Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    Lexus NA does not offer free maintanance for 2 years of ownership under its warranty program. The only services that are free from Lexus under warranty are the 1K and 5K/7.5K services.

    The 2yr. "free" maintanance plan is unique to that dealer. I'm sure some other dealers offer it but you are still paying for it. And my suggestion would be to find out exactly what that 2yr. free maintanance program includes. By that I mean does it only include oil changes for 2 years. Or does it also include the 15K service which regularly runs about $350 to $400.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Very disappointed to hear that the 02 ES will hit 40K....maybe loaded with options? I can't understand why Lexus would jack up price on ES when the LS 430 remained the same (w/o options).

    Enigmaone, say it ain't so! I hope the Texas salesman was mistaken.

    Any pix of the 02 ES yet anyone?

    Thanks....
  • smheyingsmheying Member Posts: 7
    Thanks Vern and Enigmaone,
    According to the maintenance plan that the dealer gave to me, it includes all the service up to the 25,000 mile mark. It also includes pick up and delivery service, loaner car and roadside assistance. They say that it essentially adds about $600 to the invoice price (about 2%). How does that stack up to non-Houston dealer service.

    What do you think? Is it worth the extra $$$$
  • vernlewvernlew Member Posts: 87
    Steve,

    As Enigma pointed out some of those "major" services are fairly pricey...so I would say the extra $600 bucks is reasonable. The pick up/delivery, loaner, and roadside assistance are pretty much standard Lexus bennies. Plus, if this also includes all the 5K oil changes...this sounds like a good dealer incentive, which actually does cost the dealer some extra bucks. Sounds like a good deal to me...If it doesn't to you...then negotiate some freebies...like some Lexus accessories, a car cover, window tinting, etc.
    Good Luck,
    Vern
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    smheying,

    Well, you're really not getting much free with that $600 addition.

    Consider Lexus pays for your first service at 5K miles. After that you have:
    10K service: $90~
    15K service: $350-$400
    20K service: $90
    25K service: $90

    Basically you're paying the same. Your dealer may even have cheaper 10K, 20K and 25K services. My dealer charges $90 at 10K, 20K, 25K intervals for what is basically a oil, filter change, and tire rotation. You can get that done at a Toyota dealer for $35. And without the ridiculous "checks" that Lexus dealer does at the 15K mark, that service will easily run you about $250, and maybe less.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    rolloman,

    I wouldn't expect the 2002 ES300 to start at $40K. I would fully expect the 2002 ES300s price to be basically where the 2001 leaves off. which means at about $32K. I wouldn't doubt a loaded ES300 coming close to $40K though. HIDs should become standard, the Es300 should have side curtain airbags front & back, as well as a standard CD-changer. The major options will remain the leather trim, moonroof, upgraded M. Levinson stereo, and of course the navigation system will be available. And I'm sure some new options will come and I would say the AVS suspension option will probably decease because of low demand for the current one. This ES300 will be based on a totally new platform, so its hard to accurately predict what size it will be how it will ride etc.
  • robert_s_22robert_s_22 Member Posts: 25
    That may be the case, although I am just going off what the salesman said. That sounds pretty close to me as I've seen some 2000's sticker at over 37K, you also have to add in the ML/Nav package that will probably come with a lot of other option. On the GS/LS 430 this like a $7,000 dollar option, and I bet everyone will pay full MSRP for at least a year. I am guessing it will run in line w/ the RX300 which I've seen run as high as $44,000. There's no way it will be close in price to the Infinity/Acura, which will probably run off buyers. I think the Lexus is a lot better car than either. Look for it to take the car world by storm. If it really get all those option plus say a bigger motor, 5spd auto, and sportier suspension, it will, to me, be worth the price. Let me know what you think..Later
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    I doubt the ML/Navigation combo on the ES300 will cost $7,000. The ES300 will get a "cheaper" M. Levinson stereo than what the other Lexus models get. The Nak. in the current ES300 costs about $500 vs. over $1K in the other Lexus models. The same should hold true for the ES300.
  • aimanaiman Member Posts: 61
    Enigma,

    is the new ES going to use the next generation Camry platform or will it use its own or other Lexus platform (eg. GS or IS)?

