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2000-2011 Chevrolet Malibu
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The Accord LX V6, which has side airbags but not curtains standard (which the Camry does not), rings in at 23,760.
40 bucks?????
Also, the Camry has a CD player standard, and a Camry LE 4 with moonroof, ABS, auto trans is 21,590, not 23 grand.
Why the bum rap for being overpriced!? (I will contend that loaded up to 29K for the XLE V6 is a bit much).
~alpha
The point is moot, since I can't fit into the Camry all that comfortably, I dislike Toyotas in general, and the Accord has better resale value.
I only considered the Camry for a few hours just to see if the price was substantially LESS than the Accord, which it's not. The Accord can be had for around $21,500, but then I'd want a few dealer-installed accessories (nothing major) AND then another $1,000 for the extended warranty, which I'd want in light of recent Honda woes, so the cash outlay is darn close to $23K. With GM I get a "free" extended warranty (GM Card earnings), so if the Malibu/Maxx gets up to a $2,000 rebate, which is likely, the economics become clearly in GMs favor. I'll eat my lumps on resale value, since I'll likely keep the new car for 6 years, as I'm doing with this one, and the trade-in differential isn't all that big a deal.
To ease your mind, yes, I admit that the Camry does have some stuff not available on the Accord LX V-6 (sunroof, frog lights (funny spelling, I know, but that's what they are), etc.), that I could do without.
HOWEVER, since Toyota offers an options list a mile long (not nearly as long as Nissan and Mazda, though; with those you start out in the low $20s and blink and you're nearly at $30), given the opportunity...
I likely ended up with a Camry with quite a bit of stuff (not excessive though) not on the Accord (some of it I added as dealer-installed stuff on the Accord, where mandatory). Don't recall if I factored in an extended warranty on the Camry or not.
While it's likely that Edmund's members do nitpick about problems more than the average Joe, I still can't believe that all of the '03 Accord owners know about Edmund's in order to whine. '03 Accord problems are downright scary, and obviously somewhat well-known. My very local Honda dealer is now running end-of-year ads stating that they are overstocked with the largest Accord inventory in their history (over 200, per the website). Hard to say if it's because of knowledge of the problems or if its because the Altima and 6 are eating into Accord sales ('03 styling doesn't help either).
Problems with the '02&'03 Camry aren't as severe, but worse than they used to be...
The Malibu's MSRP, IMO, is quite impressive. Its interesting that you're put off by the sample of Accord problems shown by this board, but youre willing to take a chance with a clean slate GM product. That said, our 02 Camry did have a few minor issues, none mechanical, and I wonder if its just all part of buying a redesign, regardless of who makes it. (It seems that complaints on trim issue for the 03 Camry are less, and I would expect the same for the 04 Accord... just like how by 01 the Malibus had reliability going for them, as opposed to the 97 debut....)
~alpha
my accord never looked better when parked next to the malibu. ok, looks are subjective and others on this board feel just the opposite of me.
but what sure isn't subjective is the quality of the exterior trim and such. it's not very impressive. even the most loyal gm fan would have to agree that the exterior mirrors shout CHEAP. don't even get me going on the interior decor.
since i'm turned off so much by the visible quality it doesn't matter to me how well the car drives.
i'm more convinced than ever that the malibu does not compete well with the top tier japanese and passat sedans. sure the malibu handles better than the camry, many cars do. but the camry's top priority is ride comfort and noise isolation and no car glides down the road better. not my cup of tea though.
anyone know how i can reach bob lutz so i can let him know that his hot air rhetoric doesn't much reality. world class car my foot.
ford with it's mazda 6 based futura (not sure if i have the name right) has better potential in my opinion.
i'm sure some of you are thinking that i wasn't one to get a malibu in the first place. but what was part of the malibu's mission? to get ex accord and camry drivers into the new mailibu.
I happen to like the styling of the '03 Accord, but not many do (INCLUDING the 60-somethings and over, trust me).
Remember, I drive a '98 Malibu, so I'm expecting big-time improvement, which won't be hard to achieve. The interior (seats excepted) of the new one is MUCH better.
I also agree that Bob Lutz has been blowing some hot air lately. (see Grand Prix comments below, another Lutz one)
As you can see by the previous posts, I did give the Camcord a fair chance, but I'm 99% sure I'll stick with GM this time. The Maxx is #1 right now, due to its really innovative and useful design (try that one Camcorders), but until I see it... The sedan has me a bit (but just a bit) leery. Hope to see one shortly.
