2000-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

icvci

So Saturn resale values have fallen in 5 years. All GM vehicles have had a fall in resale value. All things being equal, Saturn resale values have remained higher than those of Chevy.

Let me just say this again, I don't hate the Malibu. I actually like the 2003 and earlier model. I think the old interior looks MUCH better than the new and I found the old styling to be pleasant.

FWIW, I really thought GM was going down the right road with the Alero and Intrigue. I don't know anything about how they did in the real world or whether they have done well or failed. I guess the Intrigue was a failure as it's not around anymore. IMO both of those cars are ahead of this new Malibu in terms of competing with the Accord and the Camry.

dindak

L series have lower resale than the current Malibu so I think that is basis enough. The new Bu should be a better car so hence better resale. L-series has one of the worst re-sale values in the midsize segment. You can't lump all Saturn's in a basket and say they have good re-sale??

If you need an example for the CTS, a poor man's CTS might be an Acura TSX or something what handles similarly and costs about $5K less. Is that really so hard to understand? Malibu is not even in the same league.

logic1

As for why buy a new 'Bu over the L300:

New 'Bu will be safer

Get better gas mileage

Have better ride and handling

Be offered by brand with far wider dealeship network

Looks better inside and out

Has a much larger sunroof

And has a higher sitting position.

The L Series replacement will share the Epsilon platform with the Malibu. When that vehicle comes out, the question may make sense. Right now it appears to be ill informed.

icvci

Well, I don't know what you're basing your resale opinion on but, here's someone that does that sort of thing for a living and they say you're wrong.

Malibu -

http://intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport.cfm/section/glance- /vhcl_nmb/9965

Saturn -

http://intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport.cfm/section/glance- /vhcl_nmb/10102

you need an example for the CTS, a poor man's CTS might be an Acura TSX or something what handles similarly and costs about $5K less. Is that really so hard to understand? Malibu is not even in the same league.

Let me make this easier. If I want to buy a GM vehicle and I know I can't afford a CTS, I need something with room enough for a family and a peppy engine, what should I buy. Not Acura, Chevy.

icvci

New 'Bu will be safer

As of yet unproven.

Get better gas mileage

Marginal. L - 21/29 M - 22/30

Have better ride and handling

Both are weak perfomers. Autoweek scoffed at handling claims.

Be offered by brand with far wider dealeship network

Yippie

Looks better inside and out

LOL! Beauty is in the eye of the keyholder.

Has a much larger sunroof

Wow! I'm curious, what are the dimesions of both?

And has a higher sitting position.

Since when is that good in a car?

icvci

What's up with the HUGE turning radius? My CR-V is tighter than the Boo.

icvci

Buy your vehicles and enjoy them. Personally I expect them to become rental fodder no matter how much Lutz prays they won't.

logic1

each of the major buff mags and many articles as well. All of them gainsay your claim handling is not good. In fact, this article in Autoweek contradicts your claim about Autoweek's feelings about the new 'bu as well:

http://autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;cat_code=reviews&content_code=09653912&Search_Type=STD- - - - &Search_ID=1569052&record=1

The new 'Bu is based on the Epsilon platform. The Epsilon platform bases the Saab 9-3. Cars that share platforms usually have similar safety ratings. The Saab 9-3 is a very safe car. The old Opel Vectra which shares a platform with the L was a middle of the road safe car as is the Saturn L.

Higher seating is a feature in many of the new Japanese cars, including the Altima, Maxima and CamCords. It is what the market wants.

It is a long established fact that middle market buyers generally will not buy from a dealership more than an hour's drive from their home. Chevy has three times the dealership base as Saturn.

You mean why is the new 'Bu's turning radius the same as the Mazda6's? I don't know, ask Mazda?

The old 'Bu is now called a Chevy Classic. It is a rental only car. GM most likely will not even negotitate bulk sales of the new 'Bu to rental companies.

regfootball

"Malibu is the poor person's Saab 9-3."

