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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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    aceking2000aceking2000 Member Posts: 37
    I have an issue here. Mark Levinson is a great audio system. I think everyone agrees on that. However, because it is so powerful, sometimes the interior parts can't handle the bass. Did anyone of you experience the same issue? In my car, when the bass is really loud, I can hear some noise coming from the right passenger side. It sounds like some interior parts are shaking because of the bass. Under normal circumstances they are ok. Tk_Det, do you have the same issue? If anyone of you have the same experience please respond. thanks.
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    kelnshekelnshe Member Posts: 7
    Someone is selling some 16" GS300 rims with 215/60 R16 OEM tires on eBay. I have a '98 ES300 and I think they will fit, but I'm not sure. Anyone ever tried to fit tires of this size on an ES300? Will there be any clearance issues, and if so, are there any alternatives? The rims and tires are in excellent condition, and I'd like to bid on them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    I read way back in September '01 that '02ES made in Jan '02 and on will have adjustable brake and gas pedals. Just curious if any of you who own a newer '02 ES have noticed and/or tinkered with this feature.
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    texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    I've driven two loaners now and I noticed the problem in one just as bad as mine and in the other I didn't really notice it. One thing I have noticed is a lot of people will accept things that are subpar just because they don't want to deal with the hassel of getting things fixed. So I imagine many people are having the same problem but just dealing with it. I guess I'm not one to settle, and like you have considered selling the car. A brand new car shouldn't have these problems. I've seen the new Infinity G-35 and don't know much about it, but sure think it looks good.

    I will say that the dealer and Lexus recognize the problem so some others are complaining. I guess I'll have to deal with it for now cuz I don't want to buy another car. To protect others, I'll spread as much bad publicity as I can. The more trouble it causes Lexus, the sooner they will move on it.
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    sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    kelnshe - look up your car on the Tire Rack web site under wheels and if the rim is listed, check what size tire your car would require.

    Transmission - I've got a 2000 ES so am not experiencing your problem, but was just wondering. When I first had my 2000, shifting wasn't that great for my driving habits. I found that for anything except high speed driving, I liked to keep the overdrive off. It made the shifting quicker and at higher rpms. After driving around town like that for a while I noticed that the car was more responsive when I forgot to switch the overdrive off. It seemed that the car "learned". Perhaps this will not help the 2002 models, but it might be worth a try.
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    capt386capt386 Member Posts: 2
    I have 6000 miles on my es300 and I agree the transmission is junk. I am ready to get rid of the vehicle. does anyone know if there is a way we can register our complaints to Lexus, other than complaint to service managers.
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    texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Lexus customer satisfaction is 800-255-3987. I have called and complained. In fact I said I wanted my money back. They told me that they had never heard of any problem with the transmission and that I would have to take the issue up with the dealer where I bought the car. So much for Lexus customer satisfaction. Take note that if you have a very serious problem with your car, you might as well have bought it from a loser used car sales lot.

    Anyway, I would appreciate it if all would called the customer satisfaction number and complain. The more hell we raise the sooner action will be taken. I need to call the dealer and give them a deadline and start taking it up with the lemon law in Texas. Again, I would encourage others to do the same. Contact the press as well.

    I really don't want to get another car, but I also don't want to die in a car crash being rear ended or smashed in an intersection because I had no power to get through a bad situation.
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    sliangsliang Member Posts: 50
    I also had the similar problem when I listened to the music with lots of deep bass. The noise seemed to come from the rear passenger side door, but can not confirm on that.
    I don't want to go to the dealer for fixing such small problem because they might have to open up the door cover and mess up something else. So I simply tune down the volume with those kinds of music, it works for me.
    The ML system is just so much nicer than the Bose system in my wife's Acura RL.
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    sliangsliang Member Posts: 50
    I can feel your frustration and even anger with the transmission problem of your new ES. I think your transmission is much worse than mine. My transmission was not very smooth and responsive when I first got it in earlier February, but it was not so bad that I would complain it to Lexus customer satisfaction. I did complain it to the service rep. at the local dealer when I did the 1K service, the service rep. didn't seem to know what I was talking about.
    Now after trying 5 months of driving (almost 9K miles), I can say my transmission is much, much smoother and responsive, and I have learned how to drive it instead the "intelligent" transmission learned how I drove. Maybe we learned each other.
    I totally agree with your point that the new ES should not have such transmission with so much headache for their owners, especially this is a Lexus. I remember under the Lexus logo, they also say "pursuing the perfection", the quality of the ES transmission is not perfect at all, and Lexus should fix it right away.
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    tk_dettk_det Member Posts: 21
    I really haven't had a problem but I may not have it cranked up as loud as you. The only time I had it REALLY REALLY loud was listening to a Santana CD while starting out for home on a Sunday morning while on vacation last month in Virginia.

