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Cadillac DeVille



  • benhambenham Posts: 1
    As I'm writing this I have to praise Cadillac for luring me away from Porshce. I'm 34 years old, started buying Cadillac's when I was 26 and have bought a new one every 2 years since then. If you do the math I'm getting ready to place my order for my 5th Cadillac and I'm continually encouraged by the way they keep improving a great American luxury car! Way to go General Motors for attracting the younger buyers!
  • Thanx for info re Northstar oil consumption. The cost of the oil is not the real consideration. I'm a combo car nut/perfectionist (dangerous combination) and if a new car - especially the quality of the new DTS - is using oil, my first reaction is "Something's wrong!" It isn't perfect. I'll have to get over this and accept that this engine is excpected to use a small quantity of oil. But I am going to put in Mobil 1 next oil change and see if there's any change.

    Thanks all.
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    Welcome to the club. I'm turned 35 in August and finalized an order for a loaded '01 DTS just this morning. When I take delivery in mid January, it will be my 9th Cadillac product (4th new).

    I find it interesting that "Cadillac lured you away from Porshce" since the two automotive philosophies are poles apart.

    Growing up in Queens, NY (GO METS!!!) I have always been attracted to Cadillacs. I guess I never grew out of it.

    Anyway, it's nice to know that there are others out there who are helping to offset the mean age of the Cadillac buyer which, if I am not mistaken, is around 68.

    BTW, Tccad- My deal is $1,00 over invoice and .25% over the buy rate in January. All rebates and incentives in effect at the time of the deal (around 1/15/01) go back into the deal.

    How did I do?
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    Sorry for the "fat-finger" mistakes, but that what you get when you try to type and eat at the same time.

    Tccad - I meant $1,000 over invoice.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Isn't the mean age of recent Caddy buyers much lower now, like down into the 50's?
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    I don't believe that the aggregate average has dropped below 65 yet. While, I am sure that the Catera has a much lower average age buyer than the Deville, it out-sells the Catera 3 to 1, so the total mean age is skewed to the older buyers.

    I am not, however, in touch with the exact figures.
  • tccad1tccad1 Posts: 46
    Philly: A little better than avergae deal. Depends on how many DTS's are on the lot though. One or two? Great deal. 10+...hmmm, hate to break it to you..=) To be honest, it was a fair deal for both sides. Enough to make sure the dealer keeps you happy. Congrats on the new car! As far as demographics, I seem to think we went over this somewhere before. I can say that 5 years ago, the buyers could have been my grandparents. Now, they are the kids that beat me up in high school =) The avergae age is down to the high 50's, 58-59. If I were to take a poll based on the last year or so, I would say somewhere in the mid 40's. That is incredible.

    1415: My store is about 30-40 miles south on rte. 59 I have also mentioned my thoughts on buying vs. leasing. And for the most part, only applies to luxury vehicles. I do understand that some people should not lease a vehicle. If you keep your car until it is a pile of rust, do not lease. However, regardless of how many miles you drive, a lease almost always works out better than buying if you trade every 2 or 3 years. Cadillac has the residuals inflated a minimum of 7%. On a $50k car, that is a free $3,500 rebate or about 110 a month on a 36 month lease. The only way GM and Cadillac get that money back is if you buy the car at the end, which, by the way, is the WORST thing you can do. If you always pay cash for teh car, do a one pay lease. You get to keep about half you rmoney in the stock market (well, maybe that isn't what you want to do right now!) and let it earn money for you instead of flying out the window everytime you turn another mile. I know someone is going to say, "But you never own anything at the end" True. You also don't own the headaches of trying to get Edmunds trade-in value at the dealer which will always be less than the residual (remember the $3,500 rebate?). Ahh, nevermind..I am just babbling again. If you have any questions, or care to try and convince me that buying is better than leasing, go ahead, post..I dare ya!
  • anonymousanonymous Posts: 314
    As I wanted a specific car my dealer had to order it as our chances of finding a DTS equipped the way I want in the color I want are non-existent. I have conducted my own search and I have yet to find one available exactly the way I want it on the entire West Coast.

    So, He orders the car and doesn't have to pay any flooring at all on the car when it comes in. The way I figure it I gave them a very fair deal, maybe even generous.

    Right now the store has 4 DTS's in stock. They get about 4-5 a month and sell them ALL so they never have more than that in stock at any time. My dealer will probably not pay any flooring on a single DTS (or DHS) for that matter for the rest of the year.

