Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

fish8

The reason GM is the largest car manufaturer and makes lot of money is because of the their truck line up. They make large amounts of money on their Siverados, Tahoes, Suburbans and so on. My wife drives a 2002 Tahoe and so far it's been a great vehicle.

vocus

A friend of mine's mother has a 2000 Tahoe (the first year of the redesign), and she really likes the truck. I drove it once, a long time ago, but it was wayyy too big for me. It was a nice ride though.

samsvr6

Everyone seem to compliment the Ecotec engine. Can anyone tell me why is it so special when compared to the other 4 bangers that power the Camrys, Accords, and Subarus?

fish8

I agree, it is a BIG vehicle.....too big for me a well. But, it is very nice.

vocus

I rented a 2001 Saturn L Series with this engine for a week, when my Protege was in the shop for body work. I really liked the engine alot in the car. It provided great pickup, and wonderful fuel economy as well. I also drove a Subaru Outback with the 2.5-liter 4, and it was louder and felt less powerful by comparison. Of course, the car was heavier too, but that wouldn't have made the engine sound throbby like it did.

I haven't driven a recent Camry or Accord, so cannot comment on those cars. I hear the new Camry is at Lexus-like levels of refinement though.

blueguydotcom

Vocus, Subies use a Boxer engine which is pretty different from the straight up bland 4 bangers out there. A Subie boxer has horizonatally opposed cylinders all resting in their own oil. The engines produce quite a bit of torque and do sound decidely different from traditional 4 cylinder engines.

BTW the subaru not only had a heavier engine but a much heavier drivetrain and quite a bit more power loss when going to all 4 wheels.

And I've driven the 02 V6 Camry SE. It was quite loud, thumped over road irregularities, had several rattles and the engine appallingly weak at all points. The car's only strong suit came from a decent feeling interior. Beyond that it felt like a Buick.

fish8

I'm guessing the '02 Sunfire I'm driving does NOT have the ecotec engine. The engine in this car is loud and obnoxious.

vocus

It has the pushrod 2.2 engine whose design dates back to 1991 or earlier. It's an OHV engine for crying out loud!

fish8

Why are you so knowledgable about these cars? Just curious.

vocus

I used to have a 1996 Cavalier.

Also, I am a car enthusiast. That started when my mother bought me my first Matchbox car when I was 2 years old. I read all kinds of publications on the internet, and other mediums.

I would really like to get into something to deal with cars, but there is no money for me in sales, and I stink as a salesman. Also, I thought about being a mechanic, but don't know about that yet.

anonymous02

Aren't most if not all cars OHV (over head valves) nowadays?

sntx

I have thought about becoming a mechanic as well. Have you checked out VWs technical training program?

If not the info is at http://www.vwthink.com/

I just wish I had time to go to school full time and keep my current job. Actually I have the time but my work schedule changes so often that is makes going to school very difficult.

fish8

I also consider myself a car enthusiast and would also love to work in the car industry somehow. But, not sure in what capacity. I read Car and Driver, Automobile magazine, Motor Trend and about 2 or 3 others. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I really enjoy all things cars.....except Nascar.

fish8

I just got a call from the dealer and (surprise) they couldn't duplicate the rattles. I know they probably drove it over them smoothest roads they could find.

deaner14

My new '02 Jetta TDI has some paint problems on the rear trunk, bumper and left rear quarter panel. It looked like tree sap but wasn't "raised" on the paint. The dealer said they have a contract with a local detailer that would do his best to get the anomalous material off the car. If I wasn't satisfied, they'd repaint the area (I'm guessing spot paint). Well the detailer came and did his thing. Did his best and got it to 80%. I told him the dealerships offer and he said, "No way" on letting them repaint it (or anyone else; devalues the car too much).

I already have 2500 miles on the car and can't see them taking it back.

Got any ideas on where I should take this complaint; What I should ask for?

Thanks

vocus

How long have you had the car?

I would call VWoA and tell them what's going on, just so you have an open claim with them. Tell them the dealer tried to fix the car, to no avail. You might also want to go to the service manager first, before VW, to get some recourse.

I would ask for the car to be repainted if I were you. It's gonna make the value of the car drop though, which sucks. And you have had the car too long to do anything about it now.

vocus

I can't afford to go to school at all right now. I wanna go though, but can't decide what I wanna do. I work for a PR-related company, and thought about majoring in PR as well. I don't know though. So once I decide what I wanna do, then I will go from there. Being a VW mechanic would be cool though, then I could diagnose my own rattles!

vocus

Tell them you will be taking a ride with the mechanic today when you pick the car up from them.

vocus

Actually, most cars on the road today have DOHC engines, or at least OHC ones. Some American cars still have OHV engines, but DOHCs produce more power in a smaller engine, because more exhaust and fuel can get into the engine. They also have to be revved up more though, unlike OHV engines.

vocus

Thanks for the link about the VW mechanics school. I would really like to work with VWs, it seems pretty fun. I would have to go to college and get through the standard program first though.

deaner14

Had the car a little more than a month. Talked to the GM of the dealership who told me to bring it in to inspect it; didn't sound too pleased. Wanted some ammo before I did that...

thanks

vocus

Of course they aren't going to be pleased when you find something wrong with the car that's their fault. I went through that too (surprise, surprise).

