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All that said, I do not like Germans or Germany all that much. The food pretty much offends the senses. The people are largely cold, formal and rigid. Of course, the good points are the beer and the autobahn.
BMW built Panzer Tiger tanks in WWII. Mercedes built personnel carriers and command cars. But then again, Ford's German division supposedly built war materiel for the [non-permissible content removed] with slave labor.
And lest you think that the [non-permissible content removed] were the only serious culprits of awful wrongdoing in the 20th Century, Stalin and Mao sanctioned larger mass executions than the German holocaust -- known as the Great Purges and the Cultural Revolution.
Look at what Japan did in China, Korea and Bataan.
Look at Pol Pot in Cambodia. The list goes on. If one was willing to go back a bit further in history, one could point out slavery in the United States, and the near obliteration of native Americans -- even through the intentional distribution of small pox infected blankets to certain tribes.
The Germans certainly haven't cornered the brutality market.
The bottom line is that WWII ended 56 years ago. Most people working and actively taking part in modern German business and politics were born AFTER the war. Germany has been a near model citizen on the international stage for the past 56 years.
How long are we going to bear a grudge, and how many generations must bear the taint of their fathers' sins?
I suppose my answer is this: I am buying a BMW.
As for the food, don't get me started, Americans must eat the worst food in the world! German food is so natural and authentic and delicious...
And you better believe I'll be buying a BMW -- in Munich!!
Once again, I find myself reading these posts while nodding my head in agreement, and frequently chuckling to myself. You all have made several valid points, all of which make me feel comfortable about the purchase....
"A Sony TV?"... Close, a Panasonic.
"A Nakamichi tape deck?"... nope, a HK! (doh)
"Chinese food?"... yes, guilty as charged.
"Shopping at KMart?"... every Saturday!
"Frank shooting me the bird?" Yes, I bought a 325
Looks like I have been doing a pretty good job financing the world's economy so far. No sense in stopping now! Thanks again everyone for the creative posts.
I also live in New England but have not driven either 'xi' in snow or ice yet (got them in April). Given conditions North of Boston and after reading a Car and Driver article that said really-sticky snow tires squirmed on dry pavement and did not wear well, I plan to start out with standard-issue tires and go from there.
I'm looking for the link to that article (was about AWD vrs FWD, snow tires vrs all-season and all combinations) but it may be OBE by now.
As to the "off-topic" discussions above, my $0.02 is simply that DIVERSITY truly makes the world go 'round. Now that I'm starting to sound like a corporate yes-man, I must go...
This difference was not evident until I drove my wife's manual-shift Mazda 626 from the street into the garage last night. After two weeks in the BMW, I got into the Mazda and just about red-lined the engine as I tried to engage the clutch. Wow, the accelerator was so touchy, compared to the 325, that I felt like I could only curl my toes to keep rpm below 1500 when starting.
The advice about getting engine speed up to 1500 rpm when starting in first is really good but probably not _just_ because of low torque below 2000 but because you have to push your accelerator foot down farther than some other cars just to get 1500 rpm. This increased accelerator travel might also explain why "agressive" starts work out better than leisurely ones.
I'm planning to order a 325i with the leatherette seats. I'd like feedback from existing owners on how they find their leatherette seats. I'm particularly concerned about reports that leatherette gets very uncomfortable in summer.
Also, I'm looking into the Euro delivery option. I'd like to hear from people regarding their Euro pickup experiences.
Thanks in advance
Characterizing Germans in a monolithic fashion as cold, formal and rigid is almost certainly unfair. However, I think, as a culture, Germans are more rules-oriented, more formal, and more standoffish than Americans are.
My best friend married a German girl from Bonn. I actually spent considerable time talking about differences between American and German culture extensively with my friend's father-in-law and some of his friends. They themselves largely agreed with my assessments, except they charcterized Americans as "more friendly and back-slapping with people they don't know" and "more comfortable with chaos" than Germans. It's the backwards way of saying the same things.
Have you ever stood on a train platform in a German city when the train is even a little late? Germans stamp their feet and harumph over even a MINIMAL delay.
Or have you ever "jaywalked" in Germany, crossing the street against a red light, even when there are no cars visible for blocks? People will give you NASTY looks.
As far as the food goes, I guess that's a matter of personal aesthetics. To me, putting vinegar in seemingly EVERYTHING you cook is a bit much.