    I was thinking since many anti-Lexus and the media criticizing the reputation of ES as a luxury car for using the lower class/less prestigious Camry platform, maybe the ES (and even the future RX) ought to use a modified IS or GS platform, instead. Hence, no more remarks about the ES as a souped up Camry, etc. ,and Lexus fans don't have to explain that 78% or so ES parts are unique etc. In fact, doing may may even improve the car's image just like the Passat which uses the higher class/ore prestigious Audi A4 platform.

    I personally don't have anything against using the Camry platform since it is a very crashworthy platform. Anywa, just a thought.
  • domettgdomettg Member Posts: 55
    It would be nice if the '02 ES300 had it's engine size bumped to 3.3L, i.e., the ES330. That would help improve the lack of low end torque in the existing power plant. One of the goals at Lexus should be to have each of their vehicles have the best performance in it's category. The current ES is outstanding above 3000 RPM but IMHO, it is very weak below that. In spite of all the things that car manufacturers do today to boost low end torque, I believe that there is some truth in the old adage "there is no replacement for displacement".
  • robert_s_22robert_s_22 Member Posts: 25
    A 3.3 Liter engine in the new ES330 (I suppose it would be called) sounds pretty resonable to me. The 3.0 Liter currently used is pretty much a LS/GS 400 with 2 less cylinders. So if you do the same with the new 4.3 Liter it would put the displacement as 3.225. Add VVTL-i (I think that's how it goes) and you could easily make 240hp, add to this a 5spd auto, and about the same weight and you're looking at probably 7.0 sec 0-60 times. I think that the current car is very responsive and a great motor buy as domettg says it could use some more torque. I think that that the "entry level" luxury class is so hotly contested that Lexus will have to justify the price. I wish they weren't so tight lipped, the release is less than a year off and I'd like to have some info. As always, if anyone gets pictures, hears more info, etc. Please post..
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    Does anyone know if I can get my ES300 at any Lexus dealership rather than at the dealership where I actually buy the car. Are service charges the same at all dealership?
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    aiman,

    Yes, the 2002 is going to share the Camry platform and will remain FWD.

    The media criticizes it one day, the next day they don't. For cost reasons, its going to remain on the Camry platform. The next RX300 might go a different route though. The 2002 ES300 will probably have even greater differentiation from the Camry than the current ES300/Camry already have.

    Supposedly, the 2002 ES300 is going to have a 3.2 Litre V6 engine. That's the word from the dealer.

    robert s 22,

    The current 3.0L used is in no way the V8 with 2 cylinders chopped off. The ES300 is a 60 degree V6 while the V8 is a 90 degree V8. On top of that they share no parts in common.

    liev,

    You can service your car at any dealer, but its usually better to service it where you buy it. Service charges usually do not vary too much between dealer. the problem is dealers usually dupe the customers into paying for services that don't need to be done. Take for example a 15K service: the dealer charges about $300 to $350 but if you get only what needs to be done to the car you would only pay about $200 to $250. The other $100 or so, the dealer usually charges you for checks, inspections, and the sort.
  • afinegoldafinegold Member Posts: 57
    Does anyone have a sound opinion on having an ES300 (mine is a 2000) serviced on the 5K vs. the 7.5K schedule listed in the owners manual?

    In my case, I live in a suburb of the Seattle, WA area, where the weather isn't severe, the roads aren't salted in winter, I don't haul a trailer, and drive at least 10 or more miles of mixed city streets and freeways most times I do drive. The salesman and service dept., probably quite naturally, recommend the 5K service schedule, but the owners manual seems to be pretty clear that these conditions call for the 7.5K schedule.

    I don't want to do more than I realistically need to given the $80-$90 service cost of each minimum servicing, but I don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish about it either.

