BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

micga

My dealer just told me that my 325i was built in AS and will be here by the end of April. Thanks to all you guys,I'm concerned about this build location. Then I thought about it further and said "What am I worried about?" There is no real evidence that I have seen suggesting quality issues. Why is everyone so concerned about where it's built. From what I understand, mostly Germans work at the plant. Besides, do you really think BMW would produce thousands of "bad" BMW 325i's? My dealer told me that ALL 325i are built in AS. Only the IX is built in Germany. Can anyone confirm this??

micga

Seems as though I'm suffering from a bit of dislexia. The build location I was refering to in post #1311 is S.A (South Africa) sorry.

brave1heart

jhdevoy - I read today's discussion on leasing (I also got a few e-mails on the topic) and it seems that we generated a lot if heat. On the plus side, hopefully this whole discussion will help the board to make better-informed decisions. That was the whole idea, I personally did learn a couple of things on leasing and had some fun doing that. Your attacks and esp. arrogance seem out of place, however - '...I paid $800 in fees, because I make enough money in my career, that I could give a crap...'. I hope you are treating your friends and colleagues better than that. Sense of humor might help too.
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oracle_xml

Platypus (Michael Alan),

After taking the delivery from Munich, you have to drop the car at one of the locations, so that they can ship it to USA.

Does anybody charges any shipping cost for moving the vehicle from Munich to USA.?

platypus

Shipping charges and marine insurance are included in the Euro delivery package.

It's really a cool program if you can take the vacation time and also understand that you have to wait 4-8 weeks to receive your car in the States after dropping it off.

golfnut7

Yes, I know these dealers have to make a living but I have dealt with four different ones over the phone in the past two days and the most they would come off MSRP was $200 to $750. I had one hang up on me when I told him I was shooting for $1,500 off. And this is for a reasonably loaded 325i. Their attitude was that they know the economy is down, they aren't selling many units but this is a BMW, I don't have to discount any more. I told them all to call me in a month when they needed to make a sale. Is anyone else having similar experiences? I am in Arkansas and can anyone direct me to a dealer within 500 miles who will negotiate a little? I am about ready to go with an Acura.

golfnut7

Go to the BMWUSA.com web site and build your BOW. the fog lights, climate control and cruise have been added to the standard features and reduced the price of the Premium Package by $800. I used an 85% ratio to arrive at the invoice of $2,275. Hope this helps.

platypus

Not sure how far it is from you, but try contacting Richard Foard at Moss Motors in Lafayette, LA. Very responsive and offered a competitive price.

jhdevoy

Actually Braveheart,

Since you point out my lack of a sense of humor, I should tell you that I won the senior class superlative of "funniest" at Boston Latin School. Regarding my "arrogance", you should note that I don't feel the need to mention such things until someone questions my qualifications for making certain statements. Also, money and education certainly do not make a person a good human being (although I used to feel that way!), and I admit that at times my competitiveness can lead my written arguments to be brash and condescending. I enjoy these mental jousts at times, but in my personal life I am very happy (a five year old son and one on the way) and good natured! I apologize for the way I acted. In any case, I don't have any inferiority complexes that a shiny new 330xi can't fix...

bevo27

I'm located in Dallas and can sympathize with your situation. Dealers here were only willing to go $500 off sticker. I talked to Shelton in Temple but the guy I dealt with couldn't even calculate the sticker price correctly, so I passed on them. I ended up ordering from Joe Pistocco in Wichita Falls for about $1500 under sticker. I probably could have gotten a little more, but got tired of dealing with it (so I guess I caved). I also talked to the dealer in Bryan (closer to you in Houston) - they would have probably met that price, but they are further away.

I guess I'm glad I didn't waste any time trying to deal with the guys in Houston. Best of luck.

langley2

The $30,890 I'm paying for my 325xi includes the $645 d&h charge, auto, cold weather package, metallic paint, mats, splash guards (installed) and installation of a separately purchased center arm rest. Dealer will also apply paint sealant at no charge. (Tax is, however, not included in the total.) As much as I like the leather and wood trim, I just couldn't justify the $1500 -$2000 extra cost. No CD or sunroof either.

All in all, I THINK I got a reasonably good deal. Again, it looks like I'm coming in at about $1500 over dealer cost, which three dealers have indicated is very good on an xi. Word is that the 325xi's are in great demand, and dealers are having some difficulty getting them and therefore won't deal as much as on a 325i.

