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Comments
ES
Less Expensive MSRP
Newer Style Design
FWD (bad weather issue?)
Faster? (330)
GS
More Expensive MSRP
Old Style Design (New in 2005?)
RWD (bad weather issue?)
Slower?
If it that were true, options would be basically free if you got all the extra money you spend on options back when you resold the car.
ES330 gets better gas mileage, more power, a larger engine and an upgraded transmission for LESS money?
I am wondering where the trade-off is. I wasn't born yesterday, and I KNOW there has to be a trade-off somewhere.
My view is that if a logic modification could fix the delay/shudder problem, then why is it so difficult to fix in the ES300?
Add that to the general report from Lexus service reps that the transmission is not thought by Lexus to be faulty - well, if the transmission is not faulty in the ES300, then why would Lexus need to fix anything for the ES330?
I suspect that the ES330 transmission will still exhibit delays/shudders, and that the symptoms will be just as bad, if not worse, in the ES330 than in the ES300.
But enjoy your half empty glass.....
I used to think the IP design of Euro car are the best, but now that I am a owner of a 02 RX, I feel the longer you sit inside a lexus, the more your are drawn to it. I once drove a ES300 home for one night (with NAV), and I am very impressed with what I see. In terms of driving dynamics and ride, it is not so "Lexus". I feel my RX rides better and quieter than the ES for some reason. One thing I don't like about is the color of the wood, seems fake. The wood in RX is better because it is more natural.
However, for your sake,and for future ES330 owners, I really do hope the transmission issue has improved.
Anyways, during the 400 plus mile, 9 plus hour drive home, I did not notice any of the transmission quirks like on the ES300. Upon accelerating from 5-60mph, the transmission shifted flawlessly. I then reduced my speed down to 45mph and accelerated to 65mph several times and did not feel any hesitation (engine or transmission) at all. I made several pit stops and took breaks along the way to cool the car off and the transmission shifted flawlessly during all of my accelerations onto the freeway. Deceleration was also flawless. My accelerations and decelerations were brisk and firm, not overpowering like one would do on a sports car.
I varied my driving habits and did not drive over 65 for the break-in. I'm sure I'll have over 1000 miles in the next 5 days and will post any other findings.
Compared to the other cars I own and have owned, this ES330 is by far the smoothest and quietest I have ever owned!
I just finished a 1100m trip in my '03 300 and was able to average 29.4mpg during the highway portion of the trip. (Now have 4K miles on the odo). That was an improvement from when mine was new - when I averaged 27mpg during the first 500miles of highway travel.
Glad to hear that you haven't had any transmission "issues" in the '04.
I haven't experienced the type of "hesitation", "clunking", "hard downshifting", etc. that has been reported on this website in my '03 either.
Further performance updates of my ES330 will be placed in the ES330 section after my first oil change at 1000 miles. I tried to duplicate the transmission problems I've read about on the previous years transmission today, and so far, no problems or issues!
As far as what I paid, I saved more than the standard $500 and $1000 off MSRP that most dealers are selling the car for. The 2 dealers in the Sacramento area laughed at the offers I made, one $2000 below MSRP, and the other $1500 below MSRP. Needless to say, I saved a lot more than that on the $38,600 MSRP on my 2004 ES330.
GOOD deals are out there, just NOT IN the Sacramento/Roseville, CA area. Invest in a $100 plane ticket to Longo Lexus in El Monte, CA and see Daniel Mac, or go to Oakland Colliseum Lexus and see Craig.
BTW... I have no affiliation with any of the aformentioned dealerships. I just tell it like it is.
My God! You're lucky you weren't killed driving that death-trap!!!
Even though I have had no issues with my transmission, I had the update done. The car does shift a little smoother now. I have also floored the car at 40 mph and don't experience any lag in acceleration. I was happy before the update and am happy now. I am still in love with this car.
For the record, I do feel the transmission symptom, am among those who are mildly annoyed by it, but I still love this car, which I have owned for 1 1/2 years. You can't touch the car for quietness, and the luxury interior beats my friend's 500 series BMW, which costs $15000 more.
Ask the posters on the Zaino site - I love my car enough for it to be the recipient of much babying with Zaino!! Whenever I need to rent a car for business, I find myself missing my ES300 the whole time.
I have driven at least 4 2002 and 2003 ES300s and have been able to repeat the problem in all of them. Based on that experience, saying the car is a "death trap" is a grandiose exaggeration, to say the least.
As far a Texas83 goes, I still cannot understand why he accepted a trade from Lexus for a new car - with the same problem. So, there are two issues which cause texas83 to lose some credibility with me:
1) He accepted a new/replacement car from Lexus with no assurance that the new car did not have the same problem. In fact the evidence is pretty clear that the behavior of all the 2002/2003 ES300 vehicles is similar.
2) His description of the symptom is very exaggerated. If his driving skills are such that the problem comes across as a "death trap", then why doesn't he get a new car? I can't see the sense in driving a death trap for so long.
