Pontiac Bonneville

ezrapon

Although... it's not the same car without the engine heater.

mlm4

Go ahead and splurge for the block heater -- it's only $35 (0.001% of the total cost of the car)! :-)

ezrapon

You can not put a price tag on the peace of mind that the block heater offers. I often find myself smiling when I vacation in Florida every year knowing that the engine (and my peace of mind) are alive and well monitoring those water jackets... ready to spring to life in the event of a harsh tropical morning. I'd sooner lose the super charger than my block heater. $0.001%, a bargain at twice the price. Last year I had the Rams, this year... a block heater. Don't get me started on exhaust tip cleaning!

whogault

Have not been around in awhile. Just had to have the steering half shaft replaced in my 2000 ssei. Developed a trunk in the steering column under warranty. They squirted "heavier grease" in two times previously. Now, with 42k on it, they did the repair for free. That was nice. Never have been able to balance the tires, no matter what tires on on the wheels, or who does it. Opened my trunk after a few days of rain some weeks ago and over a quart of water ran out of the trunk lid into the trunk. Removed the spare tire and found several gallons of water in the tire well. The passenger seat no longer moves back and forth. I have to say that I am very dissapointed with this$ 34,000 car I bought. I don't think I will buy another pontiac. Japan, here I come!

ezrapon

Two things: get an extended warranty and a block heater!

mfahey1

And here I thought I was the only one who actually ordered one. We have a 2 car garage and since my wife gets one side and the 70 Camaro gets the other, the Bonneville gets left out in the cold. Those who have DICs know that during the warmup cycle, the car gets truly horrible fuel economy. I have found that aside from the obvious benefit of having heat much sooner, the engine gets up to operating temperature much quicker and therefore, gets out of the fuel enrichment mode much quicker. I just wish it was secured a little better.

whogault

what I am going to do is get rid of this car as soon as I find it reasonable to do so. It is fast, but not well made! I always had respect for GMC and the products they produce. I have a 94 Bonni and have had two Montanas. The only one I think was a real value is the 94', and that is only after 5 alternators. The 98 Montana was an electrical nightmare, and the 2000 Montana has quality issues as well. I want to love my car. I want to keep my car till it wont run any more. That won't happen with this SSEI.

theiceman

Horrible story. Completely at odds with the experience with my '00 SLE (around 34k miles). This car has demonstrated that it's at least as well built as any Japanese car I have previously owned (and I've owned about a dozen) - and tons better than my one foray into European cars (a Volvo). That being said, I cannot blame you for dropping Pontiac cold. I'd suggest writing a (calmly worded) letter to Pontiac asking them why you should give them your future business. The worst they can do is alienate you further - a small risk considering the road you're already on.

I hope your next ride turns out to give you better service.

ice

theiceman

Hey! I've got one of those but I've never plugged it in. Could I be missing out on some secret performance enhancement?



ice

ezrapon

I had a 98 park ave. It was flawless. The Perfect car. I bought the 2000 SSEi because I figured it was going to be the same car sans fenders. I've had more squeaks and rattles, leaks, clunks, and way too many malfunctions to even think about keeping it past the warranty period. Still, the looks and performance outweigh the bad. As I close in on 30,000 miles I will either get an extended warranty or trade it in. It's a shame, but I don't think I could afford the repair costs without the warranty. The Park Ave(now my wife's car) is still going strong... they seem to have licked the alternator problem. EVEN without the block heater!!!

slicksickwilly

Hi All,
  Just got a new 02 SE a few months ago and it only has 3000 on odometer.. When it is cold out the interior will not completely defog. The front windshield will defog ok but the driver and pass windows will only defog a little and the back windows not at all.. Not sure if im working climate control right but i think i am(defrost/high fan/outside air).. Any ideas??

theiceman

Can't help you there. I have the auto climate control in our '00 and have never had a problem defogging the car in bitter cold or rain. One piece of advice though - next time it fogs (as opposed to frosts), try doing the same routine but with the a/c on. Makes a world of difference.