Best of luck with your new purchase as well. They are great cars.

errickson

Thanks to everyone for your input on pricing scenarios. I will check with all the dealers mentioned. I contacted "Franco" with Cutter Motors BMW (in California). He will sell for $1500 OVER INVOICE, but you have to get the car back home.

Good luck to all.

errickson

I will contact both dealers today!

ribbit3

I had the same concerns about a S.A. manufacture, but reasoned as you did. Besides, my dealer assured me that quality is not sacrificed and that all parts are still manufactured in Germany. I do not believe that all 3 series are manufactured in S.A. although I am not positive. I am waiting for an April delivery but am not getting a firm date. Is anyone else in this situation?

wong911

I'm from Austin, TX and I bought a 325i from Houston, TX in March (right now still waiting for the car to arrive).
The price I paid was $2000 over invoice (or about $1200 below MSRP). Plus, they'll throw in floor mats.
The rates the "BMW Center Houston" offer is 6.9%.

platypus

I've heard nothing but good things about Cutter Motors, but there are a couple of things you should be aware of since they are a California dealer. (I also considered purchasing from them.)

California dealers charge a 1% MACO advertising fee. It's built into their cost, so they pass it on to the consumer. Ends up being about $300 on the 3ers. Not all states charge an advertising fee, and the amount varies from state to state, and dealer to dealer. In the case of Cutter, a quote of $1500 over invoice really ends up being $1800 over invoice after including the MACO charge.

Also, I was told that in order to drive the car out of a California dealer, you are required to pay California sales tax (8% ???). This is higher than Texas at 6.25%. And I'm not sure if Texas will also try and charge you their 6.25% when you try and register the car locally.

One thing that I got into the habit of doing was not only asking for the "price over invoice", but also the "drive out" price. I found that the additional fees for licensing and documentation varied greatly from dealer to dealer: starting from as little as $45 at one dealer to as high as $300 at another.

Anyway, some more things to think about.

unboringuy

For whatever it's worth, I'm from Cincinnati, and couldn't get the local dealers to budge much (approx $800 from MSRP). I contacted other dealers in the general area, and found Frank Z Imports in Dayton (about 60 miles from here) to be quite reasonable. Salesman is Conrad Perry. I go to pick up my 330xi tomorrow. Regards.

errickson

Great info! Was not aware of the potential "hidden fees". The salesperson said they charge the salestax from your home state and then you title the vehicle when you get to Texas.

Everyones comments are greatly appreciated! Please keep them coming!

jimbres

Habberstad BMW (Huntington, NY) quoted me 38,335 for a June delivery 330i w/5-spd, SP, PP, Xenon & metallic paint. This amounts to a bit more than 6% over invoice (or 1,875 under MSRP, for those who prefer to think in terms of sticker). This seems fair to me, & I'll probably sign on the dotted line this weekend. What do you good folks think?

As far as color is concerned, I'm torn between steel blue w/grey leather & steel grey w/tanin red leather. I'd be grateful for your comments; my wife, who usually handles color issues for me, won't stick her neck out on this one.

langley2

If it were me choosing between those two color combinations, I'd definitely go with the steel blue w/grey (or black) ... or the steel gray w/black. The tanin red is rather garish for my tastes, and I'm pretty sure I would tire of it very quickly. Just ordered a steel grey 325xi w/black leatherette for myself.

brave1heart

In my experience, I had a lot more leverage bargaining with dealers in person than over the phone. Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a second and you'll know what I mean. If someone walks into the dealership and shows they are serious about buying and they know what they want and seem ready to do business, you'd be more willing to discount in order to get their business, right? Calling on the phone will not leave them with the impression that you necessarily mean business and they will quote their standard discount, which seems to be $700 off MSRP for most dealers. Try to stay calm when negotiating; be polite but firm and ready to walk out if they are unreasonable. The stock market crash and the economic uncertainty are making their way into dealerships. Even luxury dealerships are starting to feel the pain, believe me. Most reasonable deals (based on feedback from this website) seem to be in the $1,000-1,500 discount range for a 325i. You'd be closer to $1,000 if you are ordering and closer to $1,500 if you are bargaining for a vehicle that's on the dealer's lot. I ordered a 325i for $1,300 off, free mats, free paperwork processing, and 5.9% financing. As a reminder, you have to ask for the 5.9% financing, they will not take the initiative to offer it. Platypus made a good point of asking for the drive-out price, which may include additional charges the dealer is not telling you about.
I don't know enough about buying from another state but I think it would be a hassle. You won't end up paying sales tax to both states (that'd be double-jeopardy) but you'll definitely have to pay to the state where you buy from first. When transferring plates to your home state, you&'d have to show them you've already paid in the first state so they won't charge you again. You may even be eligible for a refund of the difference between the two states' rates for a certain time period after the purchase, that's something you should look into. All and all, it seems it would be too much hassle to buy from another state and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a serious financial incentive to do so. Good luck, let us know what you find out.
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brave1heart

