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Comments
From the 100% double-sided galvonized steel to the MICHELIN tires from the factory, the VWs are a cut above the rest. I have owned and worked on my own vehciles for many-many years and I am always impressed with the Geman design of VW. Every place I look, I see an impressive design and quality parts throughout.
(Not many folks realize that the coil-pack problems are on the 1.8t AUDI engine that VW uses)
Another simple example of the quality materials is the VW dashboard. Even after 15 years it will be intact and show very little 'wear'. On many other vehicles, the dashboard will crack, split, shrivel or discolor after 15 years.
In the trunk, there is 'carpeting' on the trunk-lid and a stainless-steel wear araa.
Under the hood, common tasks are easy to perform. Replacing a headlight bulb takes no tools although there is a sealed, protective cover over the rear of the headlights. The serpentine belt on the 2.0L can be removed within 30 seconds using a simple wrench on the tensionor. The oil filter is reachable from ABOVE. (On some cars, a front wheel has to be removed!! On Hondas, the oil-filter can ONLY be reached from below and even then is a contorsionist exersize)
The VW battery is covered to direct acidic gasses AWAY from the critial underhood components.
The hood itself has a very easy to locate pull-tab for the safety-release.
There is a micro-switch on the hood that is part of the alarm system.
I could go on and on for a long time about VWs and the quality design and materials.
It is unfortunate that the BUILD QUALITY on the VWs from Mexico is so poor. This just proves that a superiour design can be compromized by skimping during assembly of the unit. This, coupled with poorly-trained dealerships has really clobbered VWs reputation.
Some mitigations, 1. I do my own maintenance. 2. research the top three places/and/ people. I can bring the car AFTER the warranty period
So the TDI has an interesting advantage. In line with the 12 year rust through body warranty the TDI is designed (with proper maintenance) to go easily 500,000 to 1m miles.
Yesterday I bought a new 2004 GL w/auto for my 16 year old daughter. She has been lusting after a Jetta for a while, now.
For anyone interested, it was a base GL with the automatic being the only option. Sticker was $19,030 (with Calif emissions) and an invoice of about $17,500. I live in the SF bay area and one dealer has an ad for $15,988 for all GL's in stock. I went to my local dealer and showed him the ad, which he stated must be for a cash deal and all available incentives. He called the other dealer and found it was for cash or finance, no inventives included. Defeated, he sulked into the manager's office. After about 15 minutes, they begrudingly matched that.
Thanks to all of you, I purchased an extended warranty through VW: 6 yr, 100kmiles.
But she loves it and I'll keep my fingers crossed on reliability.
oh baloney, the build quality is excellent from mexico. the problems with ignitions coils, windows regulators and such is not because they were assembled incorrectly. the problem is quality/design control. despite the excellent quality of materials, VW has serious quality control problems and it's more than JD Powers (they're financed by the automakers including VW) pointing this out.
i agree somewhat with the "value" of this initial quality survey but VW doesn't do so well in their long term surveys either.
i'm looking forward to the new jetta very much and i am heartened that quality control supposedly a very very high priority.
as for rust, i remember from the past a lot of VW "rust buckets" to go along with the honda "rust buckets". i believe both automakers have licked this problem.
The VWs have absolutely no signs of rust... while the Hondas are starting to get some HOLES in them. (I am in Vermont where roadsalt exasperates the rusting.)
BTW.... the VW has a 12-year UNLIMITED MILAGE warantee on the body.
I beleive Honda has 3 years PERIOD.
it's a 5 years unlimited mileage for honda (which is common in the industry).
do you think the Korean's have their 10 year powertrain warranties because their cars are more reliable than everybody else or is it because they built a bad reputation they want to overcome?
Also, the VWs use heavier-gauge steel. I asked a a coworker why the roof roof of his Jetta looked like it was pelted with rocks.... He told a story about a HAIL STORM where he used to live. He said that his VW needed repainting on all horizontal surfaces.... HE ALSO SAID THAT ALL THE AISIAN CARS PARKED IN THE SAME PARKINGLOT WERE SO BADLY TRASHED THAT THEY WERE TOTALLED BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.