The big convincing factors for me for GM are 1) the good old GM Card and 2) rebates. Mostly due to my indecision on how large the rebates might go on the sedan and Maxx (sales will tell), and my possible distaste for both seating materials (leather/suede and custom cloth) in them, I've grown quite fond of the '04 Grand Prix. Can get regular leather in that, and $3,000 rebates next summer are a given on that one. But, the GP has its own areas of concern (interior assembly is worse than the Malibu, thank you Mr. Lutz), primaily the fact that it's a foot longer than the Malibu. Parking is TIGHT in my area when the snowbirds are back (soon, UGH) (and they love their Grand Marquis' and Town Cars, which doesn't help). I had my first-ever fender bender (backing up)(first accident of any type; pretty impressive for a 40-something) last year, all because I couldn't see around a Tahoe and the parking lot had little maneuver room.
Decisions, decisions....
its clear that GM can only do 1 of 2 things
1) please the fatihful GM lovers by building the same car over and over.
or
2) try to build a car in the vein of either of the two class leading sellers, Accord or Camry. GM can't and simply doesn't want to dethrone Accord and Camry. Its much easier to keep building the same cars over and over again for the 27% faithful out there.
How long can GM continue to earn customers based on this: 1) the good old GM Card and 2) rebates
~alpha
But then, it was my one and only 4-cylinder, and you know what I think of those.
My redemption? A lemonade '96 Monte Carlo Z34.
Slowly working my way back up the ladder again...
Have to run. Dateline has the high-speed crash tests tonight (the new Malibu will get its turn in about 6 months; should be fun), but I'm hoping the '04 GP comes "down the runway" tonight.
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/09-2003/1-111-9-26.pdf
I'm not willing to risk it though, and if I settle on a new Malibu or Maxx, will for sure get an '05 at the latest.
For those of you that didn't see it, the test was the IIHS 40 mph offset impact test. No GP; not surprised, since it's not a huge seller. Probably will do it when they do the new 'Bu.
What they DID test bodes well for the Epsilon chassis. The Saab 9-3 got a Good/Best Pick (highest rating). So did the Mazda 6 (happy, reg?). (The Toyota Sienna minivan had a fuel leak and failed, but Toyota fixed it real fast and got that rating too; the Lincoln Town Car got an Acceptable, but Ford fixed that real fast and it got the best rating too; my "neighbors" will be thrilled!).
For reference, the ratings are Good/Best Pick, Good, Acceptable, Marginal, and Poor. Last year, the Accord and Camry got a Good/Best Pick and the Altima got a Good. Several years ago the "old" Malibu got an Acceptable, so I'm assuming GM will only improve the new one.
It's a competitive world out there. The '04 GP got a marginal score in side crash tests by NHTSA; no excuse for that these days, but it was better than the earlier model (which did horribly).
What does this mean? The article doesn't tell me what that is?
What does this mean? The article doesn't tell me what that is? **
That it perturbs Mr. Regfootball, he noted dryly.
Imagine how much less air you would inhale with only one nostril. Basically, more valves allow more vavle area=more air into engine=more power.
"The Saab 9-3 got a Good/Best Pick (highest rating). So did the Mazda 6 (happy, reg?)."
Darn right, those are like my two favorite cars right now. Add to the list the TSX, CTS, A4, BMW3.
When I get home I will read the sae article.
venus : No, they have preferred Honda and Toyota cars over GM cars, big difference. I know you are a Honda fan though so we know where your views are based.
"GM can't and simply doesn't want to dethrone Accord and Camry"
Reg : Same old back and forth from you I see. One day you are praising the Bu and telling us you are considering it, next day you think it's crap and you are trash talking GM. Of course you know what everyone else is thinking and wanting to do, right Reg? Sometimes I think you are two different people. ;-)
anybody going from one of GMs old ohv i4 engines to an accord/camry i4 would notice this difference immediately. why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
i guess if you're right that no one notices how their engine performs, honda might as well just use their lawn mower engines in their cars.;)
because the faithful fear if Gm starts putting better engines in its sedans then they won't be able to buy em because GM won't need thousands in rebates to move em anymore.
BTW, Honda does make many OHC lawnmower engines.
Honda, Toyota and Nissan all spent their dollars at the mechanical end, and that's why you have to spend a mint to get decent creature comforts.
IMO, its admirable that GM upgraded the platform AND the amenities (just try to get remote start, power pedals, leather/suede seating, flat-folding front passenger seat, et al on an import; OK you can get power pedals on some Camrys, although I don't recall ever seeing that option when I priced an SE V-6; anyway, whoop-de-do). Obviously, a completely new engine would have pushed the price tag to ridiculous levels (its high enough as it is, thank you); way beyond the competition. High-end creature comforts like auto A/C can be had in the Malibu at a fair price compared to the imports. Much better value for the dollar.
Take your pick. Personally, I'd much rather have the creature comforts (and an acceptable engine) than just a great engine (plus side effects like torque steer in the Altima, bad brakes in the Camry and awful alignment and brake rotor problems in the Accord).
aveman : Funny how those wicked OHV V8s are always forgotten.
