Lexus ES 300/ES 330

texas83

I don't have the skid control. Lexus is just making up things to say to people because they don't want to spend any money on this issue. I couldn't believe it but the Lexus Rep. acknowledged that 8% or 1 in 12 people have registered complaints about the transmission. I think that's a pretty big number. He said they've sold about 70,000 ES's, so between 5,000 and 6,000 have registered complaints. It's been my experience that most people don't go to the trouble to complain about things, so I wouldn't be surprised if 20 to 30% have the problem.

I'm going to keep up the pressure, hope all of you will as well. 6000 people represents a pretty good size class action suit.

alpha01

Please post the scenario in which your tranmission fails to select the appropriate gear immediately. I hope to test drive a Camry V6 with the 5sp and am wondering if I can duplicate your issue there- Toyota could be in for lots of trouble if 12% of Camry's 150,000 annual V6 buyers have issues with the new setup (Toyota recently 'upgraded' the Camry V6 to a 5sp unit).

Does anyone know if the 5sp auto in the ES300 is going into the new Sienna/RX330/ES330 (due fall)..ie... will this be the same unit?

-alpha

sopecreek

I don't think the Camry has the transmission issue. I remember someone complained before that the Camry didn't have the hesitation problem whereas the Lexus did.

mrrogers

The 2003 RX330 uses the U140E transmission in the FWD version, and the U140F in the AWD version. The 2001 ES300 also used the U140E transmission.
   
 The 2002/2003 ES300 uses the U150E transmission. It is possible that the new 2004 RX330 will also use the U150E transmission.

texas83

It's not a matter of shifting gears, it's a matter of communication and between the engine and transmission. At unexpected time when you need power you hit the gas the engine revs, rpms fly up but the car doesn't go anywhere for a few seconds. As the RPM's drop slowly the transmission kicks in and the car moves forward. There isn't a failure in the transmission shift, it's a failure in the software to communicate that the engine is revving and the transmission doesn't read it. I just want a car that goes when you hit the gas. The ES 300 5 speed automatic is supposed to learn your driving style, and almost anticipate how you drive. It's tech nonsense. Unless they can connect to your brain, it will never work. If you make it happen and continue to try and make it happen, the software slowly adjusts reducing the slip. I drove the car very softly for several days before the hearing. This made it easier to duplicate. Lexus needs a software upgrade and since February of last year, they haven't been able to come up with a final solution. Hope that helps.

kreativ

According to one of the car mags (MotorTrend I believe), the U150E transmission is nothing more than a U140E with an extra gear. In other words, it isn't a new design. If this is the case, it seems like some of the undesirable shifting characteristics of the transmission should be able to be fixed through software.

But as mentioned above, the delay when hitting the gas pedal hard (which I consider the most serious issue) has more to do with a seeming lapse of communication between the transmission and the engine. As many people would only floor the pedal when they're in need of getting out of a dangerous situation, they'll probably never notice this characteristic until they're in a dangerous situation. When a truck is coming straight at you at 70MPH probably isn't the best time to find out that your car indeed does have that serious lag between when you floor it and when the car actually decides to move.

This delay issue isn't confined to the ES though. Owners of other late-model Lexus' (the LS in particular) have reported this as well. Some Lexus dealers agree it's present, and have offered various explanations to why it happens. But it's a solution that matters.

georgeb7

Just my opinion.

If I buy a $40,000 new car with a transmission problem - real or perceived, I have lost big time!

The bottom line is that cars are just not worth the money any more. I have a 96 Ford Taurus and a 92 Camry. They are both running fine and I do not have problems with them. They are also paid off. To go out and buy a $40,000 car just because it looks pretty seems unwise. I bet many of the recent buyers have buyers remorse. The novelty wears off sooner than the car payments.

That being said, to each his own!

atoews

Vcheng is right on about how to reproduce the transmission symptom on a test drive.

I agree with vcheng that the symptom is totally
reproducible on a test drive. I have tested several new
vehicles and they all exhibit the problem.

I disagree however, that the hesitation lasts for multiple seconds. It may seem that way when one wants an immediate response, but three seconds is a long time.

richm4

While no car is perfect, I agree that spending $40K on a car with such as big a defect as the transmission is probably not wise. Especially if you are not getting the premium customer service that you would expect from a Lexus.

tk_det

Pretty quiet lately.

lenscap

An interesting press release was distributed the other day announcing Toyota will reorganize its sales channels in Japan and add Lexus for the first time, with 150 showrooms by 2005.

