Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

vocus

If they really sit down and add it up, they are probably spending more money replacing the various interior trim pieces (door panels, a-pillar trim, etc.) in the car. Not to mention the time of the mechanics, the mileage on the dealer loaners, the risk of bad publicity, etc. So they would probably save money by just giving me another one and taking this one back. I am sure they do not see it that way though.

If they would break down and gimme another car, I would definitely consider another VW in the future. At this rate, I would never have another one though. The reason I say this is because if they would replace the car, that would tell me they stand behind their product. If not, then they can keep it in the future.

I think I am going to try to sell the car myself anyway soon. I am just growing quickly tired of these trips back and forth to the shop all the time.

mseals

There is a guy in my office who had his car bought back from VW. It was a Beetle with the 1.8t. Apparently he had trouble from the get go and only had the car about 8 months. The problems he had were all mechanical and it related to the engine. MAF going bad, Engine cutting off, engine bogging down at idle, fouled plugs. It seems like he just got a bad engine because I thought that engine was pretty stable. It has gotten nothing but praise from what I hear.

protege_fan

Man this is crazy. IF they give you another car, you'd be happy with VW's. IF they don't you hate VW and never look at them again.

I thought your issue was with reliability and build quality. Now it seems it's just about what they're going to give you.

vocus

What I meant is that if they do not want to replace my car, then I am not going to have faith in the company to correct their mistakes. If they do, then I would be assured that if I had a problem it would be taken care of.

I went back and corrected my post to reflect this.

badgerfan

After reading this soap opera day after day, I am convinced that it is a dead heat between which makes more noise, vocus or his Jetta.

I don't understand how automakers can still be fighting rattles. My old 90 Taurus went ten years and never developed a rattle, and my new one is two years old and solid as a rock. Maybe occasionally the US automakers do some things right!

vocus

That is what I am trying to say! I mean, this car is brand new and had an MSRP of $24,675 on the window when I picked it out. There is no darn reason there should be rattles in a car of that price. Before this, I had two Mazda Proteges (a 1999 and a 2001), both bought new, both driven the same way over the same roads. Then never rattled (38K on the first one when traded, 20K on the second one). Those cars cost $15K and $18.5K, respectively. These rattles make no sense at this price point, and I will not accept them.

badgerfan

You should have kept the Mazdas. Looks like you got rid of two solid cars, lost a ton of $ on depreciation in the first two years of each Mazda, and now have a Jetta that rattles.

If you don't get this resolved and can't stand the vehicle, you are going to take another depreciation bath on your VW when you dump it. Good luck.

I certainly wouldn't want to dump money on new cars every two years.

vocus

The Mazda lost value rather quickly, only because I drive alot and they had some scratches and stuff. I do feel like now that I should have kept my 2001 Protege, but it's a little too late for that.

If I do get tired of this car and sell it, I can pretty much sell it real close to what I owe on it and get it (VWs are very popular in the MD/DC area), so it won't be a great loss.

If this isn't solved and I end up selling the car, I plan to get a 1-2 year old used car with low miles and some warranty left as to not have to worry as much about depreciation.

The thing is, I have always wanted a Jetta since they came out. My attainable "dream car" if you will, so that's why I got this one. Now that I have had what I always wanted, a car will be just a means of transportation from now on.

protege_fan

The Mazda lost value rather quickly...

Ok, the only reason it lost value was because you went to trade it in. IF you'd kept it, it would have the same value to you as the day you bought it. It still moved and didn't have any serious problems.

ANY car will lose value if you go to trade it in within 8 months. How much is irrelevant because they ALL lose value and you will NEVER recoup that money.

bpi

"If I do get tired of this car and sell it, I can pretty much sell it real close to what I owe on it and get it (VWs are very popular in the MD/DC area), so it won't be a great loss."

Would you please refresh my memory? How much do you still owe on it?

pat

Why do I get the impression we are going in circles here?

Maybe someone can help us out and post something new and different - on topic and everything!

;->

Pat
Sedans Host

bpi

Vocus,
You still owe $25K, don't you? So how "real close" do you expect to be able to sell it for?

alyssazmom

Quoting your $25,000 MSRP constantly to prove that you shouldn't have rattles means nothing. NO new car should have rattles regardless of the price. You could buy a new $9,000 H. Excel and should expect it to be rattle/problem free. And think how low your payments would be!