    However, they are awash in Eldorado's!
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    I don't know whats going on, but sometimes when I post to this conference from work, it comes up as anonymous. It is not a deliberate setting.
    Post # 226 is mine.

    Anyway, a while back someone posted a message indicating that K&N dosen't make air filters for the Northstar....Any Northstar motor. I had a strange conversation with a CSR from K&N who said "The K&N filter doesn't work with the Northstar Motor" I couldn't get any more info regarding what he meant by "dosen't work". I mean come on....An air filter is an air filter.

    Does anyone have a clue as to what nefarious corporate motives are behind this?

    PS - If this should come up as "Anonymous", it's Philly7!
  • What do you think the deal will be after Jan 2 on the STS rebates & residual? I know there is no way to know for sure, just want your gut feeling. I was looking at a 2000 STS program car, but now thinking about waiting until the 2001's are more available and new program starts after Jan 2. The 2000 program car is a definite buy, not lease. Just trying to make sense of the whole situation. The buy looks good on the 2000 vs leasing 2001. (hard to really say without a 2001 program though)
  • etharmonetharmon Posts: 399
    I'm glad to see more and more younger customers are looking at Cadillacs. I'm 25 and I like them alot. I know Cadillav will probably never have much of a customer base my age, but it's good to see that 40 somethings are buying their cars again. Notice I said again because Cadillacs haven't always been preferred only by the over 60 crowd. BTW, I saw a sterling DHS today with Night Vision. It was only the second one that I have actually seen on the road with that feature as I could tell because the grille had the camera lense and the wreath and crest were mounted flush on the hood. The sterling was very sharp looking.
  • 14151415 Posts: 249
    At the present pricing structure, I think your theory holds water on leasing/versus buying. I don't need the Caddy; for my driving is limited to the annual Florida run and if the car needs service. My car gets anywhere from 35k-45k a year--its also owned--90% business know the scene. The wife is the Caddy fan....

    Having gone through some 40+ cars; I can truthfully say that the car buying/servicing experience is beginning to wear a little thin. Still self-employed and working maybe 2 days a week with golf consuming 3 days; with the golf course 43 miles from the house. Glad it's a short season up north.

    Good to see Caddy going after the younger set, and sure wish they would offer a firm suspension pkg on the baseline Deville to eliminate coughing up the $5000 upcharge for the DTS.

    Caddies are somewhat more competitive in the Motor City arena for you have the GM guys who only drive them for a year; since they must keep a fresh one in the garage. The one year old, low mileage Caddy is a very attractive buy around here and I may go that route. Have doled out cash for the last three and battled hard upfront; but that initial drive out the door is is always a $5000+ dump the first minute of ownership.

    I don't keep these cars until they turn to rust--in fact my personal cars are spotless at 100k miles and the Caddy is picture perfect. Never trade-in a car--its easier to go in with a check book.

    I enjoy the candor of your posts and you are automotive-wise my man. Have a good weekend!!!
  • tccad1tccad1 Posts: 46
    Craig2000: My guess on the new lease. Right now, the Sevilles have been out for about 2 months. Supply is equal with demand so there is no price gouging. Best deal can be had right now. After Jan 2, my guess is they will lower the residual by one or two points at most. However, on a 53k car, that translates into about 15 bucks a month per point. If the economy keeps going and greenspan keeps increasing the prime, the rates will also go up. If you are a fan of politics, and I know better than to get into this, but I will anyway, after the election, the rates will go down slightly. So, in conclusion on my thesis of Cadillac lease programs, the program will be the same, but different. Confused yet? I am. Same payment but with a lower residual and lower rate.
    Buying a 2000 program car or lease a new 2001? That is a matter of money. NEVER, EVER, (is it clear yet?) EVER, under penalty of all my wrath, lease a 2000 program car. Always buy it. You can get a cheaper payment on a 2001 brand new. A 99 vehicle is ok to lease. Just not a 2000. It has to do with the cost of the vehicle vs. the residual. Long story, just accept what I say. My personal feelings, and everyone knows this, is anything of this value should be leased. Cadillac spends way too much money to help with the payment for you to go out and buy one. One of the days, when I have about an hour and a half, I will explain the whole behind the scenes situation on why to lease and why never to buy afterwards. BTW, there is a very nice program on the 01's. 36 months 3.65% 55% residual on 12k per year.