er... interesting handle there Willy. Welcome aboard.

ice

jeffbog

Not sure how the climate controls work on the SE, but check to make sure you are not running in recirculate mode. The owner's manual should explain.

bunky36

I added three more images of the production GXP that I found from 2002 SEMA:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290953645

One of them gives you a glimpse of part of the steering wheel and instrument panel. Kind of looks like the speedo and all will be white-faced.

smfran

I too have not been thrilled with the rattles, etc. I get with my Bonnie. I do not however, get excessive water in the trunk and have not had any major problems. I still have not had to replace tires or brakes(I do mostly highway). I did get the 100,000 mile warrantee and am glad I have it. I have had power window motors replaced and other minor problems taken care of under the warrantee.
I still believe the car was a fair value.
I'm still considering, after 5 Bonnevilles, getting an Envoy in the spring.

richm4

Thanks for sharing all those pictures, Bunky. That's one sleek machine. Too bad Pontiac couldn't have gotten rid of that disgusting cladding a decade ago.

Can't wait to see someone post some pictures of the GXP, GTO and 2004 GP from the LA and Detroit Auto Shows this week.

evandro

So they think that the Avalon "beats the Americans in their own game"? So they can't recommend the Park Avenue for below average reliability but did so for the Passat? Where's the Bonneville? Then again, why should I care about what CR says, people more interested in living a dull, uniform life much like in the USSR? I'm tired of this propaganda magazine, no subscription renewal this year...

montanafan

All GXP Bonneville photos I have seen show "cladding" same as current models, just without the ridges. All current SLEs and SSEls use the moldings to cover the SE door skin underneath. I do not believe the money will be spent to redo the SE doors, so when the GXP comes out it will have moldings from the mid-line down same as current car.

theiceman

Montana's right - all pix show some cladding but cladding which eliminates the ridges.

A lot of vehicles have lower body plastic cladding but Pontiacs are criticized because their cladding is noticeable - largely, I believe, because the ridges draw ones' attention to it. I actually prefer the cladding on the current SLE/SSEi to the ridged but uncladded SE because I prefer the smoothness to the ridges - even if they are stamped into the metal.

Would I prefer smooth, uncladded metal to smooth but cladded surface? Not necessarily - cladding does perform a function up here in the land of salted and sanded winter roads. As long as it looks good, right?

ice

P.S. thanks for the pix Bunky.

h101

Hi ya all,

I didn't die or sell the SSEi... I've been lurking, but not posting. My 36,000 miles and 36 months both run out in a few weeks and, except for turning the rotors for a brake pulse, my 2000 SSEi has been flawless... and the brakes were really not its fault... a tire shop overtorqued the lugs when I had the tires rotated.

Anyway... thanks for the great shots on the GXP. I decided when I saw it at the Chicago auto show in 2001 that it was on my short list for a new car if Pontiac ever produced it.

Interesting, I love the redo on the body cladding but I just have a "thing" about white faced gauges. It cost Chrysler a sale when the put them on the 300... my Chrysler went and the SSEi came... If the GXP really has 'em, it will be off my short list.

beach15

Why? I can't stand the downright nasty and very cheap looking glowing red on black gauges in Pontiacs, and thought the white faced guages and their beautiful script were gorgeous in our 2000 Chrysler 300M (gone now, too many problems and needed more room), both in the day and when glowing blueish-green at night. I know I'm not the only one who sees things this way, but we all like different things.

theiceman

I like the Pontiac gauges 'tho it took me a little while to get used to them. The real shocker is the number of compliments I get about the red gauges from passengers. Even when I tell them to get real, that I think it's overdone, etc., people really seem to like the look.