Toyota said this, combined with Lexus sales in 35 countries, will help it create a new global premium brand for the 21st century.

Lexus models have always been sold in Japan under the Toyota name, although in separate, upscale dealers from other Toyota models.

alarmpro

I finally gave in and bought an '02 ES300, but after reading this column, did I goof up??? It seems to be a great car, with only a couple small issues, but with 7000 mi, it seems to be a good deal. Any opinions? Thanks in advance!

kennynmd

alarmpro. I have an 03 and I haven't had any problems whatsoever with the vehicle. Maybe I got luck because it has no transmission problem. Again congratulations!

alarmpro

Thanks for the inspiration! I read in an earlier posting that you were asking about oil additives. I am not crazy about additives, but I am a firm believer in synthetic oil. I use it in my 01 Acura CL-S and my 1985 300ZX. The difference is astounding. You change it once a year (or 25K miles) with a filter at 6 months. The engines run cooler, smoother and I have seen a 10% increase in MPG too.
I plan on putting in Synthetic in the new Lexus when the Fumoto Oil drain arrives. The car goes into Lexus tomorrow for service on the drivers seat, headlight aim and a roaring sound from the tires. Later! Lee in Miami

lenscap

The ES 300 took top honors in the near luxury category by IntelliChoice in their 17th annual selection of vehicles with the best overall value for the model year.

That means the ES 300 is projected to have the lowest ownership expenses from the day of purchase to five years out in its category.

texas83

Lexus has offered to trade me a new '03 for $2,123.04, and I simply move my old note to the new car. I must say I was worried about that. However, their offer is very ambiguous and I intend to get all details in writing. Frankly, for what I've been thru they should have given me an outright exchange. But, I'll take what I can get. For some of you considering the purchase of this car, the first year drop off in value is incredible. I looked up Kelly Blue Book for an '02 with 13000 miles, exactly one year old. They valued the car at $27K. With the tax I payed on the original purchase, that's an $8K drop. I haven't checked other value listings. Anyway, I haven't seen hardly any complaints about the '03's so hopefully they are running better. By the way, I looked into the class action thing, but unless you have some dead people involved the attorneys won't touch this issue.

cxf

Which one do you guys use for ES300? I was wondering whether I can use the 87 one...

Thanks,

wayn1

What type of gas to use? It's in the owners manual!

atoews

I have heard nothing about a transmission design change from the '02 to the '03.

kreativ

I've also heard nothing about a tranny change from '02 to '03. Then again, if they advertised the fact that they corrected the tranny in '03, that's admitting there was a problem with the '02 tranny. At any rate, I believe I've read someone who disliked the '02 transmission say it's no different in the '03. Except for the adjustable pedal option (which should have been out Jan '02), the '03 is a virtual rerun of the '02 (as expected). Whether it's '02 or '03, plenty of people will say they don't have the problem. So it takes someone who was bothered with the '02 transmission to tell whether it's the same in the '03 or not.

I say get them to give you an '04 when it's released later this year...new 3.3L V6 and a better chance the characteristic you absolutely hate will have been worked out of the transmission by then.

alpha01

I absolutely agree with your suggestion about the 04! Try it, tex!
~alpha

alarmpro

My 2002 ES300 has developed a grinding noise which starts at around 25 mph and gets louder as speed increases. I took the car to Lexus and described the problem. They immediately told me the tires were at fault. They replaced all 5 Bridgestones with 5 new Michelins!! NICE... BUT they failed to road test the car either before or after replacing the tires. The car still has the same grinding but now with 5 new tires. I will be at the dealership at 7:30 in the morning, looking for someone to seroiusly abuse. They were totally polite and professional, but failed to do the most basic thing! I'll advise...

alarmpro

I went back to Lexus as I mentioned. This time they told me that this car was in an accident. The damage was to the wheel and tire. The car needs rear wheel bearings. I called the seller and he asked that I bring the car to him. He took it (with my wife riding shotgun) to a different Lexus dealer. The chief tech took the car on the road then put it on a lift. There he found the noise. The LF wheel apparently struck a curb, breaking the wheel and doing internal damage to the LF drive of the tranny. The noise was not in the rear, but in the front.
NO WARRANTEE repairs for damages.
The car is not being sold to us after all. He (seller) is cancelling the sale and the loan he arranged for us. We decided that the Lexus is the way we want to go, when this car is gone, we will look to buy an '03 ES300.
There are still honest people in this world.