    Any thoughts, anyone?
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    afinegold,

    Ah, go with the 5K interval. Not really much of a reason or anything, just my opinion. Although 7.5K won't harm your car in the long term anyway.
  • robert_s_22robert_s_22 Member Posts: 25
    I am just looking at the differences in displacement calculating it at dispalcement per cylinder (3.0 V6 =.5 liter per cylinder, and 4.0 V-8 =.5 per cylider) I thought they were almost the same motor, thank you, enigmaone, for pointing that out. I didn't mean to publish erroneous information. Have you seen the new LS430 ? Do you believe some of that technology will trickle down to the new ES300(ES320) ? I have been thinking and do you think they might base it on the new Avalon instead of the Camry, the Avalon is a little bigger, quieter. Any thoughts ?
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    I'm sure enigmaone is absolutely correct in that the 2002 ES3x0 will be based on the camry platform. Juat as a matter of clarification, there is really no such thing as a "Lexus platform". All the cars we know as Lexuses (Lexi?) here in the US are sold as various models of Toyota in Japan.

    IMHO, Toyota's formation of the Lexus brand as a higher-quality (and of course higher priced) product line was a marketing masterpiece. Unfortunately, The US Toyotas have lost their sterling reputation for being the "best" after Lexus was formed. That may have been the plan, who knows? I think that the only way to buy a new Toyota that is the equivalent of the pre-1995 Toyotas is to buy a Lexus. I use 1995 as a cut-off because that is the year Toyota began "decontenting" their vehicles.
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    Did someone talk about servicing the ES300 at a Toyota dealer? How safe is that? are Toyota dealer mechanics trained to also know how to service a Lexus as well as they are taught how to service a Toyota? Should I bring my car there because it is cheaper than if I bring it to a Lexus dealer?
  • afinegoldafinegold Member Posts: 57
    Another thing to consider is whether the Toyota dealer will even service your Lexus. I understand that in some (many?) markets, if there's a Lexus dealer near the Toyota dealer, or even in the general area, there's some sort of agreement between the two that calls for Toyota to refuse to service Lexus.

    Anybody know anything about this?
  • italstallionitalstallion Member Posts: 18
    Remember - a Lexus IS a Toyota (in Japan, there is no "Lexus"; they are all Toyotas). the local Toyota dealer here, services Lexus cars all the time.

    My local non-dealer mechanic (best Toyota mechanic that I've ever seen) also services Lexus. He insists there is no difference - and that any competent Toyota mechanic should also handle Lexus.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    robert s 22,

    Some of the features will definately trickle down to the ES300. Curtain airbags definately will. the laser guided cruise control may, a couple of years after intro. And of some others will also.

    The Avalon is based off the Camry platform. It is merely a stretched Camry. The ES300 won't grow to that big of a size, because then it would basically be close to the size of a LS430 and larger than a GS300. ALthough, the 2002 will definately be larger than the current ES300.

    liev,

    The ES300 any Toyota dealer can service. At least the major stuff like Engine, Transmission, suspension, exhaust, A/C systems, etc. Some of the finer things they may not be able to like HID lights, AVS suspension, radio components, interior components, but the major stuff any Toyota dealer can handle.

    afinegold,

    never heard of that. It may be true though. I wonder why a Toyota dealer would agree to that though, since it would work out well for the Toyota dealer.
  • turbotcturbotc Member Posts: 163
    when we bought our 99 ES, the general manager told me that in order to have a Lexus dealership, that dealer must have an established Toyota dealer. If you look around you will see that Lexus dealers are also own by someone with a Toyota dealership.
  • donald15donald15 Member Posts: 8
    I hope that someone can help me. My 2000ES has been allowing wind noise in through the passenger side window. I brought it into Lexus and they put an adhesive backing behind the door seal. This worked for about one week. Now they want to replace the whole rubber seal for both the front and rear passenger side. I was wondering if anyone else had the same problem and how they remedied it. Thanks in advance.
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    I have this problem too and it's only on the passenger side. (I don't know if there is any problem in the back). Please let me know how it can be fixed.

    liev
  • roymarroymar Member Posts: 3
    We have just ordered our first lexus ES300 for delivery next Thursday. The dealer has suggested their "Automotive Protection Service" package which consists of the following. 1.Paint protection. 2. Interior protection. 3. Rust inhibitor body panel protection. 4. Underbody protection. This total package will cost $999.00
    We live in southern Ontario, Canada. Does anyone know if any or all of these extras are important?
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    The "automotive protection service" does nothing but protects the lining of the dealer's pocket.

