BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

shipo

Nuthin' but leather for my butt! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

merckx

Leather is certainally a nice luxury, and not one of the more frivilous ones either. But if money is at all an issue, I personally don't think it'd be a mistake to get the vinyl. It does take far less maintance,and will last longer. It doesn't breathe as leather does, but with a climate controlled car this should be bearable.
Leather is certainally one of the options I would consider first, but I could easily live with the vinyl...

blueguydotcom

I love my leather and because it's gray it doesn't get hot or really cold. It's just air temp or a little below always. Very comfy.

You might want to consider going with the ette and if you dislike it have aftermarket leather of your choosing put in. the leather quality will probably be way beyond bmw's normal leather.

bmwfrevr

have you considered 330i, you can get a really good deal on used ones normally 1-2k more than the 325i, I did that last year when I purchased my wife's 330i. And trust me the extra hp is worth every penny. i would look into may be into private owners you should get a nice deal.

good luck,
p.s. I had replied to your message earlier but I do not see it here I do not know what happened to it!

dl7265

My friend HAD(totaled) until last week a 1995 318i Conv Black/Black ette. 165K miles on the clock.The ette imo looked brand new.I did notice it being a tad warmer than my Grey leather car..

DL

kyfdx

1) Actually, a two-year old car with 23K is just the type of car that most dealers CPO.. Either, they think they can get more profit by not CPOing the car, or there is some reason that they can't CPO it...

2) If it is at the BMW dealer, ask for a BMW vehicle history report... A service advisor can run this in just a couple of minutes.. It will show the entire service history of the car, the warranty expiration date, etc., etc.. Sometimes, there are very "interesting" things on this report.

3) If the car isn't CPO, I'd say it is worth $23K, at most.. If they won't budge from their asking price, I'd shop elsewhere...

regards,
kyfdx

ggs2

kyfdx; in response to your most recent reply,i called the dealership and requested the vehicle history report.this vehicle has been in their possession all along and has been used as a courtesy car.first oil change was done at 15,783 miles using synthetic. two other items were attended to also.a software update mandated by bmw and a battery replacement.would you consider this car based on the fact that it has been used as a courtesy vehicle? if they refuse to make it a cpo,would you pay 23,999 for the car versus their asking price of 24,999? i plan on going to talk to these people on saturday.thanks for helping me out.

brave1heart

Are you kidding me? Loaners are probably abused more than rental cars. I would not consider buying it unless it is at least 20% cheaper than equivalent cars that have been well cared for.

blueguydotcom

Sorry man, a courtesy car is the one you do the stuff to that you'd never consider with your own car. It's a rental. Rentals mean speed bumps are really launch pads.

kyfdx

Well... I sort of agree with brave1heart and blueguydotcom in theory..

In practice? Most BMW loaners that I've driven have been in pretty good shape... I know a couple of people that have bought them, and had very good luck with them.. Usually the loaners are automatic, and don't have the sport package, so they aren't geared towards hotrods.. And, it isn't like they are being loaned out at a KIA dealership, where the drivers would need to "try out" the performance.. Every driver that gets a 325i loaner already drives a car that is that nice or better...
Of course, that doesn't mean it wasn't ever driven hard.. just that it isn't like buying a Hertz rental..

Now, it makes sense why they aren't CPOing the car.. The loaners come with an extra 3mo./5K added onto the warranty...

On the plus side.. in 23K miles, the car has only had one problem.. and that is the battery.. That is a pretty good record..

If you like that car, I'll reiterate my feeling from before.... $23K max... I'm actually surprised they still have it around... Most loaners are sold around the one-year mark with about 10K-13K miles..

Now, if it had leather, xenons and the sport package, you might be looking at $25K-$26K...

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

And, it isn't like they are being loaned out at a KIA dealership, where the drivers would need to "try out" the performance.. Every driver that gets a 325i loaner already drives a car that is that nice or better...
Of course, that doesn't mean it wasn't ever driven hard.