platypus - you brought up an interesting point about MACO fees. Up here in Boston, every dealership that I talked to showed me actual invoices that had a roughly $500 MACO fee and a $110 training fee. Not absolutely sure about the numbers down to the penny but the total came up to about $610. I asked them if these are national or regional fees and they all told me that these are national fees. I'd be curious to find out what everyone else's experience has been with discussing MACO fees.

Keep in mind that invoice is invoice, MACO is a separate fee and it is not part of the invoice price. If a dealer quotes a price over invoice (none of the BMW dealers I worked with ever did that), I'd expect the commission over invoice to include the MACO fees. If you ask about their profit, though, that would be net of the MACO fees, so make sure you and the dealer are both referring to the same thing.
What does the acronym stand for anyhow - Marketing and Advertising Cost Overhead??
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willimjo

In #1331, referring to state sales tax, you stated "...but you'll definitely have to pay to the state where you buy from first"

Not true in many cases. Show the selling dealer proof of residence in another state and you won't pay state sales taxes or title/license fees. These will be paid you you register the car in your home state.

goody4

No MACO fees in Upstate or Central New York. This would include Syracuse, Utica, Elmira, Binghamton, among others.

unboringuy

You raise a good point. However, my experience was just the opposite. I spend a bit of personal time with the two local dealers, and got very little movement out of them. The deals I got from the Dayton dealers were internet and phone. In fact, when I pick up my car tomorrow, I will meet my salesman for the first time.

Even with much better deals in hand from the Dayton dealers, I was unable to convince the Cincinnati dealers even to get close to matching the deal I made. Go figure....

platypus

I doubt that MACO is a national fee since the dealer I purchased from did not charge me for it. I believe the training fee is national, but built into the invoice price. Let me share an example of what I learned in my search (figures pertain to a 330i with the following options: metallic paint, moonroof, CD, sport package).

According to various consumer information sources, the invoice on a 330i is $30,750. D&H is another $645. I had a CA dealer quote me $1500 over invoice. When I asked him to break down all the costs for me, it looked like this:

Invoice: $30,590
Metallic Paint: $405
Moonroof: $895
CD: $170
Sport Package: $1,020
Training Fee: $160
MACO: $305 (1% of invoice)
D&H: $645

Total: $34,190

Adding his quote of $1500 over invoice totals $35,690. This was the quoted price before TT&L.

Notice that in his breakdown, the invoice of $30,590 does not match my original $30,750 number. However, if you add the $160 training fee, then you get $30,750. This is why I believe that the training fee is a national fee and already built into the invoice.

I purchased my car from a dealer in NJ, and when he gave me the cost breakdown, all the numbers matched the CA dealer, except there was no MACO fee. This is why I do not believe that MACO is a national fee.

BTW, no idea what MACO stands for.

reubencahn

I've actually had the opposite experience and have found that dealers are more willing to negotiate by phone (actually fax) without the usual bs. My last two purchases were done this way. On each I got a very good deal.

The MACO is a regional advertising fee that is assessed on dealers in certain metropolitan areas. So even within the same state some dealers don't pay it. For example, dealers in S.Fla. pay the MACO fee of $500. The dealer in Gainesville where I purchased did not. The fee is sometimes termed "DAG" rather than MACO.

ceilidhbec

A DFW area dealer told me "MACO" stands for Manufacturer's Advertising Cooperative. He's charging me $250 for it, and says it's a mandatory fee the dealer has to pay. There's also a $160 training fee but it is included in the invoice price of the car.

batlanta

Does anyone know if the dealer can program the 330i (without the add-on alarm system) to blink the exterior lights when the key is used to lock and unlock the doors remotely? It's difficult to know if the doors locked unless you're close enough to the car to see or hear the lock action.

batlanta

I have the 330i SG with Black interior, and love it. But, if you're set on either the gray or tanin red interiors, I'd think about it this way: The tanin red will be more unique, and a very striking combination. The gray will be more common and conservative, but will probably have better resell value down the road. (I'd go with the red myself...and show it off every chance I got!)

errickson1

Just spoke to Richard Foard at Moss Motors in Lafayette Louisiana (3 hours east of Houston). If anyone (ie the guy in Arkansas) is looking for a great deal, this is the place. No haggling, no pressure, no bs. Called me back within minutes and quoted me $1500 over invoice. No additional, hidden fees, etc. He will add Texas sales tax (or wherever your from) and $140ish for title and license. Period. End of story. Just save me a 2 day trip to California!

