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Comments
The 2yr. "free" maintanance plan is unique to that dealer. I'm sure some other dealers offer it but you are still paying for it. And my suggestion would be to find out exactly what that 2yr. free maintanance program includes. By that I mean does it only include oil changes for 2 years. Or does it also include the 15K service which regularly runs about $350 to $400.
Enigmaone, say it ain't so! I hope the Texas salesman was mistaken.
Any pix of the 02 ES yet anyone?
Thanks....
According to the maintenance plan that the dealer gave to me, it includes all the service up to the 25,000 mile mark. It also includes pick up and delivery service, loaner car and roadside assistance. They say that it essentially adds about $600 to the invoice price (about 2%). How does that stack up to non-Houston dealer service.
What do you think? Is it worth the extra $$$$
As Enigma pointed out some of those "major" services are fairly pricey...so I would say the extra $600 bucks is reasonable. The pick up/delivery, loaner, and roadside assistance are pretty much standard Lexus bennies. Plus, if this also includes all the 5K oil changes...this sounds like a good dealer incentive, which actually does cost the dealer some extra bucks. Sounds like a good deal to me...If it doesn't to you...then negotiate some freebies...like some Lexus accessories, a car cover, window tinting, etc.
Good Luck,
Vern
Well, you're really not getting much free with that $600 addition.
Consider Lexus pays for your first service at 5K miles. After that you have:
10K service: $90~
15K service: $350-$400
20K service: $90
25K service: $90
Basically you're paying the same. Your dealer may even have cheaper 10K, 20K and 25K services. My dealer charges $90 at 10K, 20K, 25K intervals for what is basically a oil, filter change, and tire rotation. You can get that done at a Toyota dealer for $35. And without the ridiculous "checks" that Lexus dealer does at the 15K mark, that service will easily run you about $250, and maybe less.
I wouldn't expect the 2002 ES300 to start at $40K. I would fully expect the 2002 ES300s price to be basically where the 2001 leaves off. which means at about $32K. I wouldn't doubt a loaded ES300 coming close to $40K though. HIDs should become standard, the Es300 should have side curtain airbags front & back, as well as a standard CD-changer. The major options will remain the leather trim, moonroof, upgraded M. Levinson stereo, and of course the navigation system will be available. And I'm sure some new options will come and I would say the AVS suspension option will probably decease because of low demand for the current one. This ES300 will be based on a totally new platform, so its hard to accurately predict what size it will be how it will ride etc.
is the new ES going to use the next generation Camry platform or will it use its own or other Lexus platform (eg. GS or IS)?
I was thinking since many anti-Lexus and the media criticizing the reputation of ES as a luxury car for using the lower class/less prestigious Camry platform, maybe the ES (and even the future RX) ought to use a modified IS or GS platform, instead. Hence, no more remarks about the ES as a souped up Camry, etc. ,and Lexus fans don't have to explain that 78% or so ES parts are unique etc. In fact, doing may may even improve the car's image just like the Passat which uses the higher class/ore prestigious Audi A4 platform.
I personally don't have anything against using the Camry platform since it is a very crashworthy platform. Anywa, just a thought.
Yes, the 2002 is going to share the Camry platform and will remain FWD.
The media criticizes it one day, the next day they don't. For cost reasons, its going to remain on the Camry platform. The next RX300 might go a different route though. The 2002 ES300 will probably have even greater differentiation from the Camry than the current ES300/Camry already have.
Supposedly, the 2002 ES300 is going to have a 3.2 Litre V6 engine. That's the word from the dealer.
robert s 22,
The current 3.0L used is in no way the V8 with 2 cylinders chopped off. The ES300 is a 60 degree V6 while the V8 is a 90 degree V8. On top of that they share no parts in common.
liev,
You can service your car at any dealer, but its usually better to service it where you buy it. Service charges usually do not vary too much between dealer. the problem is dealers usually dupe the customers into paying for services that don't need to be done. Take for example a 15K service: the dealer charges about $300 to $350 but if you get only what needs to be done to the car you would only pay about $200 to $250. The other $100 or so, the dealer usually charges you for checks, inspections, and the sort.