Guess it's me but I beat the hell out of loaners. I'm pissed I'm driving an auto (usually - i did get an x3 3.0 6 speed last year for a weekend) and it's a 325i. I'm gonna wring that little bugger out.

kyfdx

Ummmm... don't you beat the crap out of your own car, too? (minus the speed bump launches, that is)....lol

blueguydotcom

I'm careful with my car too. A dip in the road means slow way down so as not to scrape the chin. Bad pavement means keep my eyes peeled for potholes, etc. Heck, I don't bring my car downtown to work but leave it safely in the garage.

So while I press it hard in corners and hold the engine to 5k+ (after a warm up in the garage) on shifts, on the flip side I do everything possible to keep it looking and riding in tip top condition.

kyfdx

You know... if I wasn't so lazy.. I would search for this quote:

"Drive it like you stole it!"

Sound like anyone you know? ;-)

blueguydotcom

That's true to a point. I'm not talking about running into stuff or doing anything that will outwardly damage the car though. My tranny might be messed up...dunno. My suspension tweaked but I tell you it's only from pushing the car to the apex all the time. I don't want to punish the car - just drive it like I want it to give me every last ounce of fun.

brave1heart

It's not using high RPMs and pushing the car hard in corners that would worry me - I do that every day with my own car. But I make sure that it is properly and gradually warmed up, cooled down before I shut it off, etc... I drive it hard but I take care of it. A loaner that's been abused for 20K miles (even though probably less than a KIA loaner), will be more expensive to maintain than a well cared for BMW long-term.

jroth

I recently purchased a 2000 323i (my first Bimmer.)
It's a beautifully maintained one-owner car with an immaculate service record and is in pristine condition. However, it has 99,000 miles on it and I'm concerned about what mechanical issues and costs I may be facing. I'd be interested in hearing anybody's experience with a 323i with similar mileage. Also, with proper maintenance and responsible driving, how many miles can I expect before encountering major issues? Thanks!

rworrell

Isn't a loaner a courtesy from the dealer? They don't HAVE to provide this to you. My BMW dealer has usually provided Ford Tauruses as loaners. I don't like driving one (and this last time I got an X3, which I like), but I also don't beat on the cars. Doesn't beating on a loaner: a) make it less enjoyable for the next customer that gets one and b) make the dealer less interested in providing that service?

I don't want to sound like a goody-two-shoes here or anything, but I've never understood abusing a courtesy/privilege.

Of course, I also watch in dismay as people scoop up literally handfulls of mints at local restaurants while leaving as I enjoy my single red-and-white striped treat, so what do I know...

kyfdx

Yeah..but, what about those multi-colored mints that they just put out in the bowl, with a big spoon.. You know the ones I mean? They look kind of like big peanut M&Ms?

Now, I'm feeling guilty... I swear my family of three had about 15 of them between us last Saturday night, leaving an Italian restaurant.. Now that I think about it.. I might have seen a few looks of dismay....

You weren't in KY last weekend, were you?

kyfdx

I tell you what... I have the day off, tomorrow.. And, I'm taking my wife's car in for service, and they are giving me a loaner (only BMW loaners at my dealership)..

I promise not to abuse it.. (unless they give me an M3..then, all bets are off).

regards,
kyfdx

rworrell

a) The mint rule only applies to individually wrapped mints--one per customer

b) If a dealer gives you an M3 as a loaner, they've also given you the "Go nuts" permit to go with it--take pictures and let us know how it goes!

kyfdx

All kidding aside.. (except about the mints.. my wife and son just killed them on that).

I am getting a loaner tomorrow.. Last time it was an X3 3.0.. Which was great, as I hadn't driven one before.. I'd love to get a 5-series this time.. Haven't had much seat time in the new model... And, with the day off, I'll get to drive it farther than the 15 miles to and from work....

And, I don't think most people beat them..

Also, in answer to brave1heart's point.. Most people don't treat their cars the way he does.. I think the loaner is probably treated on average, the way most people treat their cars.. If you were buying any used car that had 23K on it, you'd have no idea how it was treated.. unless you were buying from someone you know...

I'm not saying that makes me want to buy a loaner.. the concerns about them are all valid... I just don't think it means you are buying trouble...

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

I don't want to sound like a goody-two-shoes here or anything, but I've never understood abusing a courtesy/privilege. ,/I.