Don't get me wrong. I have had some great times in Germany, and I have several German friends. I must say, my best friend's wedding in Bonn was amazingly warm and filled with high spirits, and Oktoberfest in Munich is simply not to be missed.
Still, on the whole, I'd rather live in any number of other countries. The best elements of German culture -- beer and cars -- are readily exported.
Most modern economic historians agree that the reparations payments forced upon the Wiemar Republic by the Treaty of Versailles were responsible not only for the rise of [non-permissible content removed] Germany, but for the series of bank failures and stock market crashes that precipitated the Great Depression. I will spare the forum the intricate details of how this actually happened, as I suspect this would be so far afield from the BMW 3 Series topic as to be ridiculous.
However, this historical fact underscores a relevant point. After defeating an enemy, the wise victor will not kick the vanquished while lying prostrate. Rather, the wise victor will engage the former enemy in constructive activities to turn what was once a mortal enemy into a valuable friend.
I'd say buying a $30K++ car from the Germans qualifies as constructive activity.
I can't speak too much about food, because I'm no gourmet, but it seems to me that Germans pay much more attention to the preparation of their meals than Americans (in general) do, with fresh food being served rather than pre-packaged stuff.
PS: Someone made a comment in passing that the Germans (more correctly, the government of Germany) started WWI. Did they really? It seems to me that that might more truthfully be said about Britain/France. Whoever started it, it was a great waste -- a huge war fought about very little.
330 vs. 325 - the common consensus seems to be that the 330 is 3.8 to 5 grand more for the engine alone. That's if you compare apples to apples. So which one you buy is purely a function of how much money you want to spend and how much power you need, which will also depend on configuration (auto, AWD, etc). It is not totally surprising that BMW is pushing heavily the leases on 330 models - the 325 needs less help being pushed out the door.
Jason - (No back-lash on this one from any-one please, I am one of BMWs biggest fans) I was going to get an Impreza WRX. I'll do a two year lease on mine, at the end I hope I'll be able to consider the WRX STi, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII and an M3 with the SMG gear-box.
http://www.bimmer.org/3series/messages/archive/msgsy2001w19/12594.html
I can also provide you with an excellent sales contact if you need one.
Al330i, I have two car seats in the back of my 328i, and the only problem that I have is that the feet of my children hang down to the narrowest point between the rear seat thigh cushion and the back of the front seat. As a result, I only take short trips with the family in my car, our Caravan performs most of the long haul services.
Stalling, another factor in the "departure stalls" (not to be confused with dropping your left wing) of our manual equipped cars might be that we are driving 4 Valve engines, which historically have less Oooomf off the line when compared to a more pedestrian twin valve arrangement (the fewer/smaller the intake valve setups cause more low speed turbulence within the cylinder, yielding more power down low).
Now let's see, where is my soapbox? Ahh;
The subject of Germany, Germans and all around Bad Guys; having worked in Germany for Mercedes, and being a WWII buff (I am a former Marine, so I am more familiar with the Pacific Theater, but never the less), I have a few comments.
I agree with the various statements that the best way to change a former foe into a friend is to help and encourage mutually beneficial interaction and trade. Clearly this is not what happened after WWI in Europe. In fact, regarding Japan, it was America's termination (with justifiable cause mind you) of such interaction with Japan that was one of the final Straws on the old Camel's back that caused Pearl Harbor. I truly believe that as the economies of the World become ever more interlocked, the incidences of war will become ever rarer events. So, buy, buy, buy; assuming a relatively level playing field, the richer they get, the richer we will get. The richer we ALL are, the lesser the need to go take what somebody else has.
If I remember correctly, it was a movie that Yeeeha saw that started this tangent, so, I will attempt to quote another movie on the subject: "Peoples aren't evil, only individuals are evil". If that is not an exact quote, it at least captures the essence of what the old Jewish Holocaust survivor (I think his name either Max or Marx) said at the end of the movie "The Odessa File" (great movie and book by the way).
When I was working in Germany, my friend Klaus and I spent a lot of time mountain biking around his hometown of Neuffen. One evening, we came across a head stone up near a ridge line south east of town, Klaus told me that this was the grave of one of the last (if not the last) Germans killed at the end of WWII. Klaus was very subdued, even to the point of being depressed, he mentioned something about wondering why people could not get along and that wars were unnecessary and inhumane. Given his discomfort, I did not push the issue, but I would have loved to have talked with him at length about his perspective of the war. I write this to make a point, Klaus and his generation of Germans should absolutely NOT be punished in any way for the crimes of their ancestors. They should be applauded for building a country and economic structure that is the envy of the world, all the while living with the horrible stigma of Hitler.