I agree with you about the Korean vehicles. Although I have no imperical evidence, I predict they will show rust in 5 years.... They might be skimping on quality Steel to get those prices ;-)
How 'bout we stick to talking about the Jettas? Trashing other vehicles is not our purpose here.
Serious comparisons can, of course, be undertaken on the Comparisons board. But it is neither necessary nor productive to let this single-vehicle dedicated discussion get derailed into arguments over the merits (or lack thereof) of vehicles other than the subject, you know?
yeah, it's true that the materials inside did feel substantial, but how would you like it if you had to drive your car around for 2 to 3 months without a radio. or, operate on 2 out of 6 cylinders, also for months, while you waited for the dealer to call you back about those engine coil backorders.
After many years of researching vehicles and including "Consumer Reports" in my research, I have concluded that CR is quite biased. (Are you aware that the CR "ratings" are simply the results of their SUBSCRIBERS answering an annual questionare?) Since CR has been 'touting' other makes for many years, It is not surprizing that their subscribership tends to lean twards that direction.
At least CR is not as blatently biased as the "other" consumer magazine. (The 'other' one actually accepts the 'test' vehicles and advertizing from the manufactures...clearly biased twards which manufacturer offers the most free goodies)
I dont suppose that you noticed that the VW Passat is ranked as DEAD EVEN with the Honda Accord by CR?
How would I feel?.... I would be all over the dealership and would not be waiting months. There ARE methods to deal with such occourances. But I also am confident that I have selected one of the few diecent dealerships and strongly suspect this would not happen. (Besides the fact that my VW does not have coils nor sparkplugs)
I learned about the 1.8T AUDI engine having ignitor problems and knew about the possible corrective actions while I was researching a replacement vehicle for my wife. I knew how to identify the suspect ignitors. Months of research were invaluable from this perspective.
I also know that when Honda had ignitor issues, they quitely replaced them all BEFORE anyone knew there was a widespread issue. Volkswagen, on the other hand, has a different paradyme and chose to be bullheaded about the situation. I hope VW has learned a lesson from this. It may take many years before a new generation of customers is available to purchase VWs.
Thanks for a quick reply!
For a teeneager I would go with the 2.0 engine. As you stated, it runs on regular gas (cost) and is more suited for a teenagers driving habits (Speed). The 2.0 is fast enought to get in trouble.....why tempt fate with a Turbo Jetta. Also, insurance will (should) be cheaper for the non aspirated Jetta. Good luck and I hope you will assist your daughter with the maintenance and repair bills, because they will cost more than a typical Honda or Toyota.
After reading all the threads on Jettas and their problems and the good threads on Japanese cars, I was leaning towards the Hondas. In So. Cal they don't seem as popular with the girls as the Jettas. She had two desires, a Jetta or convertible Mustang. No brainer there.......Jetta for safety and vision. I think there may be more problems with the Turbo engine than the standard 2.0 Any other opinions out there?
She'd rather use regular and lose a little on the power side.
HTH!
I, for one, have owned at least 5 VWs over the years and they each went well over 130K miles. Even the couple Hondas that I had were no more reliable that the VWs. (But the Hondas rusted much worse than VW)
Yes. The Jetta I bought my 16 year old daughter was new. I opted for the 100k extended warranty.
It was a Plat. Gray GL auto. A local dealer (SF bay area)was selling all GL's, both stick or auto, for $15,988.
It seemed like a good deal, plus she got the color she wanted.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Does the VW 5spd have a filter that needs to be changed or is it just a drain and fill?
I just pulled the snowscreen on my daughters 2.0L Golf. At 40K miles, It was totally plugged up. This means that the engine was struggling to get air. Also, this condition would promote oil-consumption because of the extreemly high vacuum in the intake plenum causing excessive vacuum in the crankcase.
Although for the TDI engine, this video clip makes it easy for anyone to clean their sconscreen. (2.0L engine is VERY simular.)
http://www.cincitdi.com/richc/snowscreen.html
this article pretty much confirms my views about VWs current reliability problems. but i'm encouraged by steps they're taking to assure a good introduction for next year's jetta.
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4020111&sr- c=Home&pos=EditLead
Jetta was tops in satisfaction in the compact category!
Since when do mass produced automobiles qualify as an investment? If it's an investment, then no. If it's a car you want to own and drive, then yes.
