denright - yep, I think you are being ripped of. One of the unscrupulous dealers tried it with me too. Go to bmwusa.com for the exact pricing - edmunds.com has not updated their pricing info. The HK and two more options (I forgot) are standard on the MY330i; 3 options on the 325 as well. As far as pricing, my 325i SP is less than 31.5K very nicely equipped with everything that I wanted. The 330i would be even nicer but you know what, the 328 was "only" 190 hp and it never felt underpowered. With the 325i SP manual, I feel like I can take just about anyone out for a little fun ride and come out ahead. Ultimately, there is a lot more to a car than straight-line acceleration. I still would not pay 4-5 grand premium for an otherwise identical 3-series but it all comes down to personal choice and how you want spend your money. If I were after the ponies alone, I would've bought an American muscle car. I couldn't be happier with the choice I made - I love my 325i. Besides, it's more fun driving a car 10 out of 10 at its limits )
I hear what you're saying about the 325 and the 184 HPs being plenty, and the joys of handling vs. straight line acceleration. This is why I qualified my earlier post by admitting that I am a meathead. Ha ha!
I have left my salesman a message. I will be speaking to him shortly. I am quite certain he will fix this for me and apologize. I actually suspect this was my fault, because I based my offer on old options info from www.cars.com. They have no updated their info, but hadn't when I ordered. In any event, I'm sure this will be rectified directly.
This little bonus will bring my purchase price down to $38,475 (including mats and $200 advertising fee) -- a little more than $3,000 over what I was originally considering paying for a loaded 325xi. I am THRILLED.
That's how they almost got me too. I kept talking about a discount from MSRP and the salesman was talking about a particular price; he was carefully avoiding quoting his price in terms of discount off MSRP or premium over invoice. I almost fell for the trap (this was on March 11-th) but figured, well, I should go talk to at least one more salesperson before I sign the deal. The last salesperson I talked to had the integrity to tell me about all this and she did quote her price in terms relative to MSRP ($1,300 discount), so there would be no gray area in case pricing changed again. I think your situation is a little more delicate because the dealer may come out saying 'I thought you knew and that's he price I really thought you wanted to pay...' I'm sure you'll find a way to convince him, though. I was running a painting biz to support myself thru college and they always used to tell me 'Watch out for lawyers, litigation is free for them. I agree that if you are getting the AWD, the 330 is much better. The added 250 lbs. from the AWD will be more than offset by the added power of the 330 and I think in this case it's well worth the extra money. To be completely honest, I would have gladly taken another 20 horses on the 325i but 40 at 4-5 grand was not worth it in my case. The money I saved is happily invested and working hard towards my Porsche 911 Carrera.
deepdarkblu - just saw your car. It's still in 111 status, so it's at least a few weeks out for production.
unboriguy - there are two 330xi cars going to Ohio dealers in black/sand with xenons and SP but, the second I select CWP, it comes back with zero matches. Did you order it in OH and if so, can you verify CWP?? BTW - They're both in 111. Tell me the dealer name/city and confirm Jet Black w/ sand leather and I'll tell you what's what.
tcn2k - they'll have your car by end of next week (or that week-end, perhaps)
Just wanted to get back to you. You indicated you were looking for a good deal in L.A., and mine worked out GREAT. Please let me know if you still need the info.
I just wanted to calm the troll down a little, I drove the IS300, to me it doesn't even come close to a BMW for all of the obvious reasons. Trolls who bad mouth everybody like that should be banned from at least THIS discussion. Can our moderator do this? I know I should have ignored the troll from the beginning, I will ignore him from now on )
I took the liberty of sending an E-Mail several hours ago to one of our hosts (L8_Apex) and asked if he could look into the posts from our pet varmint. He just responded that due to the vast number of posts on our board, that he was guilty of skimming. Now that he is aware of the problem, he promised to take a peek.
I've been very patient but I guess I'm your lowest priority :I) Remember 330xi, NJ, Steel Blue, Steptronic, Black Leatherette, delayed, miserable, confused, desperate, pain in the neck, etc., etc.???
I would still love to get the info -- I am still shopping offers and not happy with most of the places I have visited. Feel free to post or email me at edgar_newt@yahoo.com. Thanks in advance.
shipo - it' s funny - I also left a msg in the suggestions box stating that our discussion here has been intelligent and beneficial to all of us and that the kid is offensive with our posters and is changing the quality of discussion dramatically. alp - good man. We won't learn much fighting stupidity. Just goes to show that kids should not be left unattended. And, honestly, the more I hear about how much BMWs are not a good deal or whatever, the more convinced I am that I made the right choice. Get this: I still have my old Jetta VR6; it's still quicker than my BMW and you know what: I have not even thought about driving it. Going for all-out acceleration only is like a teenager focusing on the extra-large fake boobs instead of going for the complete package; that comes with a little more maturity and oh, yes, it's much better.
Alp, I've noticed a marked improvement in my HK's midrange after spending a week with the car. Just like you said. I gotta tell ya - the two subwoofers do miracles for the depth of sound. I did notice that there was sth missing in midrange at first but it's been getting MUCH better. The Bose in the A4 is also a great system and the sound may even be a little more dynamic, I'm not exactly sure. But the subwoofers are sth else. Great system for the money. I do see your point that it could be better than this but it would take a bit more money and hassle.