Lose the soapbox.
On a lighter note, food. I have to tell you, I found a few German foods interesting, but on the whole, I did much less exercise (massive amounts of work) than normal, and still lost weight. I definitely did not tend to my vittles like I normally do. One of the stranger things I ate was Curry Wurst. What is Curry Wurst? Glad you asked, basically it is a hot-dog bun stuffed with a Bratwurst or Knockwurst type of sausage, covered in a LOT of ketchup and then sprinkled with a covering of orange curry powder. Being a fan of good Bratwurst and good Curry, I found this to be a complete insult to both. Bring on the Sushi.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have few questions. Appreciated if you could answer them.
1)Is there a certain time we need to pick up the car, or just any time at that day?
2)What is the best way(transportation) to go to the airport after drop off the car?
3)What paper work I will get from Joern or BMW after I order the car?
Thanks!
http://www.seekhistory.com/S39_7.htm
2) We took a taxi, called for by the EH Harms representative (~$30). If you're looking to economize, you could take the 10-minute walk (with your luggage) to the U-bahn, catch the U6 back to Marienplatz, then connect to the S8 out to the airport. We did this on the way in, but had too many extra bags for the way back.
3) You first get a one page letter from BMWNA confirming your reservation. It has your build configuration and tentative reservation date, with a disclaimer that the date will be confirmed by BMW AG. Then you receive your ED package which confirms your pick-up date and has all sorts of informations regarding ED. You should definitely take this with you to Europe. I also received a nice BMW key chain.
1. Z3 Roadster
2. IS300
3. Celica GT-S
4. 325Ci
I know, I know, its a motley crew of vehicles that aren't even in the same class! But you have to remember it was my wife who picked them, and styling tends to have a high priority in her list. Of course we chose the '3' in the end.
330i
TL Type S
After test driving both back-to-back, I just couldn't resist the handling and feel of the 330i. The Type S is also a great car (with tremendous power), especially for those who are more value or luxury conscious.
jnscheong
Interesting. Are you saying that fewer intake valves offer relatively better speed off the start at the expense of relatively worse speed in top end and midrange? I'd never thought about it...So a 3-series (or any other engine with a multiple valve config.) would be somewhat disadvantaged off the start but would perform much better once moving? Apples to apples, of course...
Seems like a reasonable deal?
Jasonkureejii: I also am in the Plano area if u have any questions id be glad to help, for what its worth my insurance also went down and increased coverage when i switched from infiniti to my 323i.
on the maintence note. my 1999 323i has had none of the reported problems at all, ie, steering, sunroof malfunction, ect.... over all has been the best vehicle i have owned ever and that includes a long laundry list...
Platypus : im suprised another local dealer wouldnt even match the price u got even including the extra 500.00 u will pay for shipping here, ill have to call my dealer in Arlington and see what their position is , thanks for your informative post
Regards,
DL
The way I saw it, that basically left me looking at the Jetta GLX, Audi A4 and/or S4, the BMW 3 Series, and the Nissan Maxima.
The only other car I seriously considered was the Audi A4.
1) 4 door sedan with length between 170 - 185 inches (but would stretch this to 190)
2) 6 cylinder engine
3) some "performance" -- defined more as tight steering and suspension and good braking than acceleration
4) Manual transmission
What I saw out there that I considered was:
MB C240
Audi A4
Jetta
330i
Passat
Camry
Maxima
Next year the IS300 will have a manual, so it would be in play. What sold me on the BMW is that I can do the ED since I will be in Germany anyway and will need transportation. The 330i is great but I can't justify the extra cost.
deposit appeal to a dealer? They get the
markup $ upfront plus use of the money before
the car's built and delivered.
2. Would requiring delivery by a specified date
be realistic and if so what's a reasonable
amount of time?
3. This ordered vehicle would be pick & choose
options without the BS packages. Invoice
total 31-32K.
4. Would asking for any additional spiffs be
pushing my luck.
5. I've already established a salesman contact
when when test driving. Prepared written
quote.
Acura TL-Type S
Mercedes Benz C240
Lexus IS300
Don:
I probably won't be able to pick it up til late July, but I'll keep you in mind. I'm glad to hear that you have had no major problems with the 323i....I'm ecstatic about getting the 325i and becoming more anxious everyday I read this board. Otherwise, if you live in Plano but bought the car in Arlington, have you had anything serviced by John Roberts or Classic by chance? If so, how did they treat you, man?