They share some chassis parts. Again I will cry powertrains and the reason why it makes a difference, the Saab 9-3 is a hoot to drive even in Linear form. I didn't want to get out of that car.

The personality of the Chevy will be quite different and not quite nearly in the ballpark of the Saab, I propose, for these reasons.....

1) powertrain. The Chevy has the dull, plebian, "monday-friday" as one person inferred it, non-sporting OHV v6 made for stoplight to stoplight feel good cruising. When you ask it to RESPOND to your needs, it will not so in a way that resembles the superior motivation of the Saab. Or I may add, as well as many of its competitors in its segment.

2) steering. Chevy has electric power steering. Saab i believe retains a traditional setup. No doubt this will be a huge difference.

3) suspension. The suspension tuning will be quite different no matter what Lutz claims. The Chevy will be mushier. Also, no doubt the Saab will have higher grade suspension components and parts, even if their mounting points and some other things are shared. The quality of parts, materials used, and assembly and design specs/ tolerances will be to a much higher grade in the Saab and rightfully so according to its price.

So yes, they are both Epsilon cars. But I don't for a moment think the Chevy will begin to reach the praiseworthy feel of the Saab.

To put it this way. I drove the Mazda6 which is getting all sorts of praise. Great, I'm thinking. Then an hour later I am in a base 9-3 and thinking, man that Mazda is definite step below. And for sure the Malibu will not be set up at all to come close to the driving experience the Mazda6 is.

Which is why the TSX (which by the way is priced not a lot more than a loaded Malibu, what maybe a grand?) is something I think I need to drive right now. Also, if Audi would get some more hp in its A4 front wheel drive maybe I would like that too. Audis have stunning interiors and the Saab interior is damn nice too.

To recap, please don't compare the Saab and Malibu like so. They might share parts, but they are still quite different.

gmalltheway

of hearing about how camcord have DOHC and chevy still has pushrods!!! No one cares, its not that big of a deal, my plastic manafold has not blown off just to let you know reg. You think GM does it because they are cheap, yeah ok. Even if that is true whats that matter, if the pushrod engines were SOOO bad GM would change and GM ain't changing it meaning it must not be that bad. YES, those new mirrors do scream cheap!! however i'd overlook the mirrors just because i like the rest of the car, i mean look at everything Aztec owners have to overlook!!! (i thought that was funny)

bcmalibu99ls

for your replies

The dealer also said I need tranny fluid replaced, and he said I had 2mm left out of 14mm on my front brake pads (would be the second replacement). I'll wait till the next oil change. Otherwise it's all good :-)

dindak

ivici : I think you are in the wrong forum. You have no interest in this car other than to bash it.

gmalltheway : You are so rite. The OHC OHV stuff is soooo old now.

logic : I was only comparing to the TSX as they are both higher end sport sedans, nothing more. The series of posts on the subject are a wast of space anyway.

regfootball

that's manifold. not manafold.

dtownfb

It took me a while to figure this out but it is important fact that GM retains the OHV engines rather then update them to the OHC. The OHC engines are much smoother (no surprise there) and leads you to thinking you are driving a much nicer car.

My last two rental cars have been Camrys (wpbharry - I can't beleive you don't have enough leg room esp. since I have plenty). The four cylinder engine in the Camry is so much smoother and quieter then the current 3.1 V6. Plus it has just as much powere off the line and it cruises at 80 mph much better then the Malibu. This is why people buy the Camry over the Malibu. I agree that most consumers don't know that one has a OHV engine while the other has a OHC but they do understnad that one is much smoother, quieter then the other.

They should have changed the name. As pointed out earlier, the Malibu name gives consumers a negative feeling based on the past 7 years. Most people buying in this market may not even consider the Malibu based on it's name alone. They'll read the reliability ratings in CR or some other magazine and say "why bother"?

