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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • ved3ved3 Posts: 43
    I've read some earlier comments about Lexus,
    Japanese cars in general, being boring, having
    no style or character. I wanna respond.
    I hope those of you who truly are owners of
    Lexus cars are not persuaded to believe that
    you're owning boring or unstylish cars. There
    is nothing wrong with our taste in styles. All
    cars have their own character. A Lexus car's
    character is being all it can be to please its
    owner. doing almost everything well. A BMW's
    character is "fun driving" but not reliable enough. Lexus cars are German cars biggest
    threat with owner satisfaction. so MB,BMW
    promoters, enthusiasts need to propagate that
    Lexus cars are boring, have no character.
    After all, MB, BMW have to be better than the
    competition at something if not at producing
    reliable cars, offering value.
    Regarding unigueness, look at BMW's 3,5,7, M coupe series. They all have the same basic
    designes except for size and luxury. Check out
    Audi's A4,A6,A8. they all look the same.
    At least each Lexus model has its own unique
    design. Even Acura is trying to do what the
    German makes are doing which is to have a
    "signature design". Acura cars tend to look alike
    these days, even the MDX SUV. So Lexus is on the
    right track of being innovative and a leader.
    Others need to catch up. And they have been
    scrambling to catch up. look at how MB,BMW have
    been offering better value, quality since the
    LS400,ES300 selling success of the early 90s.
    I just hope Lexus will not consider offering
    a "signature design" for all their cars. if so,
    then Lexus cars would really be boring.
    for now, they're on a roll.

    I know some of you are offended. sorry! just
    stating my honest opinion. for those who are
    actually MB,BMW enthusiasts disguised as Lexus
    enthusiasts, please state your claims that
    Lexus cars are boring at the BMW discussion
    board and you wouldn't have a response like this.
    Thank you!
  • sddlwsddlw Posts: 361
    It was me (and turbotc I think) that said earlier I thought my ES300 was boring and uninspired in the styling department, but that it made up for it in relaibility and the cost/benefit areas and that drove my decisions to buy. Why do you seem to imply I'm not a Lexus owner? Why can't a Lexus owner have negative thoughts as well as positive thoughts on their car? I am also an MB owner and enthusiest and I will state over and over again that my MBs are wonderful cars with a great feel and styling but have the limitation of high purchase prices for the features offered and a very high cost of maintanence. There are similar trade-offs for any car regardless of the particular car's strong points. It is silly to maintain otherwise.
  • sddlwsddlw Posts: 361
    Me again....btw: just saw a picture of the new Lexus SC with the retractable hard-top coming out soon. Pretty hot looking car. It is a little like the Boxter, but still has it's own look. Basicly awsome styling. Maybe some of that inspiration spilled over to the new ES coming out soon?? No one seems to be able to get any pics on the new ES though, so it's hard to tell.

    And, as was said a few posts ago, I don't think the ES is bad, or ugly, and I do own one. This forum helped me make up my mind and negotiate the deal back in July/August.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    Actually I never said that the ES300 styling was boring. I actually think it is pretty attractive looking. I really like the rear lights (whitish) on the MY2000 and up. It is definitely not boring at all. I am just saying that it rides totally different than my E320. I really enjoy the handling of the MB as I really enjoy driving it. Then again they aren't comparable cars with the E320 like 20 grand more. But you can't beat the Lexus reliability. That just goes to say why so many Americans buy Japanese but if you go to Japan you will see why so few Japanese buy Americans.
  • ved3ved3 Posts: 43
    Hi guys,
    ok again sorry if I offended anyone.
    I was kinda disappointed with the new SC design
    but it is nice looking. I was expecting so much
    more from Lexus since the last SC was such an
    awsome design that left a major mark in the
    automotive world--future hall of famer for cars.
    I hope the new ES will not look like that.
    Lexus can do better. but the folding hard-top is
    impressive. I think they should try to speed it
    up though. Let's see if other manufacturers will
    do the same with their future models.
  • sddlwsddlw Posts: 361
    turbotc - sorry for wrongly including you in the "boring" catagory. I did not look back in the discussion. It's funny that you mention the rear-end. That is where I think the ES styling is the weakest!! Just goes to show you how people and opinions differ. I like the ES profile from the front center the best.