    This is one of those worthless add-ons that you absolutely don't need. Believe me, the car that you just purchased is an extraordinary automobile that stands on it's own, without all of those so-called "protections".

    Don't let the dealer steal your assumed good deal. I'm sure you can make better use of that $999. Beware!
  • roymarroymar Member Posts: 3
    Re; Protection Package information

    Thank you for your advice. This is a great forum for information and I appreciate your quick response!
  • donald15donald15 Member Posts: 8
    I was wondering if anyone else had a response to post #125. Some how I think that their are more ES300's with this problem and I would appreciate any thoughts on how to fix it or do I just have to listen to the annoying sound of wind on a $35000+ car. Thanks for any feedback.
  • vernlewvernlew Member Posts: 87
    Roy,

    Agree with Paul, those "protection packages" are jus another way to increase dealer profit. Typically used by lower line dealers, but some high end dealers obviously use this ploy also.

    You can do most of the stuff yourself ie wash/wax the paint, clean/condition leather, and vinyl protectant on interior plastics.

    If you really want additional rust/underbody protection...say, because you live near the ocean, you can get this done better/cheaper at a vendor who specializes in this type of protection.

    Vern
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    roymar,

    Yeah, don't do it.

    Underbody protection your car already comes with from the factory.

    Paint protection-Car already comes with a clearcoat finish unless you buy Black Onyx exterior.

    And how can you possibly protect the interior?
  • roymarroymar Member Posts: 3
    Thanks to all of you for your responses. We are going to take your advice and decline the package. We are looking forward to our new Lexus and if there are any questions in the future, we know where to get unbiased opinions.

    Thank you again,
    roymar
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    You won't regret it! Welcome to Lexus ownership.

    Feel free to visit here anytime.
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    Roymar,
    Looks like we're are the only unlucky ones who own a LEXUS with windnoise!!!
  • jlr2jlr2 Member Posts: 1
    I also have a problem with wind noise, just on the passenger side. I'm going for my 1 month check up tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any experience with a fix that has solved this problem.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Wind noise has been reported in past posts, in ES300 II. Reported fixes were to adjust the windows to get a better seal or replace the weatherstripping (I think). .... Assuming that is where your noise is coming from, and the door is closing and fitting properly, what else can you do? It is a glass against rubber seal.
    I myself do not have this problem, and think that this car is the quietest I've ever owned, including a few MBZs. Actually, it's been 3 months now since I bought mine. I should find the time to post my impressions, both good and bad.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Well, it was 3 months ago today that I bought my Beige/Ivory 2000 ES300 (VP, HID, 16” wheels, plus a few extras) for $31,323 +TTL. I was driving a 92 300E MBZ, a 91190E and an 84 380SL over the last couple of years, before the Lexus, and this was my first Lexus. We test drove the Infinity I30 and Q45 (used), the Acura TL, MBZ C230, and the Lexus LS400 (used), and were looking to spend $30K (+/-). What prompted the sale of the 300E was the cost of maintaining it. Otherwise, I never would have thought to sell it. I really, really loved that car, but $2,500-$3,000 per year was a bit much (and only 75K miles!) I think I made the ES300 decision because 1) I got a new car for $31K, 2) it drove more like the MBZ than the I30 or TL, 3) anticipated cost of maintenance, and 4) I was not impressed with the 2000 C-class, unless I spent considerably more than $30K on options. I did not wait for the redesigned 2001C-Class.

    I bought it in Carlsbad, CA (North San Diego Co). So far the dealer has been prompt, eager to make me happy, negotiable (paint mar) and has had a loaner car ready for me. I found them pretty easy to deal with, but I went through the Internet Sales Manager and negotiated the price over the phone, with information from internet car brokers and Costco.