First off, sorry. I was actually doing it when some clients came in and I only just got free. I did find one car like that. It's going to Mt. Kisco, NY. Is this yours??? It's the only one in production right now. OR - If its going to Open Road in Edison, then it's in 111 so it's still a few weeks from production. Again, sorry. You were never a low priority. It does take time to narrow it down to each persons car with the info I get. In future people (if there's anyone I've not yet told!!) I need car type color (in and out) a few key options and the name of your dealer or the city they're in. Thanks!
gurumike: have you thought about charging for your "car locator" service?!! lol I have an interesting question for you: My dealer told me that I have virtually the last 2001 "xi" being built in Germany; do you think that is correct? Sounded like a very obvious sales gimmick, but given the demand and supply ratio and the imminent 2002 MY around the corner, I thought it could be possible. What do you think? Also, my partner has a 2001 325xi/silver/gray/step/cwp/pp/xenons/cd coming in to marlton NJ also.......any idea about his status? take your time! no rush! veekay1
Unfortunately, mine is going to Open Road in Edison :-( Any clue what the heck is going on??? It was ordered on 3/28 with minor changes on 4/7 and still 111 - feels like they have somehing against me or may be my dealer screwed up somewhere. I guess there's nothing I can do other than getting more and more frustrated. I don't why I can't get a real scoop from BMWNA either.
yep...i have all those options on the jet black 330xi...AWD SP, PP, and CWP, xenons, and cd player. Ordered from Frank Z Imports in Dayton, OH. It's a long story, but this is my SECOND wait. Seems like the second wait is worse than the first.
zman - 3-28 order, here's how your story unfolded... a few days before you ordered, they would've gotten May allocation (been advised how many of each model to order). Assuming they were allocated as many or more cars for production as they had orders for (i.e. they didn't already have 5 unfilled orders, yours being the sixth and they only got allocated 4 cars) then yours would be a May car. As I say, there is at least a chance they already have May full and yours is a June car. Anyway, so say it's a week 22/23 car, it's quite feasible that it would show "111" but still get built/finished by the end of the month. In any event, If you ordered it that long ago, they didn't have any modifiable April cars and had May orders to fill as well, I can't imagine it'll be "111" for more than a few more days. Remind me next Monday or Tuesday. It's worth the wait!!
veekay1 - last xi being built???!! Well, for the 2001 MY and relative to when the first ones were built, it is more towards the end. But there'll likely be a few thousand more after yours!! And when they come back from summer vaction and the same car is called a 2002 MY, they keep on building 'em !!
unboringuy - like for zmantop, the next month will come and go before you know it, and then you'll be making plans to go pick it up !! But don't hate your sales person. Most of them (sadly even at BMW!) aren't usually the sharpest and he/she was probably just trying to add some excitement to this, what is, a special event for you. The intentions were good.
I typically like it on the loud side. Either that or I'd switch it off so I can listen to the BMW symphony :0) I vary the bass between +4 when louder and +7 when softer. I always thought that I didn't like TOO much bass but I guess I do judging by the fact that my bass setting is typically higher than yours. So it sounds that to you at least, the mid bass is lacking and if you keep the bass lower (like +2 +3) you'd correct some of that? As far as the treble, I typically leave it at around +2, maybe +3 and vary mostly the bass. I always keep the fader right smack in the middle. Is that OK (I'm sure you have much better ears than me)? The fader seems to be shifting more sound to the front and taking it from the rear speakers at high. Too much fader seems to be robbing the sweet spot and too little sounds too distant. I was listening to some Miles tonight - Autumn Leaves and Something Else must be my favorite jazz pieces ever. Those sound great on any speakers.
It's back to biz as usual then. Question on maintenance: my dealer is saying that I don't need to go in before my computer tells me to. I've heard some people say that you should replace the oil filter when the car is broken in. Some say 4,500 miles. What has your experience been? I'm inclined to just trust the engineers but I value your opinion a lot and I'd be curious to find out what you'd recommend. Anyone else, please give us your 2 cents too.
It's true about changing it after the engine has run in on most older cars, or high performance cars (the M3 and M5 both require a 1200 service, but thats all the extra they need compared to other models). But most modern cars have engines built to such high quality that the "shavings of metal" etc that are collecting in it are filtered out very efficiently by the oil filter. This means the oil stays clean. Even the pre-synthetic years ('99 and earlier) the engine would routinely go 10k miles without needing a change. Since 2000 MY every BMW has synthetic oil which is massively less prone to break down/contamination that regular mineral oil. Subsequently its useful life is many times that of mineral. In summary, it can seem alarmingly long to take a brand new engine to 14,000+ miles with some good strong-armed driving with-out ever even adding oil!! But think about it - every heard of progress? Ideally the engine, like those new 5 speed automatics, will soon become a sealed item which no longer needs such maintainence.
When I first started posting on this board back in 1998, there was a large outcry from the "3000 mile" loyalists. They were determined to change their oil at 1000 and then every 3000 thereafter. As far as they were concerned, anybody who did not follow their plan was an idiot. I did not agree, needless to say, I sort of felt like a salmon swimming up stream. It seems that this debate has started up once again over on the "E46 Problems" board.
I will re-post what I said over there a few days ago, and then add another thought.
Previous post:
Consider the following points:
- Modern LEV (3-Series) and ULEV engines running with modern fuel produce a mere fraction of the combustion gunk (a very technical term ;-) that is) generated by an engine from just 5 years ago, the result, extended oil change intervals.
- Synthetic oil has a far superior ability to hold said gunk in suspension when compared to conventional oil, the result, extended oil change intervals.
- BMW has seen fit to almost double the amount of oil in the reservoir when compared to other engines of similar displacement, more oil means more ability to suspend particulate matter and protect the engine, the result, extended oil change intervals.
