BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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  • mrpeltynmrpeltyn Member Posts: 21
    Greetings...By any chance would anyone know why my 325i's window tint is being scratched on the passenger side front & rear windows, but the driver's side windows are okay? I assume the scratching means that replacing the tint will cause the same problem again? I lovvvvve my car, just really dislike little imperfections of any kind...thanks!
  • carfan10carfan10 Member Posts: 3
    I'm a BMW fan no doubt, but just to add another perspective, Road and Track recently published a comparison between the 330i, Lexus IS300, MB C320 and Volvo S60 T5. All cars were automatics, but they picked the IS300 first over the 330i. They loved the handling, hated the interior...interesting nonetheless.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/RoadAndTrack/article_new/features/0401_all_things_all_enthusiasts_p1.html
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    gurumike:
    Hi! It was me who asked you to kindly recheck my car status!
    Was away for 4 days; we crossed the 3000 mark in posts!
    I called BMWNA and was told "week 23" : but it looks like I am status 150 or so now; could you please use your resources to check what the real deal is?
    Thanks in advance
    veekay1(325xi/sapphire metallic/step/PP/cwp)
  • burrsrburrsr Member Posts: 255
    In the electronic article you linked, nowhere could I find the point tallies and how each attribute was ranked. In the print copy (I keep all 3-series related articles!), there is an entire page with that table. In it, they have a "price-dependent" winner and a "price-independent" winner. The 330i easily won the price-independent contest. When they factored in price (since the as-tested price of the Altezza was 5-6 G's less), the Altezza won, but BY A THIN MARGIN.

    What this says to me: the 330i is CLEARLY the better car, but you'll pay more for it. I'm glad I made the choice to pay more for a better car.

    Also, I noticed that the article gave some HINT as to the 330i's engine redline: "...using every available engine rev and shifting at 6400 rpm in each gear..." GURU: any verification on this and/or the 325i's (if there's a difference)?
  • bgritzbgritz Member Posts: 139
    The C&D Sport Sedan Comparison Test was in the Jan. '01 issue.

    they ran: (in their order of worst to best)
    6th place - Saab 9-3 SE
    5th place - Mercedes Benz C240
    4th place - Volovo S60 T5
    3rd place - Lexus IS300
    2nd place - Audi A4 2.8 Quatro
    1st place - BMW 325i
  • titaniumsil325titaniumsil325 Member Posts: 20
    I finally picked up my 325 & I love it. WIsh I could drive it more. Here's my deal - $1000 over invoice & mats (rubber & carpet) included!!! I was wondering what you all thought about the wheel locks - necessary?? Plese inform.
  • reubencahnreubencahn Member Posts: 102
    It's www.zainobros.com.
  • thedeepdarkbluthedeepdarkblu Member Posts: 106
    You must be psyched! Happy for you (and jealous, of course, as I'm still waiting for mine).

    I would not get the wheel locks, if you have no problem paying $1K+ to replace them when your wheels get ripped off. Small price to pay for peace of mind.
  • burrsrburrsr Member Posts: 255
    It's interesting to see the variation in press perspectives. For example, C&D's comparo picked (1st place) what was basically a stripper (due to comparison price ceilings, but optioned toward sport) 325i head and shoulders above the Altezza (3rd place). Then, R&T picked the Altezza (PRICE DEPENDENT, not price-independent, as mentioned above) over a relatively well-optioned 330i (optioned more toward sport, except the STEP). Then, traditionally value-conscious Consumer Reports picked another well-optioned 330i (optioned more toward luxury) as its first-place finisher.