Perhaps, but i've got an extra car so I'm not relying on the loaner. I only take a loaner if it's a bimmer and thus I can avoid putting miles on any of my cars.

as for the next guy, lol, you should see the talk on here about how people should avoid a CPO 2003 330i ZHP in So Cal around May 2006. <-- ie my leased 3.

webby1

"Also, in answer to brave1heart's point.. Most people don't treat their cars the way he does.. I think the loaner is probably treated on average, the way most people treat their cars.. If you were buying any used car that had 23K on it, you'd have no idea how it was treated.. unless you were buying from someone you know... "


I have to agree with you since the loaners usually have a few thousands miles on them and if the car is a lemon you know by then. My dealer has 320i and 325i as loaners and I have driven great ones and crappy ones...same model so you can look at it different ways. From observation it is the BMW staff that drives the crap out of them and not the customers. If I want something different for a loaner I usually get my salesman to give me his...he drives something different every time I see him...can not loose either way !
Regards,
Webby

kyfdx

Okay.. I'm bummed.. I got a 330Xi...

Nice enough.. only 1800 miles.. couldn't find any speed bumps to launch it off of.. ;-)

Actually, it was raining, and I didn't even look to see what I was getting.. So, I had to figure it out as I was driving..

1) Boy, do I love sport seats... That was the first thing I noticed.. The regular seats in the 330Xi are like riding on buckboards, compared to mine.. I'm sure if I didn't have sport, I wouldn't notice though..

2) With a slushbox, the 330xi is not a powerhouse... I did notice the car was a "little" faster than my 325i, but didn't even realize it was a 330...

3) With no sport package, and AWD, you really lose that connected feeling with the steering.. Especially just cruising down the freeway.. It does feel better, once you push it into a corner...

4) I noticed the HK, and thought that was a strange option for a 325i loaner... I stopped for coffee just before I got home, and noticed the window sticker folded up between the seat and console.. It wasn't until then, that I knew I was driving a 330xi..

5) I like the sport steering wheel better, also.. The 330xi does look nice with the 17" wheels (not as nice as a RWD sport package, though).

When I dropped my son off this morning, he said, "If they give you a convertible, pick me up in front of school, with the top down (37F)". He is going to be bummed, too...

regards,
kyfdx

mjday1972

I also had a 330xi loaner recently (for my brand new 325i). It was nice, but I didn't feel that the car was much better than my 325i. The steering was much heavier, it was not quicker off the line, and I think one of the speakers was blown (it had the HK upgrade).

I was glad to get my 325i back.

kyfdx

Actually, that should have been my first clue.. HK is standard in 330s...

Still, a very nice car.. just doesn't feel as sporty as mine...

shipo

Hmmm, all of this talk about not feeling the low end torque of the 3.0 liter mill makes me wonder just how much of a trade-off saddling a car with an automatic transmission is, and then further compounding the situation by adding the weight and mechanical drag of AWD on top of that. Consider the following published 0-60 times (from the BMW USA web site):

5.9 -- 330i ZHP (I assume with the Manual or SMG gearbox)
6.4 -- 330i 6-Speed Manual
6.9 -- 330xi 6-Speed Manual
7.0 -- 330i 5-Speed Automatic
7.1 -- 325i 5-Speed Manual
7.5 -- 330xi 5-Speed Automatic
7.6 -- 325xi 5-Speed Manual
8.1 -- 325i 5-Speed Automatic
8.8 -- 325xi 5-Speed Automatic

Yikes! Almost three seconds (probably more) between the fastest E46 and the slowest. For those of you who are driving a 325i 5-Speed and get a 330xi Automatic loaner car, you probably won't know that you are driving behind a 3.0 liter mill because it is actually slower than your 325i.

I guess that this just underscores why I was having a difficult time understanding someone over on the 5-Series forum who claimed that his 525iA nearly as fast as a 530i with three pedals, and that by opting for the bigger engine, I had wasted my money.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Now.. you are making me feel bad..

I had to get the slushbox.. It is my wife's car.. OKAY?? lol...

shipo

Oops! Sorry about that.

