BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

riez

Some of the more interesting articles include:

- "Getting a Grip on Wintery Roads", Motor Trend, February 1999. This article covers a report by US Auto Club using a RWD 328i vs an 4WD SUV and two FWD luxury sedans. Also talks about tests done by Jaguar. Shows the value of 50/50 weight distribution, good TC system, and winter tires.

- "What Price Traction: Snowbelt commuters are spending big for four-wheel drive in the name of improved traction. Is there a better way?", Car & Driver, May 1999. Winter tires improve performance for all configurations. AWD with winter tires the best for traction: "winter tires can improve straight-line grip by a much as a third relative to all-season tires. But four-wheel drive doubles the grip of a stock two-wheel-drive car when accelerating or climbing a grade."

- "Slip or Grip? Should your next sport sedan have all-wheel drive? We test to find out." Automobile, April 2004. Test A4 in FWD and AWD versions and G35 in RWD and AWD versions.

mschukar

C&D panned the snow tires on dry pavement, but i hear that a couple of brands of high performance snows are alnmost indistinguishable from all seasons on dry roads, as noted on this board

I've got the stock SP summer tires on 17" rims and Dunlop winter tires on 16" rims-there definitely is a difference, but I really like the SP option.

It does seem that the whole AWD craze that's happened in recent years is bit overblown in the marketing hype

I totally agree!

But bimmers in particular have had a notorious "fishtailing" rep in snow. Maybe it's just bad buzz.

I've demonstrated this to a few people in a parking lot after a couple inches of snow:
Push accelerator to the floor and alternately turn the wheel 1/4-1/2 turn back and forth...the car simply tracks right to left with NO fishtailing! Of course you can turn off the DSC and do a 180 with no trouble if you want, but winter tires and DSC make this car virtually fool proof.

Bottom line, if you're fine with FWD now, there is no reason to get AWD, especially if you don't mind swapping out winter tires.

-murray

brave1heart

I have tested the Dunlop M2 WinterSport tires up to their speed rating in the dry. The ride was very stable and quiet.

It's a lot easier to get our A4 with all-seasons to fishtail than the 325's with DSC on.

Braking in snow with the snow tires is significantly better than braking with all-seasons. You have to brake often. You rarely if ever climb very steep hills.

AWD needs more maintenance long-term. It may not last as long as RWD because it is more complex.

A RWD 3-series with SP will handle significantly better than an AWD 3-series, esp. because BMWNA does not offer a true SP on the AWD cars.

ponytrekker

are good in snow and indistinguishable from All Seasons on dry pavement. In snow, they rate about an 8 out of 10 because they do squish around in slushy snow.

As far as fishtailing, the BMW DSC really does a good job keeping you out of a spin. Last weekend, I was out on an empty big street at the crack of dawn. The ground was slick, so I turned the DSC completely off and floored it and it definitely fishtailed coming out of the start.

snoopy

I was following bmw's website and ended up looking at the UK's versions of the 3 series. One engine option they offer is a diesel powered 6 cylinder (as well as a 4 cylinder). I know these two engines are not offered here in the U.S., but was wondering if, with the ULSD (ultra low sulfer diesel?) fuel mandated by 2007, if anyone knows if bmw will be bringing that engine option stateside. I believe that Mercedes will be bringing a diesel version of their C320 to the US soon, and thought it would be nice to have a bmw as another choice.
Personally, I think the specs of the diesel version is pretty impressive.
Anybody have any ideas?
Snoopy

nyccarguy

Back even as few as 10 years ago I bought a set of Bridgestone Blizzkas for my 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (hey, we were all young and stupid at one time) to handle the trechearous and tumultous winters on hilly Ithaca, NY. While my car was amazing in the snow, the dry weather performance suffered.

Fast forward to the Winter of 2003/2004. I equipped my 2001 Honda Prelude with a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin Sport tires (minus 1) and steel wheels. Not only do they handle exceptionally well in the snow, but driving on them every day was quite pleasant. The taller sidewall gave me some extra cushion if I couldn't avoid a pothole. And I don't have to worry about cracking rims that cost well over $300 each.