All of which makes frequent oil changes a waste of money and harmful to the environment.
Additional comment:
The above re-post does not address that "First" oil change at about 1000 miles. That used to be important because of the large manufacturing tolerances used by lesser marques and in days gone by. Said large tolerances required a "Break In" period so that little extra bits of metal and such got ground off and dumped into the oil pan. It is my understanding that BMW (and a few others) now manufacture engines with such small tolerances that any bits of metal set free by the break in process (if any at all) are easily dealt with by the oils' ability to hold them in suspension and of course the filter.
I normally turn my cars in every 3 to 4 years. I am toying with keeping my 328i well into the 100,000 mile range just to see if the BMW engineers know what they are talking about. Obviously, I am betting that they do.
Apparently there is a light on the dash cluster that alerts you when your oil is down by about .75 of a quart. If said light comes on, add oil. The shortest interval between lights on an E46 I have heard of was about 4000. In my case, I am approaching 26,000 with my one oil change at about 14,500, and have never seen the light.
I'm going long the BMW engineers and selling the E46 problems board short - that should be a pretty good hedge :O). I am totally with you on that. I've always thought that even 3K oil changes on regular cars are a complete overkill. It is a marketing gimmick promoted by the likes of Jiffy Lube. Yeah, you can get a haircut every week too and it won't hurt but is it worth the hassle? I've been doing oil changes every 5K for my Jetta VR6; I've had no engine-related problems for 95K miles and it runs like new. Yep, I am too planning on keeping my BMW for over 100K miles and I want to take very good care of it. I am convinced that going with the engineers is a good plan.
Though I think the 325Ci w/ SP wheels look great, I'm contemplating getting the Double spoke composite wheel, style 71. Three questions: 1) Style 71 is 8x18 front 225/40ZR18 and rear 8.5x18 255/35ZR18. Can I just get the 225s for front and rear (I want to be able to rotate the tires so they last longer) 2) Can I swap them out with the original 325Ci SP wheels (and pay the difference if there is one)? Perhaps this is an individual dealer issue. 3) If the #2 is possible, is this something that can be done when the car is produced in Germany or will it have to be done at my dealer?
To everyone (but trolls)--I apologize for the negativity of my posts in response to v_tech. It just sets me off when I see someone just trying to ruin a good thing. Glad it's over (fingers crossed).
The heating and the A/C on most (if not all) cars are two completely separate systems that happen to come together under the dash. It is highly unlikely that the "Cooling Thermostat" will have anything at all to do with you're A/C not working properly. Three things; 1) either you're A/C system is hosed up and you need to talk to the dealer, 2) make sure that your snowflake button has been pushed, just setting 59 degrees does NOT turn on the A/C, or 3) you have the air vent temperature dial in the middle of the dash set on full red. In my car in the summer, if I turn that dial to full blue, I get "Arctic In January" coming out of the middle vent, if I have it set on full red, I get "Death Valley in August".
I'm sure you can. It seems likely, given the different models which do have the same size wheels all round, that you must be able to do that. But take a look at what those wheels are going to cost with mounting etc. Now, if you'll consider getting HK on the 325, the extra cost would get you into a 330, and then be happy with the wheels its sport pkg comes with.
I have been a veteran of a few message board wars. While they are usually stupid and pointless, I would like to just take a moment to admonish my fellow bimmer lovers to consider the value of the market of ideas.
When someone like v-tech comes into the midst of a discussion like this, it is easy to become adversarial and to essentially shout the person down. Indeed, sometimes people take the extra step of simply trying to have the person censored and removed.
While in some circumstances a message board poster may be so immature and so disruptive that this may be an appropriate remedy, I honestly do not believe this to be the case with our resident naysayer. Although he is probably not terribly bright, and although he disagrees with most of us (including me) concerning the merits of the 3 series, I value dissenting voices in my life.
Dissent forces many to consider the veracity of assumptions that would not otherwise be questioned. This dialectic -- thesis/antithesis/synthesis -- is incredibly valuable in terms of arriving at new insights and developing a sophisticated understanding of any topic.
Before we try to simply silence those that disagree with us, perhaps it would be to all of our benefit if we tried to reason and discuss rather than insult and berate.
All that said, I think a Lexus is nothing but a Toyota with gold trim and I laugh at anyone who would waste his money in such a manner.
Hi Mike, Can you find out the exact day the car is built? I want to check "horoscope" of mine Thank you for your help. Just find out my car is "In transit"-- wish it arrives sooner than the saleman says. BMW drivers: Does the car come with a manual which suggests the maintenance? Reading the posts regarding unusual oil change, tire rotating... makes me worried. How do i find out the correct maintenance? Thanks everyone. Meg
I was just rambling on about the add bass at lower volume, decrease at higher volume to eliminate distortion, but you already know this. I also like the sound better when the fader is in the middle too. The engineers did a great job with the center balance thing. I have my bass and treble all the way up most of the time and the volume up to right before it sounds distorted. I'm the typical power hungry guy, always trying to get louder and cleaner. I had Sound Waves take out the 6x9 subs. They added an 1100 watt amp and 2 12" subs. I like my kick drum to have alot of impact, like at a live concert, real big and kinda scary, but real clean and moving alot of air. I'm designing the system piece by piece. Next will be the front doors and the rear deck with another amp. It will be around 5 grand when I'm done. If you want to fill in the hole of the frequency response where the midbass is lacking, you can add 1 or 2 dedicated midbass drivers and a small amp crossed over to not interfere with your subs for around $250. This would give the HK more balance, low mid punch, and overall warmth, instead of just highs and lows )
FWIW, I agree with Denright re: the v_tech trolling incident. I've been on a number of unmoderated boards and I understand how irritating someone like that can be. However, I have to say I'm not comfortable with the concept of censoring dissenting voices. Denright expressed my feeling much better than I could hope to so I'll leave it at that.