Would some of you "anti-GMers" kindly explain to me this simple fact. In the category of "10-years and over automobiles", why is it that the vast majority of what you see on the road is either 1) a Honda, 2) a Toyota or 3) a GM product with a pushrod engine? Hmm?? Hmm??
On the subject of you "anti-GMers", I'm certainly not trying to run you out of "Dodge". I'm honored that you care enough to give us insight from the "other side". Maybe we'll just snag one or more of you. Me thinks we nearly have reg (who's undoubtedly a Gemini, but then so am I) on the fence, and over he'll go once he sees the prices of what's on his "wish list". But then, I'll also bet that these 2 Malibu forums are likely 2 of the hottest forums in all of "Edmundston" these days, as likely happens on the cusp of a new model....
My Miata delivers max hp at 7000. The top line Matrix delivers max hp at 7600? The base Matrix delivers max hp at 6000. The new 'Bu delivers Max hp at 5400.
The advantage of Synth over regular oil is that it maintains viscosity at higher temperatures. While the Miata manual does not recommend synth, all the Mazda service professionals do.
The rev happy Matrix pushes well into the Miata territory. The new 'Bu does not need to rev to get its hp and torque.
Helpful hint: If you hate the Malibu or GM in general, you're probably in the wrong discussion.
Thanks,
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Possibly this year Toyota and Honda will hold the line on prices. If the trend continues, they may have to raise prices or lose profit. Either way, the new 'Bu is still a great deal.
I saw a portable DVD/? player at BJ's this weekend. It did not have a sticker. Any idea on how much these cost, and should I therefore avoid puting one in my Malibu?
Why would anyone buy a Malibu instead of an L series Saturn? Seems to me if I had to buy GM and wasn't worried about status symbols, I'd be at my local Saturn dealer. Good resale and decent reliability with better styling.
all else i'm gonna say on the engine thing is, they got you over a barrel. Toyota and Nissan develops one engine that's up to date and sells it in like 20 vehicles, and all at prices the same as what Chevy sells.
It hurts the Malibu to take the different appraoch, that which is like 20 different engines.
Then, what is it? Chevy isn't the producer of entry level vehicles for GM? Really?
These are cars the Malibu has to compete with in the market also, besides the Camcords of the world.
bc: I had my serpentine belt replaced at around 15,000 miles (and at around 9,000 miles on the '96 Monte Carlo); the one on the M/C was squealing, but not on the Malibu. I went ahead and had it done back then, but still think it was unnecessary. I'll bet it's a common ploy to get you to spend more $ (if its not making noise).
maxx: The one that'll be in the Maxx lists for $1,000 (reasonable considering other makes that offer it). Can't advise you any further, other than I'd personally get the GM-issued one, so that it's covered under the base and extended warranties.
Here come the snickers (and no, I'm really in my 40s!!).
My car is now 5 1/2 years old and has just under 20K miles. Why? Because I quit my job just about the time I got the car to care full-time for a terminally-ill parent who managed to last a lot longer than predicted. So, until I started doing free-lance work earlier this year, the car has never had to commute daily (and still doesn't every day). This "gig" is temporary and I intend to seek full-time employ once the darn employment picture brightens. THAT'S also why I'm so concerned about rebates, etc. Otherwise, I'd might not even be a member of this forum...
BUT, the majority of things I'm experiencing with it now are age-related and not mileage related (like the intake manifold gaskets a few months ago, and the new tires last fall, which had developed sidewall cracks on the wonderful Firestones, probably due to the fact that it sits a lot).
So, bc, the belt was about 15 mos. ago. The Service Dept. figures my low mileage is roughly equivalent to 60K miles in normal use, so it sounds like your mileage is dead on for that repair item. (The belt in the M/C was due to the fact that the entire car was a lemon).
When one says this car is a "poor man's.." it means the cars share similar characteristics but one is cheaper. The Malibu is not even close to the CTS in any way nor is it aimed at anything close to someone who would buy a CTS. I don't think anyone would consider the Bu a "poor man's CTS" except you.
Based upon what? I suppose we can both agree that a vehicle commands it's strongest value when it is a brand new model? You're already saying they are selling at invoice! How is that good for resale? Just wait until they offer incentives then you'll really be up the creek so-to-speak.
I based my statement upon past performance in the used car market (I'd be a fool not to). In that market (and the current one) a Saturn holds its value better than a Chevy Boo.
What Chevy model is the poor mans CTS? Please, tell me, what would a guy who wants a CTS but can't afford one buy from Chevy?
dindak: My implication in the earlier post is that I'd probably be driving a CTS if I'd kept my high-paying former job or been back in one by now. So, in a sense the new 'Bu is MY "poor" (well, not THAT poor) man's CTS. I don't think that was the intent of the others' posts, however.