Also remember that all season tires are jacks of all trades, but masters of none. Imagine only having one pair of shoes for working out, business meetings, formal affairs...

blueguydotcom

I'm shocked we don't see more diesels. Or diesel hybrids for that matter.

riez

snoopy... Diesel 3 Series is a huge success in Europe. [But about 40% of all European cars are diesels.] Automotive press has raved about 330d. Besides European press, you can read the highly positive reviews in Roundel (BMW CCA) and Bimmer magazines. Lots of people are looking forward to the not-too-distant-future day when we can buy the 330d!

mschukar

My boss's boss has a 330d and loves it (he lives in France). My boss (who has ridden in it) even commented that he would buy one if they were available.

I work for a division of Cummins so you don't have to convince me of the benefits of diesel!

-murray

kyfdx

I have winter tires in the stock sport package size.. 225/45-17. They are Goodyears. I think they are the only V-rated winter tire you can get in that size, unless you are getting run-flats.

For 95% of driving (or 100% of my wife's driving), you can't tell the difference between them and the stock Bridgestone Turanzas that came on the car. If you want to keep that crisp BMW handling all year round, I think the sport package with same size winter tires is the way to go... But, I definitely recommend the Goodyears. I think they are a step up from the Q- or H-rated winter tires.

As far as wheels for your winter tires.. I see sets of used style 44s for sale all the time for under $500. Considering you will be driving on dry pavement with them for 25 days a month for four months, I think its worth the expense. Plus, your summer tires last that much longer, helping negate the extra cost.

regards,
kyfdx

memphis10

Diesel costs almost the same as gasoline here in the U.S. while it costs about 40 - 50 % less in other parts of the world. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to have diesel cars here. Besides, maintenance costs are substantially higher on diesel vehicles.

mschukar

Therefore, it doesn't make sense to have diesel cars here

Diesel fuel has more btu’s per gallon than gasoline meaning you will generally get more horsepower and/or better mileage out of a diesel engine. This is illustrated by comparing the 330i & 330d on the international BMW site. The 330i gets 170 KW of power and 300 Nm of torque while the 330d gets 150 Kw of power and 410 Nm of torque. Note the extra 37% of torque for the 330d! This while getting 25% better mileage on the highway and 29% better in the city!

Seems to me that it makes sense to get 37% more torque and 25% better mileage! Oh, and the diesel had lower CO2 emissions as well.

Besides, maintenance costs are substantially higher on diesel vehicles.

Do you have some data besides the GM diesel disasters of the ‘80’s to back this up? There plenty of trucks on the road that are expected to run hundreds of thousands of miles without major overhauls.

FWIW, we can all thank GM for creating the negative perception the public has towards diesel engines.

-murray

div2

I attended one of the intros for the 524td back in 1985. The BMW PR guy began the presentation by thanking GM for "single-handedly destroying the North American market for diesel engined passenger cars."

mschukar

Yeah, here at work (a division of Cummins Inc.) we had a couple day course on diesel engine design. The comments on GM were along the same lines. Apparently they tried to simply convert a gas engine to diesel with minimal changes rather than do a design from the ground up.

Another thing mentioned, there was some legislation at the time limiting or prohibiting the use of diesel engines in passenger cars (I can’t confirm this).

Once again, Thank You GM!

-murray

blueguydotcom

Who ever wrote diesel is the same price as regular gas they don't live in CA.

Diesel sells for $2.00 a gallon here. Premium what a BMW requires is running $2.25 a gallon. 25% better fuel economy AND saving a quarter a gallon? Sign me up.

riez

Will be interesting to see how much diesel costs in CY 2006/07. It will cost more to go low sulphur. That is why the big trucking firms have fought "better" diesel. They want cheap diesel. But the introduction of low sulphur diesel should see an increase in demand by cars. Will that then lead to significant increases in production?

Americans have to keep in mind that European fuel prices are mainly driven by taxes. They have very high petrol taxes. Relatively lower diesel taxes, though still higher than in USA. The underlying cost of both petrol and diesel are similar to USA. We just have a different and lower tax structure.

div2

I've heard from "reliable sources" that Munich will test the waters with a diesel 3er once the low sulfur fuel is mandated; apparently the new diesels don't take well to the current US diesel rot gut. FWIW, BMW used an X5 3.0d as a support vehicle during the 12/01 4.6is press intro. I tried(and failed) to finagle a test drive...:(

shipo

Regarding Diesels: Ummm, forgive me if I got this wrong, however, I always thought that due to far fewer parts (moving or otherwise, such as no ignition system and no/simpler emissions systems) that diesel engines required significantly LESS maintenance and repairs than petrol powered cars (the aforementioned GM debacle not withstanding). Yes, no?