In my case, I live in a suburb of the Seattle, WA area, where the weather isn't severe, the roads aren't salted in winter, I don't haul a trailer, and drive at least 10 or more miles of mixed city streets and freeways most times I do drive. The salesman and service dept., probably quite naturally, recommend the 5K service schedule, but the owners manual seems to be pretty clear that these conditions call for the 7.5K schedule.
I don't want to do more than I realistically need to given the $80-$90 service cost of each minimum servicing, but I don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish about it either.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Ah, go with the 5K interval. Not really much of a reason or anything, just my opinion. Although 7.5K won't harm your car in the long term anyway.
IMHO, Toyota's formation of the Lexus brand as a higher-quality (and of course higher priced) product line was a marketing masterpiece. Unfortunately, The US Toyotas have lost their sterling reputation for being the "best" after Lexus was formed. That may have been the plan, who knows? I think that the only way to buy a new Toyota that is the equivalent of the pre-1995 Toyotas is to buy a Lexus. I use 1995 as a cut-off because that is the year Toyota began "decontenting" their vehicles.
Anybody know anything about this?
My local non-dealer mechanic (best Toyota mechanic that I've ever seen) also services Lexus. He insists there is no difference - and that any competent Toyota mechanic should also handle Lexus.
Some of the features will definately trickle down to the ES300. Curtain airbags definately will. the laser guided cruise control may, a couple of years after intro. And of some others will also.
The Avalon is based off the Camry platform. It is merely a stretched Camry. The ES300 won't grow to that big of a size, because then it would basically be close to the size of a LS430 and larger than a GS300. ALthough, the 2002 will definately be larger than the current ES300.
liev,
The ES300 any Toyota dealer can service. At least the major stuff like Engine, Transmission, suspension, exhaust, A/C systems, etc. Some of the finer things they may not be able to like HID lights, AVS suspension, radio components, interior components, but the major stuff any Toyota dealer can handle.
afinegold,
never heard of that. It may be true though. I wonder why a Toyota dealer would agree to that though, since it would work out well for the Toyota dealer.
liev
We live in southern Ontario, Canada. Does anyone know if any or all of these extras are important?
This is one of those worthless add-ons that you absolutely don't need. Believe me, the car that you just purchased is an extraordinary automobile that stands on it's own, without all of those so-called "protections".
Don't let the dealer steal your assumed good deal. I'm sure you can make better use of that $999. Beware!
Thank you for your advice. This is a great forum for information and I appreciate your quick response!
Agree with Paul, those "protection packages" are jus another way to increase dealer profit. Typically used by lower line dealers, but some high end dealers obviously use this ploy also.
You can do most of the stuff yourself ie wash/wax the paint, clean/condition leather, and vinyl protectant on interior plastics.
If you really want additional rust/underbody protection...say, because you live near the ocean, you can get this done better/cheaper at a vendor who specializes in this type of protection.
Vern
Yeah, don't do it.
Underbody protection your car already comes with from the factory.
Paint protection-Car already comes with a clearcoat finish unless you buy Black Onyx exterior.
And how can you possibly protect the interior?
Thank you again,
roymar
Feel free to visit here anytime.
Looks like we're are the only unlucky ones who own a LEXUS with windnoise!!!
I myself do not have this problem, and think that this car is the quietest I've ever owned, including a few MBZs. Actually, it's been 3 months now since I bought mine. I should find the time to post my impressions, both good and bad.
I bought it in Carlsbad, CA (North San Diego Co). So far the dealer has been prompt, eager to make me happy, negotiable (paint mar) and has had a loaner car ready for me. I found them pretty easy to deal with, but I went through the Internet Sales Manager and negotiated the price over the phone, with information from internet car brokers and Costco.