    Me and the better half were rocking along to the beat just cruising and it was as if the band was in the car with no distortion whatsoever. In fact, the audio system was so perfect that I didn't hear the siren and only realized that I had been popped until he lit me up. True story.

    Moral: keep the volume and the speed down!
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    sopecreeksopecreek Member Posts: 203
    I share the same experience as you. For the same reason, I was driving with the overdrive off from time to time and felt the response improved to my like. But I doubt my 2001 ES (or earlier years) actually has that "learning" feature. Maybe it's I who is "learning".

    Q: What are disadvantages of driving with the overdrive off? I guess mileage will drop...
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    hoorayhooray Member Posts: 15
    I have only had my new 2002 ES 300 for 4 weeks and I have just hit the 1,000 mile break-in point. Therefore, I haven't driven it very hard yet, but I have noticed the few times that I have tried to pass someone quickly at highway speeds (50 - 65 mph) that the car is not very responsive. I have a 91 Acura Legend with 89,000 miles and 200 hp that is much faster. Even my 1996 Infiniti I30 with 62,000 miles and 190 hp that I sold to buy the Lexus was faster at passing at highway speeds. I have not had a safety issue yet with the transmission, but for those that have, a guaranteed way to get the proper attention is to report it to the NHTSA. I believe you can do it on-line at NHTSA.gov.

    On a less serious note, I am taking my car in for the 30 day checkup next week. Have any of you noticed any of the following:

    1) Auto climate control stays in AC recirculate too long and then stays on a high fan speed too long and then fluctuates from a low to high fan speed.

    2) Car runs rough the first 30 seconds after it is started for the first time of the day. Sometimes it runs rough at idle. The idle speed at a stoplight with the AC running is 500 rpm.

    3) The rear floor mats slide around. The rear carpet has a ring for a snap, but the floormats have no snap on their bottom to fit into the ring.

    4) The computer Avg MPG is at least 2 MPG lower than actual. I fill it up when the computer Range says 50 - 75 miles left, but the car still has at least 4 or 5 gallons left.

    I know these aren't serious issues, but I expect my new Lexus to operate better than my old Infiniti and so far that isn't the case. But the Lexus does have more safety features and a better and quieter ride. But then so does a Camry XLE for $6,000 less than the Lexus.

    Good luck to those of you with the serious transmission problems and thanks in advance to any comments regarding my "little bugs".
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I visited relatives in Michigan over the 4th and test drove an ES300. The transmission felt identical to mine.

    I think that the only difference between those who do not experience the problem and those who do lies in the way they perceive things.

    I am convinced that the "problem" is a design problem and not associated with individual vehicles. I am also convinced that were I to drive lenscap's and aceking2000's vehicles, I would experience their transmissions as behaving exactly as mine does.
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    To correct one of your previous mails - I am NOT one of those considering selling my car. I LOVE my car and the transmission is not much more than a nuisance to me. Certainly, I do not feel delays in the one second area.

    As far as I know, those on the board who have expressed a desire to sell their cars are rtorreca, yourself and capt386.
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    neuroguyneuroguy Member Posts: 34
    I have been experiencing two of the little bugs you mentioned on my 4/02 build ES300 and have gotten this feedback from my service manager via my salesman:

    #1 - The A/C fan speed fluctuation after coming out of recirculation mode. I don't think it stays on high speed or on recirc. too long, but the fan speed does vary too often and noticeably after coming out of recirc mode. The feedback I got from the dealer - "the Air is fluctuating because it is automatically trying to keep the car at the temperature that you have set. It comes on and off repeatedly and this is normal to keep the car at that level. It's better to not use the automatic all the time. This will prevent you from having that come on and off all the time. But there is nothing wrong with it." I was driving today, and noticed this did not occur, so it must be a combination of circumstances that comes together to cause this.