So, although I no longer find it novel, I've learned to like the red lighting. Yes, I like the black-on-white too. I confess, though, that I liked that effect a little more when it was the exclusive domain of upscale cars like the 300M and the Maxima. Now that it's found on Neons, Corollas, etc., my fascination has waned considerably.

ice

bunky36

I added a photo of the Grand Prix GXP instrument panel taken at SEMA. Be patient--its a 5mb file--takes a few seconds to appear. It would seem that the white-faced gauges are going to be a trade mark of all the Pontiac GXP's, or at least the five that were at SEMA (Bonneville, Grand Prix, Grand Am, Sunfire, and Vibe). I also added a photo of the Potenza tire that is going to be on the Bonneville GXP.

beach15

Here's a link to tons of pics of cars unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show:

http://www.autonews.com/files/2003_detroit/03detroitshowart/

Check out the weird new Malibu, the new Traverse, the Caddy's, the S10 replacements and the GTO.

h101

What do I have against white faced gauges? I dunno... just never liked them. I know that some of the guys have gone to lots of effort to put white faces in their C5's... and I just really dislike 'em. I like the black face with white letters/lighting in the Vette and I like the black face with red in our Pontiacs... guess it is just a styling preference, huh?

But... as I've said here before, glad we all have different tastes... otherwise we couldn't find the car in the parking lot

By the way... just to add a bit of lightness (and to prove the point), two years ago I went to Mid-America's Fun Fest... we pulled into the parking field mid-morning. By mid afternoon there were 4,500 Corvettes in the field... and the number of rows had grown a lot and it was really hard to get a frame of reference. Does anyone have any idea how many Vettes are black coupes? I will testify that there are lots of 'em.... and... it is hard to find your car in the parking lot when that happens

tpken

Yes, it's been a lonnnnnnnnnngg time but it's nice to wish everyone a healthy and prosperous 2003.

My Bonneville has 64K on it now and just got a new windshield last week due to a rock hit - crack. There are some rattles and I see that a power steering fluid hose is cracked and will need replacing. The car still rides well and I'm pleased with the experience so far. There are no plans to trade at this point but I'm always on the prowl for a good deal on something I like.

Decided that the Lincoln LS is a definite POS after driving a 2 year old model recently. That's one I had previously admired and it does handle well but the V6 model is noisy and trim pieces are ill fitting. The new T-Bird is sexy looking but I sat in a couple and found them to be less accomodating and more shoddy than I would have thought. All in all - the Bonnie still looks good.

Take care all - hope to be a more frequent poster in the weeks ahead.

Ken

smfran

Nice to see you back and look forward to your posts.

stephen

theiceman

Nice to see you both back here - Happy new year to you both!

ice

fantascp

Ditto!- Welcome back.- also, Happy New Year to ALL!
INFO- No longer commuting 80 Miles each day-After 31 years,officially RETIRED from the US Postal Service 1/01/03-! I guess my 98SSE will last forever now-(LOL). New career with the MRS.- full time Real Estate Agents.- commute less than 5 miles to the office when we do go in!
I'm second guessing myself on the move with handing in the 2000 SE for the 2003 Grand-Prix GT. The GP has been in the shop twice already-3 days to fix a trans problem (TCC Switch was bad)
The car was surging and bucking real bad at 25/35 miles per hour!1300 miles on car at the time and now with 2100 miles on it- the right rear door molding is falling off-new part was ordered and painted by dealership- car has to be at room temp for adhesive to work on the new part.- I know the dealership fixed everything etc no charge but it is a P.I.T.A.- having to use a loaner vehicle when they were fixing the transmission. They gave us a 2003 JEEP LIBERTY which I would NOT RECOMMEND under any circumstances. I was all over the road at highway speed (65 to 75 mph) and it felt like the vehicle was going to roll-over if you made any quick lane transfers!

Chuck

bunky36

Does the SSEi DIC include trip data? My wife’s 2001 GTP DIC includes such things as oil life %, mpg, gallons used, etc. I was looking at a 2003 Bonneville brochure last night and saw lots of system monitoring data in the DIC description, but didn’t see any trip data in the description even though there are buttons for TRIP RESET and MODE just like on the GTP. Just curious.

smfran

Congratulations on your career change. Hopefully the bugs will be worked out of your GP and you will not regret the move.

