BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

brave1heart

17k a year is high? I guess it is, at least by most people's standards. I'm at at an average of 24K/yr for the past 6 years or so. Thanks God my employer's paying for most of my miles.

burrsr

I'm taking a page out of Brave's book by responding quickly to several messages.

1) I was considering only the TL, CL-S (no TL-S at the time) and IS300 at the time I purchased the 330i. Notice that the 330i is BLATANTLY MISSING from that short list. What does that tell you about my test drive experience? See post #2182 (or thereabouts) for my impressions...

2) The lease deal I sawe posted earlier is a reasonable one -- similar to my terms within a few $$$, options, etc. See lobs' coments regarding multiple security deposits -- it can reduce your MF in a low-risk way, reducing your monthly payments and inducing a helluva return on investment.

3) I would follow Brave's advice and use the market value as negotiating leverage, especially since you are able to use the lease expense as a write-off. I bought a GS-R at the end of lease in 1998 and sold it at a nice profit, but the bureaucratic red tape (local BMV) and logistical nightmares (advertising, scheduling test drives, etc.) requiring my time and effort effectively negated that profit. Unless you have a COMMITTED buyer in mind (e.g., family or friend), I would recommend against it. Of course, 3 or 4 G's is a decent chunk of change, so it's really a matter of what you are willing to put up with in terms of yopur effort/patience...

OK, maybe these responses were NOT exactly quick, but hey...

taos2

1. How about the $3K deposit noncancelable for
60 days or when manifest shows car on the
water...whichever comes first?
2. I mentioned the salesman contact on the
assumption it's too late to go around him
to the salesmanager directly.
3. The option comment refers to the assumption
that a dealer may be less inclined to use
an allocation slot on an unloaded vehicle.
That's also why I wanted some reasonable
deadline.

george88

With the arrival of 2002 models, will BMW offer incentives on 2001 models? I will be a first time BMW buyer this summer, and have rarely ever seen BMW advertise any incentives.
When I spoke with a local salesman, he made it seem that 325/330 's roll off the lot at MSRP-- take it or leave it...

brave1heart

No manufacturer-backed incentives but the pressure to move '01 models off the lot and make room for the '02 models is already there. The going rate seems to be $1,500-2,000 over invoice, or about $1,000-2,000 off MSRP. That, of course, will vary widely by geo area but don't let them convince you that you have to pay MSRP.

brave1heart

No dealer can hold your money if you cancel before the car is on their lot. They'll never win in court even if they are stupid enough to pursue that.

The only way to get a reasonable deadline is if you get a dealer's allocation. If they are selling you a car that has not been allocated yet, it may take much longer.

denright

Looks like we had the same thought processes. Great minds, they do think alike.

shipo

I forgot about the taxes here in New Jersey, I used to live in Illinois where all of the tax is paid up front, even on a lease.

It seems that the best plan would be to negotiate a deal with my local BMW dealer to split the profit and skip the taxes by rolling my share into a new leased 330i.

Keeping my car is certainly a very good option as well. Prior to the 328i I turned in a 1995 Passat GLX (on the 15K per year lease plan) with well over 80K miles, OOPS! Fortunately the ODO broke shortly before the turn in (3rd time that happened - first two replaced under warranty) and VW refused to replace it, even though (based upon the posts here on Edmunds) this was a known problem with the 1995-1996 vintage Passats. I had a local shop replace the instrument cluster for about $400 and feigned forgetfulness regarding current mileage (my Passat was officially turned in with 18.3 miles!). Anyway, I am now only driving about 11K miles per year and I still have a 15K lease plan. The result is that the buyout for my 328i will be WAY below its market value. That MAY mean that when a new lease is calculated, the monthly MAY go down significantly.

I will keep ya'll posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

Shall we ask now or shall we ask later? Anyone still complaining that they are not getting their questions answered here? Don't ask Jeeves, ask the 3-series board. Shagedelic, baby...

mfeldman

Well Brave, since you offered.........In 2 hours I'm going to the orthopedist for my shoulder. It's been bugging me for 10 months and hasn't been getting better. Really hampering swimming, working out and even kid lifting. MRI says no tear, but tendonitis and enlarged Ac joint. I've taken enough motrin to kill a cow, do lots of PT excercises and had two cortisone shots, to little avail. Arthroscopic surgery doesn't sound like fun, with no guarantee and 3 months rehab. Besides a client of mine just had it and it didn't turn out well.