Gurumike, sorry to add to your workload. I have a 325i Steel Blue/Grey, PP, CWP, Xenons, CD going to Tate BMW in Annapolis, MD. Any status info would be appreciated. Tx in advance.
Platypus - Thanks for your response to my post regarding security for your car while in Europe. I will keep your precautions in mind. Thedeepdarkblu-You indicated that you ordered SP with black leather and MR (instead of PP). Was this because you did not like the wood trim that comes with PP? BTW, I love your "handle" for this board. General Opinions on wood trim please. I'm hesitant to order PP with black leather because of how I believe the wood trim that comes with PP might look, but I have not seen this in person yet (as I'm in the Middle East for awhile). What are the opinions of others on this board as to how the wood trim looks with black interior?? Another question - Does anyone know at what point in time you can place an order for the next model year's production for 3 series?? Thanks, Ken
I personally have no problem with dissenting voices; in fact, I am often said dissenting voice or amongst them. Having said that, one of the things I appreciate about this board is the tone of civility that has been maintained, regardless of a persons' point of view. If I wanted to argue with a bunch of blithering idiots, I would spend my time on the BMW discussions on USENET.
As for our troll, it was clear that he was not here to discuss, if that were the case, he would have spent most of his time over on the IS300 boards. According to his profile, the ONLY place he was posting was the 3-Series sedan board. In my E-Mail to our host (Aaron, aka. L8_Apex) I simply alerted him to the fact that we had somebody who was being a little abusive and may be approaching the limits of the "Terms of Use". I then asked him if there was any way to warn v_tech to tread a little more lightly. Aaron responded to me that with the extreme amount of traffic on our board, that he was guilty of "scanning", but that he would look into the situation. He apparently felt that our troll crossed the line and took appropriate action. For that, I applaud Aaron.
This car is a magnet for anyone that wants to run with the boys. Celicas, Mustangs, you name all try to keep up with me. I am all for equality and I don't discriminate on type of car. It feels good outrunning a - what is it - 3.6 ltr Mustang trying VERY hard. Yep, that's right, buddy - you got yourself beat by a wimpy 2.5 ltr whose driver was traveling in style and comfort and had an impossible-to-hide smile on his face. Oh, minor detail - I can't exceed 4,500 rpms where most of my power is but that was OK, as you could see for yourself. Gotta love this car!!! I've never felt more comfortable in mixed traffic.
198 messages yesterday?!?!? That's crazy. What, the whole world wants BMWs now? I'm afraid soon enough there won't any Mustangs left to entertain me during my morning commute )
I hope you all read my post about diversity a couple of days ago. We do need different opinions or otherwise we'd all end up driving the same color 330i SP, same options and all - what a boring world that would be everyone driving the same car. Mine and Shipo's point is about the tone of voice and intelligent discussions, as opposed to a board which encourages dick-slamming contests. I have often expressed opinions about other cars and I have shared with you that the A4 is better in some respects, and that my VR6 is faster and all. That has never ticked off anyone of you because these comparisons have all been civil and presented in a tone that we can all learn from. This board is more mature, friendly, and fun than your average board - wouldn't be great if we keep it that way?? There are enough BMW boards for kids out there already. It's fine with me if v_tech wants to stay here but just don't hurt my ears and try to speak in an intelligible voice. It's OK to ask questions if you are not sure; but you won't learn anything if you keep aggressing posters and ultimately, you would turn into a grumpy, masochist outcast. Let's all get along and have respect for each other.
Geez -- you take a half-day off and there are 60 messages to read!
Glad our Altezza-fan/troll is unofficially gone from the board. I, too, value a "devil's advocate" position -- typically lends more credibility to the prevailing issue. However, I also agree that Mr. v_tech's blatantly negative, moronic style took more away than added. He will certainly not be missed...
As for the oi/filter change issue, I admit, I've always been overly anal regarding this (once at 500, then 1,500, then every 3,000 EXACTLY), but being an engineer, I'm overly anal by nature. Yes, it does not feel particularly comfortable seeing 4,800 mi on the odo and seeing 9,725 until next service, but I trust the engineers (and even the marketers) at BMW -- they're not gonna risk a potential 2nd time buyer for a few measly extra $40 oil/filter changes. All the logic and arguments from above are good ones. Of course, it really comes down to what you're COMFORTABLE with. If you can't sleep at night knowing that your $35k baby's engine has 7,500 mile-old oil in her, then $40 is well-spent on peace-of-mind alone. But technologically, as long as you ensure the level is always between the low and high levels, you should sleep fine.
One question (I consider myself pretty technically adept, but certainly not omniscient): could somebody explain to me what key physical design differences between the M3/M5 engines and the "lower" engines would mandate an oil/filter change directly after break-in (1,200 mi)? This muddies the "no oil changes needed" argument a bit, and I want to find out more...
gurumike--thanks for checking on the status of my 325Ci. And for the wheel input.
Sorry if I've confused anyone--I've been using two different handles on this board (akwon/thedeepdarkblu), due to the face that when I tried to log in on my home computer, I couldn't remember my password to "thedeepdarkblu" handle (my office computer automatically logs me in.