    A bit off-topic but, have you guys seen the whole new crop of convertables? The Toyota MR2, Lexus SC, Honda, the redesigned Thunderbird ... There are some really great cars coming out these days. Maybe I'll pry my wife's hands from her 84-SL and get her a 21st century car.

    btw: we test drove an SLK last year. The retractable hard-top is "way-cool". All the convienence and quiet of a sedan and yet a convertable!
  • lievliev Posts: 93
    Actually I don't understand why a lot of people say they can not tell whether the car is a ES or a Camry if they don't see the symbol on the car. I usually identify a car by looking at its taillights because taillight styles are unique on each car. I could just name any car on the road by just looking at their rear lights from a distance without looking at the symbol. The ES rear lights are never the same as the Camry's.

    After all, it comes down to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Each individual's taste is different. One may prefer uniqueness (that's why you see car painted with combination of lime green and purple) while other may prefer conservative looking cars, so long as the look of the car pleases their eyes. For me, the 01 ES with clear rearlights lenses is attractive and the wood steering wheel makes it look very classy. That's why I bought the car. Oops, not really. Comfort is what make me decide on the Lexus vs. the TL.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    sddlw,

    No problem. My wife actualy loves her ES because she says it "feminine" looking. I actually think the ES is attractive front and back. My wife thinks the E320 and the TL looks too much of a "masculine" vehicle.

    liev,

    Wow, looks like you can make a good state trooper, looking for stolen cars. My wife has no clues about what cars are what. She always says "as long as I can start it and it runs, who cares?" She once came home and told me a John Deere vehicle almost ran her of the road. i said what are you talking about, John Deere don't make cars. It turned out to be a Chevy Impala which has the logo of a deer. haha
  • I found some info and pictures on the Internet and thought I should share with you guys. I don't know if they were real or touch-up pictures. Does anyone know?


    http://www.geocities.com/busybeetoys/scoop/edn22.htm


    and


    http://www.j-cars.net/newcar_oct00.htm

  • poomjai,

    Looks like you may have hit the jackpot on the first 2002 ES300 pictures.

    BUT....if those pictures of the front end are accurate, I sure as hell am glad I have a 2000-2001 model, not the upcoming one.

    Whew. Am glad I dodged a bullet in styling degradation by buying the current model.!!!!

    Al F.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    That looks like a BAT MOBILE. or a Hyundai Tuboron.
  • If that article is correct and the engine is remaining a 3.0L, that is REAL disappointing! The current car suffers from a severe lack of low end torque even with VVT-i. I don't understand what Lexus would be thinking, especially given the fact that the new Acura 3.2 TL-S is cranking out 260HP. I would be nice to see a 3.3L (ES330) or even 3.5L (ES350). Maybe they are trying to keep the gas mileage up or developing a brand new engine would have driven up the cost too much. I hope they at least go with a 5 speed automatic and make the transmission more responsive, i.e., quicker to downshift. The current transmission is a smooth one but there is at least a once second hesitation when you try to kick it down to 2nd.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    That is NOT the new ES -- it is somebody messing with existing photography. That is the exact image that was in the ES brochure a few years ago. Somebody just altered the front end. If you look at the rest of the car, including the creases on the hood where they meet the windshield, you'll see it is the current car.

    The new ES should follow other recent Lexus new cars and have the pullout door handles (this car does not have them) and either no lower cladding or cladding that is body color (this car is two-tone).

    I don't buy this picture for one minute.
  • ved3ved3 Posts: 43
    I don't think that's the new ES either.
    It doesn't look right. If it is and Lexus
    maintains the same 3.0L 210hp, I would be
    very disappointed in Lexus.

    furthermore, I believe I saw an ES pic on the
    jp site that was just like that(same background
    and front end shot) but it was the current
    ES design.

    so a strong possibility is that it's just a
    touch up. nice try!
    thanks Poomjai for sharing it. how did you find
    it?
  • I know what you're talking about with the taillights. I can do that too. I was kinda disappointed when they changed the LS's real taillights; they stayed the same for the first 10 years.
  • First-a sidenote. I have been looking for Scoop's site for a while now. Thank You

    As far as the accuracy of the pictures, Scoop is hit-and-miss, but I remember with the LS 430, they were way off, so I don't know. That other site had the picture though, so it could be accurate.

    The specs will not be accurate, because that is a Japanese site, so the specs will only apply for Japanese models. I would be really surprised if the don't put a new V6 in there.