    So anyway driving the ES300 around I’ve formulated some opinions, both good and bad about the car. Overall, it really is a nice car. The climate control actually works (unlike our MBZs). It is fairly nimble, but still has a nice ride. Some say too isolated, but I say “I don’t want to fell the expansion joints in the freeway.” It is not quite as stable as the 300E at high speeds, and (suspension wise) not quite as isolating over rough roads, especially at high speeds, bit it is better than most cars. The stock stereo is really nice. Instrument cluster is fairly well laid out. Most controls are pretty intuitive and ergonomic. I would like the seat controls up on the door though. EVERYTHING seems to work. Also, this is absolutely the quietest car I have ever owned. Way more quite than my MBZs, and I believe more quiet than the C class, though I’ve only drove one of those for 2 days as a dealer loaner.

    This is minor, but the way the window and door directs water though the door panel in these water “channels” rather than keeping the water out in the first place. The door jam and window well get’s way too wet when you wash the car.

    The quality of the paint is (in my opinion) fair but not great, but not poor either. There is a blemish in my paint about the size of a half-dollar were the metal flake looks slightly different. You have to be under just the right light to see it. I had the car for 5 weeks before I noticed it, and in the end, the dealer gave me chrome wheels to make up for it (he would have repainted, I said no … I asked, new car?, he said no…. then he asked, “what can I do to make you feel good about this? …. And voila, the wheels). But also after only 3700 miles, I’ve got 5 chips in the paint on the forward part of the hood from road debris. Not major. About the size of the head of a pin, but all the way through the paint to the black undercoat. Touch-up paint already. With my 300E it took years to get 5 paint chips. So anyway, my impression is that the paint is not a tough as with the MBZs. Also, a bush next to my driveway scratched the clear coat and the rear passenger window glass. I parked next to that bush for years with the MBZs and never a mark. I mean, we’re talking soft flexible leaves and twigs that might leave some rosin to be cleaned, but scratches?

    Overall, I think the exterior durability is the only real complaint I’ve got. Everything else is more along the lines of the trade-offs between various cars, in search of that “perfect” car for no more than $30K. Would I recommend the car to a family member or friend? ….. Yes I think I would, with full disclosure of my likes and dislikes.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Finally got to use your MPG formula on a trip to San Antonio (from Houston) today.

    I was happy with the 28 mpg that my 96 ES cranked out with a steady cruising speed of 72 MPH and no A/C. Is that a normal number?

    I've also got to say that my 4.5 year old car seems to be getting better with age. Currently 97K miles and still extremely quiet and dependable.

    Of course, I've had regular maintenance done and keep it in showroom condition inside and out...but I'm so impressed with the performance of this car, that I've postponed my plans to purchase a new one for another year or two.

    Sure, it's the older style, but who cares? It's the most reliable car that I've ever owned. I sincerely believe that it's just getting broken in.

    What service is necessary at 100K, Enigma? I changed the timing belt at 85K...anything else to think about?

    Thanks for all of your expert help. You are the Lexus bomb!
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    Rolloman.

    See, it worked!!

    28 MPG is about right. My parent's 95 ES300 gets about that at 92K miles on highway trips.

    Did you do a service at 90K? If not, go ahead and do it at 100K. Basically if you did skip the major parts of the 90K service go ahead and do trans. fluid, diff. fluid., coolant, brake fluid, tire rotation if needed, oil & filter, have the bushings lubed. There maybe some other fluids I forgot, but that's about it.
  • inkyinky Member Posts: 370
    I had a 97 ES 300 and found a peculiar wind noise with driver window completely rolled up, but if I tapped power switch and dropped window tiny fraction the seal was perfect and no noise. Funny thing my wifes 98 camry V-6 has the exact same flaw. I have not pursued either under warranty and have sold ES for an RX 300 which is nice also with no such problem. Let me know if that little trick works for anyone. I may pursue dealer remedy with the V-6 Camry as we will keep for a while since I consider it a cheap alternative to much more costly, better equiped but somewhat similiar ES300.
    INKY
  • jake69jake69 Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone out there had any experience with internet buying services such as autobytel or carsdirect? How do these work? Is it as simple as it looks? I'm looking for a good price on a 2001 Lexus ES300. The carsdirect price seems pretty good. Is there anything to watch out for, any hidden costs or anything? Thanks for any information you can give me.
  • turbotcturbotc Member Posts: 163
    maybe you should change air filter, pvc valve, wiper blades, fuel filter too if they haven't been changed yet.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    Thanks for the suggestions on the 100K service.

