Bonnie for those that run in the snow.
Take care,
Steve

evandro

FWIW, the only TSB about this doesn't apply to the current engines. As you can see here, the TSB recommends replacing the lower intake manifold as well. However, the current engine has a different one that supposedly fixes the issue, as you can see here.

I did confirm with the service assistant that the upper manifold # 17113136 does include the gaskets between it and the lower manifold and between it and the throttle body.

What gives me the creeps is that, unless the original part was from a bad lot, just replacing the upper manifold doesn't address the issue... I was lucky that this time the coolant leaked outside the engine, for had it been inside we'd be talking about a potentially severe engine damage. :^(

theiceman

Xavier,

Go back a few dozen posts and you'll see my practically-fanatic raves about the Nokian WRs I put on the car two months ago: That's the thing Ken...

In summary: Nokian WR is: a V-rated performance all-season tireonly such tire which merits a "severe service" designation for winter usegrippy in snow, ice, wet and dry conditionsquietpurported to have long tread wear lifethe most expensive tire I've ever purchased.

I live in Ottawa, Canada - our temperatures haven't cracked above freezing yet this month (and it's the 31st today!). Any tire that handle our conditions can handle anything most other climates will ever throw their way.

Hope this helps.

ice

tpken

Steve - I had great performance from these Aquatread IIIs during their first winter but @ 25K miles later now they are only marginal. There had been a vibration which may or may not be from feathering and right now is not noticable. When I get them rotated this weekend we'll see what happens. Gas mileage definitely dropped a few miles per gallon when I put these tires on. All in all I'd say they are terrific in wet weather as advertised, not bad on dry and when new they grip well in snow. Don't think they'll last the year for me - I'll be looking up a Nokian dealer sometime this year.

xavier64

Ice,

Thanks for the tip on the Nokian. It will be some time before I order new tires but if they work up in your neck of the woods, I'm sure they will work here in PA. Always good to here what others use on their Bonnies. Hopefully you will break past the freezing point soon. Will be 50 and raining on Sunday but it beats dealing with "blackice". Will be checking out my friend's new Bonnie tonight and I'll see if the bench seat combo is any different than the bucket seats. Have a safe weekend everyone..sxb

xavier64

Talk about simulateous postings....sxb

hydrasports

Like a plague my 02 SE with 9300 miles has this problem. My leak is just starting and appears to be external. I can smell hot anti freeze and see the drip trail. I will be calling the dealer on Monday. Well, the car isn't new any more. Plan to drive it hard and if I have more problems just dump it after the 3/36 expires and take the 'hit' on the trade. I wonder if all the cold weather brought this on ? This used to be a bullet proof motor.

evandro

I'm sorry to know that your Bonnie developed this malady too. Mine has otherwise been trouble-free.

It's unacceptable that such a lousy plastic part is used on an engine that used to be regarded as one of the best V6 ever... :^(

I found out that the Aussie Holden uses this engine down under with both manifolds made of Aluminum. I wonder if it would fit a US-issue 3800... Anybody interested in pooling a purchase?

mfahey1

Good reason to buy an SSEi? I agree that this whole issue is a disgrace but at least the L67 has an all aluminum intake.

evandro

The SSEi price mushrooms quite a bit. Just wish that the SC were an option as it used to be... :^/

theiceman

The thing that bothers me about this is that I've go two cars with potential for this (the GP GT as well). It looks like I'll be taking the extended warranty on the Bonnie and I'll likely be dealing the GP away in two years anyway (it's on a lease).

But... if there ever was a case for a hidden warranty - or a full recall - this could be it. I wonder how many cases GM is already repairing under legit warranty on this.

xavier64

Ken,

I asked my friend about the bench seat and it is similar to the bucket seat setup.

Hydrasports- Sorry to hear about the plastic manifold problems. Does this occur in other GM cars that use the 3800? The Bonnie is comfortable car to drive and GM must know about the problem butdoes not fix it. This is one way to drive customers away. Hope things work out with the dealer....sxb

evandro

Unfortunately, the issue apparently plagues all applications of the 3.8 V6.

The latest installment, because it's been happening since the Series II came out, after a revision of the lower intake manifold, affects only the upper intake manifold.

I just hope that it was only a bad lot and that new parts don't suffer from this problem. But so far I haven't had confirmation in this, especially when it seems to affect several models with this engine (AFAIK: Bonneville, GP, Regal, LeSabre, ParkAve).

tpken

Had mine rotated this weekend and yes I do still have a minor vibe somewhere that becomes noticable over 75 mph but it does not seem anywhere close to what it was when these tires were up front the prior time. Planning to just keep watching for deterioration if it occurs.