    In relation to Scoop's accuracy, check the lexus on this page out:

    http://www.geocities.com/busybeetoys/scoop/edn26.htm

    I doubt it
  • Hi

    I'm shopping for an ES 300 in the Maryland region. Any ideas on the prices paid for it ?
  • lievliev Posts: 93
    scongro

    Well, but scrongo, I didn't pay attention about taillights that far back, especially, luxury cars. I have been looking at taillights 2,3 years ago. so I only can name new car models.

    turbotc,

    I should have said that I can name newer models of cars by looking at taillights. I'm not qualify for being a state trooper yet, but may be in few years......
    That was funny, but at least your wife knew there is a company call John Deer.
  • lue5lue5 Posts: 2
    I really like the Coach Editions because of the leather seat styling. Yesterday I saw a 2001 Coach that has a half wooded steering wheel which I don't like. Does anyone know what was the last year they made a Coach with just the simple leather-covered steering wheel?

    I've been in the market for over a year looking for a new/ewer car. So far I like the Lexus ES300 because of its reliability. While the handling is okay but it doesn't really excite me like a BMW does (which I've owned but no longer want the hassles that come with it). I test drove a '01 GS300. It was nice but don't know if I would spend the extra $10K.

    Has anyone test drove the GS300? I would appreciate any comments. Thanks in advance.
  • The Coach is new for this year and the package includes the wood trimmed wheel. You won't see any usaed ones yet.

    While the Coach is nice for $300 less you can get the Nakamichi package which offers more practical accessories and deletes the wood trimmed wheel. You might have to look for a used one with that or other packages instead.

    Don't know where you live but remember the GS is rear wheel drive as opposed to ES FWD. As a Minnesota boy that rules it out for me. It's definitely tighter and better handling than the ES but surprisingly offers less room especially in the rear. Aesthetics are up to you of course. Personally even if I lived in RWD country I'd still take the ES and the extra cash but both would be far more reliable and offer better resale value than a comparable BMW, as well as being smoother and quieter over time.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I spoke with a guy from Lexus corporate (not a salesperson) at the Chicago Auto Show over the weekend. Here's what he said on the new ES: Corporate people only have been shown a video which describes the car in detail. Specific details that the new car will definitely have are a gated shifter, pull-out door handles (like other Lexuses), optional power rear sun shade, optional nav system and optional ML stereo. He reiterated what I've heard before, that the car will be a major departure from the current one. He thought production of the car was slated to begin in early July.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    Inquiring minds want to know...what kind of hassles did you have with your BMW?...what model did you have, and what makes you want to leave them?
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    The ES300 has coach editions in 96 and 99 as well. We actually have a 99 Coach Black/Ivory. Coach leather, and emblems but no wood steering wheel.
  • rugmankcrugmankc Posts: 133
    I have a 1999 Coach. Color is Antique Burnished Gold. You can only get an ES300 in that color if it is a coach. So not many out there. Has all options including VSC and Nak. Currently only 19,000 miles. No kids, pets, or smoking inside. Immaculate condition. Has the perforated seats and leather wheel. I may buy an RX300 in next few months and sell the ES. I am in Dayton OH. If interested you can send me your email address, and I will let you know if I am going to sell.

    Ken
    [email protected]
  • lue5lue5 Posts: 2
    Thanks for everyone's input.

    Regarding the hassles with my BMW:
    I've owned a 1973 2002 (bought used in 1975-1976 at the time swore I would never buy another BMW)and a 1980 320i(new) which I've kept for 14 years. As a matter of fact I've owned mostly European cars until I bought a '93 Honda (new). When I first got my 320i the speedometer was replaced at 700 miles, then at about 20k the master cylinder went out. Later it was the water pump at 30k, alternator was replaced twice before 100k, heater cable broke, electric mirror kept breaking, and always had to watch for over heating, etc. Luckily I didn't have air conditioning in it otherwise another thing could have gone wrong. Plus the BMW dealers are not the nicest bunch. I used independent mechanics. These may seem like little things but after driving a Honda (146k miles) none of those things ever happened. I sold the 320i at 130k to a friend who still drives and loves it. It was my dream car and loved driving it but now I just am not willing to deal with the maintainance. Is it a sign of age?

    BTW, I was at a BMW dealer this weekend and their attitudes still haven't changed.