If I were you, I would talk to the GM of the dealership first, then go to VWoA as the next step.

It is too late to take the car back, unfortunately.

deaner14

Had the car a little more than a month. Talked to the GM of the dealership who told me to bring it in to inspect it; didn't sound too pleased. Wanted some ammo before I did that...

thanks

anonymous02

Overhead cam engines still have overhead valves.

????

vocus

But the OHC runs the valvetrain though. It's different somehow, but I don't (yet) have the technical experience to know how.

justin

they seem to make quite a bit of money, and their is definitely never a chance of getting laid off. but jeez, have you ever seen a mechanics hands? my stepdad raced corvettes and worked on Nascar circuit - over 20 years ago. hands have STILL not healed right. cuts and scrapes so deep, it is just bad.

not afraid of getting my hands dirty, but i want to keep them looking human stick hand in engine, fan cuts it off. ouch. hot oil = third degree burns. ouch.

not for me, no way, no how!

vocus

That is one thing I don't really care about. I have always liked cars, but also like to stay clean. That's about the only thing stopping me from being a mechanic, being dirty all the time. They do make good money though.

sntx

OHV engines have the camshaft below the cylinder head...more info:

 http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/ohv_vs_ohc.htm

anonymous02

#8277 of 8280 Anonymous... by vocus
"But the OHC runs the valvetrain though. It's different somehow, but I don't (yet) have the technical experience to know how. "

#8279 of 8280 Justin... by vocus
"That is one thing I don't really care about. I have always liked cars, but also like to stay clean. That's about the only thing stopping me from being a mechanic, being dirty all the time. They do make good money though. "

It sounds like being a mechanic is not for you.

pat

Um, pardon me for interrupting... ;-)

We keep losing sight of the fact that many folks come to this discussion looking for information on Jettas and aren't really interested in these off-topic subjects that many of you keep discussing.

There is nothing wrong with this stream of consciousness conversation, but it doesn't belong in a discussion that is supposed to focused on a vehicle.

Please check out the Volkswagen Owners-Meet the Members discussion in your Owners Club.

That is the place to carry on with your exchange of comments that are not about the Jetta sedan.

Thanks!

Pat
Sedans Host

fish8

I did drive with the Tech when I got to the dealer and guess what.....WE heard the rattle. I told them the next time I bring my car in for service they could look further and they said they would provide a loaner. That's fine with me.

vocus

I told you! I am glad you finally got someone to hear the noise inside the car. Isn't it great knowing it's not you that's losing your mind?

vocus

I went to this Saturn-sponsored preview for its ION, at FedEx field tonight. They had 3 ION models, along with 4 competitors. Those were: the Honda Civic LX, the Toyota Corolla LE, the Ford Focus SE (110hp), and the VW Jetta GLS 2.0.

Most people preferred either the Jetta or the ION, a little tiny bit more to the Jetta. I was thoroughly surprised! This, a 4 year old design, is edging out a car that's not even for sale yet? And with the weak base suspension and 2.0 as well?

Peoples' negative comments included the body lean, and back seat room. Nothing else. Most said they liked how "heavy" the Jetta felt to them, like it was very well planted. They also liked convenience features abound, like the center sunvisor, cool blue lit dashboard, big radio display, adjustable armrest, and the lit power controls on the door.

I was really surprised at hearing these peoples' comments. And this was a consumer group basically, no dealers or salespeople or anything like that.

Goes to show, people stick with what they like. The ION was a very nice ride too, but not nearly as stylish as the Jetta.

justin

i didn't know you like Saturns. interesting. my mom liked the one she drove. i give them 5 more years. GM should have kept Olds and dumped the plastic Saturns in my opinion.

no surprise that the Ion was not as well liked at the Jetta at all. a friend was looking at Civics, Corollas, and Proteges. he could not stand the thought of spending 16k on any of those cars. I told him to look at the Elantra GT. he refused. (name snob ) he went and bought a 2001 Golf used. VW are just nicer to some people I guess.

newcar31

I don't want to start a flame war, but I am curious about why you like the Elantra GT so much? Besides the warranty and price, what makes this car better than the others in it's class?

justin

well, to keep this on jetta topic, i like the VW's more than any of them. BUT, if i didn't have $20k to spend, i would spend $13500 on a sporty Elantra GT with power, leather, ABS, warranty, and a functional hatchback instead of $15k on a Civic LX, $17k on a Civic EX, and so on. i just really like it - i think the Elantra represents a HUGE value out there in the marketplace. of course, this is for people that keep their cars. for two reasons. resale isn't the best on Hyundai's, and the warranty isn't so great if you won't keep the car long enough to actually save money by having the long warranty instead of just going out and buying a new one at 36k miles.

if it were me, i would either go for cheap and get the Elantra, OR, rearrange finances, and get the Jetta/Golf. two different extremes, i know.