    The R&T perspective seems like the "odd man out" in terms of consistency. But as I mentioned, they, too picked the 330i as the price-independent winner.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I guess my and Mrs.' car names have been pretty neutral - Blue Enigma, Happy, Praton (Spring). I'm not sure if I'd consider Shtroumpf Muscle THAT masculine - I mean, we are talking about a Smurf here; Muscle is pronounced as Muuskl-eeh so it is cuter and especially to avoid any comparison to American Muscle cars, which do not have the exotic sensuality of a BMW, just as you mentioned. I don't know - to me, Shtroumpf Muuskl-eeh sounds more like a desert of some sort than a seriously aggressive masculine name. I picture a Smurf playing around, running on the back roads freely, jumping, dashing, stopping fast and having this sense of freedom and happiness. It works for me - as you said, to each its own. BTW, my wife really liked Claudia, Gretl, Lena, Baby Squid - I guess she liked them all. It's all about connecting.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    From this R/T article: 'The IS300 placed first not by winning the Performance or the Subjective ratings, but by closely trailing the BMW and the Mercedes in both categories and pulling ahead with its least expensive sticker price." More: they all hated the styling of the Altezza. Unlike R/T, C&D's lane change maneuver test favored the BMW. Same with the skidpad numbers. I guess some of the differences may be explained by the fact that C&D tested manuals and R/T tested autos. No self-respecting publication would ever test compact Sports sedans with auto instead of manual transmission anyhow. As far as car magazines go, the writing in Automobile is the best; C&D is the most popular and a good magazine at that; european car is very interesting to follow if that's what you are primarily interested in: european cars. Any other publications I've seen are not worth my $10/year. Bottom line is, I personally couldn't care less what the magazines like - the 3-series is the best car for me by a long shot.
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    Just got off the phone to have a 325i in production (late July), PP, SP (decided to hell with it if I'm going to have to wait), CD, HIDs, leather...MSRP is at 34360 (inc dest.), willing to go down to 33000 (2185 off invoice)...Anyone??? Do wheel locks, flaps, and mats come standard???
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Congrats on getting it, very impressive!! Mats are $85, locks are $25, flaps - no idea, don't like them (unless they have a naked woman that says BACK OFF!!! :o)).
  • carfan10carfan10 Member Posts: 3
    The variance in reviews in auto publications also points to the sentiment that there are more good sport-sedan choices today than ever. A competitive marketplace makes all products better and all manufacturers less complacent (remember the US version 3-series models in the 80s?). The 330i (in any form) is my personal favorite, but I certainly wouldn't knock a person for buying an IS300, T5, S4...all worthy choices.

    R/T scored the IS 580.9 points and the 330i 576.4 points; the others trailed by a larger margin. The difference as pointed above was mainly due to price, which I think is totally appropriate (on the other hand, I'd certainly be the first in line if BMW ever offered a "price-independent" car). Also, R/T's younger editors loved the IS design, while the older ones were drawn more to the BMW.

    I plan to buy (in the $30-40K range) later this year or early next year. Still considering all options, but currently leaning towards the 330i. These boards (when objective) have been most helpful.
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    Glad you made it back in this morning, man. Yeah, it sounds like a decent deal...I'll need to send him a $500 deposit to get it started (which he said will not be deposited until the car arrives), in which case he'll give the production status ID...the dealership is about 70 miles from here...never did my negiations over the phone before...guess I'm pretty stoked right now....BTW, steel-gray metallic and black interior...should I not have him fax over the quote???
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Make sure to get the production number and/or VIN of the car and also have the dealer fill out a Purchase Order form with all the details you agreed on. You have to see the exact discount he is giving you off MSRP so there are no two words about it. Good luck!
  • mfeldmanmfeldman Member Posts: 140
    The e46 board is replete with posts about dying fans. THey make it sound like an epidemic. Does anyone know the true extent of the problem or how to detect it before it's too late?
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    Just read the board for the first time since yesterday evening to see that wonderful shot. Why was I standing like that ?!

    Veekay - Yours is the one going to open road, right? Still in "111", so it's still more than a few weeks away from production. Let's check it again next week to see if it's "112".
    -Michael.
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    Thanks for the info....I assume things will not start rolling until he gets the deposit??? I should have him send me back the copy of the purchase order with the agreed on discount off MSRP, then??? This site has been alot of help...oops, 'bout to go to lunch...
  • khoonkhoon Member Posts: 85
    Where did u get that price. I'm in N. Jersey, and most dealers I've talked to cop an attitude and think taking $1000 off MSRP is a big favor they're doing me!

    I'd appreciate your sharing with us how you got the dealer to accept $1K over invoice.

    Thanks in advance.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    $1000 over invoice is about $400 or $500 dollars better than I've heard of anyone else doing. I would be suspicious of that claim. What is the dealer counting as "invoice"? It does not include MACO or dealer prep. There's a training fee that is sometimes separately listed but really is part of invoice -- it's about $160 and if shown separately, then the other invoice total should be $160 less than shown at Edmunds or KBB. Also, any dealer add-ons shouldn't be included in invoice, IMO. Oh, and still ANOTHER way they can get to you is if you are trading in a car. Finally they can get to you on the TTL, which can include a "documentation" fee which they may inflate.

    Anyone: in the TTL, only the tax and the license is set by the state. What is a reasonable dealer charge for "title"?
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    Gurumike:
    Thanks for checking, but mine is the one going to DeSimone BMW in Marlton, NJ, not to open Road.
    Again, 325xi/blk sapphire metallic/gray /PP/CWP/Xenons/Step.
    Thanks for your help!
    Veekay1
  • denrightdenright Member Posts: 285
    Your deal -- $2100 over invoice -- doesn't sound that great to me. Lots and lots of folks in here have been able to get specially ordered cars for hundreds less. I personally ordered my 330xi on April 28, and I am paying $1500 over invoice with mats included.