    Ken, I live in the SF bay area otherwise I would want to consider your car. Dayton is a bit far.
  • I have been following this board for some time now. A local Lexus dealer told me to check out the follow as the NEW ES300:

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/MarkII/index.html

    Click on the various links associated with this site and you will see:

    o Interior and exterior views

    o Features like

    -Lighted cupholders

    -Cameras mounted in the bumper

    -Mark Levinson stereo

    -Rear power shades

    -Parking radar?

    - and others


    I am not sure whether these are standard or optional or even if this the new ES but it is interesting to speculate.

  • lievliev Posts: 93
    What does the parking radar do? Does it detect obstructions around your car while you try to back into a parking spot? Cameras? Wow, looks like the pricet will be over 40K as someone had mentioned it before with all these features as standards.
  • Some people have expressed disapointment with the next ES300 revision not getting a new engine. Not to worry; it's pretty standard that when a redesign comes around as the last revised ES 300 in 1998 (minor), the newer engine didn't come along untill the following year.

    Car companies can usually sell out new models based soley on a fresh look. Then to keep the model fresh, they will usually add the new engine on the 2nd year of a newer revision.

    The MBZ E class did the same thing, bringing a new engine a year or two after introducing the oval head lamps. The following 3-4 years usually bring minor changes like color selection, added air bags, new tail lamps, change in the alloy wheels....
  • I challenge all of you to attempt to post GOOD reasons why the ES300 is a superior vehicle to the 2002 TL-S with 260 hp, 232 ft-lbs torque. Oh yeah, and it's coming in loaded at 31,500. And for your grease-monkeys -- the 0 - 60 times are projected at 6.4 sec. I've just gotten rid of my '94 ES300 w/ over 108K miles on it, and thank god, what a depressing, bland vehicle. Time to rock the VTEC w/ my new TL-S. Here's your challenge, talk to you soon.

    Pete
  • Since you have don't you see the difference in the quality of the interior? The cheesy shiny leather. The fake wood decals. Interiors are more important than exteriors to me on a car because that's what I look at most and I'm not interested in what looks cool to others. So that would be number one for me.

    I've test driven the TL and the ES extensively. Personally I decided to spring for the A6 2.7T instead but I realize that's going to cost much more. Yep even the current TL is quicker so sure the S will be. It's also got more wind noise and a more harsh ride. Comfort is more important to me in my primary vehicle than 0-60s, which are good only for racing from lights anyway - a pastime I don't often indulge in.

    The Acura's a nice car. It has all the features you could ask for. It's reliable and drives nicely. But between the two I'd go for the Lexus for its added refinement, fit and finish and comfort.

    Your criteria could very easily be different but if sportiness and excitement are your key choices why the Acura over, say, BMW or Saab or even the Audi S4 ?
  • The parking radar is used to let you know when you are getting too close when backing into a space. It is NOT clear whether any of these are standard features are not. Just click on some of the hot links and see for yourself.
    The cameras are mounted in the ends (edges) of the bumper looking left and right. This will let you see arond corners where obstructions may hamper visability. The images are shown split screen on a large central display.
  • DMal,

    Thanks for being the first to respond. I think the TL, and even the TL-S compares best with the ES300 when considering the overall package. Comparing similarly priced entry level luxury cars (i.e. your Audi A4, Saab, BMW), their is a distinct difference in size and upfront features offered at a fixed price. For what amounts to 26,500 (the going rate for an '01 TL no Nav), the TL is a better package than the ES300. Honestly, I also think the prestige of the Lexus badge on the ES300 is dwindling along with the bland styling. I have no doubt the '02 ES300 (which I've seen projected images of) will be a stunning new look to the car that, along with the LS400, put the new luxury carmaker, Lexus, on the map in '92. However, I think they are still overpriced and unless the ES300 is gunna dump the 210 hp 3.0, and opt for more displacement, or different headers and exhaust mods, that engine isn't going to compete with your 2.7T at about 40K+. The line between luxury and fully-loaded blue collar vehicles is quickly fading, and the ES300 is caught in the middle.
  • I sure hope the Mark II shown on the Japanese
    web site is the new ES300. I think the Mark II is drop dead gorgeous. If I could confirm that the Mark II is in fact the new ES, I'd cancel my
    C320 order on the spot. Anybody know where a person could find someone with authority who might know if the Mark II is in fact the new ES?