However, at some point you've got to realize that a car is just that- a car. A means of transportation that should get you from point A to point B safely. You're lucky that you can afford a car with ABS and a zillion airbags. I know I feel lucky that I can as well. A rattle is an annoyance but doesn't affect the safety of the car.

And your VW Jetta IS reliable. Not one mechanical failure has happen, it has been all annoying rattles. Rattles don't indicate an unreliable car. Electrical failures (and not one's caused by a sloppy mechanic), engine problems, bad brakes- all show poor reliability- rattles don't.

Seriously, you've bought more cars in 3 years than most people buy over 15-20 years! Might I suggest the new 2003 Toyota Corolla, a used Camry, a 2002 Honda Civic (yes Justin, I know you got a Civic you hated) or an Accord?

However it has been interesting to visit the Vocus board every day...

Carrie

pat

Folks, seriously...

We really *are* going around in circles. Nothing is being said here that we haven't been over and over (and over).

It's time to move on.

Perhaps Paul will let us know the outcome of his dilemma, but I really don't think we need to keep saying the same things to him again and again, and getting the same responses again and again.

Pat
Sedans Host

justin

can anyone reference a page number in my FACTORY manual for me about my 2002 Turbo needing a cool down period?

VW is too smart to require that. they would be paying for turbo's out the ying-yang if they couldn't handle a little abuse. to me, turbo = more aggressive driving anyway, or else why get turbo?

venus537

the new guide lines indicate it's fine to still use the 91 octane fuel. to get peak hp you'll still need to use the higher octane fuel. but you'll also have their blessings to use 87 octane fuel. this is the big change. hence, the new sticker on the gas cap that says 87/91.

jsstover

Are you speaking of the hmmmm you hear when the engine is running or the hmmmm you hear when you have forgotten something in the car and open the door and the close it without starting the car?
You have to consider, that if it is hot out, your engine is running and you have the A/C on, that pretty much every mechanical feature is wide open.
If you are sitting idle, the thermo is wide open pushing as much coolant through as possible, the fan is trying to get air through the radiator, the alt is having a full drain from the compressor, rad fan, and int fan. Something is bound to make a little noise.

Does it make an excessive hmmm?

justin

the hmmmmmm noise is normal. both of my Jettas have done it. it almost sounds like a big wheeze, like someone letting out a big breath, or a big trucks brakes letting out air. i KNOW that is has to do with the A/C, since it only does it then, but no biggie. nothing actually is wrong.

our VW's have lots of wonderful mechanical noises (not rattles ). the sound of the a/c wheeze for a second or three, the sound of the fuel pump getting ready when you open the door first thing in the morning, and, last, but most importantly, the OUTSTANDING whistle of the turbo (i prefer to call it the jet engine) working it's magic on all those poor helpless wannabe Fast and Furious Eclipses and Preludes

blueguydotcom

A turbo eclipse and any late model prelude will devour a Jetta in handling and straightline acceleration, Justin. The only magic you can work with a Jetta on those cars is a disappearing in the rearview mirror trick.

mseals

I think that turbo eclipse is on the mark, but I thought the prelude did a 0-60 in 7.2 sec or so. I don't know what the 1/4 mile time is though and tha tis more important in terms of rearview mirro watching I do know the eclipse is in the mid 6's for 0-60 though.

venus537

but for us lazy souls like myself who use an automatic, the 1.8t is a better performer than the prelude with an automatic (in terms of acceleration of course). heck, i don't think the 200hp prelude was available with an automatic.

justin

that is strange. perhaps it is my driving then. believe it or not, the only car that has beat me from a light, straight out, in my AUTO 1.8t, has been a freaking NORTHSTAR Caddy. that was embarrassing, but then i thought, "you go Aunt Brenda!"