    My suggestion to all car buyers is to NEVER negotiate down from MSRP, ALWAYS negotiate UP from invoice.

    I understand that the deal you can get depends on where you are geographically in the US. The DC area (where I live) has lots of BMW dealerships, so the competition is a bit tougher. Your area may have fewer dealerships, so that may be a good price for your locale.

    ALWAYS call around to a number of dealerships before signing anything.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    You can give him a deposit over the phone - I have always put it on a credit card anyhow. This way they can move on things faster. If I were you, though, I'd probably take a drive over to this dealership (can't be much more than an hour away) and see for myself what kind of a place it is. You can tell a lot about a dealership by visiting it. But if you don't want to drive there, ask the salesperson to fax the purchase order over to you and ONLY after you get it and you verify everything (prod #, VIN#, discount, document processing fee, any other hidden fees), you should call them back and give them a deposit on the car. Pay special attention to the final (drive-off) number on the bottom of the form and make sure their calculations are correct and fair.
  • denrightdenright Member Posts: 285
    Notice that one element of testers' disappointment in the 330i in the R&T article stemmed from the lighter stearing. I would assume that they drove an early 2001 model, before the new (old) heavier steering was restored.

    The reality is that the only car on the road competitive with the 330 in terms of price and performance is the Audi S4. Of course, the 330 is a much smoother, more luxurious car than the S4.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    From what I understood, jason got $2,185 off MSRP. The spread on my car at 33K was about $3,300. I have not added up his numbers but I was assuming that since his car is a bit more expensive, he'd be paying about $1,500-1,600 over invoice (ballpark spread of about $3,700-$3,800). Did I miscalculate something?

    OK, I read his msg again - he is referring to "willing to go down to 33000 (2185 off invoice)..." I think you are right that this is $2,185 OVER invoice. I saw the "2185 off" and I assumed he was talking about 2185 off MSRP...I think you may be right about the numbers and he should be able to do a little better than that.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    "the 330 is a much smoother, more luxurious car than the S4" Completely disagree; sat in both (loaded) and the S4 is in a league of its own. Not sure about the smoothness but the S4 is not the driver's car the 3-series is, that's for sure.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    ... and I seriously doubt that. Even the mighty platypus got ONLY $1,100 over invoice and he worked his you-know-what off to get that.

    Title is typically about $50. I got free document processing from my dealer and I had to pay $125 for all documents (registration is about 25, inspection 35, there was some other nominal fee and the rest is for the title).
  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    I read the 2001 CR issue and it indicated a very good/better than average (second from the best in the scale) on depreciation.

    Guru: it is a known fact that the E46 M3 has a certain draw that has been known to attract enthusiasts. This is more than likely the reason for your tilted stance in the photo. It is a force unexplained by modern sciences.

    drcr
  • denrightdenright Member Posts: 285
    If you look at Jason's post, he indicates that $33,000 would be "$2185 off invoice." That's what I was basing that statement on.
  • denrightdenright Member Posts: 285
    I have done some research, and from what I have found, CarMax will pretty much always give you a better deal on your trade-in than your dealer. If you have a CarMax near your home, check them out and get an offer from them. See if your dealer will match it
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    Gurumike:
    Thanks for checking, but mine is the one going to DeSimone BMW in Marlton, NJ, not to open Road.
    Again, 325xi/blk sapphire metallic/gray /PP/CWP/Xenons/Step.
    Thanks for your help!
    Veekay1
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    Okay, just saw the car. It is now in "112" status so it should start production in the next week. Your probably around 6-7 weeks away from seeing it. Let's check this time next week to see if it's 150/151/152 status.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I was ALWAYS able to get a status from my dealer AND BMWNA. Try them if Guru is not around. In addition, if it is really important for you to find out the status of your car, it would be good to do it independently through different sources. You'd be amazed but they all seem to be using different tracking systems. Where's FedEx when you need them?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    No-one seems to know the answer to this one. Can you help?
  • denrightdenright Member Posts: 285
    I hate to bug you, especially since my car isn't even beyond the "on order" status on the bmwusa.com owner's circle order tracking. However, could you please take a look and see what there is to see on my 330xi?

    It is a week 25 steel gray metallic 330xi, PP, CWP, in dash, manual tranny, bound for VOB BMW in Rockville, MD.