    Thanks folks.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    Excellent post, now run along little boy and play with your V6 Accord......er or was it a TL? I can't even tell anymore.
  • Um, ok Turbotc, oh and by the way, great screenname.

    You probably can't tell anymore 'cuz your breath is foggin' up the outside windows of the Acura showroom. Maybe you should save up some money and trade in your Corolla for a real sedan and quit pretending like you belong to a entry-level luxury car forum!

    I'm gunna go run to my little sand-box now and play with my little Accord like TURBOTC says!!
  • It has come to my attention, after perusing some of the previous posts, that Turbotc is the distinguished owner of the illustrious and exclusive '99 ES300 Coach edition, as well as the MB E320. He still hasn't told me why the ES300 is superior to the TL-S.

  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    You know Peter my child, I ain't even going to bother wasting my time with you. Is it that you choose a TL simply because your 2 jobs at Wendys and Burger King just simply can't afford anything better. You want to see what it's like? Take a ride to Boston with your half leather half vinyl seats and fake wood TL and I'll meet you on the highway and see what you "Accord lookalike" will do on the highway. In the meantime, try applying at your local Walmart store and maybe someday you can afford a better car than the Accord.....er or was it the TL? I rest my case. Adios.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    In case you couldn't read Peter my boy. This is an ES forum for ES owners to talk about their cars. If you wanted a half vinyl half leather car we would be there joining you and the rest of the Honda folks, don't ya think. Now run along like a good little boy. Also, true the TL has more power than the ES. It will ensure you get to Burger King on time after your done at Wendys. Wouldn't wanna lose that job and have them take back the TL would you?
  • turbotc,

    You've got it all wrong my friend... While paying for your E320 and that waste of money coach edition ES, (god does it have ugly wheels), you have managed to subscribe to that great FREE internet service of NetZero. Are the bank teller checks not cutting it anymore these days? Can't find that extra $20 bucks a month for a quick and reliable ISP? Hey, do you keep gas in those cars, or do you just wash them on a regular basis. I bet they look shiny when you leave for work on the bus. Save it...
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    ........therefore I challenge you 2 boys to post pictures of what your all-mighty TLs look like. Just as a courtesy to show the folks here that you actually own one. Click below to see my ES300 Coach and MB E320. Notice the ES is very dirty from the winter weather. You two boys interested in washing it for some spare change?


    image

  • Hey Vin,

    I'm at Boston University (City Hospital) bud, and guess what, I guess I can't afford much on a resident physicians salary yet. Yeah, I guess the TL will do. I'll be ripp-roaring around your "S-Class" (that you're so ready to sell both your cars for), on my way to work, and maybe save some lives for a living, while I watch you take that notorious right turn into .. what was it, Wendy's or Burger King, so you can go manage your acne-ridden min. wage employees. Hey, food folks and fun! Or what's your co's new slogan? Who cares, I know you're satisfied, cuz your slogan's the relentless pursuit of perfection! Talk to you soon. PJonkheer, amen brutha, amen.

  • Hey turbotc, figure out how to link an image to a URL properly, that big red X is no indication of how lovely your coach-edition Camry looks! for shame...
  • You're not to savvy to the auto industry are you .. The TL Type S is arriving in MARCH, and if I'm so crazed, and truly as lonely and bored, and underloved as you are, I'll go photograph my car and post it on the internet, because I'll be SURE that my car is just the most darn unique TL Type S, as I'm sure you considered your ES300 Coach edition to be. Hmmm, maybe NetZero will give me half a meg of webspace so I can post some shots of my TL in front of BMC out on Concorde!

    Bye Vinny
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    .............when you have some (someday in 22nd century, when you ACTUALLY DO own a TL then give me a holler and we can go out to lunch. In the meantime why talk about what you don't already own and you know what physicians always say. "It's extremely healthy to the body to DREAM." Adios Amigo.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    For those asking if the Mark II is the new ES, I would say no. The Mark II is the successor to what was the Cressida here in the U.S. I believe it is rear wheel drive, so it can't be the new ES (which of course is front drive). It is a totally different car line. Besides, Lexus is really keeping the new ES a secret and I doubt they would provide such easy access to it on the Japanese web site. Just my thoughts.