"Even if the Prelude ran to 60 in near equal times to the Jetta, once the cars were asked to do any sort of real road holding, the 'Lude would crush the portly, sloppy handling Jetta."

perhaps your lesser HP model Jetta is a little slow? i also think perhaps your car (or your driving) is a little defected. my BASE suspension Jetta, as i have always said, can keep up with anything in a curve, it just makes much more noise doing it. don't be afraid, and see for yourself. it is also 8000 times more fun for me than the 2002 325Ci with sport suspension, too. it actually requires some skillfull driving....the flat cornering cars take out too much of the fun factor.

late model preludes can't get out of their own way if they are caught in a NORMAL driving situation. it is great fun to startle the no torque 4 cylinder drivers, and watch them frantically downshift. all i do is press the gas a little, no downshifting, no noise (except for the whistle), just smooth speed. now, STARTING the competetion at 65 MPH on the highway in fourth gear, maybe, because the VTECS are screaming at 6500RPMs, but i am not even sure about that. my car still has the torque advantage. the 195hp Prelude only has a 15hp advantage. it is fairly common knowledge that Honda's engines met their match with VW engines, even the 12v VR6 was just as rev-happy as the VTEC. in the 80's they had the great technology, but other cars have taken the best parts of it, and made it livable.

Honda needs a new trick.

and Eclipses seem to blow out blue smoke and die when i see them. not counting the new ones. i actually like those. outside of the new Tuburon, they are the best looking cheap 3 doors out there.

8u6hfd

It's somewhere in Chapter 3 of your owner's manual. (I think it's in Tips for operating your vehicle)

It states something like:

After periods of hard driving....you should allow the turbo to cool down for a few minutes.

newcar31

"my BASE suspension Jetta, as i have always said, can keep up with anything in a curve, it just makes much more noise doing it."

Stop it. Honestly, Edmunds is no place for this kind of garbage.

"it is fairly common knowledge that Honda's engines met their match with VW engines"

Common knowledge? Please explain.

8u6hfd

I'm scratching my head still, since the Honda fanatics still think Honda engines are the best.

Maybe it's a comparision of real world driving conditions versus the drag strip driving conditions.

newcar31

what is being said here? Honda engines used to be the best but now VW engines are? That's what I'm getting out of all of this. What criteria is being used in coming to this conclusion?

8u6hfd

Looks like personal opinion to me

newcar31

That's what it sounds like to me also but "common knowledge" and "personal opinion" are two different things. See what I am getting at?

blueguydotcom

He lives on his own planet. Simple as that. anyone who thinks a base suspension Jetta can keep up with real sports coupes in the corners is totally delusional. I'm not going near the BMW thing again as he's flat out lying. Or he doesn't know how to drive.

I don't know why I write to you, Justin, as you obviously have the fastest, best handling car in the world. Regardless of everybody else's experiences, you and your base suspension Jetta (with 15s no less! lol) can trounce every car out there. BMW...bah, it can't handle a base Jetta 1.8T. Prelude...bah, it can't handle the base Jetta. Whatever...

fish8

Can you please do all of us a favor and try to be as positive as possible in your responses. I know we all don't agree with everything that's posted on this thread, but almost every post of yours is ALWAYS negative and derogatory(to both individuals and cars). To be honest, it gets very tiring to read. I think the bottom line is that we all can disagree and still be CIVIL. How about giving it a try???????

Kirstie_H

Yes, let's all give peace a chance. Try smiling as you post... maybe that will help.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

newcar31

I don't see anything wrong with Blueguy's posts. He seems to know what he is talking about, says what he feels, and isn't full of BS. Justin on the other hand...well...I dunno. I can't figure out if he is just saying these things to get a reaction out of people or if he truly believes what he is posting. Either way, it keeps me coming back to the Jetta board.

fish8

Your telling me that you don't think blueguy's posts are overly negative. Maybe I should go back and reread them. I have been know to be wrong before ;-)

blueguydotcom

most of the 7+ times you see are for the slower SH model. The base Prelude is actually faster acclerating (it doesn't have that overly sophisticated and heavy ATTS system on the front wheels bogging it down) and almost as good through the twisties.

Even if the Prelude ran to 60 in near equal times to the Jetta, once the cars were asked to do any sort of real road holding, the 'Lude would crush the portly, sloppy handling Jetta.

I'm not a fan of VTEC (Vanishing Torque in the Engine Compartment) and I don't really dig on Hondas, but the last gen Prelude was an unabashed sport coupe that could soundly thump a Jetta. I drove a 2000 Prelude (a friend's) quite often and now I have a Jetta. There's no comparing them. If someone in 2000 or 2001 wanted a quick, ultra-reliable, nimble, almost-race-car-like vehicle for under 20k, the choice was clear when compared to the Jetta or horribly assembled Eclipse.

pat

Give it a rest, folks -- Kirstie has given you some great advice.

We are not going to get back into beating each other up here. As one of our members noted, it is certainly possible to disagree agreeably.