    I had all of that work done at 85K. Don't go to the dealer as I'm not to keen on overpaying. Have a friend who is a ASE Master Mechanic who works for BMW. We've worked out an arrangement and he's very thorough and knowledgeable, just like you guys.

    She's smooth as silk.

    Enigmaone....anyway to squeeze more gas mileage out of her? I use Mobil One Synthetic Oil and change every 7500K.

    Thanks again!
  • lievliev Member Posts: 93
    Believe me you can get better deal on your own than going through car buying services. I got mine 2001 ES for 32,2 with heated seats and wood steering wheel (as the two major added options). I don't think the price is all that great but at least I know I am not realy ripped off. The price should be 1500 above invoice and if they want any advertising fee added in there try to negotiate as much as you can. 200 seems to be reasonable as advised by edmunds.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    I can't think of any other ways to get greater gas mileage. Keeping tires inflated properly, keeping the car tuned up properly, and driving calmly is about all you can do to get maximum gas mileage.
  • inkyinky Member Posts: 370
    Use 0w30 synthetic. I use it for exc economy.
    INKY
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    When I was shopping 3 months ago, I contacted several on-line brokers(autobytel.com, carorder.com, carsdirect.com,greenlight.com, driveoff.com and invoicedealers.com) as well as my credit union and Costco.com (Priceclub). I found the prices to vary considerably, and the price was not always inclusive of the same items. For instance, the Costco price included delivery fees and advertizing fees. The Carorder price did not include any fees. I found the Carorder price and the Costco price to be the best of all of them and in the end, I used the Costco price of $31,328 +TTL for a 2000 VP, HID,16" wheels+locks, mats, etc. I am certain that I was not going to get any lower than this on my own. I might have saved a few hundred more going through carorder, but I was seduced by the car sitting on the participating Costco dealer's lot, and carorder could not guarantee me a car (being year end), they were going to go out and find one.

    One thing that contacting the on-line brokers will do for you is to get you in contact with someone at the dealership who is often times a "fleet" sales manager. I think it really takes some of the hassle out of the buying process and many of them will negotiate over the phone or by e-mail. Also, you will have a lot of information prior to making your decision.
  • smheyingsmheying Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for your input on purchasing a 2000 ES300. I drove the ES300 Platinum off the lot last Friday right at dealer invoice with wheel locks and trunk mats thrown in. I did not go with the mainenance plan. It sounded like an awful lot for what amounted to a few oil changes and "inspections". By the way I do love this car.
  • turbotcturbotc Member Posts: 163
    Make sure your car is aligned properly as well. Don't step on it when light turns green. Don't brake too hard.
  • donald15donald15 Member Posts: 8
    I dropped my car off at the Lexus dealer today (see post 12). The mechanic said that they are going to replace the rubber molding on the passenger side both front and back. They are also going to adjust the windows to fit the new rubber seal. I got the impression that I was not the first ES-300 owner to have this problem. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if they have the solution on how to fix it. If the dealer does not solve the problem this time I will probably call LEXUS and complain. I spent $36000+ on this car and I expect it to not have any annoying wind noises. Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  • rollomanrolloman Member Posts: 64
    What is ow30, Inky? What brand is it? Cost more than Mobil One?

    How much better is your mileage with it?

    I think that's enough questions. Hey, thanks for the suggestion.
This discussion has been closed.

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