So anyway driving the ES300 around I’ve formulated some opinions, both good and bad about the car. Overall, it really is a nice car. The climate control actually works (unlike our MBZs). It is fairly nimble, but still has a nice ride. Some say too isolated, but I say “I don’t want to fell the expansion joints in the freeway.” It is not quite as stable as the 300E at high speeds, and (suspension wise) not quite as isolating over rough roads, especially at high speeds, bit it is better than most cars. The stock stereo is really nice. Instrument cluster is fairly well laid out. Most controls are pretty intuitive and ergonomic. I would like the seat controls up on the door though. EVERYTHING seems to work. Also, this is absolutely the quietest car I have ever owned. Way more quite than my MBZs, and I believe more quiet than the C class, though I’ve only drove one of those for 2 days as a dealer loaner.
This is minor, but the way the window and door directs water though the door panel in these water “channels” rather than keeping the water out in the first place. The door jam and window well get’s way too wet when you wash the car.
The quality of the paint is (in my opinion) fair but not great, but not poor either. There is a blemish in my paint about the size of a half-dollar were the metal flake looks slightly different. You have to be under just the right light to see it. I had the car for 5 weeks before I noticed it, and in the end, the dealer gave me chrome wheels to make up for it (he would have repainted, I said no I asked, new car?, he said no . then he asked, “what can I do to make you feel good about this? . And voila, the wheels). But also after only 3700 miles, I’ve got 5 chips in the paint on the forward part of the hood from road debris. Not major. About the size of the head of a pin, but all the way through the paint to the black undercoat. Touch-up paint already. With my 300E it took years to get 5 paint chips. So anyway, my impression is that the paint is not a tough as with the MBZs. Also, a bush next to my driveway scratched the clear coat and the rear passenger window glass. I parked next to that bush for years with the MBZs and never a mark. I mean, we’re talking soft flexible leaves and twigs that might leave some rosin to be cleaned, but scratches?
Overall, I think the exterior durability is the only real complaint I’ve got. Everything else is more along the lines of the trade-offs between various cars, in search of that “perfect” car for no more than $30K. Would I recommend the car to a family member or friend? .. Yes I think I would, with full disclosure of my likes and dislikes.
I was happy with the 28 mpg that my 96 ES cranked out with a steady cruising speed of 72 MPH and no A/C. Is that a normal number?
I've also got to say that my 4.5 year old car seems to be getting better with age. Currently 97K miles and still extremely quiet and dependable.
Of course, I've had regular maintenance done and keep it in showroom condition inside and out...but I'm so impressed with the performance of this car, that I've postponed my plans to purchase a new one for another year or two.
Sure, it's the older style, but who cares? It's the most reliable car that I've ever owned. I sincerely believe that it's just getting broken in.
What service is necessary at 100K, Enigma? I changed the timing belt at 85K...anything else to think about?
Thanks for all of your expert help. You are the Lexus bomb!
See, it worked!!
28 MPG is about right. My parent's 95 ES300 gets about that at 92K miles on highway trips.
Did you do a service at 90K? If not, go ahead and do it at 100K. Basically if you did skip the major parts of the 90K service go ahead and do trans. fluid, diff. fluid., coolant, brake fluid, tire rotation if needed, oil & filter, have the bushings lubed. There maybe some other fluids I forgot, but that's about it.
INKY
I had all of that work done at 85K. Don't go to the dealer as I'm not to keen on overpaying. Have a friend who is a ASE Master Mechanic who works for BMW. We've worked out an arrangement and he's very thorough and knowledgeable, just like you guys.
She's smooth as silk.
Enigmaone....anyway to squeeze more gas mileage out of her? I use Mobil One Synthetic Oil and change every 7500K.
Thanks again!
INKY
One thing that contacting the on-line brokers will do for you is to get you in contact with someone at the dealership who is often times a "fleet" sales manager. I think it really takes some of the hassle out of the buying process and many of them will negotiate over the phone or by e-mail. Also, you will have a lot of information prior to making your decision.
How much better is your mileage with it?
I think that's enough questions. Hey, thanks for the suggestion.