Regarding wood trim, I think it can look good w/ certain color combinations, but it looks a bit strange with the black interior. Plus, there seems to be quite a bit of lacquer on top, so it feels/looks a bit plasticky. The gearshift knob feels good, though. I went with the SP and no PP b/c I've got a black interior, but I'm not a huge fan of the gloss black trim (it reminds me of cheesy 80's black lacquer furniture). But I'll have to wait and see what the entire package looks like--I'm leaning towards getting the aftermarket aluminum trim.
Wood goes much better with beige leather(ette). It does look plasticky IMO - very polished and it has near-perfect grain pattern.
thedeepdarkblu - good to know you have two handles - we'll be able to figure out how many hours you put in at work every week ) You have an interesting perspective on the black trim. I have to admit that I thought I was going to like the aluminum trim better but now I think it looks too industrial and it is a pain in you-know-what to maintain. I am very happy with the black trim and I actually do like the gloss - it contrasts with the rest of the interior nicely.
folks, i do apologize for my immature and juvenile remarks i don't really want to be a menace really. can you all please let me stay??? dsr2d2 called me a [non-permissible content removed] bag and i've taken all these hits about my being retarded i think i deserve another shot don't you all think??? poor me.
anyway since i am too damn dumb to come up with anyting of real substance i am going to try something new. i know you will all love this especially those of you with your smug i drove a IS300 and it rides like a piece of junk DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE biased bimmer lovers. here is a take on the IS300 and 330i by peter egan of road and track.
"...we have the IS300, whcih is markedly the most sports car-like in the group. It's a taut,nimble car that feels smaller and quidcker on its feet than any of the others and revs with a silky, high-winding snarl. Heading onto the track (or winding road), you immediately notice the quick, accurate steering, a sense that the IS300 has the least rubber in its joints of any car here. it accelerates hard with a race-car-like wail (the other cars sound as iff they are inhaling at speed, most of their fury coming from induction noise, while the lexus actually has an exhaust note) IN CORNERS, THE IS300 is quite tossible and, more than the others, it seems possible to trail-brake the lexus' tail out a little to help it rotate in tight corners but never gets seriously out of shape....."
All four drivers commented that the lexus was the most fun car of the group (even the two who likedt the bmw better), with the sharpest edge, and nearly everyone picked it as first choice for an all-daydrive through the mountains.
"the "fun" factor can also be attributed to the car's ability to thread through our slalom exercise iwth sports-car-like results, with the speedometer averaging 65.6mph. AND around the 200-ft skidpad, its ability to generate 0.91g of lateral acceleration also leads the group in road-holding skills.....everyone areed that, functionally it is a excitiing car to drive with a foundation of solid thoughtful engineering undre its exuberant and spirited personality. By the numbers alone the lexus comes out on top of this sports-sedan comparison test. However, it did so not by winning the Performace or Subjective ratings but by closely trailing the BMW and the mercedes in both categories and pulling ahead with its least expensive sticker price....it's the least expensive car in this group by an eyebrow-raising margin.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM NOT DISILLUSIONED TO THE FACT THAT THE BMW 330i is a better car but with that price tag of 40K (please don't tell me that after tax and licensing it won't top 40 something fully loaded) this car is OVERRATED.
To the eloquent guy with the cavalier attitude. suggesting that lexus is just a toyota with gold trim is old material. i am unimpressed by your unitelligent and shallow remark. it is almost as good as the wannabe imitator lines i have been hearing. at least toyota/lexus cars don't look like sawed off versions of one another. the 330i seems to morphing itself into a smaller version of the 5 series. OF COURSE the 98 325 coupe i think looks just like a 98 M3 from a cursory glance. i guess that is what the buyer wants me to see anyway. a shell with no guts. just like the current and past 325 owners. there are many of them who don't want to shell out the bucks but who cares everyone thinks you have the 328 or 330i anyway but you don't do you???
and to the person who paid 38 for the 325xi. gurumike said actually the 330i comes sticker 36K. boy we all better find that dealership. where's that in fiji gurumike??? don't tell the person that dished out 38K for that 325xi. oh wait that all wheel drive is worth that 38K right?? funny my friend was going to get a more loaded 330xi but guess what?? he can't stomach the over 40 something price tag. so he has a 330i on order for a mere 40K after tax and licensing. funny the road and track guys got their 330i pretty loaded from a NJ dealer i think for 39,804 BEFORE TAX AND LICENSING. you all do the math i am too dumb but i think that tops 40K. fools, they should have come here first then they could have discovered that there is one available on this planet for 36K.
You're progressing a bit in terms of facts and well-supported opinions (although most of them are Road and Track's facts and opinions). I enjoy an analytical and thought-provoking comparison between two competing models, pros/cons, etc., as well as the next guy/gal. We can all agree that that is good and adds value. But you still don't get it. Your defensive and personal-attacking style takes more away than it adds, and it merely provokes others to lower themselves to do the same.
Sure, I've opened myself to more personal attacks by calling you out, and from you, I have come to expect it. But you need to realize that you are doing yourself and/or your cause MUCH more harm than good. I certainly don't see any 3-series owners/owners-to-be going over to the IS300 board and launching random hand grenades...there's simply nothing to be gained by doing so.