Somewhere I read about the '04 ES330, If this is true, does anyone know when it is to arrive?
I wouldn't mind waiting, but not too long. Lee in Miami

alarmpro

The car is gone. The seller had me return the car tonight, Loan cancelled, sale cancelled. Tomorrow we shop for an 03 or maybe an 04 !!!
HAPPY ENDING..

alanberg

I know that leather is an option for ES300. Does anyone know if fabric interior is normally available in CA? I have only seen fabric on a first generation ES. Thanks.

kreativ

alarmpro - An '04 ES330 is speculated and seems likely, but not official. Current ES design cycle is '02 to '06 (5 years). Powertrain changes, if any, typically occur in the 3rd year. Refreshing of the design typically occurs in the 4th year, to get the now-aging design through its last couple of years. Availability date varies, but for the ES it has been Sept/Oct for the past few years. Unless you plan on paying top dollar, expect to wait a few months after intro for prices to go down. And due to the more powerful engine, the base price may be higher to start off with.

alanberg - Only the largest Lexus dealers in the nation will have a small # of ES w/ fabric in stock. It's typically a special order. The Regency leather in the '02 and newer ES is very nice - same as the one used in the LS. Unless you have a hatred of leather seating in general, I'd stick with the leather and forgo the hassle of special ordering.

atoews

My view is that for all intents and purposes, a cloth interior is not available on recent model Lexuses. I have visited Lexus dealers in Southern California with huge inventories and have never seen a cloth interior.

When I inquired about cloth interiors, I was advised that the wait would probably be long and unpredicatable.

I now have tailor made sheepskin covers on my seats and they are comfortable in summer and winter.

neuroguy

(Msg 3472,~pg.175) I have also noted the radio's display being dim during cold weather, then brightening to normal when the cabin warms up. It could be just the property of the display as you mention in your post. I have the "standard" radio which I believe is made by Pioneer. Thus, it is probably a bit different than the climate control one although it looks the same. A wild guess of mine is that it may also be due to the CD player having some sort of heater in it, and the display dims due to the heater's power drain. I know some car CD players won't let you play a CD if it's too hot, but I haven't heard of a car CD player with an internal heater for when it's too cold. Anyone out there with more knowledge on this issue?

BTW, my silver '02 ES300 w/ ~6K miles has been totally trouble-free. No tranny issue and the finish looks like the day I bought it even though I park it outside. The best car I've ever owned - and that includes Audis and Jags.

rparis

I just purchased an 03 after driving a 2000; a much better car. In any case the deal you will get now is much better than when a new style comes out which will probably not be for a few more years. You might be able to purchase a new vehicle slightly above invoice. Don't wait is my suggestion.

alarmpro

Thanks for the input, I found the new ES300 I wanted on Saturday afternoon. I bought it for $4,900.00 below MSRP with the Premium Package, trunk mat. Delivered before tax $30,900.00. I think I did OK.

fredvh

Wow! What a great price. That's a $1000 below invoice. How did you get that good of a price? I would be tempted to drive to Miami to get that good of a price. Is this with no trade-in? I live in the mid-west.
     I thought you were interested in the Acura CL. How did you compare these two vehicles? I am also considering the ES300 and the TL.

sddlw

Are you noticing this early in the morning? The display lighting may be tied to the light sensors that control your headlights when in the "auto" position. Dimmer at night and brighter during the day. You might notice the same effect with the dash gauges, or you might not, depending on how you have the dimmer control set. The idea is that a dimmer panel at night is less distracting and a brighter panel is needed during the day to see it properly.

alarmpro

I have an associate who has serious connections, and he owed me a favor. He was able to get a great deal, so we took it. No trade-in involved, strictly cash on the table!
Yes, I am interested in the Acura CL-S, I own one, but my wife's Camry was getting up there and I wanted her to have a Lexus. The TL is a wonderful car, I drive an 03 TL when I take my CL-S in for service at Acura. The car is really a pleasure to drive, If my memory serves me, the TL seems moor roomy than the ES300. I think the driveline in the Acura is more directed at performance than the ES300. I suggest you test drive each car and take good notes.

mg9100

Hope some of you mechanically inclined can help me out. Mine is a 1992 with 113K miles. Kept in great condition- interior seats look almost new.