I know this is a tough one, but you guys have a broad range of info and experience.

Thanks.

Marc

brave1heart

and I got the answer for you:

1. Switch hands
2. If Option 1 fails, go with Victoria Secret brochures - NO shoulder injuries have ever been reported from those.
lol.................gotta go outside take a break, my colleagues think i'm crazy, probably justifiably so...

Marc, I'm sorry if this is is a real issue for you; I assumed you were making it up getz-style and I'd like to apologize if I was not sensitive. Sorry...

mfeldman

mfeldman

Unfortunately it's real. But medical science hasn't figured it out. I think I'll go swimming to see if it acts up for the doctor.

brave1heart

I'll ask my wife - she's a market research manager for a biotech company and may know sth about it. Not keeping my hopes too high but I'll see if she knows anything. Sorry again I was not sensitive to your pain but at least I hope I put a smile on your face with my foolish comments. Will send you an e-mail if I find out anything.

shipo

OK! I admit, I am a little biased; the only Japanese car that I seriously considered when I was shopping was the Acura TL. After the recent outburst from v_tech, I attempted to take a rational open-minded look at the IS300, well, different strokes for different folks. I gotta tell ya, that is one butt ugly car. I have always loved cars that pushed design boundaries (1982 Audi GT Coupe/Quattro, 1950's and early 1960's Jaguar Saloons and even the Citroen 2CV, Bugeye Sprite and Mini-Cooper), even when I did not find the aesthetic personally appealing. However, this is an OUCH, it hurts my eyes. Having said that, isn't it wonderful we have so much diversity in this world, otherwise, we would all be driving an "Ultimate Driving Machine". ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

aaa330i

There were none. I stumbled upon the Austin BMW dealership when trying to get from 360 to Mopac and thought what the hell, a little "test drive" couldn't hurt. Bad move on my part I guess, but It'll beat the 92 Stylus I'm driving (hey, it's paid for).

shipo

Back in the early 1990's (before wife and kids) I was doing triathlons and developed sever "Swimmers Shoulder" in my right shoulder. I found an article in "Triathlon Times" a monthly rag from the Triathlon Federation on the number of triathletes who were developing said malady. In the article they illustrated several exercises using elastic tubing (the medical stuff) tied to a door handle to exercise the shoulder and build up certain muscles in the shoulder which help offset the muscles that you develop when swimming. The goal here was to balance the musculature around the "Ball and Saucer" of the shoulder joint, and as a result, force the "Ball" to be properly located during the stroke. I have lived in 3 states and 7 homes since then, I doubt that I will be able to find said article (I am sure that I kept it for obvious reasons), however, I have found two web sites that address the issue. One of them even has illustrated exercises similar to what I used 10 years ago (they seemed to help by the way).

The links are too long in include here, so e-mail me at shipo@yahoo.com and I will send them to you.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mfeldman

Thanks. You are a fountain of knowledge! Do you have answers re unified field theory?

jpcbearden

jasonkureejii

Actually, I didn't consider the 325i much at all in the very beginning (about 6 months ago), because I always had this idea that although BMW was synonomous with performance and luxury, it also was indicative of a maintenance nightmare. After reading this board and others for the past couple of months, it only took ONE damn test drive to realize my choice...all the other cars I test drove may have had a more luxurious feel or a better value or better dealership service but none had me smiling the entire test drive....what a turnaround....

bmwagonmaster

The plastic strips are supposed to interlock. If you had the dealer replace the front license plate bracket with the straight strip (as some others have posted about doing), they may not have interlocked the strip ends correctly. Even if that wasn't your case, it's an easy, quick fix when you point it out to them.

shipo

Sorry, can't help you there, like alpine325i, I too never finished college. I cought the programming wave back in the 1970's and never looked back.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwagonmaster

A quick thought that hasn't been mentioned here recently for anyone just starting to shop their BMW. I bought my 2000 323 iT wagon as a Certified Pre-Owned for $7000 below MSRP. It had only about 5000 miles on it, includes the balance of the "free" maintenance, plus a factory 6 year/100k warranty. I've added another 5000 miles with NO problems except a broken lock switch. As a bonus, it's also got the "original" steering...
You can run a search for CPO 3 series at BMW's website. A Southern California search just produced 38 different 2000 models and even 4 2001's.
You should find that the price listed is much more negotiable than a new 3.

kominsky

I posted this a while back with no response. I'm hoping with the huge increase of traffic here and many new posters, someone can help. When I picked up my car, there was a 'standard' license plate frame in the trunk that was painted the same color as my car. I'm hoping to find a euro-plate frame somewhere that's prepainted (the 330Ci on the cover of the coupe brochure has one). Anyone ever seen one or have any idea where I could get one? I've contacted a couple of the big BMW parts suppliers (pacific, circle, etc) with no luck. TIA!

alpine325i

I changed my American Plate Frame with a BMW European Plate Frame. Those strips and or plate frames snap in or out pretty easily. Like bmwagonmaster said, they also interlock together, and they can also slide back and forth to have the ends fit flush together. The black strip might have a broken tab that holds it into place. These tabs snap-lock into the holes of the bumper. To remove a black strip, I used a wash rag placed around a flathead screwdriver to gently pry the black plastic strip out without hurting the paint on the bumper or hurting the black strip. Sorry for the late response since I read your post a long time ago. As you can see I'm not the best at decribing things, but I hope this helps also. )

alpine325i

I have yet to see a pre-painted European plate frame, but I'm still looking. It's weird, you can buy the black ones all day long, but so far, nothing painted.

brave1heart

I did that last time you recommended it and I just got their catalog a couple of days ago in the mail. Good stuff, I like it.

dl7265

I purchased my car with carsdirect.com and they hooked me up in Arlington, i have went to Richardson but they are allways a pain and way higher ,and give rental cars as loaners insead of BMW loaners,true service is only once a year or so but still its worth the drive to me,

best of luck

DL

getz1

I'm not an orthopod but you might want to give the shoulder a rest from the excercise routine. What you described in your brief passage sounds like the classic tendonitis associated with supraspinatus inflammation which is responsible for initiating and, along with deltoid, moving the arm through abduction (moving the arm away from the body). The two cortisone shots (of which three is the limit) along with the motrin (ibuprofen) do nothing to heal the damage to your joint, they only blunt the pain and help reduce the immune/inflammatory response. With a chronic injury of this sort the best thing you can do is try resting it for a few weeks (possibly six) along with ice. Strengthening excercises are good, but they will irritate the joint just as easily as swimming, which will maintain the pattern of overuse and inflammation. Also, if you are fairly athletic and swim on a regular basis, odds are that your problem has nothing to do with muscle weakness, but imbalanced muscle strength is always a possibility. The enlarged acromialclavicular joint is interesting in that the majority of injuries to that area result from a hard fall onto the shoulder or from a fall onto an outstretched upperlimb... possibly a rousing check into the boards during one of your prep hockey days, who knows? Perhaps you may have had an AC joint dislocation that never healed properly. Also, go easy on the ibuprofen as NSAIDs have a tendency to be a little rough on the mucosa of the stomach, and I would hate to see you compound your shoulder pain with a grumpy ulcer. I feel for you as I suffered a rotator cuff tear during my sophmore year of college baseball, hurt to the point that I had trouble sleeping. Before you opt for surgery, which will undoubtedly be exploratory with no promises of results, try resting your shoulder for a month and look for improvement. Anyhow, there's two cents from a very wet behind the ears third year medical student...I turned twenty five in march though and I must admit that I am starting to feel like I am getting on in the years.
-Getz

P.S.
Our 99 323i has hade virtually no problems aside from both headlights burning out within a week of one another. I know the 323 is touted as being gutless, but it feels everybit as quick as our 00' Accord Coupe with 200hp. The top end of the BMW is amazing, you will be cruising at 90 and the little 2.5l I6 will be spinning around 3k rpm just as quite as mom's old sewing machine. About the [non-permissible content removed] debate that I missed out on, as a Jew I can honestly say that I had very little reservations about buying German. It would be the proverbial cutting off your nose to spite your face all over again. I don't hold any grudges against the egyptians for using my long deceased relatives to build pyramids either. I think all that can be gained from those atrocities is the knowledge of how to keep them from ever happening again.