    Thanks!
  • jasonkureejiijasonkureejii Member Posts: 210
    The dealer kind of got aggravated when I told him let's start from invoice. he was willing to come off MSRP at least $1200, but looked unwilling to go much further....thus the $1360 off MSRP. Not sure he'll agree to go down further now...some people have told me that the Dallas/Fort Worth Dealerships will not budge at all...thus, the reason to go outside the area. Maybe, I should wait and find another quote somewhere else???
  • mfeldmanmfeldman Member Posts: 140
    Maybe you guys didn't see my fan post, or maybe you don't care. But at the risk of being a pest, does anyone have reliable info on detecting potential fan problems before they happen? The weather is heating up. Thanks.
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    Brave1heart:
    Took your advice and called BMWNA; told me production started May 15th!!! two weeks ahead of schedule!! status 150! Wonder how long it takes to complete!
    Guru: Thanks for your time but looks like your info needs to be updated!! (even the GURU can falter!! LOL)
    veekay1
  • khoonkhoon Member Posts: 85
    In furtherance to the pricing discussions, my recent experience in the N. NJ area is that the dealers will negotiate around $1500-$1750 over invoice. $1K over invoice sounded too good to be true.

    Anybody care to share their recent pricing experiences in the NY/NJ area?
  • thedeepdarkbluthedeepdarkblu Member Posts: 106
    If it's in 112, how soon will it be produced? Mine is slated for June 1 production (or during that week). Could it be sooner?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    From what I remember, there is no sure way to diagnose it upfront. Just monitor your water temperature and pay special attention if the needle goes past 12 o'clock. I wish I could help you more but I wouldn't worry THAT much until it happens to me at least. Just enjoy the car.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Sorry for my premature advice - I misread your post. Well, I got my 325i for $1,300 off MSRP (or $2,000 over invoice), free mats ($85), wheels locks ($25), free paperwork processing (about $150) and 5.9% financing. The price you are paying is about $500-$600 higher than what I had understood and it does not qualify as an awesome deal. It's still an OK deal, although I'd try and press for 2K over invoice or less and hopefully some perks. In the scope of a 33K purchase even $500 or $600 isn't all that much (I know many people would disagree on this) and I guess it's all up to you. Isn't there a dealer closeby that would at least match this quote or do better than that? You said this dealership is 70 miles away, right? I got my deal in March, I think by now it should be easier to get e better deal. A lot of well-paid people are losing their jobs (in Dallas including) and the new '02 model is right around the corner. You should be able to do a little better than this but if you can't, don't let a $500 difference stop you from getting this great car. Good luck. If all else fails, call platypus' contact at Passport BMW in MD and go pick up the car in Munich - I'd do that knowing what I know now.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Mine went into production on 3/21 and was completed on 4/1 - those German teamsters seem to be very quick :o) what's interesting is that 4/1 was a Sunday, I think, so it's not out of the qn your car might be completed by the middle of next week.
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    My info comes directly off the BMW main frame in NJ. It is the most concise information available. In production since 5/15 translates to went into 112 status then. As far as "checking different sources" (sounds like shopping around!), it's not like you're get a better deal/ build date !! My info is THE most precise. "112" status basically means it's about to go into production (a few weeks later, but that's considered close enough). My locator is the only "real time" system BMW runs. We print a new availability each morning, it's information exact when produced, but that afternoon a car may show "produced, not shipped" when the mornings availability still showed "155" in production.
    In the world of locators, my word is gospel.
  • veekay1veekay1 Member Posts: 180
    gurumike:
    Looks like this time you have the "wrong" info!
    Here's what happened: My car went into status 112 on May 4th and stayed at 112 for 11 days; production began on 5/15/01 (status 150) and am told "normally" it takes 5 days to go to status 155 (ie. production complete). So, I am not sure why your system shows status 112, unless of course either BMWNA is wrong or u are looking up the wrong car!
    Bottomline is, I'll believe it all when I see my car!! For now its all wait, wait, wait.......
    veekay1
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Fair enough. I know you stand by your work, no offense was meant, at least on my part. You've been very helpful to all posters here, I was just suggesting that there are other ways to find out the status in case you are very busy at the moment. Understood, your system is real-time and probably better or at least as good as BMWNA's.

    BTW, Does your system provide real-time updates on the redline question? :o)
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    Den, still in "111", no surprise really if it's a week 25 car. I'd guess it won't go 112 for the next few weeks; let's try again in two weeks time.

    deepdark.. 112 actually means that it's about to go into production. Cars are usually 112 for about a week, then they go 150. At that point, they're about 7-10 days away from completion.
  • gurumikegurumike Member Posts: 442
    .. I'll go talk to a master tech...
    Stand-by.
  • ds2k1ds2k1 Member Posts: 101
    I seem to recall some time ago that someone posted that the cars that were developing fan problems were all built within a few weeks of each other. I might be entirely making this up and remembering a dream (or having a flashback), but I seem to recall something like that. If true, if you know when your car was built, it might help alleviate the fear of a fan problem down the road. I've put almost 3,000 miles on my 330 and have never seen the temp go above 12 o'clock, no matter how hard I push it, and it's been in the 90s here in northern California lately.
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