And another thing: When I was in Germany picking up my 530i, I was talking with some of the BMW folks at the ED center about a 530d that I saw out in the lot. They showed me some of the published BMW specs, and while the 530i was faster to 30 kph or so, the 530d had the acceleration edge (and a substantial edge it was) from there all of the way up to well past 160 kph. Yup, count me in on the "I'd get the diesel here if they'd just bring the darned thing over here" group. ;-)

Regarding Snows: I just returned from a several day 600 mile trip from New Hampshire to various points in NYC and out on the "Gyeland". Given that we had well over a foot of snow here just last week, I still have my Michelin Arctic Alpin winter set on my car, and I have to say, they handle well (maybe 8 tenths as well as the OEM SP rubber), and ride better than the OEMs on a long trip over typical New England and NYC roads. My previous BMW was a 1999 328i with the standard All-Season tires, and there was virtually no ride or handling difference between them and the Arctic Alpins. So much for bad driving characteristics on dry pavement.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

I doubt diesel will ever be popular among luxury car owners in the U.S. It's hard to convince Mr. Iam Sobusy that it's worth saving $5 by filling up at the Big Man Truck Stop...

nyccarguy

I remember reading about a year ago in CAR magazine. Their write up on the 330d convinced me to buy one if it were available. Unfortunately so many Americans think of their neighbors', in-laws' 1970-something Mercedes Diesel that belches smoke and clanks all the way down the block. It is truly a pity.

CAR also had wonderful things to say about an X5 3.0d which I believe they said averaged in the low 30's as far as mpg goes. That'd be incredible to have an SUV (which many Americans love), that handles and drives like a BMW (because it is a BMW), and gets good fuel economy.

I'm all for more diesels! Put me down on the list!

infomartn

About a month ago I had asked several questions about the 330i with ZHP. You and a few others were very helpful - thanks for the assistance. I put a deposit down today and should be picking it up Saturday. Can't wait. I actually started leaning towards an M3 - the car is amazing but couldn't justify the extra $12k for a car that I don't use for much more than commuting in rush-hour traffic. Plus, the new 911 coming out in the fall looks incredible. Now if only the stock market will double before my 36 month lease is up...

Thanks again.

houle1

Hi group,

I own a 325i 2001 and orderd my new 330ci last month.

Is there a place I can go to see where my car is in the production line?

Thanks
Robert
Can also email me at docupro@sympatico.ca

mschukar

diesel engines required significantly LESS maintenance

I was thinking of posting this, but diesels do have higher compression ratios and higher torque output at lower RPM's. Some of this may add to the maintenance.

I can tell you diesel emissions are pretty serious and complicated. I worked on exhaust filtration products for nearly 3 years. By 2007, that puff of black smoke will be history.

-murray

gordonwd

Do you want more information than what you get from the BMW site "Owner's Circle", or aren't you registered there yet?

If you're not registered, your dealer can provide you with a production number and you can then sign up for an Owner's Circle account and track the status of your car. The status is a couple of days behind, but it's not bad. The status goes On Order, In Production, Waiting to ship, In Transit (i.e., on a ship), At Prep Center (in the USA), and In Transit to Dealer.

My 325i just went from Production to Waiting to Ship today. It's getting closer!

325irav4

I noticed a loud rattle in the right rear of my 01 325i (only 20k miles)and called the dealer. He suggested pulling the wheel & looking for a broken coil spring and he was right. The top 1 1/8 rev of the coil had broken. I don't know of any rough bumps, etc. to cause this. How common is this? They will replace both rear springs next week.

jmess

Auto springs sag over time but breaking is pretty uncommon IMHO. Sounds BMW had a supplier quality problem. Hopefully you won't be charge for the problem.

kyfdx

specifically, but on other boards, I see lots of warranty work for suspension components.. control arms, bushings, etc.. I wasn't surprised to hear of yours, and it seems your service advisor wasn't either.

regards,
kyfdx

pat

is not a good idea, unless you don't mind being inundated with spam. Better approach is to make your address public in your profile so that folks who are logged in can find it if they are interested. The spam bots can't get it there.