    #2 - The rough idle at starting. The dealer's service manager said this is a known issue, that Lexus is working on it, but there is no fix available yet. Probably they just have to set the idle about 100 rpm higher. Like you, it lasts about half a minute with me, and I've found it goes away if you just give it a little gas.
    I have not investigated #3 as I haven't had any rear passengers, nor #4 as I don't let my car get below 1/4 of a tank, and usually fill it when it gets below 1/2.

    As for the "transmission problem" I have not encountered it at all, but it just may be my driving style doesn't elicit the issue, or I haven't been in a situation that does.

    I have to say that the little bugs mentioned above have in no way distracted from the enjoyment and driving pleasure I'm getting out of this car, and my totally positive experience with Hendrick Lexus here in Charlotte, NC - especially since I've just come out of a horrible experience that was my Jaguar X-Type, and the car before that, an Audi A4 that was also kind of disappointing.
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    fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    The August issue of Car and Driver, on page 78 says:

    -----------------------------------------------------

    "The new U150E electronically controlled five-speed transmission is the exact same box as the U140E four-speed installed in the old ES300, but with revised clutching that provides an extra overdrive gear. The only problem is that now that it has two overdrives, the transmission is reluctant to give them up.

    More urgent downshifts would be welcome (although it may affect the heart rate) via a sport/economy button and some extra lines of software code. These buttons used to be on almost every Toyota product. where did they go?"

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Sounds like a built in problem that Toyota will have to find a solution for. That is unless they decide to consider it "normal".

    I don't own an ES300. I'm just an interested bystander that thought you might find that useful.
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    jmezzjmezz Member Posts: 36
    can anyone offer help on lease for 36-39 months,zero cap cost just inceptions, 15k/yr on es300. is it possible to lease for no more than 500/month

    thanks
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    bexleybexley Member Posts: 10
    After reading several posts about 02 ES300 transmission problems, I really went out to test mine by simulating conditions explained by other town hall posters. To be honest, I did experience what I would call a slight hesitation (something less than a second in duration) before the jolt of power, but nothing that I would consider abnormal myself. I mean no disrespect to Texas83 or other townhall members, but maybe it really is perception issue here. I also drive an LS400 and would agree that there is a longer period of hesitation in the ES300 transmission before downshifting into traffic, but nothing that has ever distracted myself or my wife in 3000 miles of ownership. To be honest, it really wouldn't have been something that I would have thought of had it not been brought to my attention through this board.

    On a different note, I am still thoroughly enjoying our ES300, and have faithfully put 3000 miles on it (well, actually the wife mostly has). I recently took the Lexus to the dealership for the 3k service. The dealership was busy, so they let me have a GS430 loaner for the day. I have to say I am left very impressed with that vehicle. I found the GS430 to be sporty and more "executive" then the slightly more smooth and family oriented ES300. Surprisingly, I also found the GS430 interior to be smaller or at least more personal than the ES300. But, the power delivery was nothing short of addictive, and the sporty handling was better. I found the ride quality of the GS430 to be about as smooth as the ES300, but not as smooth as the LS400. Also, the Mark Levinson system sounds just as good, if not better in the GS430 than my ES300. Overall, when it comes time to replace my LS400 in the next year or so, I may be looking the way of the GS430.
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    otownotown Member Posts: 1
    I am new to the "Town Hall" website and the reason I came aboard was to find out if anyone else was having the problems I am having with my 02ES300. I purchased the vehicle in March02 and I took my vehicle in for the 1k mile service and I also mentioned a problem I was having with the car "shaking" when I start up he ignition after not being driven overnight and idleing rather roughly. Well being that I had already driven it to the dealership here in Orlando, I assume they could not duplicate the problem because again, it only happens when I start the ignition after it has not been driven overnight or any longer than that. Well they told me that there was nothing wrong but was normal because of some "new emission system" in the vehicle. I know now that I was told that just to "pacify" me but I took the car home thinking that was the case. Anyway, another month or so went by and I noticed the problem even more. Sometimes I work at home and I may not drive the car for a whole day and when I was ready to drive it, the shaking got worse when I started the engine.

    Well my husband also experienced the problem and not only that, we also heard a "grinding" noise on 2 separate occassions when we started the ignition. Now I knew this was not normal, especially for a Lexus. We decided that this car is going back to them and they better not tell me some sob story about the emission system this time.