8u6hfd

A while back C&D drive a hot cars for under $20,000.

In the same issue, they tested the Elantra GT...they loved it so much they wish they got the car earlier for that comparison testing.

The main difference in suspension tuning is Hyundai kept the Euro-spec suspension, rather than the soft American and Korean suspension (softer and cushier)

doudoudid

my friend is in the market of a jetta V6, can anyone advice us what will be the best deal for an 02 model? according to edmunds, it would be pretty close to invoice. but i saw the ad today, they are offering $1777 off MSRP, which is also close to invoice. if that's the case may be we should go for 03.

another question, is the 4 turbo better than the V6, we are new to VW, any advices will be appreciated.

thanks in advance

chmeeee

The new VR6 (24-valve) is 200 hp, the old one (12-valve) is 174 hp, so you will want to find out what you are looking at, because the 24V was introduced mid-year.

As for which is better, the 1.8T or VR6, the debate will never end. The 1.8T is a bit slower than then new VR6, but is easier to modify if he is into that kind of thing. It will also be in all likelyhood cheaper.

I would also suggest he try the TDI, but thats my personal bias. I dont think I could ever go back to a car that gets less than 40 mpg, and it still has plenty of power.

Either way, good luck to your friend!

8u6hfd

People like the turbo better than the mainly because it's cheaper and offers comparable performance. It costs more in maintenance though (5000 oil changes versus 10,000 mile in the VR6). People like the fact you can chip it and easily get to 200 bhp.

The 03 Version of the VR6 (with an engine mod) gets more power, and only available in GLX (5-speed auto only) or GLI trim

newcar31

I think it would be really sweet if they made a R32 Jetta version. 237 hp, 6 speed, AWD.

blueguydotcom

unfortunately they'd probably put power-robbing 4motion on the R32, thus negating the power gains.

newcar31

The R32 does have "4motion" or whatever Audi/VW wants to call it. At least if it had AWD, it wouldn't have the beam axle anymore. A Jetta R32 would be kinda like a mini Audi S4.

vocus

The 03 with the engine mod doesn't get more power, does it? I thought when you chip a turbo it also adds boost to it and would therefore have more power than the VR6 DOHC does. I know a Stage I APR chip has 220hp, vs. 200 for the VR6 (std.).

Also, the 1.8T is one of Ward's 10 Best Engines, neither VR6 is. And the original VR6 is older than the 1.8T's design too ('93 vs. '95).

Also, you get better fuel economy too. The downside is the lag, but you get used to it after driving the car for a little bit. At least I have.

vocus

You can get a Jetta right now and bump it to 280hp if you wanna. Get a Jetta 1.8T and do a Stage III APR on it. $4000 for the package. So for ~$25,000, you would have a 280hp, stick shifted beast. Of course, the torque steer would probably split the car in half though.

vocus

I wanted to check out the ION because it's replacing the aged, dead S Series, which is Saturn's original feat. Also, the ION is all Saturn too (I believe). The L Series was based heavily off the German Opal something or other, I believe.

I liked the ION, but issues with front leg room and steering feel keep me from buying one myself. And the fact that I love my Jetta is another.

doudoudid

thanks for the info for model type, it's very educational....
but how about the price? i called one dealer, they said they would do $3000 off MSRP for the remaining 02, but my friend is looking for a silver that they don't have in stock, for 03, do you guys think we could get that at invoice?

it's funny, VW jetta hasn't got a forum for "what many did you pay?" like the other cars, do you guys like to share about your purchase price?

thanks again,

vocus

If I were your friend, I would save an additional $1500 and sacrifice on the color. But that's just me. You might get extremely lucky and find a GLS VR6 (from earlier in the model year) left over, but I doubt it. I am sure they are all gone.

Personally, I would save some money and get the 1.8T GL for 2003. It doesn't have alloys or a sunroof, but everything else is there from the GLS, including the 1.8T. About $19K or so on the road probably.

8u6hfd

the 03 VR6 (well mid 02 VR6)...which I'm calling the engine mod...is the 24 valve head.

chips....not sure about the results of the 2002 models (180 bhp)...the Upsolute gets the power to 192 at the wheels (of course more boost).

I think I remember reading about the APR chip compared to the Split Second BCS and the APR put out about 200 to the wheels as well (of course results always vary)

doudoudid

since we can get around invoice for 03, we will pick the 03.

a dealer said they still have some 02 v6, and the one we went to, the only 02 on the lots are black or white, some of them got "no needed" options, but now is the question, "sorry last one" what is the different between GL and GLS? i looked at the standard features, they are almost identical, except the $2000 price different??????

thanks