However I do need new rear brakes now at 68K. The last time I had rotation it was mentioned as probably being due at this rotatin and now the rotors were too bad to be resurfaced. I'd like to know how this happened at this point since the fronts are fine and all pads were replaced at 35K by the dealer just before wty went up. So $300 is flying away!

hydrasports

I got my 02 SE back from the dealer today. I was correct the leak was just starting. They replaced both the upper and lower in-take gaskets.
Parts #17113137 and #12480830. This dealer is a single line Pontiac dealer since the 1960's has been in business for a long time with a good SVC department my family has bought cars from them over the years; so I trust these guys. Their take on this problem is in the the assembly process. The gaskets don't get seated properly(automated process?) They don't view the gasket material as the problem. Hey, only time will tell. For insurance I will change the oil this weekend. Thanks to those on the board that posted this problem. Now I want to get back to enjoying my new ride !

imidazol97

How many miles on the tires since the last rotation? Have they been rotated regularly from the beginning?
I get the sense that with my tires if the first rotation wasn't at 6 or 7K (early) and then regular
rotations at 7 or 8K, uneveness developed and never smoothed out completely on
successive rotations. I made a mistake when I went 12K on new tires because they
were so smooth and even-riding. Then once rotated, the uneveness could be felt from
then on... It seemed that the rears caused a wear pattern and once it moved from the
rear I felt it from then on.
Just a thought...

skyhawk3

I rotate the tires every 3rd oil change about 9 to 9.5k miles. I do not have any vibe at any speed. However, the tires are re-balanced every time. I have my routein maintenance done at a local Sunoco dealer and he won't rotate tires unless he does the balancing. His price is about the same as the Pontiac dealer. I have 33K on the original tires and I expect to get well over 40k from these tires. I have yet to have any warranty work done. This 2001 SLE has definitely exceeded my expectations.

theiceman

Odd thing happened to me tonight - on the drive home, something just felt wrong. When I got home, I quickly discovered that the rear of the car was jacked way up - there's a good 8" gap between the top of the tire and the apex of the wheel well opening! It's even on both sides.

I'm guessing that whatever is supposed to stop the auto load leveller from pumping didn't do its job. Either that or its coil related. I guess - I really haven't gotten under to check it out yet.

Well, off to the dealer I go...

ice

imidazol97

My first guess would be check the little plastic arm that connects the axle to the
height sensor. On my car it's a ball and socket. Plastic... just like the intake plenums
are plastic (grin). It looks to me like it could be knocked out by water splash, or ice or snow
hitting it in our Ohio weather. If it's disconnected the car thinks it's bottomed out with
weight in trunk.
The air pump is supposed to turn off after a maximum run time -- I'm guessing
about 20 seconds or so without checking the service manual. I think there's a pressure
limit setup too.
Turn key on and wait about 40 sec. The pump starts and should run for only a limited time.
Is this a separate circuit with a fuse that is easily removable?

theiceman

Thanks - the pump doesn't come on any more - probably because the ballder is now fully inflated. I looked last night for a height sensor trip but couldn't find one. And I do believe that the pump is on a separate fuse - so I've been contemplating doing that.

Probably should - those speed bumps can't be doing my car any good with the shocks fully deployed like that.

Thanks again - I'll report back.

ice

mfahey1

Any pictures of this? You might want to take credit for starting a trend, you know.

evandro

The height sensor is between the right rear wheel and the center of the car, kind of 1/4 off center, between the lower suspension arm and the body.

HTH

theiceman

Yeah, she's a looker alright - all caked in salt and jacked up in the rear (7" - not the 8" that I reported last night). And yes, the pump still comes on every GD time I start 'er up. Those rear shocks are as hard as rock. Dang but it really impacts the ride - not to mention how much (little) of the road your lights illuminate when you're tilted that much.

Thanks for the locating tips - I actually found it earlier this morning. Curiously, on my car it's located inside the driver's side wheel well and appears to be entirely intact. I'm guessing that the switch itself has just failed - internal wire contact perchance? Who knows - I'm bringing it in tomorrow and the dealer has already ordered the part to be sure that it will be there.

BTW, I tried to pull the fuse (relay actually) but it was pretty solidly in place and I was loathe to break any pins. Ah well, it'll be fixed correctly by this time tomorrow anyway.

Making me think that much more seriously about that extended warranty however...

ice

theiceman

The official word from the dealer was a short in the height sensor. Ahhh... 'tis nice to be level again.