Stephen

smfran

The DIC does include trip meter, oil life, MPG average and instant, fuel used, etc.

mfahey1

I want to add my welcome back to those others that have been posted. It just didn't seem like the same old board without you(nice guilt trip, huh).
I'm like whogault in that I truly want to like my car and I do, when I and not the dealer have it. However, it was just in yesterday for the 3rd time in a little over a month. Last week it was for the SES light on again which turned out to be a bad gas cap of all things. This time they dropped the transmission and rebuilt the valve body and did some other transmission related items. It has been in 12 times in less than 3 years and stranded me once 1000 miles from home. Most of the items have been relatively minor, more PITA than anything but it gets frustrating taking it back all the time. I'm actually considering taking out an extended warranty as the end of warranty draws near. Anyone with any recommendations?
Enjoy your semi-retirement, fantascp. I retired for 21 months and decided several months ago to get out of the house and back into the work world. The only regret is not enough time to work on my old Camaro.

whogault

Oh yeah, I have a "weeping" power steering hose as well which so far has required me to fill my power-steering pump with fluid every few thousand miles or so as the repair was quoted as being around $300....did I mention that the passenger heated seat switch light burnt out? ( very picky, I know!)
How about the drivers side door gasket which nevr has sealed completely from day one? Test drove a 1991 Q45 today. Had 115,000 miles on it, was in pristene condition ( about as good inside and out as my SSEi) and drove tighter than my SSEi. Dealer wants $3800 for it. Hmmmm...should I sell the SSEi and get it?

smfran

Unfortunately it seems that in obtaining a vehicle, the quality (or frequency of unscheduled maintenance) is luck. I also wonder if some repairs become necessary do to driving conditions and habits. Even though I have complaints about my 2000 SSEi such as the cup holders and glove compartment accessibility, I am not unhappy about the general quality or frequency of unscheduled maintenance. I still like my Bonnie after 76,000 miles, but do look forward to a change in May when my lease expires. This is partly due to the fact that this is my fifth Bonneville since 1988.

imidazol97

Have Bonneville owners had trouble with leaking
intake plenum gaskets or bad plenums with recent models?... e.g., 98-3003?

I had one on 98 LeSabre. I wondered if Pontiac
has fixed the failure problem? (The LeSabre board
is not as active as Bonneville, so I thought I'd ask here!)

tpken

Chuck - Congrats on your retirement and best wishes with the real estate career. So you traded the '00 SE - does your wife drive the GP or do you get the new one. I'm taking a guess she gets the new one. Does she like the buckets and console now? I seem to remember her prefering the bench in the old one.

So it's $300 to repair the power steering leak? That reservoir is in a miserable spot to fill. The oil change guy was swearing and muttering all the time he worked on filling mine up. Tight quarters there.

Intake - I've heard of problems over in the Impala forum on 2001s that are being fixed in wty. Guess the plastic just isn't hard enough. I'll be watching for the telltale coolant smell.

Mark - what are you doing for work these days? Have you been to Maine recently?

Dan - glad to see you're back posting regularly again too. How are things north of the border? I bet you don't have any more snow than I do!!! There's at least 2 feet on the ground here now.

whogault

Power steering reservoir in a miserable spot? How about it took me an hour to find it!? ( And I used to work as an auto-mechanic in the years before fuel injection-early 70's) Then I had to go to the auto supply store and buy a long neck funnel to be able to get the fluid in there.
Now, tell me more about the " telltale coolant smell" A few times after parking in the garage at night I have smelled coolant, but was unable to find a leak or see much change in the coolant overflow bottle. By the way, lest anyone think I am just an irrational malcontent, I currently own 3 Pontiacs. Want very much to be a loyal, long time customer. Have enjoyed the performance of my car every time I mash the pedal. By at this stage in my life I want no aggravation from a 2 year old car.