    1415: Thank you for your compliment. I have been intimately involved with leasing for about the past 8 years now. My specialty is looking at all the parameters, not just what is cheapest right now, and give my assessment of what will happen 3 years from now. Maybe it is better for you to be leasing due to business use. My understanding is that the government looks at a lease payment as an actual figure for depreciation. Therefore, you can right off the percentage you use for busines. 90% of 800 leaves a pretty small out of pocket for you for a Cadillac. I may be wrong on this, and I am not going to sign your tax return when you try to write off 100%. And maybe you should just be buying the vehicles. I really like to get to know my customers before making assumptions that a lease is better for them. BTW, nationwide cadillac is 68% lease. My store is above the 80% mark. Guess I can always find a reason for them to lease it =).

    Again, thanks for the compliments. I really do enjoy taking some time out to look at all the new posts and get a better understanding of what the customer is feeling. I truly feel that this board has helped both myself and anyone else reading it. Keep the questions coming, and I promise to keep the answers coming. Most of all, thank you guys, philly, ethar, robh, 1415, craig, tamco, and a host of others for not taking what I say as a car salesman, but as a friend.
  • etharmonetharmon Posts: 399
    You mentioned the number of Cadillacs which are leased is around 68% nationwide. Do you have any idea what that percentage is for other luxury marques. Also, any chance that Cadillac might run that 0.9% finance rate for 60 months that Oldsmobile and Pontiac are running?
  • Appreciate the input. I am going to change my request in the system to a 2001 STS and see what comes of it. I figure if I can lease a 2001 program car at the rates stated, that may be a better way to go. I heard a good rumor that lots of program cars are licensed in Illinois. If that is the case, how far are you from the "pick up" spot for GM program cars? If I could find the right car in Ill, I may be able to put it through your dealership. I am in Michigan. Can you provide any input on how this would work? I know it's a special case. Thanks again!
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    I have heard this term many times and I am not quite sure what is meant by it. Is it the same as "Pop Con" or Popular Configuaration cars?

  • A "program car" or a PEP car is one that has been driven by GM Management under the evaluation program (3 months). Then, these low mileage cars are either sold to employees or off to auction. When you see used cars with less than 10,000 miles on them direct from GM, these are program cars. Most are auctioned off to dealers. It is an employee perk! To summarize, program cars are driven by GM management or executives then turned over for sale or to auction.
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    Don - I'll let Tccad, the resident "Rain Maker" of this conference, comment on the quality of your deal.

    As far as CD changers go, I can only speak about the stock units. I have had the stock 12 disk units in both my '96 and '98 Devilles. I have never had a problem except for something getting loose in the trunk and bumping the changer door ajar. If you do choose the trunk mounted set-up make sure you cover it with some old (clean) towels to protect it.

    Good Luck
  • anonymousanonymous Posts: 314
    I received the following response to my email to K&N inquiring as to why the do not make a filter for the Northstar:

    Dear customer;

    We simply do not yet have a listing for a 2001 DTS, it has not been checked by R&D and has nothing to do with "not working". True, we don't have a filter for 94 - 97 or 88 - 90 Sevilles. We have a cross-reference for the AC Delco filter but when R&D tested it in the air box, it did not seal to our standards. The mid-size GM air boxes are made of a plastic compound that is difficult to seal against the urethane of which our seals are made. Basically, the air boxes distort when tightened down and foam can fill the gaps, but urethane cannot. We are talking about fractions of inches here but that is enough to let dust pass. Our filters are of the highest quality and we will not release a compromised product. R&D is experimenting with an open cell urethane (foam like) but this will take some time.

    Your 2001 DTS may or may not be different. Please check back.
    > Thanks for asking, Rick
  • nusinknusink Posts: 12
    Hi folks,

    I was hoping to get some input from experienced Cadillac owners. In a few months I am about to take on a 70 mile a day (round trip) commute. I decided that I want a big comfortable car. Some very good family friends of mine have a 1994 Deville Concours with 23,000 miles on it. These people are VERY particular and have babied the car since day one. Any inherent problems with the 1994 Deville? Should I buy a 2 year/24K bumper to bumper warranty for $1,278.00 or will the car stay together for another 2 1/2 years when I retire? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks very much,

    Mike on northern California.
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    Well, it sounds like you have a cream puff on your hands. '94 was the first year for the Deville Concours and the second for the Northstar system. I have not owned that year Deville, but I have not heard anything in particular to red flag your purchase. Buying an extend warranty is always a good idea, but I think you can do better than $1,200 for it. I would shop around for it if I were you.

    Otherwise, I'd say go for it. It sounds like a very cushie way to go for the next couple of years. Then, when you retire, you can buy a new 2004 REAR Wheel drive Deville to tool around in.