    Well this time I told them to keep the car for a few days and do not start the car until the 2nd day and they will definitely see the problem. Well sure enough, they did duplicate it and after me calling them (because I must say the Service Dept's Customer Service at Lexus of Orlando is not the best and "follow up" is not in their vocabulary), they informed me that it was the "FUEL REGULATOR" and they had to order the part. Well get this, the part was no where in the United States and had to come from Tokyo, Japan and that it would be about 7-10 days before it came in. Now they did put me in a loaner vehicle and I just kept it until my care was fixed 7-10 days later. Well that was not the case. I ended up being without my car for 3 weeks and 1 day total. Yes, I had a loaner and I should have been ok with that, but this was unacceptable. They could never tell me the status of the part and that it could be held up in customs and that is beyond their control. So, I called the Customer Satisfaction line and I must say they guy there was very nice and agreed to follow up with me but he also let me know that if it is held up in customs that there is nothing they can do.

    Ok, to make this long story short. The part finally came in 3 weeks later and 5 calls to the dealership (by me of course, because again, they NEVER follow up). Well they put the part on my car and guess what..you got it, it is still shaking at start up. Now I am really upset. This is totally unacceptable, embarrasing and a major inconveneince. We are calling them back first thing in the morning to find out our next option. Based on the Lemon Law here in Florida, they have 3 attempts to fix the car and then we go through arbitration. They have 1 final attempt because they have had 2 chances so far. I do not want to go through this hassle but I refuse to be in a car over $30k and experience this problem so soon. I only have 4k miles on it because I didn't have it for 3 weeks to drive. I don't want this to affect any long term problems with the car and that is our biggest concern. I am totally disappointed!
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    bexley - I'm also looking to replace my LS with a GS. Look for the 2004 GS...that's when the new design is coming out!

    fwatson - Thanks for the article snip from C&D. I'll have to check that issue out.
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    tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Those who own the ES300 and have read the Car & Driver review of the car (August issue), what do you think? I read the review quickly, but the long and short of it seemed to be that the car is BORING: novocaine for the senses. Do you agree? Is it so wrong to make a car quiet?
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    aceking2000aceking2000 Member Posts: 37
    Hi! Atoews:

    So how do you think of Michigan? I live in Michigan myself and work in Detroit area.

    I think you could say transmission as a perception issue and I have no way of telling you how you would feel in my car. If you have driven a Honda Accord before..I can guarantee you that the transmission in the ES300 is much better than the one in Honda. I think if you are used to drive American cars with big engines and high emissions - maybe you will feel that this car is less powerful. Also this car uses different transmission and if you are not used to it then it might be the case.

    The discussion over transmission has been going on for a while and seriously I think you people made your points but for people like me and tk_det, there is no way that we could say that there was a problem on the transmission. I experienced no hesitation..(maybe .5 sec?) whenever I want my car to downshift. I just took my car for 1000 mile service and the trasmission is even smoother now.

    I really wish you could try at least a couple cars before you say that is the "perception" issue. Maybe it is...but I do hope that you get what you actually paid for.

    The only thing that slightly bothers me is the small noise coming from the friction of the interior materials...any thoughts on that?
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    There was a Technical Service Bulleting released to Lexus dealers in Dec. 01 concerning Interior squeaks and rattles. I'll ask my dealer to see it when I go in for service, and see if it says anything useful.
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    aceking2000aceking2000 Member Posts: 37
    If it was released last December, then it's been 6 months. Are they going to do anything about it? By the way, do you experience the similar issues? Please let us know what they say on the bulletin. Thanks.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I thought the Car and Driver review was actually quite favorable. The editors clearly state that this is not the car for them, but they do a good job of detailing the car's many merits as a luxury sedan, offering much praise. They also note that sporting Lexus consumers have the IS300 (and GS) to choose from. Check out Pati Maki's "Counterpoint"- I thought that summed up the car perfectly.
    ~alpha
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    sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Been out over the holiday. I really haven't noticed that keeping the OD off around town makes much difference at all in my gas milage. It kind of suprised me.
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Regarding Michigan - I am "from" there. Lived in Saginaw, Jackson, Kalamazoo, Detroit and Livonia. My father now lives in Flushing, one sister lives in Flint, another in Troy and another in Lapeer.

    I think I and others have beaten a dead horse with the transmission issue and I will probably not post any more about it until I drive more vehicles. I do hope Lexus fixes it, but oh, well.