And you could always agree to disagree and move on. Never yet have I seen these petty arguments change anyone's mind.

Pat
Sedans Host

fish8

I believe this was mentioned on this board, but I'll bring it up again. What is the noise that appears when the drivers door opens? It sounds like a slight buzz. I think someone mentioned it was the fuel pump or something. I have never heard this on any other car. What are the benefits of this?

justin

and, please Kirstie, leave this in here, then I PROMISE, i will change topic: see my smile just there??

i am NOT saying that my Jetta is BETTER than anyone elses car. i AM saying that none of the cars mentioned are BETTER than mine. i get so tired of people coming in here and whining and dissing the Jetta, yet i am somehow from another planet because i support the car? the FACT is, that if you put a base Jetta and a Prelude on the same exit ramp, neither one will handle the real world corner any faster than the other. yes, the Prelude will corner FLATTER, but that is it.

i don't understand why no one understands that. flatter cornering is flatter cornering. unless you are on a racetrack, it does not translate into anything better than what i have in my car. it is proven to me everyday out in the real world.

as far as engines, again, Honda used to be the best, but what i am saying is, they are not anymore. even Ford and Hyundai make high-revving smooth four cylinders. they don't hold the "patent" on smooth efficient powerplants anymore. all i am saying. in fact, some car makers have taken Honda's good stuff, and made it better. now, you see, Honda is doing the same thing. see the RSX engine.

i don't honestly care if anyone insults me. it means i am more right than that person is willing to admit

fish8

I filled up my car yesterday with 93 octane and think I might feel a slight increase in power. I am sure it is just my brain with no actual increase in acceleration, but you never know.

BTW - I drive a 2.0 5speed.

justin

you know, the 93 octane might not mean as much as actually getting good vs. bad gas. what i mean is, you can buy a "bad batch" of gas, any octane.

not sure if the 93 can really make a difference at all in the 2.0 though. i don't see how it could....but anything is possible i suppose. i am still just running the 89 (middle grade) gas. now that i know i am use 87 (cheapest), i wonder if having used the 89 for over 10k miles, if it will affect my car to switch. probably not, only 2 points difference.

i feel another experiment coming on.....:)

blueguydotcom

When you open the door the first time it's your fuel pump priming. The benefit...um...it sounds neat? I'd imagine it has something to do with starting the car, but someone with more engine background could give you a clearer answer.

>>the FACT is, that if you put a base Jetta and a Prelude on the same exit ramp, neither one will handle the real world corner any faster than the other. yes, the Prelude will corner FLATTER, but that is it. <<

Here's the facts:
Jetta .78 g and 7.7 seconds to 60 (with a VR6!)(http://caranddriver.com)

Prelude .83g and 6.9 seconds
(http://caranddriver.com/)

Edmunds had a little comparo with both cars in different tests too. The 17 inxh shod sport suspension 2002 1.8T pulled 64.1 mph through the slalom. The Honda Prelude in a different test pulled 64.9 mph through the slalom. Keep in mind, the 1.8T had 17s and sport suspension, two items that markedly transform the car and allow one to go FASTER through corners.

So, straight up, you're trying to refute hard, cold numbers. Plop the same driver into both cars and he should be all accounts outperform the base 1.8T Jetta with a Prelude.

I won't bother responding again if you attempt to refute what every publication shows: the Prelude offering superior 0-60 and handling numbers.

fish8

What engine do you have? 2.0?

8u6hfd

has a 1.8T with the automatic (don't know what year)

I think he has the 15" rims also.

fish8

From what I hear, i believe that they know offer the 1.8t engine with the base Jetta. Does that start in '03 or '02?

8u6hfd

Not 2002.

The GL only has the 2.0L or the 1.9L TDI

fish8

Must be '03 then.

blueguydotcom

03 the GL can be purchased with the 1.8T. The GLS will come automatically with a sunroof.

Visit vwvortex.com for more info.

fish8

Thanks BlueGuy!!

bpi

I believe when Justin mentioned the cornering prowess of the "base" Jetta, he meant a Jetta with the base suspension. With the Sport Suspension and 17" tires, it would have absolutely slaughtered the Prelude. Add a rear anti-sway bar and it'll outcorner everything on this planet.

fish8

Thanks BlueGuy!!

newcar31

Same thing isn't it?