Houle1, if I were you I would delete that message with your address in it.

dannyle

Hi

Quick question .. does the 325XI comes with the sport suspension already but not the tires ? I know that the 325CI have the sport suspension but not the tires. SO just wondering about the XI version.

thanks

kyfdx

that you don't get a sport suspension with the xi, even with the sport package..

regards,
kyfdx

dannyle

thanks kyfdx

tonpogi

Is this just for cosmetic or they they serve a purpose? like reducing wind noise?

blueguydotcom

I asked about it the first time I saw them and sure enough wind noise.

jean7of9

Owners Circle is not available to Canada. Your salesman has access to the progress chart and can update you on the production phase of your car.

alibajalajaula

After my exciting purchase of my new 330i with ZHP, I've been reconsidering the 5-year road hazard warranty I purchased for $595 for tires and wheels due to road hazards (nails, glass, potholes). It almost sounds like a winner considering the MSRP of an 18" alloy wheel is around 490 and a tire,well,220. However, I've been having second thoughts (I can still get a full refund within 30 days) because the fine print has lots of exclusions, like if the damage is due to hitting a curb, or a blowout caused by other impact. Plus they demand to send an adjuster to inspect the tire & rim before deciding if the payment proceeds. Has any of you out there ever taken any such type of policy? Blue, when you rear tire blew, did the rim survive? I read somewhere this new breed of BMW wheels (E46)is more resistant to impacts. Any feedback out there?

blueguydotcom

My tire got a nail that tore it up but the rim was fine. I just had S-O3s put on to replace my RE40s. Good grief what a mistake. My friend who uses 18 inch S-03s on his G35 swore by them. I want to swear AT him.

Live and learn...

Costco gave me some limited road hazard thing with the tires. I can't say I believe it'll pay off, but who knows.

blackhawker

Sorry for the enthusiasm guys, but i just placed my order and plumped down my deposit for my very own bimmer. I am jacked up!

YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT about the XI vs. the I...
I drove both back to back, manuals with sports package, and the difference was both surprising and very noticeable...the i really handled much better, much tighter...and the pickup accceleration was particularly much better - the xi really lagged in second gear. You could really feel the power in the 325i, yes, it was such an effortless acceleration. The ride on the i was firmer, but what you would obviously expect. It was such a clear, obvious choice...after all, buying a BMW one wants that penultimate driving thrill...wow, it was just so kool to drive the 325i, I love that car, I've never been so excited about getting a car before.

You know, after testing both (xi and i) back to back, i wonder why they offer the xi in manual anyway...if one was to get an xi I would strongly suggest automatic...it's just not suited to manual.

My final order:
Mystic blue
Manual (of course)
sports package
Black leatherette
power sunroof
power seats
xenons
cold weather package.

delivers in 6-8 weeks. Now i have a real question..how can i wait that long??!! :~)

You all have been fabulous in giving me advice on this board, really helped me out in many decisions, and guided me to the right purchase. Thank you so much.

Have a great day!
Blackhawker

soverypoornow

The beautiful part, Blackhawker?...that smile you're wearing right now...will reappear each and every time you get in your car.

Congrats!

dan4

All:
I test drove a saab 04 arc vs 04 325xi and much prefer the bmw. i wanted to buy the saab until i drove the 325. i have owned two saabs and do not like the new 9-3's. need buying advice on 325xi. want premium pkge, auto, leather,cold weather & metallic paint(oriental blue). 36 month 15k lease......any advice in north jersey. getting a $485/month price....also do i need leather. how is the leatherette? excited to join the bmw family

dan4

All:
I test drove a saab 04 arc vs 04 325xi and much prefer the bmw. i wanted to buy the saab until i drove the 325. i have owned two saabs and do not like the new 9-3's. need buying advice on 325xi. want premium pkge, auto, leather,cold weather & metallic paint(oriental blue). 36 month 15k lease......any advice in north jersey. getting a $485/month price....also do i need leather. how is the leatherette? excited to join the bmw family

bmw323is

Blackhawk, I ordered my BMW 4 years ago. It took a little over 3 months to get since I missed one of the ordering cutoffs by a couple of days and I live in the central USA. But EVERY night that I was home, I pulled out the dog-eared book on the 3 Series and looked at the pictures and specs - and dreamed of the car. It was nerve racking, but I must say the anticipation made the experience one of the best in my life. Enjoy it and congratualtions.