Comments
As far as pricing, my 325i SP is less than 31.5K very nicely equipped with everything that I wanted. The 330i would be even nicer but you know what, the 328 was "only" 190 hp and it never felt underpowered. With the 325i SP manual, I feel like I can take just about anyone out for a little fun ride and come out ahead. Ultimately, there is a lot more to a car than straight-line acceleration. I still would not pay 4-5 grand premium for an otherwise identical 3-series but it all comes down to personal choice and how you want spend your money. If I were after the ponies alone, I would've bought an American muscle car. I couldn't be happier with the choice I made - I love my 325i. Besides, it's more fun driving a car 10 out of 10 at its limits
I have left my salesman a message. I will be speaking to him shortly. I am quite certain he will fix this for me and apologize. I actually suspect this was my fault, because I based my offer on old options info from www.cars.com. They have no updated their info, but hadn't when I ordered. In any event, I'm sure this will be rectified directly.
This little bonus will bring my purchase price down to $38,475 (including mats and $200 advertising fee) -- a little more than $3,000 over what I was originally considering paying for a loaded 325xi. I am THRILLED.
I agree that if you are getting the AWD, the 330 is much better. The added 250 lbs. from the AWD will be more than offset by the added power of the 330 and I think in this case it's well worth the extra money. To be completely honest, I would have gladly taken another 20 horses on the 325i but 40 at 4-5 grand was not worth it in my case. The money I saved is happily invested and working hard towards my Porsche 911 Carrera.
unboriguy - there are two 330xi cars going to Ohio dealers in black/sand with xenons and SP but, the second I select CWP, it comes back with zero matches. Did you order it in OH and if so, can you verify CWP?? BTW - They're both in 111. Tell me the dealer name/city and confirm Jet Black w/ sand leather and I'll tell you what's what.
tcn2k - they'll have your car by end of next week (or that week-end, perhaps)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Remember 330xi, NJ, Steel Blue, Steptronic, Black Leatherette, delayed, miserable, confused, desperate, pain in the neck, etc., etc.???
THANKS!!!
alp - good man. We won't learn much fighting stupidity. Just goes to show that kids should not be left unattended. And, honestly, the more I hear about how much BMWs are not a good deal or whatever, the more convinced I am that I made the right choice. Get this: I still have my old Jetta VR6; it's still quicker than my BMW and you know what: I have not even thought about driving it. Going for all-out acceleration only is like a teenager focusing on the extra-large fake boobs instead of going for the complete package; that comes with a little more maturity and oh, yes, it's much better.
I did find one car like that. It's going to Mt. Kisco, NY. Is this yours??? It's the only one in production right now.
OR - If its going to Open Road in Edison, then it's in 111 so it's still a few weeks from production.
Again, sorry. You were never a low priority. It does take time to narrow it down to each persons car with the info I get.
In future people (if there's anyone I've not yet told!!) I need car type color (in and out) a few key options and the name of your dealer or the city they're in. Thanks!
have you thought about charging for your "car locator" service?!! lol
I have an interesting question for you:
My dealer told me that I have virtually the last 2001 "xi" being built in Germany; do you think that is correct? Sounded like a very obvious sales gimmick, but given the demand and supply ratio and the imminent 2002 MY around the corner, I thought it could be possible.
What do you think?
Also, my partner has a 2001 325xi/silver/gray/step/cwp/pp/xenons/cd coming in to marlton NJ also.......any idea about his status? take your time! no rush!
veekay1
Any clue what the heck is going on??? It was ordered on 3/28 with minor changes on 4/7 and still 111 - feels like they have somehing against me or may be my dealer screwed up somewhere.
I guess there's nothing I can do other than getting more and more frustrated. I don't why I can't get a real scoop from BMWNA either.
Thanks again,
-Z
Thanks for your help.
veekay1 - last xi being built???!! Well, for the 2001 MY and relative to when the first ones were built, it is more towards the end. But there'll likely be a few thousand more after yours!! And when they come back from summer vaction and the same car is called a 2002 MY, they keep on building 'em !!
unboringuy - like for zmantop, the next month will come and go before you know it, and then you'll be making plans to go pick it up !!
But don't hate your sales person. Most of them (sadly even at BMW!) aren't usually the sharpest and he/she was probably just trying to add some excitement to this, what is, a special event for you. The intentions were good.
Best Regards,
Shipo
In summary, it can seem alarmingly long to take a brand new engine to 14,000+ miles with some good strong-armed driving with-out ever even adding oil!! But think about it - every heard of progress? Ideally the engine, like those new 5 speed automatics, will soon become a sealed item which no longer needs such maintainence.
I will re-post what I said over there a few days ago, and then add another thought.
Previous post:
Consider the following points:
- Modern LEV (3-Series) and ULEV engines running with modern fuel produce a mere fraction of the combustion gunk (a very technical term ;-) that is) generated by an engine from just 5 years ago, the result, extended oil change intervals.
- Synthetic oil has a far superior ability to hold said gunk in suspension when compared to conventional oil, the result, extended oil change intervals.
- BMW has seen fit to almost double the amount of oil in the reservoir when compared to other engines of similar displacement, more oil means more ability to suspend particulate matter and protect the engine, the result, extended oil change intervals.
All of which makes frequent oil changes a waste of money and harmful to the environment.
Additional comment:
The above re-post does not address that "First" oil change at about 1000 miles. That used to be important because of the large manufacturing tolerances used by lesser marques and in days gone by. Said large tolerances required a "Break In" period so that little extra bits of metal and such got ground off and dumped into the oil pan. It is my understanding that BMW (and a few others) now manufacture engines with such small tolerances that any bits of metal set free by the break in process (if any at all) are easily dealt with by the oils' ability to hold them in suspension and of course the filter.