jasonkureejii

Thanks for the info on the Richardson Dealer (Classic, right?). Yeah, I actually had questions about loaners in the Meet the Owners board...that is, if you don't buy a car from dealers in your area, are they going to have attittudes about it when it comes time to service your car, ie no BMW loaner or no loaner at all.

postoak

I encounter a number of 3 series on my daily commute and have started looking at the wheels/tires to see the difference in appearance between the SP and non-SP. I'm not sure what I'm seeing out there. I've seen some 5 spoke wheels, some 7 spoke wheels, and some wheels in which the spokes "split" as they approach the rim and become something like a 14 (I'm guessing) spoke wheel. I'm looking at 323s and 328s as well as 325s and 330s.

Can someone give me identifications guidelines? Was there a change in wheels from 323/328 and 325/330 and is there a difference between 323 and 328 and between 325 and 330? It all seems rather confusing at this point.

I guess I could go to a dealership and take a look but at this point I prefer to avoid those places.

brave1heart

Wow, not only can we answer 3-series related questions but also any automotive questions in addition to history questions and orthopedic questions. We should try matchmaking and/or pregnancy tests and if we do well, maybe we can apply for a patent on a knowledge-based query tool and split the royalties with Edmunds )

jasonkureejii

Hey, how far along in the queue is status 150...what number is the starting status (0?)...anyone familiar with these...if not, not too worried about it....

brave1heart

postoak, this is not nearly a complete guide but I can say that pretty much all the wheels are different. The 323s typically have the 14-spokes that you are talking about. The 328s that I have seen seem to have the 7-spoke wheels like the 325s. The 325s are all 7-spoke and you can tell the SP on these by the bigger wheels. The xi models have different wheels from the i and ci models. Not sure how to describe them but they look busy. The ci non-SP models have 5 thick spokes, which are just OK. The 330s SP have the wheels from the M3, which are the 5 double-spokes. These look a little too busy and aggressive for my taste. My favorite by far are the wheels on the 325i SP - style 44 wheels which are 7-spokes that curve in toward the center of the wheel like a beautiful fountain. Elegant and clean-looking, yet sporty.

jpcbearden

How did you find Joern Esser/this good deal? Just curious.

postoak

Excellent! Just what I was looking for. You're right, it is complicated. I need to print out your post and carry it with me! :-)

thedeepdarkblu

As my 325Ci is still in 112 status, I have to live vicariously through you. How has the past week been with your 325i? Are you still thinking about adding Dinan mods, or are you totally satisfied w/ the power? Also, anything other rants/raves about your new baby?

Just let me know how things are going--give me details, details, details. The more the better.

frank69m

Hi guys, M3 Frank here again....Just wondering to see how many of you got the extended warranty and how much you paid for it and why you choose it....Is it a good idea?

M3 Frank

brave1heart

Well, having had the car for almost three weeks now has not diminished my enthusiasm for it at all. Quite the opposite - every waking day that I drive Shtroumpf Muscle I feel like I am one lucky sob to have this car at this age. Laugh all you want but I still haven't gotten over the fear that I will have to turn it in some time soon. It's completely irrational but this car is so inspiring, I am still pinching myself to believe that I own it. I have replaced the printouts from the web that I had attached to the fridge with real pictures of the car that we took in beautiful Newport, RI recently. I can still stare at those for minutes at a time, just as I used to look at the printouts. Every time I start the engine, I still roll down the windows and turn my head sideways so I'd hear this great engine sound better. I got in the habit of rolling all the windows down and cruising at high speed on a nice sunny day just to hear the motor better, to feel the wind in my hair and to smell things better. It's little things in life that I'm looking for to put a smile on my face and Shtroumpf Muscle offers a lot of these simple pleasures.
As far as mods, I am so happy with the car that I gave this second priority. Maybe if someone whips my [non-permissible content removed] I'll give it a higher priority but chances of that happening are slim, especially the way the car has broken in.