[Shuts mouth and gets back to work] ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

webby1

Interesting....BMW Canada 0 to 100 km ( 0 to 62 MPH )all numbers are approx .5 sec slower !?

325i 7.6/8.6
330xi...7.5/7.9
330i....6.8/7.4/6.8
330iM....6.4

I can tell you that there is something wrong with this picture...friend has 325 auto and the difference between his and mine 330i is day and night !

Regards,
Webby

shipo

Hmmm, half of a second to accelerate another 2 mph? My gut feeling says that that seems a bit long. I'll have to think about that one for a bit.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mark_325i

an overrated benchmark.

blueguydotcom

You're right, it should be 0-75.

Honestly, twice a day I pull up to a freeway stop light. When the light dings green I've got a short strip of asphalt until I have to be going at least 70 or so to merge comfortably.

This is done 10 times a week. It's very important, IMHO.

shipo

0-75? Works for me!

Best Regards,
Shipo

kominsky

What is top speed in second gear? Does 62mph require a shift into third? That might explain a big chunk of the difference.

blueguydotcom

Depends on the car. I can hit over 60 in second in my 330i perf pack. 3 rd is good almost to 100.

mark_325i

all of these cars are pretty quick.

peakpro

I aaw these number before I purchased my 325i two weeks ago. Based on these numbers I went with a 5 speed manual at a cost of $5000 less than a similar 330i I was looking at.

Even the dealer said before I tested each that with the manual there was no need to go with a 330i.

I got the 325i with the sports package and it has exceeded all of my driving needs and wants.

shipo

You are correct, there certainly is no need for the 330i, however, in my case, there definitely is want. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

potemkin

I'll second that.

Doing triple digits on my trip to FL, though the car was cruising comfortably, I definitely felt a little pang of regret that I didn't get that one extra gear hanging out there on the end.

But then again, I cheer myself up by thinking of all those who are less fortunate... You know, the one's who bought automatics.

kyfdx

I did just realize one possible drawback to purchasing a loaner car...

My loaner was given to me with a full tank... I've already driven about 40 miles today... I'll have to fill it up, before turning it in this evening...

How many people do you think pay for premium when filling up their BMW loaner?

blueguydotcom

Yes there is no need for a 325i either. It's all about desire.

BTW, the dealer probably didn't have a 330i manual on the lot. And if he did maybe he thought you wouldn't be up for buying it. Good salesguys can figure out from whence the buyer is coming and strive to meet the buyer's needs. Bad salesmen only push the most expensive product and don't listen. Sounds like this guy told you what you wanted to hear.

My bro-in-law, who had driven my 330i perf pack told my salesguy when he was looking that my car was too much - too loud, too fast, too much car. He simply wanted a 5 speed 325i. My salesguy didn't argue, he nodded and took Paul to the 325i's with manuals.

blueguydotcom

Are you gonna put premium in it? Don't most of us just fill it with a garden hose?

j/k...I may be a bad to rentals but I'm not THAT bad.

blueguydotcom

Potemkin, some with attack me for this but so what...that 6th gear is nice when you're screaming through the Nevada desert at 1 am doing 120 mph with forays into the 130s. Smooth as silk. And I got over 25 mpg doing that. Drive back to San Diego was a more sedate average of 100 mph - 30 mpg.

It's times like those I wish we had autobahns. I wanna see 150!

shipo

I wanna see 150!

Hehe, next year when I go to Munich to pick up my E90 330i, I'll see your 150 and raise you 5. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

If they really do the 4 door e90 M3, i'll wait until 2008 and make a trip over there to see the north side of 150 too.

shipo

Sounds like fun, can I come too? ;-)

Best Regards.
Shipo

dhanley

I got a z3 3.0L last time (which was awhile ago).

It was a riot! I really enjoyed that. My wife dove it most of the day ( i was busy ) and when we reurned it i think she was ready to trade in her saab on the spot.

dave

peakpro

I would say that you are normally correct but not in this case. I own a 2004 3.0i Z4 and the dealer knew that.

I test drove both the models manual and settled on the 325i. I just didn't think the 330i was worth the extra money with a MT.