    I am happy with the car otherwise and do not have rattle/squeak problems.
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    mjs4mjs4 Member Posts: 8
    I've had the car for 7 months and love the car. Last week I started to get a slight vibration in the steering wheel when I would just lightly push on the brake. If I push on the brake harder it stops. At no other time does this happen. Any Ideas??? I will call the dealer tommorrow. If any one else knows what this could be please post. Otherwise I love the car. I do notice a little of the tranny problems posted, but nothing serious and it has gotten better with time. Love the ML system and the nav. Very easy to use.
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    rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    My previous car was a 99 Accord EX-V6 and I have to disagree with you that the es300 tranny is better. The Accord could be going at 80mph and still pass another vehicle without any hesitation nor feeling the downshift. With the ES300, I am afraid to pass any cars due to the hesitation problem. If you do try to accelerate, the downshift is so harsh that the car actually jumps forward when it finally does. Even a half-second hesitation can result in a very serious accident. You could either hit the car in front of you or get rear-ended by the one behind.

    Off the line the accord v6 is also much quicker. Perhaps you are talking about the 4-cyl version?

    Even my friend's $22K 4-cyl Solara has a better transmission than this $35K lexus.

    I hope they can add those missing lines of code to the tranny software/firmware soon.
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    neuroguyneuroguy Member Posts: 34
    My best guess would be a warped brake rotor. Or, at least something is loose, out of alignment or out of round with your front brakes.
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    aceking2000aceking2000 Member Posts: 37
    Hi! Rtorreca:

    I had a Accord V6 so I know what you were talking about. It is a really powerful car I agree but my Lexus can still pass others easlity at 80mph just like the accord does. I know from 0-60mph Accord is faster but please also note that Lexus is heavier too.

    You seem to have the worst transmission in this board and I support your decision to get the software/firmware upgrade. I still think Accord is a good car but I love my Lexus..good luck to you.
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    The hesitation problem you described was mentioned to me by a Lexus tech who also found this to be an issue with the '02 ES. He's already told Lexus himself, and says it's just a waiting game now to see if they'll release an update. I'm guessing if it's going to take more than a software update, then Lexus will try to dismiss it.
    Maybe try to get in touch with someone more important at Lexus headquarters, and let him know that this issue is being discussed on public forums. Be like the lady that raised hell about the engine sludge problem. =)

    By the way, there's a brand new Accord coming out this fall. I like the look of the new Accord coupe! Tail lights look like they were ripped off a Mercedes. =)
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    mjs4 - I agree with neuroguy. Take it to the dealer and they'll take care of it under warranty.

    atoews - How close are you to Lexus' Torrance, CA headquarters? You could pay them a personal visit to discuss your transmission problem.

    aceking2000 - TSBs don't indicate a problem in all cars that need to be fixed (that'd be a recall), but are rather just advisories to the Lexus techs on what issues have come up for some owners (could be few, could be many). In other words, it just makes it easier for them to diagnose problems if it fits one of the scenarios presented in a TSB. If you're close to your dealer, you could drive there and ask to see it. Or call them up about it. It may be a little while before I go to the dealer for service.
    I'm getting a soft ticking noise from what sounds like the left of the steering wheel. It sounds like noise from a keychain dangling around, but I drove with the key only and it's still there. It's not bad enough that I'd want them to disassemble the area to take a look at it (and potentially cause other noise issues to crop up!)
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    sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    Keep us posted on this.

    I am noticing a similar problem with my 2000 ES with 27,000 miles on it. In San Diego, we tend to drive pretty fast on the freeways when there is light traffic (75-80 mph). I have noticed an occasional shutter in my steering wheel during high speed breaking. But unlike a warped rotor problem, this shutter seems to come and go rather than be constantly there. I might drive for a week without it manifesting itself.

    I'm getting ready to take my car in too, but these sporatic problems are so hard to chase down, I've been waiting to see if the problem would get worse or become more frequent.
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Here is the link to Car&Driver's August issue review of the '02 ES300:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2002/august/0208_roadtest_es300.xml
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    kiiwiikiiwii Member Posts: 318
    I have followed the ES discussion for quite a while. I don't have an ES, but thinking of getting one sometime in the near future. My guess is that the transmission problem isn't simply a software issue. A software bug (or bugs) shouldn't take more than few weeks to fix. Someone here said the dealer stated it will be another 6 months before a software fix is availble. Hmm.... I don't quite believe it. This fix probably will involve expensive hardware replacement, and Toyota/Lexus is still trying to find the least expensive/most economical method to solve the problem. ....just my guess
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    The reasons and timeframes you've seen here are all just guesses. Nobody's really sure what the issue is. But there's way too many people having problems with the '02 ES transmission to write it off.