platypus

jpcbearden: Now that would entail giving away my secrets, wouldn't it? At least it would debunk the myth that brave1heart has created that I worked my rear-end off for the deal. Kidding aside, there was no magic and no hard-line negotiating. Just a simple referral from an internet discussion board from someone I didn't even know... As a matter of fact, this method provided me with several dealers across the country who all gave me compelling deals, some of whom I have also made reference to here at the Town Hall.

brave1heart: Just a clarification to your post on the wheels. The 330 SP wheels are not the same as those on the M3. 330 SP wheels are 17" and have five primary extensions from the center. Each primary extension has two separate spokes, hence the term "double-spoke." The wheels also have the M logo on them, hence the description "M double-spoke." These are very sporty looking wheels, but are still in excellent taste - aggressive yet refined. The M3 wheels are 18" and have ten primary extensions from the center. Each extension also has two separate spokes. These wheels are also very sporty, and IMHO, more busy looking than the 330 SP wheels.

postoak: The 325 SP wheels (coupe and sedan) are the same as those on the 328 SP sedan - 7-spoke. The 328 SP coupe has the same wheels as the 330 SP (coupe and sedan) - M double-spoke. The standard 330 sedan wheels are a radial design (lots of spokes). The standard 328 sedan wheels are a mesh design (cross-spoke).

jasonkureejii

Inspiring words, man...I must say. Hopefully all of our experiences can be as inspiring after 3 weeks...hell, even after 3 years...

brave1heart

platypus - Thanks for the clarification on the wheels. I went to bmwusa.com and I saw the differences that you described. The models are typically matched to the correct wheels on the web site - I built my own models to get visuals. As far as working your rear-end off, I didn't mean in that way. I've always believed that hard work pays off but smart work pays off even more. You've done a lot of smart work by doing your research right; I didn't mean for the myth to include WWF fights with the dealer )

frank - The 4-th year was priced at $400 at my dealer's and the salesperson told me that it basically included an oil change and probably it wasn't worth it. Even if it included more, I'd rather pay for what I need when I need it. 3 years is a long time and a number of things could happen that would make the 4-th year a total waste of money, IMO

gurumike

150 status means the work order has been produced at the factory and a chassis and equipment list has been produced and will soon grow into a vehicle. The car is about 5-7 days away from becomming "produced, not shipped".
Hope this helps!

tcn2k

Thanks for the info.

But still one dumb question still lingers in my mind. If the strip is snapped on to the bumper holes as alpine says, then how could the plastic strip be moved in or out to get the ends flush together?
The problem i saw was that one of the plastic end was not sitting flush in when meeting the center plastic END. You see what i am trying to say? The right plastic end was lift a bit, and when i tried pushing it back it, pops back our 60 seconds later? Is this a quick fix like replacing it. If so, do dealer usually keep these cheap platic on stock - or do i have to live with the problem for a week?

alpine325i

Postoak: Go to circlebmw.com. click "parts dept", then click "alloy wheels 1999". You will see big full color pictures of all the styles of BMW wheels. Not much has changed. )

postoak

Thanks all!

Yes, after Braveheart1's mention of BMWNA, I've been digging around in there (wish the server were faster!) and am gradually seeing all the combinations. I will be spending hours over there!

Alpine325i - you are the man!! The only problem is relating these wheel names to models. I know from BH1 that the 325i SP must be the Star Spoke 44. Which wheel is on the 325i non-SP?

jasonkureejii

Thanks, man...actually that helps out alot...it gives me a better picture...

brave1heart

Style 43 - 325ci w/o SP
Style 44 - 325i SP and 325ci sport (17 ")
Style 45 - 325i (16")

Although 44 and 45 are very similar, you will notice the slight indentation right where the spokes meet the rim. I like the effect they create that way. The 44's resemble the Avus style wheels on the Audi S4, which I really like for their clean, elegant, yet sporty design.

denright

Can you re-check my order? My dealer assured me it was properly ordered. Could you check the status?

Again, it's a 330xi - AWD, PP, CWP, In-Dash, Steel Gray Metallic/Gray, bound for VOB BMW in Rockville, MD.

postoak

Yes, I can see what you mean. BTW, at these prices I think wheel locks will be my first accessory!