Saturn vs. L-Series: icvic, dindak is right. The L-Series has horrible resale value. It's about the same or worst then the Malibu. It doesn't matter what Intellichoice, KBB, NADA or Edmunds says the car is worth. The car is only as valuable as what someone is willing to pay for it. And right now the L-series is not selling, new or used. The L-series has been a huge disappointment for Saturn and Gm and could spell the end for Saturn. Each of the past two model years they have reduced the options on the L-Series to reduce costs. For 2004, I believe all L-Series will be L300. Although I like what they did in 2003 to the front/rear end. It looks like a classier car. Don't be suprised if the Malibu gets the same treatment in two years.

We've debated the changes to the 2004 Malibu while it's nice, I think I have made it clear that I don't think they went far enough with this re-design. If I am shopping in the mid-size market, why should buy this car? If your answer is price, then the 2003 Malibu should be a runaway success esp. given the rebates they are offering. All the reviews state that the Accord is still a better car. The Camry is more refined and ride s better (handling goes to the Malibu). GM car sales have been on a downward trend for the past 3 years while Honda, Nissan and Toyota are on the increase. More content then CamCordAlt, the current LS has more for the money then all 3 of these cars. Again it should be a runaway success.

I hate to keep harping on this but I have yet to see one compelling reason to buy this car over the Camry, Accord, Altima, or mazda6 (I left the Passat out. I consider that to be out of this class simply because of price). I'm being open minded about this. I want this car to succeed esp. since I have 2001 Malibu LS. And the current trend in car sales scares me for the long term stability in the automotive industry in the US.

wpbharry

Not about to reveal my source, but someone whispered something in my ear last night.

Since this forum was designed for current Malibu owners (all vehicle years) to discuss their current vehicles and to also discuss the soon-to-be released '04 (but ONLY the Malibu), and since the discussion invariably leads off-subject (OHV vs. OHC, for example), the suggestion has been made that I create a new forum in the Sedans Comparison area, so that we can go "wild" and not veer off-track.

As some of you know, Revka over in Hatchbacks and Wagons tried unsuccessfully to move the Mazda 6 ranting to a new forum, and it's never been used.

IMO, the way things are going in here to date, it's not looking well for the future.

My question is, if I do that and lead you all to it, will you use it and leave this place for what it was intended??? Hope so. PLEASE give me your thoughts throughout the day today. Can't guarantee that I'll have time to start the new forum immediately, but pretty quickly if you agree on the idea. Thanks.

Kirstie_H

This is not optional. If you wish to compare, create or join an active discussion on the Comparisons board.

Some folks haven't taken the rather strong hint I posted yesterday. This is a place to exchange information about the Malibu - not to endlessly compare it to unrelated brands, not to bash GM quality, and certainly not to challenge other members' perceptions, qualifications, and knowledge. Please think about how your posts would be viewed by a new member before hitting the "post my message" button.

Further discussion along these lines will be deleted. Thank you.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

rwisem

OK here's my 2 cents. I think we need to split the Malibu topics and retain the current one for "Classic" owners and start a "2004 Malibu" topic for the new model. I also feel that discussions of GM quality, OHV vs. OHC and perceived value compared to the competition are valid postings and add to the overall discussion.

dindak

Luckily the 3.1L is gone and the Ecotec while not quite as refined as some 4 bangers, is still an excellent OHC base motor. GM needs to get the size and power up ASAP but they did manage to squeak out another 4 hp out of it for the Malibu application.

I think the main reasons Malibu will sell over Camcords are
1) Features like adjustable pedals and remote starter
2) Maxx option, not available from Camcords
3) Price / value equation for a very competitive car

The build quality from what I hear is excellent. If the quality and durability hold true, why wouldn't people buy a Malibu? Time will tell, I hope GM gets it right. Honda has had many little issues with their new Accord (rattles, loose trim, warped rotors ect) and Malibu needs to be perfect out the door.

Kirstie_H

Splitting by model year tends to create an avalanche of new discussions -- if we do it for the Malibu, why not for all of the redesigns, like Maxima? You might talk to the board host, pat, about this possibility, but generally it creates more chaos than it resolves.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

icvci

I just assumed this was a place to come discuss vehicles, like them or not. I figured it was a place for those who love a certain car to convince me of its merits while I point out what I think are its short comings.