Mechanic told me that the left head will need to be replaced, estimate $3-4K.

The rest of the car looks in good condition, it seems almost a waste to dump it. Do you have advice for what I should do- if get rid of it, what is the best way/ to sell?

gekko2

mg9100: dump the car. 3-4k is way too much to put into a car with that age/mileage. so much more can go wrong which can cost you. if you can afford it, put that money towards a 97-03 model. i have a '95 with 119k and am just going to drive it into the ground - but if any big repairs come up, it'll be traded in. as far as trade, maybe a dealer will give you a few grand for it on a purchase as a trade-in. good luck.

neuroguy

I understand what you are saying, but this is not the case. I do notice it early in the morning when it is still dark, but only when the car is cold. The radio display is markedly dimmer than the climate control display. And, then only for a few minutes, after which the displays are the same intensity after the car is warm. It's either due to the cold directly affecting the display, or there's some sort of temporary power drain in the radio/CD unit that is causing it - as per my earlier postulation that it's some sort of heating element in the CD player.

kingken89

I say it all depends on the deals you can get, if you can get a good trade-in like gekko2 suggested go for it but if your going to be completely dumping the and getting nothing for it then I'd say repair it, I say this because if its been well kept and maintained on schedule then your car will run practically forever, I've got the same car, 1992 ES300, with just over 311K miles. I bought the used car last October with almost 304K and its in beautiful shape, the only negative thing with it is the tranny shifts hard from 1st to 2nd, but what would you expect with that many miles.

mg9100

for your tips. i'm going to take it to a second mechanic for another opinion.

i guess i'll try to see how much i would be able to get for it as a trade. it's too bad i didn't have the kind of luck you did, kingken, to get 300K miles out of it!

i'll definitely miss these past few years of no car payments...

esaod

As I had previously mentioned, My radio display is noticeably dim when the car is very cold, BUT ONLY if the headlights are on. If you take the headlights off, the display fully illuminates immediately. When the car cabin warms up, the display gradually brightens. After about 15-20 minutes when the cabin and radio are warmed up, the display is at full brightness whether the headlights are on or off. When it's not freezing out, The radio display is normal from the start regardless of the headlights being on or off. This is different than the normal slight dimming of displays when the headlights turn on.

nogermancar

I bought my ES300 in good 'ol California and I have experience all the things mentioned in previous posts regarding ES300 '02:
1. Rotors/Tires - steering wheel shudders when stopping (getting very annoying)
2. Dimming of radio display (noticed it but won't lose sleep over it. I have had aftermarket radios and they did the same thing.)
3. Transmission hesitation (can be annoying)
4. Noises of doors and windows creeking when cold (not annoying since sound of road and other cars is worse!!!)

I take my hat off to tex for taking the lawsuit avenue. I will give my dealer a shot at redeeming themselves. I will keep you all posted as to the outcome.

With this said, I still love my Lexus. BMW and Mercedes are a terrible waste of metal and plastic. They have many more problems than our poor ES300(though no excuse for Lexus).

Advantages for ES300 (Back in 2002 I did a lot of driving/research)
1. Cost/Value (new)- MSRP for fully loaded is way below German cars
2. Roomier - I'm 6-2 and my head grinded against the roof of the German cars (I thought Germans were tall?!?!)
3. Quieter
4. More Power on passing gears
5. Ergonomics (Everything is placed exactly where I want it - Thank you Japanese!)
6. Seats (I've heard the complaints about sliding around, this is valid, but they sure are soft and comfortable to sit on. Especially after a hard day's work.) The Germans must like to sit on benches cause the BMW and Mercedes are both hard as a rock!
7. Sound system - Without any obtrusive noises entering the car, the system sounds great. This said, the standard pioneer system is quite sufficient. Levingston is for those who have $2k to drop on the sidewalk or burn.