    At this point, I'd wait anyways. There's a small chance the '03 ES will get a bigger engine. If not '03, then likely in '04. By '04, the new GS will be out as well.
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    mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings:

    I am considering a 2002 ES300 but have reservations regarding the transmission issues that many have experienced. I currently drive a 2000 Solara SLE and the performance (engine/transmission) is excellent. Overall, the car has been great although I want something quieter and a bit larger and it seems the ES300 will meet those requirements. Is the ES300 really so quiet that you can actually hear your pulse? Also, for those who have the 'base' audio system, do you wish you had gotten the Mark Levinson instead?

    Finally, I really don't want the Nav but want the ML and the list for all the stuff is 39,210 and I will offer 37,000 - is this reasonable for this vehicle?

    Thanks for any comments regarding the above -

    M. J. McCloskey
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    hoorayhooray Member Posts: 15
    I have had a 2002 ES 300 for 6 weeks and 1,200 miles. The car is indeed very very quiet. Read the "Car and Driver" article. Based upon their decibel measurements, it is as quiet at full acceleration as other cars are when cruising at 70 mph.

    I have the "base" stereo system with the 6 cd changer. It sounds as good to me as the Bose system I had in my Infiniti. I have no regrets about the base stereo system.

    I have not had the transmission problems of others and now that I have over 1,000 miles on the car I have been driving it harder. It is not the fastest car I've ever had, but it is the quietest with the best highway cruising ride. I have found that I can get a little better acceleration when passing at highway speeds by using the gate shifter to downshift to second or third. As C&D noted in their acceleration test, you can go up to 60mph+ in second gear and 90mph+ in third gear. The gate shifter makes it easy enough to manually downshift for urgent passing.

    Good Luck with your decision. I have everything but the ML and Nav system in mine and I paid $34,500 before taxes, etc.
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    sliangsliang Member Posts: 50
    First of all, the MSRP for a fully loaded ES (including AVS and cargo net those accessories) without NAV is about $38,100 since the NAV itself costs $1,850. Not sure how you calculated your MSRP.
    The invoice for the ES should be around $33,300 according to Edmunds calculator. The dealer's invoice could be hundreds dollars higher because of other extra costs.
    Not sure how the market of the ES in your living area is, but in S. CA, you probably can buy one of this ES for 1K over invoice. In general any offer between 1K and 2K over invoice is reasonable IMO.
    Since you still have a car to drive, if I were you, I would wait
    until Lexus fixes the transmission bug.
    I have a fully loaded (NAV+ML+AVS etc.) 02 ES built in 12/01, the transmission does have the problem when it was new, now I am approaching 10K miles, the transmission is just getting smoother and smoother everyday. The ML stereo system is really, really good comparing to those Bose systems in other cars including my wife's Acura RL. Whether it worths the extra $900 dollars really depends on what you want. Listening to my favorite classical music in such quite car on the free way is very enjoyable.
    Good luck for your car shopping.
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    rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    I have an 02 es300 and I think it's very quiet but I wouldn't go as far as too quiet you can hear your pulse. There is still a bit of wind rush and some tire noise but it's still the most quiet car I have ever driven (owned or borrowed). It's great for long distance driving. Boring for short curvy ones.

    If you are happy with the tranny of your Solara, you will be very disappointed with the es. You may want to wait until they come out with a fix.
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    mmcloskey - Although a fair number of us feel the transmission problem, it certainly appears as though the majority of owners are satisfied with their transmissions. And I cannot find a single review that cites the ES300 transmission as a deficiency in the vehicle. I am convinced that all individual vehicles have the same transmission symptom, but drivers experience the transmission very differently.

    The bottom line is that it is important to TEST Drive the vehicle, paying particular attention to the transmission, before you purchase it. One of the best ways is to apply light pressure to the accelerator at slower speeds, i.e. 20 - 25 mph to increase your speed. Another test is to drive at about 40-45 mph continuously, back off the accelerator to slow slightly and then reapply the acceleration fairly lightly, observing the responsiveness of the transmission during the entire process.