I normally turn my cars in every 3 to 4 years. I am toying with keeping my 328i well into the 100,000 mile range just to see if the BMW engineers know what they are talking about. Obviously, I am betting that they do.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
1) Style 71 is 8x18 front 225/40ZR18 and rear 8.5x18 255/35ZR18. Can I just get the 225s for front and rear (I want to be able to rotate the tires so they last longer)
2) Can I swap them out with the original 325Ci SP wheels (and pay the difference if there is one)? Perhaps this is an individual dealer issue.
3) If the #2 is possible, is this something that can be done when the car is produced in Germany or will it have to be done at my dealer?
To everyone (but trolls)--I apologize for the negativity of my posts in response to v_tech. It just sets me off when I see someone just trying to ruin a good thing. Glad it's over (fingers crossed).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Ya done me proud...
I have been a veteran of a few message board wars. While they are usually stupid and pointless, I would like to just take a moment to admonish my fellow bimmer lovers to consider the value of the market of ideas.
When someone like v-tech comes into the midst of a discussion like this, it is easy to become adversarial and to essentially shout the person down. Indeed, sometimes people take the extra step of simply trying to have the person censored and removed.
While in some circumstances a message board poster may be so immature and so disruptive that this may be an appropriate remedy, I honestly do not believe this to be the case with our resident naysayer. Although he is probably not terribly bright, and although he disagrees with most of us (including me) concerning the merits of the 3 series, I value dissenting voices in my life.
Dissent forces many to consider the veracity of assumptions that would not otherwise be questioned. This dialectic -- thesis/antithesis/synthesis -- is incredibly valuable in terms of arriving at new insights and developing a sophisticated understanding of any topic.
Before we try to simply silence those that disagree with us, perhaps it would be to all of our benefit if we tried to reason and discuss rather than insult and berate.
All that said, I think a Lexus is nothing but a Toyota with gold trim and I laugh at anyone who would waste his money in such a manner.
by the way is xexnon light and multi steering wheel now standard in 325i?
Can you find out the exact day the car is built? I want to check "horoscope" of mine
Just find out my car is "In transit"-- wish it arrives sooner than the saleman says.
BMW drivers: Does the car come with a manual which suggests the maintenance? Reading the posts regarding unusual oil change, tire rotating... makes me worried. How do i find out the correct maintenance? Thanks everyone.
Meg
have to say I'm not comfortable with the concept of censoring dissenting voices. Denright expressed my feeling much better than I could hope to so I'll leave it at that.
Gurumike, sorry to add to your workload. I have a 325i Steel Blue/Grey, PP, CWP, Xenons, CD going to Tate BMW in Annapolis, MD. Any status info would be appreciated. Tx in advance.
Thedeepdarkblu-You indicated that you ordered SP with black leather and MR (instead of PP). Was this because you did not like the wood trim that comes with PP? BTW, I love your "handle" for this board.
General Opinions on wood trim please. I'm hesitant to order PP with black leather because of how I believe the wood trim that comes with PP might look, but I have not seen this in person yet (as I'm in the Middle East for awhile). What are the opinions of others on this board as to how the wood trim looks with black interior??
Another question - Does anyone know at what point in time you can place an order for the next model year's production for 3 series??
Thanks, Ken
As for our troll, it was clear that he was not here to discuss, if that were the case, he would have spent most of his time over on the IS300 boards. According to his profile, the ONLY place he was posting was the 3-Series sedan board. In my E-Mail to our host (Aaron, aka. L8_Apex) I simply alerted him to the fact that we had somebody who was being a little abusive and may be approaching the limits of the "Terms of Use". I then asked him if there was any way to warn v_tech to tread a little more lightly. Aaron responded to me that with the extreme amount of traffic on our board, that he was guilty of "scanning", but that he would look into the situation. He apparently felt that our troll crossed the line and took appropriate action. For that, I applaud Aaron.
Best Regards,
Shipo
198 messages yesterday?!?!? That's crazy. What, the whole world wants BMWs now? I'm afraid soon enough there won't any Mustangs left to entertain me during my morning commute
-Z
I hope you all read my post about diversity a couple of days ago. We do need different opinions or otherwise we'd all end up driving the same color 330i SP, same options and all - what a boring world that would be everyone driving the same car. Mine and Shipo's point is about the tone of voice and intelligent discussions, as opposed to a board which encourages dick-slamming contests. I have often expressed opinions about other cars and I have shared with you that the A4 is better in some respects, and that my VR6 is faster and all. That has never ticked off anyone of you because these comparisons have all been civil and presented in a tone that we can all learn from. This board is more mature, friendly, and fun than your average board - wouldn't be great if we keep it that way?? There are enough BMW boards for kids out there already. It's fine with me if v_tech wants to stay here but just don't hurt my ears and try to speak in an intelligible voice. It's OK to ask questions if you are not sure; but you won't learn anything if you keep aggressing posters and ultimately, you would turn into a grumpy, masochist outcast. Let's all get along and have respect for each other.
Glad our Altezza-fan/troll is unofficially gone from the board. I, too, value a "devil's advocate" position -- typically lends more credibility to the prevailing issue. However, I also agree that Mr. v_tech's blatantly negative, moronic style took more away than added. He will certainly not be missed...