Did the "60k kms." service while I was at it - they found no other faults in the car but the front pads were low so I agreed to replace those. Probably a tad premature but it'll be at least another 10k-15k kms. before my dealer sees the car so I didn't quibble with the recommendation. Front rotors "lightly resurfaced" as well.

Despite my telling them to use the Mobil 1 in my trunk, they forgot and put reg. dino oil in. I'm considering bringing it back next week to have them flush it and put my oil in - as I requested. At their cost of course.

ice

theiceman

Nothing that Bunky hasn't already supplied us with but the first link, although in French, has a couple of decent-sized pics.

WaWaWoum: Pontiac au SEMA And here's one of the pics: Rear view of GXP

Another article: Ultimate Car Page

And here's the skinny on the Soprano's story: Pontiac takes debut spin on 'Sopranos'

regfootball

looks like the decladding of Pontiac is finally starting to take place and not a moment too soon.

Problem, can't buy any GXP's yet. At the general's typical pace are we talking 2006?

even that sunfire looks nice! amazing they can take a yucky thing like that and make it likable.

Are they gonna spruce up the interior plastic too I hope.

rjs200240

http://media.gm.com/events/sema/02sema/pontiac/04_bonneville_gxp.- html

It should be out in a year.

mfahey1

I may have missed something but is the GXP an all new version of the Bonneville or just a rebodied 2003? I know I have read that the new LeSabre was being delayed by Bob Lutz due to the proposed one being so ugly but I wasn't sure if that any effect on the Bonneville.

hammen2

The GXP is not a total redesign of the current Bonnie - obviously, many of the body panels have been changed, as has the interior, and it'll have an upgraded version of the Northstar-derived Aurora V-8 in it. It's otherwise mechanically very similar to the current model...

--Robert

montanafan

The GXP Bonneville is the current Bonneville with a V8. The front fascia is more "SE" then "SSEi" and the cladding is smooth but still there. Expect possible IP Cluster and trim panel changes inside.

theiceman

From what I've read, the GXP is basically just a special edition Bonnie. Further, that there will not be a next-gen Bonnie as Lutz cancelled the development budget for the next one.

The most logical explanation that I've heard (and this is not authoritative) is that IF the GXP is a success, then the Bonneville name will live on as a V8 RWD version of the Grand Prix.

Could be worse fates.

ice

rjs200240

I had noticed that the tips on the GXP look an awful lot like the Corsas. I saw the Bonnie in Detroit and didn't think about it until I looked at my pictures later. I started looking at other picts and noticed many tips that resembled the Corsa ones.

Then I found this press release. I thought some of you might find it interesting:

http://www.corsaperf.com/semashow.htm

smfran

I can't believe it's been almost three years since I got my 2000 SSEi. It has almost 80,000 miles and I have really enjoyed it. I've learned to live with the idiosyncrasies of the ridiculously designed glove compartment and cupholders. Mostly because it is my 5th Bonnie and I'm very loyal. It still turns heads when clean and really has been trouble free and a pleasure to drive. It's not very good in snow however; maybe because I still have the original tires! I do mostly highway driving and the tread still looks OK. Recently my dealer inspected my brakes and tires says they still have more left. I'm a very efficient driver.

Today I got the early lease termination offer from GM as mine expires in May. I've made an appointment with my dealer, who is Pontiac/GMC, to test drive the Envoy XL over the weekend and work me up a deal.

Does anyone have any experiences or comments on the Envoy?

Stephen

theiceman

Driven one twice - been in others several other times. Very nice, decently powerful SUV - go for it.

Sorry to lose you here though.

ice

smfran

I debated about saying something in my post about leaving but decided not to. I'm sure I'll like the Envoy and go for it but, after five Bonnevilles, I just can't abandon this board. I'll remain subscribed and post my experiences. I'll also still be interested in what you all have to say.

Stephen

montanafan

Keep in mind there is a loyalty bonus program in effect for current SmartLease customers. It is worth $750 if you are Pontiac/GMC and go to another Pontiac/GMC. $500 if you switch to Buick, Chevrolet, or Oldsmobile. Also on the lease buyout they use the ending mileage for determining any possible mileage charges.

tpken

Stephen - The only family that I know who actually bought an Envoy had a lot of problems with theirs and recently turned it in for a Windstar. There were apparantly a series of very frustrating minor problems that took the vehicle out of service over and over again. Not sure what all the issues were - I can ask. It was very surprising to see the switch to Ford after a series of GMCs - Suburban, pick-ups, etc. but I guess the frustration factor was pretty high.

Hopefully their experience was atypical. Good luck to you. I like the Envoy too - best looking and riding SUV I've tried.

Ken