    Good Luck
  • Saturday 21, I went to test drive 9 of the worlds
    best luxury sedans offered by Motor Trend and
    Cadillac. Man, it was a beautiful drive from
    Nashville to West Memphis, AR.

    Now for the Full Size Luxury Sedan class: The S
    430 interior and ergonomics was nice but inside,
    did not look all that great like I thought
    especially once you sit inside. The car slid and
    slide in turns in the water and lift off was fast
    but was the slowest in the group. It slid on the
    sand also. However handling was nice and it did
    stopping distance was pretty well controlled. The
    LS 430 stability program is a POS. I roll around
    in the car repeatedly twice in circles in the wet
    stuff. However, it was the fastest during lift off
    and handling was good but not great. Interior and
    ergonomics are nicely laid out. It seemed to be
    the quitest car in the group. Stopping was well
    controlled as well. The DTS is an amazing driving
    machine. The car somewhat slid on the wet stuff
    but was well controlled the most. The lift off was
    faster than the S 430 and on the sand, there was
    no trace of skid at all. It handled the best also
    and it did not lean in corners or any like that
    (etc. much like the STS). Interior and exterior
    was so beautiful. So many worlds better than the
    competition. OMG. Cadillac have done a great job
    on all these cars and my experience was higher than
    my expectations were.

    I talked to three guys that was at the event and
    they all said that the STS was the best. They
    liked the DTS just as much. So, Cadillac has done their

    Now, on the Lexus LS 400, there was another driver
    that spinned out of control as well. The
    stability is a joke pure and simple. The thing
    does not work as advertise. The competition was great but I think they may
    need to go back to the drawing boards.

    My evaluation: One car in each category means the

    Full Size Luxury Sedan class:

    Handling: DTS
    Exterior: DTS
    Interior: DTS
    Fastest Liftoff: LS 400
    Stability: DTS
    Ergonomics: DTS
    technology: DTS In the springler system, the
    rain-sense wipers came on automatically and very
    efficient too.

    Note: This is due to my personal experience so my
    subjective views does not have anything to do with
    anyone elses views but one's own experience.
  • Disappointed to not find ANY postings about the Speed Sensitive Suspension system (SSS). I have had to replace five Suspension struts on my 93 DeVille (133,000 miles) because of failures. Don't know the reason. Design must be very faulty.
    Now my SSS warning light is on again. Probably another strut replacement at $750.00 a pop.
    Overall, I love the car. Absolutely no rust (in Rochester NY yet!) I've crawled under the car and it looks brand new except for the bumper mounts which are rusty. Everything else works great (right now).
    You'd think that the replacement struts would have been redesigned to correct whatever is causing the high failure rate.
    Any comments? Has GM ever acknowledged a design problem with the 1993 version of the SSS?
  • 14151415 Posts: 249
    billgolfer9::::::Had a 91 Deville Touring Sedan that the light came on around 55k saying to check the SSS; which the only fix was to replace the strut because a $5.00 electronic sensor had gone south. On the touring sedan the suspension stayed in a firm mode which was great and was no problem; strut was not replaced.

    The rest of the story....GM replaced the 4.9 engine at 59k miles due to "piston slap" and in Nov 96; I purchased a new 96 Deville which has 47k on it now. I sold the 91 privately in Feb 97 with the light still on for the strut which if I recall was CCR--Computer Controlled Ride.

    At $800.00 a pop for a strut that wasn't wore out; for the electronic sender was failing and couldn't be fixed--but I was not in the mood to spend the 1600 needed to replace the other hand to balance the pair.

    tccad1:::::::The Caddy does not provide any tax benefits to the business for its wife's pleasure only. I drive the 99 Intrigue w/Shortstar 3.5 engine which handles like the STS and loves the 80+ cruising. The driveline is great--brakes are junk--front suspension rattles--internal strut design flaw which is a pain but the car proves to be fun. Would like to have the 2001 STS for the 96 Deville replacement--however I fight the urge by staying away from the dealer--saves a ton of dough.

    Wife's going south for the winter and if the I can resist temptation until the 20th of Nov; then the 96 Deville goes south with her and I win. Caddy just coughed up new chrome wheels to replace the originals and I put 4 new Michelins on, so it looks showroom new. It's smooth at speed and loves to rock and roll...