1999 Jetta GLS 2.0
1)had LED lights for dash vent indicators replaced because of a
short causing the lights to flicker at 5,000 miles.
2)faulty rear O2 sensor at 10,000 miles. (eventually recalled)
3)faulty MAF sensor at 40,000 miles.(eventually had extended
warranty coverage)
2000 Jetta GLS 2.0
1)had faulty MAF sensor at 41,000 miles (eventually had extended
warranty coverage)
2)replaced rear brake pads at 54,000 miles (cost $20.00 and 1 hour
of my time)
3)water pump shaft broke at 61,000 miles and had to be towed
(covered under warranty except tow bill)
2003 GTI 1.8T
1)side turn signal repeaters full of water at 10,000 miles.
now was 26,000 miles and no other problems.
I consider VW's to be fairly reliable. Of course I wish they were bulletproof, but even Honda and Toyota build problem children. I used to believe the CR reports, until I actually received one in the mail and was asked to fill it out. As stated by another poster, you have NO IDEA what problems the reporting subscribers actually experienced. On the survey, for example, there is no way to denote the SEVERITY of a problem. Under the engine category, a minor problem such as a loose hose clamp carries the same weight as an engine that knocked and had a connecting rod come out to play. A loose weatherstrip on the door is classified the same way as a door that fell off in the mall parking lot...after I received the survey in the mail, I promptly cancelled my subscription and have never read it again. The key to understanding CR is trying to decipher what MAJOR problems had occured. Again, build quality is not the same as reliabilty, but CR doesn't see it that way...
I can also attest to owning at least 5 VWs over the years. I will not get into every detail but suffice to say that they were no less reliable than the couple Hondas we have had.
I can say that the BODYs of the VWs last significantly longer than any of the Asian vehicles I have had. What is the use of having a car that runs fine but will not pass the state inspection due to massive rust holes in it?
true, and you've sure been blessed with some good vw's.
on the other hand, there sure are a lot of vw's out there with the same great quality sitting idle, mainly waiting for repair for their lack of reliability.
Poor quality is not fixable by the consumer nor anyone else after the vehicle is designed and assembled. If the sheet-metal is junk, it will rust quickly. If the dashboard is made of chinzy materials, it will crack and discolor. If the seats are covered with cheep vynal, they will tear. If the engine is only expected to go 90K miles, then it is a boat-anchor after 100K miles
don't be too hard on CR or JD Powers though. CR road tests are separate from their reliability ratings. For example, they do note that VWs uses high quality materials. but they also attribute most of VWs poor reliability to the ignition coils from their 1.8t engines - which rings true with me.
I think the major culprit would be how the media reports the results from CR/JD Powers. They are the ones who seem to interchange quality and reliability.
for example, i don't care how few problems the old malibu or century may have had, they're still dismally engineered cars. it's absurd to say the century would be a higher quality car than the passat because it will likely have fewer problems.
Your statement "reliability can be greatly improved by FIXING the broken mechanism" is a no brainer, but the real question is, does an owner want to spend his/her time and MONEY fixing something that they may not need to fix if they had purchased another make of vehicle? Your support of VW makes me think you must be employed by VW or own stock in VW.
If the initial quality is bad, what do you think the long term quality is going to be!!!! It is totally irrelevant if there is a warranty or not. If a car is a P.O.S. when it's new, guess what it's going to be 4-6 years from now...........an even bigger P.O.S. Only a fool would want to spend all their time dealing the a vw dealer(who are always rated the worst in the industry) to get their car fixed.
I personally am shooting for 500,000-1 m miles from my Jetta TDI, so you can bet I gave the VW OEM a very hard look. The issue most important it seems to me is to be able to do some to all of your maintainance. If not, the dealer has a very high shop rate and picking a "good" dealer is a lot like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially for the TDI model. There are affinity groups that share a comraderie, information and wrenching skills, but again an issue that you must face.
I have a 2.0 and have consistently achieved 32 MPG over the past couple of months. I actually filled up this morning and put in 12.6 gallons of gas and had a range of 420 miles. That equals 33 MPG. I believe that exceeds the EPA estimates. That is one thing I will miss when I move up to a Passat.