The last time I saw a town hall "discussion", it contained many view points not just those of audience members enamored with one of the participants.

icvci

KBB, NADA and Intellichoice are based upon the current market, they don't just pull numbers out of thin air.

The September 1, 2003 issue of Autoweek has this to say about the 2004 Boos handling -

Though we had a tough time detecting its "pure" European handling characteristics, the absence of squeaks and rattles is worth noting.

When a reviewer starts off talking about handling and digresses to the fact there were no rattles and squeaks, it leads me to believe there isn't too much to say about the handling.

Gimme a link one from any journalist where they comment on a Camry, Accord or Mazda6 having a high seating position and it being a good thing.

aveman

This is info article in wards auto explaining a little about the new malibu project. The key word is new.For malibu shoppers, the article may explain why this car should be judged on it's merits and not based on the old malibu.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_malibu_drives_chevy/

wpbharry

First, I certainly hope that I'm not the one that the forum is "enamored of". I DON'T have to do this. I just have the time now and again.

If you continue on like this, trust me, from experience, you won't be happy. And I'll have lost a forum I need since I currently own a Malibu.

There WAS a 2004 Malibu forum. Due to CONSTANT veers off-track, Pat Host found it necessary to close it.

To be honest, I'm a bit confused in one sense. And that is, when discussing a new model, it's nearly impossible to keep comparisons out of the discussion. And I don't know how to prevent that. But, when the topic leaves the Malibu out completely, then that's not the intent of the forum. This Malibu forum is convoluted a bit at the moment, due to the closing of the '04 Malibu forum; an unintended consequence.

Does anyone have a better idea?

Kirstie H, please continue to follow this along,; I fear this is not going anywhere, and can't think of what else to do.

wpbharry

Unfortunately, I REALLY need to get some real work done today, BUT...

Not to reopen old wounds, but the discussion in the '04 Malibu forum, during one fateful weekend, which I and many other "regulars" stayed FAR away from, actually was about lawn mowers and motorcycles. REALLY.

If we do the new forum bit (and I hope you appreciate that I'm trying to help us all through a totally democratic process), I thought "Malibu vs. Alternatives" or "2004 Malibu vs. Alternatives" would hit the nail on the head. Agree/disagree?

venus537

agree.

garyw

Drove an LT this weekens and:

* Interior is much nice than described here and in recent reviews. Let it be known that I am a huge critic of GM interiors and the Malibu passed my test. Not quite Accord quality but nice thean the Camry and nicer than the CTS that costs $30K+. When will GM learn to steal the steering wheel design from the Accord and put it in all their mid-size cars. It makes all the difference in perception.

* Looks small even though it is 188" in length. My volvo 850 is about the same size but looks bigger than the Malibu.

* The interior is incredibly roomy inside. At 6'2" and all leg - my seat is all the way back. Yet I could sit in back with room to spare. The MAXX will be huge.

* Nice features include the tilt/telescope wheel and the leather/suede seats. Not sure what features it does not have. Power everything and traction control included.

* Steering is too loose at low speeds for my liking but most will enjoy the ease of parking.

* Nice size cupholder and its location.

* The side view mirrors should be body colored on the LT.

* Wish the front end were more aggresive. Love the tail-end. New nose/headlamp design could make this car look killer.

* Would love to see it in black with 17" wheels.

Bottom line for was that I was impressed more than I expected. This is a lot of car for the money. GM deserves credit for stepping up. But the car does not stir my soul like an Impala LS/SS.

Given rebates and discounts that already out there this car is a good deal. I still think they overpriced it vs. CamCord's. But GM likes to play the rebate games so its a wash.

An LS with the 3.5 engine and all the goodies of an LT is the economic way to go.

Hope this real world impression helps.