esaod

Any thoughts on the necessity to use premium gas in a 2003 ES300? The owner's manual states can use Octane of 87, but premium would give "better performance". I have been using regular for the 4 months I've owned the car. Anyone have any problems using regular. What exactly is "better performance"?

jbailey6

Does anyone have any updates about the supposed Lexus ES330 for this coming fall? If it has a 3.3 liter engine what change in HP can one expect over the current 210 HP? Is there some sort of formula that relates volume and HP? Do you think that the increase in HP will be a big advantage? I've seen criticisms that the current Lexus ES300 lacks power. Would it therefore be worth waiting until fall for the supposed upgrade? Apart from increased HP, in favor of waiting might be that they will improve/correct the transmission problem discussed here and better depreciation. Against waiting will be the higher cost both because of the larger engine and the fact that dealers will be less likely to give buyers a discount from the MSRP? I'd appreciate some comments about this topic because I'm considering getting a Lexus ES300.

alpha01

Its reasonable to guess that the engine will be a 3.3L identical to the one in the RX330, meaning, 230hp, 242 lb. ft. torque.

Current times, as per Car and Driver, have the 210 hp ES running at 8.3 seconds to 60. Certainly adequate and spunky in some classes of vehicles, but un-impressive for entry lux.

I'd imagine the 0-60 would fall to mid 7s with the 3.3L V6.

~alpha

nogermancar

I started using 91 when I first got the ES300 7 mo ago. It was operating very smoothly(Startup, acceleration, idle, etc). Then I went to 87 and that's when I felt the following:
- The problem with the transmission seemed to me to be aggravated a bit by any octane less than 91.
- It was noticeably rougher in the mornings when the engine was cold.
- Acceleration stuttered after car was warmed up.
- Idle was rougher as well

I don't have the manual with me at the moment, but I remember it saying that the car has three catalytic converters. Please ignore this if I am wrong. I understood from reading the manual that the exhaust system in the ES300 with these three converters allows the car to be a ULEV. Given this is the case, I could understand why a premium fuel type (with additives) would be highly recommended in order to take full advantage of this exhaust system if not keep it from prematurely wearing down. Though don't take my word for it. I'm just trying to justify the higher octane mechanically.

I've heard a well known physicist radio talk show host explain that there is no difference in performance between octanes and to use 87 for all vehicles, luxury or not. He said 87 has more explosive power than 91. He also said 89 and 91 just have fuel additives that the 87 doesn't have, that's all. He also recommended using 87 for higher altitudes. I'm not sure about this, but then again, I'm no rocket scientist like him. In my past life, I had a 80's Toyota Celica. The car had more than 100k on it when I was taking it to my mechanic. Since the engine burned oil often, he recommended not putting 89 or 91 as it would aggravate the problem even more. I can't remember exactly what his reasoning was but I listened to his advice. He was a computer programmer and retired race car driver so I figured he knew what he was talking about.

There are other reasons besides the performance why I put 91 in the tank, but they are more personal than scientific. I guarantee you that my Mountaineer doesn't get the same great treatment. Just good old 87.

sopecreek

I had all my oil changes done at Lexus dealers except the last one at Toyota dealer. According to the manual, the maximum in 2001 ES300 is about 4.8 quart. After the last oil change, I checked the dipstick, and it was overfilled by a lot. So I looked at the receipt and the Toyota dealer put in 6 quart! And that is when I checked back all my receipts from Lexus dealers to find out they also used 5.5 quart for each oil change. Does anyone know why dealers do this?
I wonder if this has anything to do with trying to prevent possible engine sludge. I never saw this much overfill with my pickup truck also serviced exclusively from the Toyota dealer.

kreativ

6 quarts is really pushing it. It's simply oversight or carelessness by whoever changed your oil. My LS400 V8 doesn't even need that much oil.

sopecreek

I used a siphon tube to get out about a cup of oil last week. But it's been in there for quite a while. No problem so far but who knows what about the long term effect. Even now, the dipstick level is more than an inch above the full mark. I'll have to bring it in for 30K scheduled maintenance within a month. And I may need to purchase more tubes in the future if this happens again.

vcheng

vcheng

two things might happen: foaming in the oil can cause bearing starvation, and the main crankshaft seals might leak. Both are BIG bucks to fix.

rparis

Do many drivers change the brake fluid regularly as noted in the maintenance suggestions? I never changed it on American cars.