    Have yourself a good week and keep moving the iron!!!!
  • tccad1tccad1 Posts: 46
    Etharmon: Nationwide Cadillac is the lowest of all luxury brands. MB..BMW..Lexus are somewhere around 75%. Cadillac will always have the older clientele that refuses to finance anything. About 0.9%, no, cadillac will never have something like that. The reason is because GM gives each brand x amount of dollars to spend on rebates. What is really happening is that instead of giving $4,000 rebates on an 01 product, they use it to increase the residual and buy down the rate on a lease. Knowing that a majority of your clients lease or pay cash, it doesn't make sense to use that money on a special finance program.

    Craig2000: This subject will be long, please bear with me. I really don't like the term program car. It means so many different things. Technically speaking, a program car is usually a rental vehicle. It is therefore a used car. A used car can't take advantage of the special rates and residuals even though it is an '01. It must not have been previously titled. I believe in MI even a dealer demo must be titled. In IL, as long as a demo doesn't have more than 7,500 miles on it, we can still use the special lease program. Word of caution: States have different rules on which vehicles must be titled and which ones don't. As long as a vehicle has NOT been previously titled, it CAN use the special program. A PEP car is a gm executive or a special event car (Like the cars used by professional golfers in the Senior open). Usually they won't have more than 1,000 to 1,500 miles on them. Generally, these do not have to be titled. They are considered demos for the corporation rather than the dealer. Therefore, in IL for example, we don't have to have them titled. In MI, I believe you do. As far as getting one in IL, I will have to check the county you live in to see if I can do the paperwork for you and still let you title it in MI..which saves you a bunch in taxes. It is a little more difficult, but not impossible.

    Philly: Pop Con stands for Poular Configurations. I believe I have gone over this before somewhere. If you need me to, I would be happy to repeat it.

    1415: Thanks for the clarification on the wife driving it part. Absolutely true. I must have misread your earlier post, thought you were driving it for some reason. And I will try to move a ton of iron! The terms I could post here on the lingo, wow! Maybe I will make a contest on it! Thinking a little harder, I could make a contest on just what we call different sums of money. EX: half a chop is how much?
  • philly7philly7 Posts: 94
    Tccad: How do I go about checking to see what incentives are being offered by Cadillac, GM, GMAC etc. at any given time? By using the term "incentives" I mean rebates, lease loyalty, gimmees, gotchya etc.

    I am picking up my car we just ordered in January and I am sure that they will offer some incentives around the first of the year.

    If anything, interest rates will be stable or coming down by then to off-set higher fuel prices which always impact luxury car sales to one extent or another.
  • tccad1, it would be a PEP car (I have leased a couple in the past) so I am familiar with how it works. As far as my county goes, it would be Wayne County Mich. I don't think different counties in Mi have any jurisdiction over title of cars. Not sure though. I had a chance at a 2000 PEP car in Ill, but turned it down due to the logistics of it all. If you can provide any more info on leasing in Ill and title in Mi, I would appriciate it. Still have a request in for a 2000 to buy, but those HID headlights and 17" wheels are starting to sway me to 2001...
  • 1999 with under 9,000 miles for about $32k or "try" to get a 2000 MY for high 30's. I know about the improvements for 2000, but the 99's seem to have more pep or pick up? Has anyone noticed this?? Regular gas is sure tempting, however, I read for maximum performance, stick to premium! What gives? Any input 99 vs 2000 appreciated.
  • Sorry all, I got confused - I'll move it to the Seville board!
  • donw3donw3 Posts: 6

    I doubt if there is much difference between 97 and 99. There may be some changes, but they are probably limited. As for changes in Northstars between 99 and 2000, they may be significant. I have never driven a 2000, but I can say that the earlier model Northstars seem to have plenty of pep or pickup. I had a 94 Eldo before I bought my 97 Deville, and the Eldo ran fine. I was concerned that some of the oil leak problems with the Pre-97 motors might develop with it, but they never did. If you don't care about cost/mile for fuel, then a premium fuel motor might be a better choice. If you do, then a regular fuel motor should cut the cost of operation significantly. The other thought, however, is that the difference in cost of a 99 vs. a 2000 car could buy you a lot of premium fuel. A 99 under 9K miles at 32K sounds pretty fair, the model change may have caused 99's to have an even lower resale value than they would otherwise have had. I did look at one that had an asking price of 25K, but it already had 29K miles on it. That's very high for a 99. For my money, I can't see the extra cash for the 2000 model right now. I think the new model Devilles are absolutely beautiful, but not worth the extra bucks to me. I guess I have too many other ways to spend my money. I can't wait to see the 2001 Goldwing 1800 motorcycles. I'm a serious touring bike freak as well as a Caddy lover, so for me keeping the extra cash and thinking about other toys is the route to go.

    Don Williams
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