BKSutton

Neighbor has 323 Convertable in SB with the Grey interior. Very sharp look and works well with the gray/silverish tones in the paint.
I think the Red interior is a nice option, but only on certain colors, such as the white, dark gray etc. Personally don't think its a great fit with the SB exterior. Just MHO.
-- BKS

platypus

Glad I was able to help!

So when are you taking delivery? Did you buy a car in his stock or did you order? Specs?

Let us know!

micga

Ribbit - I ordered my 325i on Feb 20. The dealer put the order in on march 12 and it was produced on march 20. My dealer tells me that it is on the ship and will be here definately by the end of april. However, my salesman doesn't seem to have a firm grip on these dates. He changed the manufature date 3 times. Why is it so difficult to track these cars and give customers a firmer date (+/- 3 days)?

silverprincess

Does anyone know the approximate price difference between a 2001 325i/330i sedan automatic vs. manual transmission? www.bmwusa.com doesn't seem to provide any information on this.

What is the difference between metallic and non-metallic paint? Is it worth it to get metallic?

Anyone have comments on the GPS navigation system as compared to other cars with this option? The dealer told me something about how it's still analog and not digital. Is it easy to use? How about the user interface? For those of you who have this option, is it worth the extra $1800?

Thanks all!

brave1heart

willimjo - You are right about my comments on paying the sales tax - I was assuming that you'd have to pay these to the state where you buy the car first thinking that the dealer will do all the paperwork for you. When you say this is not true in many cases and you pay the sales tax when you register the car in your home state, did you mean that you'd be registering the car yourself? I guess you can register the car yourself, I hadn't thought about that. Having the dealer do it would save a lot of time and hassle. If you are saving a lot of money, though - yeah, it'd be worth doing it yourself. Up here in Mass, the dealers typically have an express program with the RMV so they can register your car in no time. I'm not sure if this program is available to out-of-state dealers, so if I'd bought the car in NH, for example, they'd be able to do all the registration work for me directly with the Mass RMV. But I see your point - all you need is a VIN and an ownership document to register the car, so you can buy it anywhere and register it where you live. Up here in Mass, you need to pay the sales tax on the vehicle at the time you are registering the car, so you'd have to do that before you can drive the car off the dealer's lot. Like I said, it's a lot of hassle but I can see how it'd be worth it if there is a limited number of dealers where you live and they are unreasonable. Good tip, it's an option.
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brave1heart

platypus - thank you for the numbers. They clearly show that the training fee is part of the invoice. ceilidhbec confirmed the same from a DFW dealer. One of dealers I dealt with was trying to take me in on this - I guess they did that pretty well. They never revealed to me that the mid-year model had more standard features either, so they were gonna charge me for those too. Avoid the BMW Gallery in Norwell at any cost; that's the dealership I'm talking about.

I ended up ordering my car at BMW Peabody the following day and I would recommend this dealership to anyone in the Boston area!!! No BS there - very calm, honest and fair.
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christofori

Hi Platypus:

I am taking delivery of my 330 xi (Steel Blue baby) on 26th in Munich. I plan to be there till 5th of May. Would you like to share a beer?

drewsky2

i choose the steel blue & grey...seemed to work well w/ black contrasts....red definatly for other exterior...white/black.
best deal in NJ...3.69% over invoice
ALSO...would love lights to "blink", but don't think that is an option....
am i wrong??
drew

unboringuy

Drew:

Sounds like you got a great deal! My best deal among the dealers in Cincinnati, Dayton, Louisville, and Lexington, was 4.87% over invoice on a 330xi. The dealers in Dayton were willing to deal, but the others only made token discounts from MSRP.