    I experience the transmission problem in my vehicle, but not to the extent that texas83 and rtorreca do. I recently test drove another vehicle, and even though the saleman denied that there was a transmission problem, when I repeated it on a test drive, even he had to admit that he felt the symptom. My sister was along with me on the test drive. She said she felt the symptom, but did not think it seemed a big deal.

    rtorreca - It is frustrating that the majority of owners do not experience the symptom because it probably means a lesser chance of Lexus doing anything about it, but we probably need to admit, no matter how reluctantly, that those of us who find it a problem are in the minority.
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    mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings again:

    First, thanks to those who provided their comments regarding my initial posting.

    I received a call from Pohanka Lexus in No. VA about an ES300 with the features and color (Alabaster Metallic) that I inquired about. I went and test drove the car (with only 13 miles on the ODO) and was very impressed. Super smooth, quiet and refined with a very opulent interior that is just about perfect. I noticed nothing unusual about the transmisson so I jumped in and am now the very proud owner of an ES300! It has the Nav/ML, Wood steering wheel, Heated seats, HID lights, VSC, Power rear shade, Trunk mat and wheel locks. MSRP was 39,315 and I was quoted 36,455.00 which I considered quite reasonable.

    The Solara I traded will be missed, but it couldn't compare to the ES300 in overall presence.

    BTW, it was noted by the salesman the car has rain sensing wipers and water repellent side glass. I didn't notice any mention of those features on the window sticker although the wiper stalk does have an 'auto' setting.

    M. J. McCloskey - ES300 - finally!
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Welcome to the club! =)

    Auto-sensing wipers are bundled with the HID lights. You'll see the sensor next to the rear-view mirror...it detects raindrops. I've only had to use the wipers once. bit it seemed to work quite well...you set the sensitivity and it slows down and speeds up depending on how much rain there is.

    The water repellant side glass is a nice feature. The laminate coating beads up the rain and the drops fly right off the window when driving. It'd be nice if they had this treatment on the windshield as well.
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    bitnoj1bitnoj1 Member Posts: 17
    Who's offering the best price on the ES300 w/o NAV and ML. There are appx. 8 dealers in the Chicago area. It's getting late in the 2002 year and the 03's are on the horizon. Is $1000 over invoice out of the question?
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    One way to find out what the invoice is is to go through one of those "no haggle" auto programs, like they have at Sam's Club or Costco. The strategy there is that Sam's Club or Costco or whomever will refer you to a dealer and will provide the dealer your name. The dealer will contact you. You will interact with the dealer's fleet manager. The "no haggle" strategy is that the fleet manager will give you a price over invoice quote. Sometimes, the fleet manager will give you the info over the phone.

    When I purchased my vehicle, I was also considering a Camry, and the Toyota dealer referred to me by Sam's Club provided the information, invoice + price over invoice, over the phone. With Lexus, however, I had to go in to the dealer to get the quote.
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    atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Some ES300 owners have speculated about the desirablilty of RWD over FWD. I live in Southern California and I also prefer RWD over FWD.

    But upon visiting relatives in the Midwest, I discovered that FWD tends to generally be preferred without question to RWD because of the snow issue.

    So, I have a question for Midwesterners and others in snow country. Would a RWD ES300 deter you from buying the vehicle?

    Aceking2000, from Troy, Mich., what do YOU think?
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    verozahlverozahl Member Posts: 574
    Metro Detroit isn't exactly snow country. You might want to ask people who live in northern Michigan on a year-round basis about snow! >;p (however, Lansing is the site of Michigan's northernmost Lexus dealer).

    RWD Lexus? IS, GS... they exist! need I say more? ES should stay FWD.
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    kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    For invoice pricing, just go to carsdirect.com
    They give you a breakdown of the invoice pricing for the car and all options, and even add it up for you based on the options you select.

    Always bargain from the invoice price. "I'll buy for $500 over invoice" is better than "I want $3000 off MSRP". The latter sounds like you want a huge discount, the former sounds like you want to give them a decent profit for the sale and is harder for them to argue with. Besides, it shows you're an informed buyer if you know invoice before you walk in there.

    Purchase through the Internet sales teams at the various dealers unless you're skilled at negotiating in person. Internet sales is less hassle and more straightforward. They figure if you're buying through the net, you'll have already used the various electronic means to ascertain invoice pricing.

    Contain your excitement at the dealership. The more excited that they see you are about the car, the less willing they are to deal. The best deals go to people they think are likely to get away if they don't offer a great deal on the spot.
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    tk_dettk_det Member Posts: 21
    The only Lexus I considered was the ES300 specifically because it was FWD and I live in Michigan.
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