    As far as the TL-S vs. ES debate, there's no question from an engineering standpoint the Acura is great. But I think the ES is just as good (with a little less horsepower). Further, the ES kills the TL in terms of the luxury details: the Nak stereo (soon to be Mark Levenson) is far superior to the Bose, real wood vs. fake wood, and just the overall quality of interior materials. The TL interior looks and feels cheap compared to the ES. Also, the Acura dealer experience doesn't compare to Lexus. My sister has the old CL, and I know her salesman well. He's nice, but a total schlub who always has his shirt untucked and pants dragging on the floor. You'd never find that at Lexus. And, I like the other people I see at the Lexus dealer. At Acura half the people in the dealer are college kids with their Integras. Everyone may not agree with me, but I feel the ES' quality of materials, higher grade options and dealer experience are worth the extra cost over the TL.
  • turbotcturbotc Posts: 163
    I applaud your post. Absolutely right. And I'm sure most folks here if not all will agree. happy motoring.
  • I believe you are correct about the Mark II being a rear wheel drive. In fact, by clicking around the spec pages on the Japanese web site, it may even come in a four wheel drive version. Could you imagine a four wheel drive, V-6, ES300 over here on this side of the pond? I'd put down a deposit sight unseen. Thanks for your input.
  • I'm glad somebody posted their point of view without bashing anyone... Good post, but you fail to consider all the factors. Yes, the ES has the higher quality in the interior essentials, but you forget to post how much MORE this will cost the consumer. If I can have ALL the same features an ES presents PLUS the Navigation system for 6k to 7k less, then I'm game. Why pay that much more to talk to a salesman that has a nice tye?? Once I buy my car from this schleprock, I will never have to see him again. So I don't care if he is in shorts and sandles. At any rate, the TL gives you ALL the same features, plus more but maybe at a slightly lower grade. No NAV on the ES, and much less power.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Okay folks, that's enough name calling and taunting.

    Please chill - remember that your TOU requires respectful behavior. (There is a link on the left sidebar if anyone needs to review it.)

    Thanks.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • lievliev Posts: 93
    You guys are off-topic now. This forum is for Lexus owner to talk about their cars so that advices will be exchanged to improve their ES or to get rid of the problems, not to fight that one's car is better than the other.

    PeterUsers, you forget that you're in a forum for Lexus fans here. Don't put down the ES because everybody has their own preference, and you'll have to realize that this is a ES300 conference for Lexus owners. They must love their ES to participate in this conference. Of course, people get offended when you talk so negative about their ES. Don't you feel the same way, now the way Turbotc and other talk about the TL.

    I could not agree with Dmallinder and Turbotc more that the ES is a more refined car over the TL and offer much more elegance and comfort, but I also do agree with you that it is much less reponsive than the TL . I had the same opinion like you about the TL before I went test drive either cars. I heard a lot of compliments about the TL for the value it offers and decided it would be the one I was going to get..... Until I went test driving a Lexus just for my brother's sake. He suggested it me just to go testing driving one, he said there is nothign to lose and the ES seems to offer more elegance for a woman than the TL, further, LEXUS has more prestige than the Acura. He said I have nothign to lose but at least I'll have know the difference between the two cars. I thought he was annoying and the only way to get rid of that annoyance is to test drive the ES. Guess what, after test driving the ES, I know that there is nothign else to think about. This is it! And, I ended up paying 5K more for the ES than what I would have to pay for the TL. And, there is no HID for the ES either.

    See, people's taste are different. Don't try to convince people that theirs is bad and yours is good. Since you already own an ES and now own a TL and think the TL is better, you can get in this ES conference and talk about what makes you think the TL is better than the ES to give people some insights but not to say that what they own is bad.

    I don't think Turbotc calling you little boy with bad intention. He might have been joking in the first place. How long have you been following these posts? I found this form interesting and feel like people I have been communicating to are friends who give me advices that I need when I had problems with my ES and I feel good to give advice so others can benefit from my experience too with the ES, though we don't really know each other more than just their fake or user names. Perhaps, you take things so personally and lose your temper too quick.

    Turbotc,
    Sometimes you should be careful about your language. A lot of times, I wrote then revised my posts because I think a certain language could offend people; especially, English is my second language. Remember people only see words on the screen, they don't see your face or hear your tone, so there might be misunderstandings based on the language that you use.
This discussion has been closed.