Seems like a reasonable deal?
All else being equal, yes, however, as we all know, all else is rarely equal. Modern engines play games with unequal length and tuned intake runners, valve timing, spark timing and many other black arts to help offset the loss of low end power.
Unequal length intake runners have two paths from the intake plenum, a short fat one for high end operation and a long thin one for low end grunt. The latter extends the distance from the intake plenum to the intake valve, the greater the length (and smaller the diameter), the better the cylinder packing and turbulence.
Tuned intake runners use the resonance from one cylinder to help pack another. If I remember this correctly, this works best on "V" type engines where the intake valve(s) on one bank close and cause a shock wave to move across the intake plenum and pack the opposite cylinder(s).
Valve timing (and ultimately lift, someday), prematurely closing the intake valve can cause slightly greater turbulence, and thus better combustion. Ultimately, by reducing lift, duration and timing, even greater amounts of turbulence can be caused, the more the better.
Spark timing, keep the engine on the ragged edge if disaster. The earlier you can fire the plug(s) before Top Dead Center (TDC), without blowing a hole in something, the better the combustion.
Black Arts, there are many combustion chamber shapes out there which have just as many effects on how well combustion occurs. Anybody remember the old Honda CVCC Stratified charge engine? I think it had 2 intake valves and essentially 2 combustion chambers, 1 rich and 1 lean. If I remember correctly, the idea was to have a small fuel rich chamber off to the side of the main combustion chamber where the spark plug was located. You ignite the rich mixture, which then spreads out into the lean area and ignites that mixture, in theory allowing an overall leaner Air to Fuel mixture.
To all,
I now have a new dilemma. I just received a letter from my leasing company informing me that my lease on my 328i will be up early next year. As fortune would have it, it seems that the street price for my used 328i will be between $3,000 and $4,000 higher than my buy out price. Under normal circumstances, I would just buy the car. However, I run a small business that takes the lease as a business expense, buying would cause our accountants great pains (and probably cost us more money in the end). As I see it, I have three viable options:
1) Buy the car, turn right around and resell it for a profit and order a new 330i for about the same monthly that I have now.
2) Release the car at a slightly lower monthly charge.
3) Turn the car in (and eliminate the associated hassle of selling it) and lease a new 330i.
What do you think?
Best Regards,
Shipo
deposit appeal to a dealer? They get the
markup $ upfront plus use of the money before
the car's built and delivered.
In my experience, salespeople couldn't care less about deposit. This doesn't affect the deal at all. Regardless of the size of the deposit, you can always cancel.
2. Would requiring delivery by a specified date
be realistic and if so what's a reasonable
amount of time?
7-8 weeks is very reasonable but no dealer would ever agree to commit to a particular date.
3. This ordered vehicle would be pick & choose
options without the BS packages. Invoice
total 31-32K.
Couldn't agree more - mine was less than 31.5K and had everything I wanted. I think the PP is a huge waste of money.
4. Would asking for any additional spiffs be
pushing my luck.
Hell no. Just keep putting pressure on the dealer - mine responded to pressure much better than friendly blah-blah-blah. Always keep in mind that you re their boss because you have to give them an evaluation of their work and their job depends on it.
5. I've already established a salesman contact
when test driving. Prepared written
quote.
Sounds good. Good luck!!!
In the end, I unequivocally decided on the BMW. It's not transportation that just allows you get from point A to point B in comfort. BMW's are the kind of cars that make you want to drive from point A to point B for no reason other than to just DRIVE.
1. Less preferred: extend the lease on the 328 by another couple of years with better terms. That's if you feel that the car is in a good shape and there are no major repairs coming up and especially if you can get extended service for the car.
2. Your best bet: Price the difference into your new 330i's lease. Two reasons why this should work: the dealer wants your business (they want to keep you) and they would want to retain the 328 after the lease is over because that's 3-4 grand in their pocket. To simplify, I'd get a quote on a 330 w/o trading anything in and then say well "we've got 4 grand to split up here and you want my biz. I'm willing to stay with you guys if you split up the difference with me and factor in a 2-3K discount on my total 330i lease payments."
I think that should work and if doesn't, they are not biz-savvy enough and don't deserve your money.
PS: It took two techies to figure out the copy and paste sequence