Kirstie_H

Excellent idea! If you could start that discussion on the comparisons board, it would be great. Discussing the virtues of the Malibu versus other models that might attract the same buyers could be very informative. By the same token, there are ongoing discussions on the News & Views board about the various rationales for buying domestics over imports, where that line of discussion is not only appropriate, but encouraged.

Thanks to all for trying to steer this discussion back on track!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

wpbharry

Now THAT'S the kind of post we want to hear!! Great info. Am pleased that you found the legroom OK and that the leather/suede is OK too. I'll get to see one soon, I hope.

Thanks for the info.

dindak

venus : Given you own a Honda, I'm not surprised you would say that. Fact of the matter is, domestics (especially now) can be thousands less and since I usually keep my cars for a long time resale is not a big issue. As for engineering, I would agree with you depending on the cars in question. Not always true.

garyw : Thanx for the post. Still nothing at the local dealer as of lunch yesterday. Really want to try the car out for myself.

wpbharry

Well, if nothing else, one good thing that's happened is that we're hearing from a lot more folks. Nice.

The new forum has hit a "discussion item" matter and I don't have a clear sense right now when it'll be ready to go; soon, but could be a few days (worst-case scenario). Isabel, believe it or not, is playing a role in this.

In the meantime, try to be civil, but don't hold back your reasonable thoughts waiting.

One thing that HAS already happened, for those of you also interested in the Maxx, is that Host Revka took an idea that came up as a result of our discussions today in this forum and has already made some nice upgrades over in that forum. If you're interested, check it out.

Thanks for putting up with me today. I'm trying to save us aggravation, really.

pat

I removed the off-topic posts today, and between Kirstie and I, they will continue to be removed. Kirstie has clearly explained where the domestic vs. import and similar conversations belong. If you have something to say on that subject that you would like for others to read, you need to find an appropriate conversation on the News & Views board. If you post it here, it will be removed.

Regarding an earlier message, there is no requirement that all messages praise a vehicle, of course. However, there is a requirement that conversations be civil and respectful. When someone posts in a discussion for no other reason than to lambast a vehicle, that is not civil and respectful behavior.

Harry and Kirstie are going to figure out how/when to get the new discussion going, so stay tuned. (I kinda muddled it up for the moment ;->)

One more thing - posting messages about topic management is disruptive. If you have something to say about management decisions, please email them to me, or to Kirstie, or to our Community Manager Sylvia. Thanks.

maxx4me

Harry: send me an offline e-mail. Yours is not working.

dindak

http://media.gm.com/division/chevrolet/malibu_launch_082103/

wpbharry

Huh??

I had set up a special screen name in AOL to chat with some of you on certain items. Once again, it's Goodguywpb@aol.com.

maxx, I don't have your e-mail address.

wpbharry

As you can see, Pat Host's electricity was finally restored and we have the "all clear" to proceed.

However, since I accomplished little else today, I need to spend a few hours on work stuff! I've never done this before, but trust help is nearby. I'll try my best to get the new discussion up and ready this evening and then will let you know how to link to it. It will be named "2004 Malibu vs. Alternatives" in the comparisons board (which I've never been in).

As a guide, the new discussion is not meant to do away with this one. What Pat is saying, in part, is that this forum should focus ONLY on the Malibu (all model years) and not much else. IMO, I expect that this forum will revert to focusing on questions and problems that current owners have and the new one can focus on comparisons of the Malibu and whatever.

I'll advise tonight or tomorrow.

pat

Link: Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans. When it's up and running you or I or Kirstie can post a link to it here.

If you need help, holler (email) for me or for Kirstie. We'll try to not give you opposite answers the next time.

pat

After removing more messages, I need to say something else.

We are here to discuss different points of view, certainly. Anyone who has a constructive point to be made is welcome to post it.

Messages that are posted to foster arguments, attacks, snipe at each other are off-limits. Period.

KEEP IT CIVIL, folks. Stop the arguing. It is entirely possible to have a constructive and civil conversation about completely different viewpoints. If you are unable to make your points without sniping at others, then just keep quiet.