alpine325i

This is totally off topic, but I have to share this. I noticed that BMW's are notorious for accumulating tons of disc brake dust, especially the front wheels. Even with sunny dry weather I find my wheels real dirty in less than a weeks time. I found a product called "kleen Wheels" that I found at Auto Accessory.com. They are thin aluminum discs that fit inside your wheel to keep the black dust and dirt from accumulating on the wheels. These aren't the old ones that would heat up the brakes and cause problems. These are the new ones with aero vents and are wheel specific. They work great! My wheels stay clean for a LONG time! They also look great on the car [325i] and fit perfect. The brakes or the "kleen Wheels" DO NOT heat up! The vents really work and you can't see them unless they are 2 inches from your face. They also make my wheels stand out better because they are black and hide the big rotors. So far I've driven 1200 miles and they still look like I just washed them. NO DUST! Sorry for the long post, but I had to share this because they really work. [$29,95 for a set of 2.]They were very easy to attach inside the wheels. The jack and lug wrench that came with my 325i is very easy to use, gotta love german engineering!

MarkinAtlanta

That is one solid jack! Wait until you get a flat at night, you'll have a real appreciation for the flashlight in the glovebox and a full size spare.

jhdevoy

I ordered my car on February 10 and it was built the week of March 10. It is currently "in transit" and is expected to arrive in the U.S. on April 12 and get to my dealer on April 19.

dcwong1

What do you Bimmer owners recommend for a 225-50R-16 for a non-sport 3-series? I'm looking for a high performance tire that offers good adhesion / handling quality. The tires need to last at least 30K and also perform adequately in snow. Any suggestions?

Has anybody bought the extended warranty on the car? Bought the full maintenance package (4 years, 50K)? How much does the 40K tuneup run?

willimjo

From my experience, "high performance" and "perform in snow" are mutually exclusive. Any tire that is good at one, will be a compromise with the other.

A good resource that has been pointed out before is tirerack.com. Give them a call, they are known as knowledgable and straight shooters. Their prices are also some of the best.

brave1heart

I've had great experience with the TireRack.com - great service and great prices. From what I remember, they have 5 or 6 tire categories based on the tire rating. There are no all-season tires in the ultra-high performance category, so I typically go with the best Z-rated all-season tires in the next category (high-performance tires). I've been using Dunlop SP5000 (before that SP4000) and I've been very happy with them. They are great on all surfaces - even in snow, I'd be typically going 20-30 mph faster than the rest of traffic and be comfortable with it. I do recommend Z-rated tires, as they handle better under all operating temperatures, not just high speed. It's similar to horsepower, which is not just good for top speed but also for any speed range. The SP5000's were about $90-120 a pop depending on the tire size and I typically get about 45-50K mi out of them. How many miles you get out of the tires depends mostly on how you drive the car, though. If you like spinning the wheels or power-sliding a lot, you may not get more than 20K with any tires. If you drive sensibly, you get a lot of miles out of the tires even with more aggressive driving.
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batlanta

1. Go to bmwusa.com, "build you 330i sedan" (or 325i sedan). You can view the prices of all possible options....auto vs. manual, etc.

2. Metallic vs. non-metallic. Completely depends on the color selected. Red, white and black are non-metallic. All other colors are metallic. I had a black 328i, non-metallic, and it looked great when clean. My new 330i is Steel Gray metallic, and i love it.

3. Skip the navigation system. Definitely not worth the price unless you do alot of traveling in unknown locals. You also cannot get the in-dash CD if you select the navigation system.

Hope this info. helps.

platypus

Wow - your dates are nearly identical to ours. We're scheduled to pick up the car on 4/25 and fly back on 5/4. Getting into Munich a day early so that we can visit the city - our plan is to leave Munich on the 25th shortly after taking delivery. The itinerary is not final yet, but I think it may look like this:

Munich --> Stuttgart (hitting the Romantic Road and Dachau along the way)
Stuttgart --> Innsbruck (hitting Neuschwanstein)
Innsbruck --> Salzburg
Salzburg --> Vienna
Vienna --> Munich

We're trying to see if Berlin is possible, but it's so far north.

Do you have an itinerary yet?

holeinone

Which dealer and which sales person did you use? I live in NJ also and I'm in the market for the 3-series within the next 3 weeks. 3.69% over invoice seems too good a bargain but I would rather that it's true! It would be of great help to me if you can also tell me the options you picked. Thanks!!

bmwbuyer

Please, anyone who knows, let me know if this is a good deal. I'm in the Los Angeles area and this is for 36 months and 12K per year. Thanks!

BMW 330i in Silver with Gray leather interior. Sport Package, Xenon Headlamps, Automatic Transmission, In dash cd and Harmon Kardon sound
system.

Minimum drive off and $480.61 plus tax.