Dan, if you are leasing the car and can find it, get the leatherette. It will save you lease dollars and it is just a good as the leather, except for the smell.

memphis10

My 2003 325i, 5 speed shudders and vibrates when I start it for the first times. This is a recent thing and it is not the temperature because it is quite warm out here. It is not a normal idle RPM fluctuation. It is quite a violent shudder for about 2-3 seconds and it goes away. It doesn't happen for the rest of the day, just the first start. Has anyone experienced this before.

blackhawker

Dan - i just went through the same process you're going thru now with seledcting options...just my findings, after giving it a lot of consideration, i think the leatherette is a great choice. First, it's really of amazing quality, for a standard feature, very classy and impressive. It is basically indistinguishable from leather. The difference is mi-nute. Second, it wears better, won't get brittle, it's non-porous, so spills wipe up easier and you don't have to worry about any spotting. Third, it's like $1400 cheaper. For that amount of money, it's not worth the diff, just my conclusion. I took the grand and spent it on power seats, and still saved some. I also came to the conclusion that the performance package was not as good a deal as ordering power seats and moonroof separately. The on-board computer, dimming mirrors and myrtle wood were, to me, frills not worth the extra grand they cost. Plus the silver finish looks better than the myrtle, to my taste, on the black leather/ette seats, if you're going w/ black. One thing the guys on this board recommend which was the BEST advice is get the sports seats. You can order them separately if you hassle with the dealer about it. They're phenomenal, and i know they're going to make a big diff for years as i drive the car.
Best, and good hunting! ...BlackHawker

brave1heart

Congratulations!! Nice combo, great options!! Mine took 7 weeks order to delivery. For me, it was exciting having something so great to look forward to!! I did fine till I got a call from the dealer that I'll be picking up the car in a week. That final week I must have been thinking about the car 90% of the time. Needless to say, the night before delivery I was so excited, I had to use a lot of scotch to put me to sleep )

nyccarguy

definitely a great car you're getting! I'm sure the wait will kill you, but will be well worth it.

brave1heart

We were having a tech session with 3 autoX buddies last weekend and one of them sat in my car for a few minutes to help me bleed the brake fluid. At one point he said "This is leather, right?" I laughed and said "No. Vinyl." Funniest thing is, he has beige leather in his 325ci )

brave1heart

Why are you so disappointed with the SO3s? Everyone at driving events raves about them. I probably would've bought them if they weren't that expensive. The only gripes that I've heard about them is tread wear, stiffer ride due to the stiff sidewalls, and some noise after 10K or so...

kyfdx

You seem to have a lot of experience with tires. Please give me your opinion on this. I currently have the stock Bridgestone Turanza ER30 on a 325i Sport Package. I just bought a set of take-off wheels off a 330i Sport. M68s, staggered with Michelin Pilot Sports. What changes can I expect? I'm assuming a little more grip, but what do you think about ride quality and noise? The treadwear rating is actually higher on the Michelins than on the OEM Turanzas. I can never figure out what manufacturer's are thinking on their OEM tire choices.

regards,
kyfdx

div2

Hmmmm... I've also heard nothing but good things about the SO3s; all the track rats I know REALLY like them. I had Expedia SO1s on my M6 when I won my class at Oktoberfest 1994, and they were fantastic.

blueguydotcom

Why are you so disappointed with the SO3s? Everyone at driving events raves about them. I probably would've bought them if they weren't that expensive. The only gripes that I've heard about them is tread wear, stiffer ride due to the stiff sidewalls, and some noise after 10K or so...


Brave, every on-ramp I take triggers my traction control. I thought maybe they were overinflated- which they were - and adjusted the air pressure down. It didn't help. Launches, turns, etc the car doesn't seem to have nearly the same grip.

and yes, they're louder than my RE40s. My REs were bald and still held the road better. And were quieter. Bummer.

I think the toyos are the ones people online are suggesting most.