It's really that simple.

wpbharry

That was very easy. Thanks for the link, Pat. The Discussion name is "2004 Chevrolet Malibu vs. Alternatives" (I see you're the Host, Pat; how convenient).

I e-mailed Kirstie about how to embed a link to it for the benefit of members and haven't had a chance to see if she replied.

Since it's ready & waiting, could one of you kindly do it?

See a lot of you guys over there. There's a question ready and waiting.

pat

wpbharry "2004 Chevrolet Malibu vs. Alternatives" Sep 23, 2003 5:33pm

aveman

The driving impressions found in the current Automobile magazine were very good.This is the second article I have seen that mentioned the 4cyl model as having a particluar agile handling feel.This is to be expected because of less weight over the wheels. They did mention that the 4cyl did not seem as well mated to the transmission as the v6. They said the 4cyl would hunt between gears more. They described the V6 as very powerful.They were impressed overall with both the handling and the highway ride of both cars.They did mention that while it may not be the top car in it's class for the enthusist driver, that it handled itself better than the camry. I think when magazine put the Malibu's road manners near the top of the heap that is impressive.I am a realest, but every time an article mentions the 4cyl being an agile handler , I think what could be a fun 5speed drive.

mirth

Does anyone know if they're planning an SS version of the Malibu? I'm kind of disappointed with the 200HP.

wpbharry

They showed an SS version of the Maxx at the NY Auto Show back in April, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

They also showed an SS version of the "classic" Malibu soon after that was introduced in Fall '96, but it never happened. Glad I didn't wait and got the '98 LS.

wpbharry

Now that I can get back to the business of having some fun (don't ask questions, just "bite the bullet" and move on), Gary, I have some questions for you re: your test drive.

How did it drive?

Several other tall members (6'2" here also) noted that with the seat all the way back, rear seat legroom behind it is very tight. Confused about the discrepancy.

Other notes:

I totally agree with you about the black side mirrors, which are few and far between these days, but it wouldn't break a purchase decision. I think the LS should have body-colored mirrors also.

Pricing. I agree that Chevy overpriced. Since there's a $1,000 rebate already (and it's not "officially" on sale until next week), I (and several others of us) are hoping that that creeps up even more.

LS vs. LT: Be a bit careful here. The LS custom cloth seats are what we've trademarked "Uglycloth" (it's pretty bad, at least in neutral (beige)). I was worried that the suede couldn't hold up to a dog occasionally. That I'll have to decide for myself.

gmalltheway

are ugly... my 02 Malibu LS has body color mirrors so i don't understand what's with the flat black mirrors on on the new ones. The mirrors however are not real noticeable on the nave blue LT that my local dealership has. However the red LT (sold now) and the Silver LS that they have look UGLY with those mirrors. Give them a year or 2 and they'll be body color. Just hit 30,000 miles on the 02 Bu LS and still not a problem!

wpbharry

I replied in agreement in the new Discussion, but wondered why you'd posted it there. Bit of confusion for all of us for a few days, no prob.

I hate the black mirrors too. See post above.

wpbharry

logic, I agree completely. But, if there actually becomes a Maxx SS (Chevy does seem to be more serious about the SS line this go 'round), I'll bet the engine in it is the 3.6 if the higher-end G6 uses it. The regular G6 will use the Malibu's 3.5. That's been confirmed. I guess whatever the up-motor is in the G6 would go in the Maxx SS.

There might be a problem fitting the 3800 in the Maxx since the front end is pretty short.

ehaase

According to Automotive News, there will be a 235 hp Malibu SS out for the 2006 model year. It will probably use a 3.9L OHV V6, derived from the 3.5.

dindak

I don't think the SS will be a big seller, but it would bring attention to the car which would be all good.

according2me

to become an SS. GM could put their new 3 valve head, tighten the suspension, offer a 5 or 6 spd manual tranny and larger 4wheel disc brakes. That ought to be enough to warrant an SS on the grill.

icvci

Maybe GM could put one of those Honda 6s they're using in the Redline Saturns in it...