ezrapon

I need to make it clear that I nor my pulley puller assume any responsibility (implied or otherwise)for transmission valve body failures. Mark, take note. I lost count on how many times I've been to the service bay, over 20 at least. Some of it was due to incompetence, but the car was usually to blame. I too had a power steering hose fail, the day before a trip. I get ready to trade it in then... yesterday, after having snow soiled roads (and a SSEi that looked like it was in the Bajah 500... got dirty just brushing up against it) for the better part of 2 weeks, I washed it(it hit about 70 in St. L.). As I looked at it all clean I couldn't think of another car that I would want to have in my garage. I hate to bring it up over and over again, but my 98 Park, which is the same car has been in the shop twice since new... what happen? From my view, only a fool would keep one of these past warranty without some coverage. By the way, I occasionally smell faint wiffs of anti-freeze, but I don't have the compsite manifold. I know Ford had problems years ago with aluminum intakes on cast iron heads??? Good to see some of the veterans re-surface again. BTW, do gas prices spike 20 cents over night where you guys live? This happens bi monthly here. I got gas @ 1.23 Monday, on the way home it was 1.48, now its back to 1.39. Is this due to greed or the constant USA sabre rattling?

mfahey1

I agree that as an individual car owner, you are subject to the luck of the draw. The 96 Bonneville I had for 70,000 miles was absolutely flawless. I never spent a dime on it for repairs and only had it in a couple of times under warranty. Of course, with what I've been reading about the intake problems, I do somethimes wonder if it has remained as good as when I had it. I have also known people with well regarded imports that have had more than their fair share of problems so it is really the overall reliability of the large population of vehicles that determines a model's popularity. Witness the 2000 Bonneville getting a recommended rating.
Ken, I changed gears somewhat in that as a matter of choice, I went into something entirely different than anything I've done in my career although there is still a strong engineering component to it. Now, rather than taking the Bonneville only out on nice days if possible, I drive 44 miles each way in heavy traffic, albeit in comfort and style.
Rod, the dealer still hasn't noticed the pulley and I'm certainly not pointing it out to him. I took it in because under certain heavy traffic conditions, it would upshift into 4th quite abruptly, not often but enough to worry me some with my 3 years coming up very soon. I look at like a free transmission tuneup, fluid change and toe-in adjustment.

mfahey1

See my post 3094 for my trip in October to Maine. I miss the place already although from reports from my cousin, I don't think I miss all of the snow they have.

fantascp

Nothing has changed in regards to my wife prefering the bench seat as opposed to the buckets and console but SHE was the one that wanted to DOWNSIZE to a midsize, (and she ruled out one of your favorites- that you can get a bench seat with, the Impala-),SOOOOOOO- live with the bucket seats etc.
I personally like the seats in MY Bonneville much better than the GP- as a matter of fact I LIKE MY 98 SSE better than the GP PERIOD!!! so it doesn't
really matter that she uses the GP more than I do.
Besides, unless we have separate appointments with clients, we'll more that likely be using one vehicle-(thus saving more miles from piling up on the bonneville)-we have a 4 yr lease at 15,000 miles each year, so put it on the GP!!!!

Chuck

jeffbog

My 01 SLE with 20k has the intake problem. Never noticed a coolant smell, but the overflow take was empty when cold and had about a 1/2 inch when warm. No noticable leaks. Went to the dealer on a Saturday and talked with the mechanic. He's seen a lot of the upper plenum leaks on GP's and Bonnevilles. He assured me that there was no way this leak would contaminate the oil. Most of the leaks are not caused by a cracked intake or bad lower gasket. Both of these would be serious. I plan to get the car in in the next few weeks. My wife's 2000 GP was in for the same plenum repair. Her car has 26k and the problem was more obvious. If you warmed up the car in the AM, you'd notice coolant on the driveway. Plus her's started leaking at a rate that the add coolant like came on. I plan to issue a complain with GM on both. I want coverage out of warranty for an obvious design flaw.

tpken

Looks like I may have to check that one out sometime. I do have to watch the coolant level and occasionally add some. A year ago on a trip to NC I had to add quite a bit - since then just a small amount now and then so I haven't thought much more about it - just to keep an eye on the reservoir.