As for the oi/filter change issue, I admit, I've always been overly anal regarding this (once at 500, then 1,500, then every 3,000 EXACTLY), but being an engineer, I'm overly anal by nature. Yes, it does not feel particularly comfortable seeing 4,800 mi on the odo and seeing 9,725 until next service, but I trust the engineers (and even the marketers) at BMW -- they're not gonna risk a potential 2nd time buyer for a few measly extra $40 oil/filter changes. All the logic and arguments from above are good ones. Of course, it really comes down to what you're COMFORTABLE with. If you can't sleep at night knowing that your $35k baby's engine has 7,500 mile-old oil in her, then $40 is well-spent on peace-of-mind alone. But technologically, as long as you ensure the level is always between the low and high levels, you should sleep fine.
One question (I consider myself pretty technically adept, but certainly not omniscient): could somebody explain to me what key physical design differences between the M3/M5 engines and the "lower" engines would mandate an oil/filter change directly after break-in (1,200 mi)? This muddies the "no oil changes needed" argument a bit, and I want to find out more...
Sorry if I've confused anyone--I've been using two different handles on this board (akwon/thedeepdarkblu), due to the face that when I tried to log in on my home computer, I couldn't remember my password to "thedeepdarkblu" handle (my office computer automatically logs me in.
Regarding wood trim, I think it can look good w/ certain color combinations, but it looks a bit strange with the black interior. Plus, there seems to be quite a bit of lacquer on top, so it feels/looks a bit plasticky. The gearshift knob feels good, though. I went with the SP and no PP b/c I've got a black interior, but I'm not a huge fan of the gloss black trim (it reminds me of cheesy 80's black lacquer furniture). But I'll have to wait and see what the entire package looks like--I'm leaning towards getting the aftermarket aluminum trim.
thedeepdarkblu - good to know you have two handles - we'll be able to figure out how many hours you put in at work every week
i do apologize for my immature and juvenile remarks i don't really want to be a menace really. can you all please let me stay??? dsr2d2 called me a [non-permissible content removed] bag and i've taken all these hits about my being retarded i think i deserve another shot don't you all think??? poor me.
anyway since i am too damn dumb to come up with anyting of real substance i am going to try something new. i know you will all love this especially those of you with your smug i drove a IS300 and it rides like a piece of junk DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE biased bimmer lovers. here is a take on the IS300 and 330i by peter egan of road and track.
"...we have the IS300, whcih is markedly the most sports car-like in the group. It's a taut,nimble car that feels smaller and quidcker on its feet than any of the others and revs with a silky, high-winding snarl. Heading onto the track (or winding road), you immediately notice the quick, accurate steering, a sense that the IS300 has the least rubber in its joints of any car here. it accelerates hard with a race-car-like wail (the other cars sound as iff they are inhaling at speed, most of their fury coming from induction noise, while the lexus actually has an exhaust note) IN CORNERS, THE IS300 is quite tossible and, more than the others, it seems possible to trail-brake the lexus' tail out a little to help it rotate in tight corners but never gets seriously out of shape....."
All four drivers commented that the lexus was the most fun car of the group (even the two who likedt the bmw better), with the sharpest edge, and nearly everyone picked it as first choice for an all-daydrive through the mountains.
"the "fun" factor can also be attributed to the car's ability to thread through our slalom exercise iwth sports-car-like results, with the speedometer averaging 65.6mph. AND around the 200-ft skidpad, its ability to generate 0.91g of lateral acceleration also leads the group in road-holding skills.....everyone areed that, functionally it is a excitiing car to drive with a foundation of solid thoughtful engineering undre its exuberant and spirited personality. By the numbers alone the lexus comes out on top of this sports-sedan comparison test. However, it did so not by winning the Performace or Subjective ratings but by closely trailing the BMW and the mercedes in both categories and pulling ahead with its least expensive sticker price....it's the least expensive car in this group by an eyebrow-raising margin.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM NOT DISILLUSIONED TO THE FACT THAT THE BMW 330i is a better car but with that price tag of 40K (please don't tell me that after tax and licensing it won't top 40 something fully loaded) this car is OVERRATED.
To the eloquent guy with the cavalier attitude. suggesting that lexus is just a toyota with gold trim is old material. i am unimpressed by your unitelligent and shallow remark. it is almost as good as the wannabe imitator lines i have been hearing. at least toyota/lexus cars don't look like sawed off versions of one another. the 330i seems to morphing itself into a smaller version of the 5 series. OF COURSE the 98 325 coupe i think looks just like a 98 M3 from a cursory glance. i guess that is what the buyer wants me to see anyway. a shell with no guts. just like the current and past 325 owners. there are many of them who don't want to shell out the bucks but who cares everyone thinks you have the 328 or 330i anyway but you don't do you???
and to the person who paid 38 for the 325xi. gurumike said actually the 330i comes sticker 36K. boy we all better find that dealership. where's that in fiji gurumike??? don't tell the person that dished out 38K for that 325xi. oh wait that all wheel drive is worth that 38K right?? funny my friend was going to get a more loaded 330xi but guess what?? he can't stomach the over 40 something price tag. so he has a 330i on order for a mere 40K after tax and licensing. funny the road and track guys got their 330i pretty loaded from a NJ dealer i think for 39,804 BEFORE TAX AND LICENSING. you all do the math i am too dumb but i think that tops 40K. fools, they should have come here first then they could have discovered that there is one available on this planet for 36K.
vvti
Sure, I've opened myself to more personal attacks by calling you out, and from you, I have come to expect it. But you need to realize that you are doing yourself and/or your cause MUCH more harm than good. I certainly don't see any 3-series owners/owners-to-be going over to the IS300 board and launching random hand grenades...there's simply nothing to be gained by doing so.