Chuck - I agree with you - I'd take an older gen Bonneville over a new GP. That may change when the restyled GP comes out. I see Bonneville GXP is still on the planning boards for 2005 so hopefully Bville will be around for a while yet.

mfahey1

Trip to the dealer, that is. In yesterday's mail was an envelope from the dealer which I just assumed was a service survey on the last visit. However, when I opened it, I was more than a little surprised that what it actually was was a notification that the part they had ordered was in and I should call for an appointment. All news to me.
I called today to see if there was a misunderstanding but no, the new power steering rack was in and when did I want it installed? I never even knew it was leaking as I haven't seen anything on the ground. Score one for the dealer as far as looking out for the customer.

theiceman

I'll say! While a PITA, a new rack might make a noticeable difference in the handling.

As far as overall quality of Pontiacs, they don't seem to be - on average - up to that of the Buicks. A surprise given that they are extremely close cousins? Not really - it just proves that, while, you can design quality into a product, the people assembling it and the plant's approach to quality can still make a difference.

That being said, as I'm nearing the end of the factory warranty, I have had but three small problems with my '00 SLE - the ignition cylinder was replaced (under warr) when the car was mine for less than a week; a stereo LED expired prematurely (also replaced under warr); and squeaks showed up in the two front door panels (a dab of lubricant about a year ago seems to have solved this one forever).

After a dozen Japanese and European vehicle, this - my first - American car has been the most trouble free of any I have owned. And my wife's '01 GP GT has been similarly charmed.

And as I read some of your horror stories, I sit here in frozen Ottawa (and with about 1 foot of snow on the ground Ken!) waiting for the shoe to drop.

Then again, as smfran suggests, maybe it all comes down to luck. After bad luck with our Toyota Camry, our Volvo 740, and the Nissan powertrain on our Villager, maybe it's just my time for some good luck.

ice

theiceman

I have never reset the mileage calculator on the DIC since new and, over 33k miles, I am averaging 22.2 mpg. That's after I adjusted for what I've calculated as a 4% discrepancy in how the DIC reads fuel volume. (I've noted that, if - for example - I squeeze 52L of gas into the Bonnie, the fuel consumption readout will show 50L consumed since the previous fill-up).

theiceman

Tires!

These Nokian WRs are amazing tires - easily the best I have ever owned. I am strongly considering putting a set on my wife's GP - we'll save the OE ones to put back on the rims when the lease is up. They are first class winter tires on the snow and ice plus they are quite acceptable V rated performance tires on the dry. Excellent grip on the wet stuff too. And reasonably quiet too.

If you're in the market, I highly recommend this tire: Nokiantyres.com Note: this link doesn't list all the sizes available - I had to get 225/55/17s for the Bonnie as they don't make a 235/55/17. The 225s are V rated and have a 101 load rating.

Expensive buggers but damned close to tire nirvana.

(well named) ice

mfahey1

Dan, how did you obtain fuel used? Did you back into it using the trip odometer and the indicated fuel economy or is your DIC different.
Speaking of DIC, I honestly believe that if they were standard on all cars or at least the part of the DIC that shows fuel economy, a percentage of the driving public would pay more attention to their driving habits such as idling the car in the morning to warm it up, jackrabbit starts and maybe even driving speed. Maybe the SUV's and pickumups should have the readout about 3" high, front and center, maybe even projected on the windshield.

mfahey1

Decision time for me regarding the smaller supercharger pulley. Being the type that likes to stay either current or ahead of my car maintenance, I figured that it was time to check the oil level in the supercharger since the manual says to do it at 30,000 miles and I've got about 30,000. The oil level is supposed to be to the very bottom of the plug.
Well, I don't even see any oil in there, much less anywhere near the plug. The dilemma now is do I ask the dealer to check it next week when it is getting the power steering rack replaced, have them come to the conclusion that the internal oil seal is bad, want to replace the front end of the unit and then say, oops, this thing doesn't have the stock pulley on it? Warranty no good, so sad.
Or, perhaps some oil consumption is normal and I should just go buy some oil and refill it. Hmmm, what to do?
Anyone else have any similar experiences?