I simply can't figure that out.
I like a smooth transmission, so I had the update done. To put this in perspective, if my transmission smoothness was an 8 before the update it is now a 10.
Is highway driving better, worse or the same since your upgrade?
My service rep warned that the fix causes a problem for highway driving, and I am debating whether to have the fix or to leave well enough alone.
With that said, these two have had the opportunity to compare the ES with the LS and they still love their ESes.
I think we might conclude that ES300 owners tend to be a critical group! We sure expect a lot from our 35-40K!!! We seem to expect more than those who spend 50+K.
Just an observation.
To new buyers - I would not let our complaining scare you away. Most of us love our ES300s.
Thanks for the feedback, and in the future I'll adhere to that guideline. No more transmission discussion on this page for me!!
As with atoews, I am interested in your TSB 'fix' and if the transmission behaves any differently than before the 'fix' in regards to highway driving/shifting. My 2002 ES has been wonderful and 90% of my driving is highway and I'm quite pleased with the performance and great gas mileage. I have just a bit over 10K miles in about 14 months of ownership and have used 93 octane exclusively. If your trans shifts even smoother than before, it just might be worth the effort to update my ES but only if it doesn't impact how it now performs (great) on the highway. I consider myself among those who appreciate the ES300's very refined attributes and have difficulty overlooking any deficiences. I do hope this transmission issue can be resolved to most everyone's satisfaction.
Smooth & Quiet sailing to all -
M. J. McCloskey - 2K2 ES300
About the death trap issue, that's happened to me a few times, where the car was so slow to shift up that I was in some danger. So for those of you who have not experienced this, good for you. But it does happen.
I thought about the other perks before traveling to Longo, but the savings outweighed the perks.
I recently took a 200 mile journey and my highway mileage going was over 32mpg @65-70mph and about 29-30mpg on the return leg of the trip.
I only drive my ES on the weekends (weather permiting) and I have never gotten below 26mpg between partial tank fillups. I drive in a rather sedate manner as a rule but sometimes operate the car in a 'spirited' manner. This is a luxury car afterall, so I see no need to hurry which may be why my overall mileage is so good.
I am considering a 2005 ES330 for next fall depending on the styling refresh - hopefully they will offer either a platinum or coach edition at that time.
Regards -
M. J. McCloskey
If one of you had emailed me the message would have been deleted hours and hours ago, instead of remaining here until now.
(And you just give me that many more messages to delete
Thanks!
If you're still reading the posts, what is your e-mail address so we can follow up with your suggestion?
I got the software fix and it does seem better for now.
I've read about the "transmission problem" on the 2003 ES and was able to duplicate the issue on several test drives at my local dealer. I wouldn't call the "transmission a problem" on the 2003 ES300 since I drove the demo like it was a sports car and figured it to be more of a driver preference issue. I then decided to look at a Mercedes and a Bimmer and spoke to a customer at a Mercedes dealership who indicated this was the 2nd time his car was in the shop for an electrical problem, so Mercedes was easily omitted from my choice after his comment and some research I did on the internet.
The Bimmer was nice, but wasn't as comfortable or my frame as the Lexus.
I've had my ES330 for 6 days now, and it now has 981 miles. I just had my first oil change today and promised to report my experiences to those on the ES300 column.
Since my last post on the transmission (on the ES300 thread), I reported no quirks with the transmission or engine. That was about 400 miles ago. Well as of today, I'm more impressed with the car! So far, I can't duplicate the "transmission problem" on my ES330 and have calculated that I am getting anywhere from 28mpg (mixed city/hwy) and 33mpg (hwy).
Upon acceleration, the car merges onto freeway traffic without a stumble or worry and shifts smooth. On deceleration, the gears shift smoothly and effortlessly.
I also discovered that the Variable Suspension is a nice feature to have depending on my driving mood. I also feel that the Navigation System and Mark Levinson was money well spent. It would be nice to have audio controls on the steering wheel, but the controls are already easy to reach. Does anyone know what the SAT button does on the Navigation or Stereo? Is that for Satellite radio?
The sunroof provides great ventilation and is well engineered for the car. When the sunroof is open, the wind noise is not overbearing like in other cars I own. In fact, it's the first car I've ever driven with the sunroof open and can hold a conversation with a passenger or on a cell phone without having to repeat myself.
So far, not one rattle, not one problem, and not one quirk - Then again, it's only been a week and about one thousand miles.
Does anyone know of a reputable Lojack dealer/installer in the Sacramento, CA area?
Spoiler? Window Tint? Chromed Wheels? What should I add to this car? Hmm....
Also, tell more about the variable suspension. What does it do that you notice and like?
How tall are you and do you have ample headroom?
The dealers in the Sacramento, CA area are selling the car for MSRP, while in the Bay Area, the are giving $500 - $1000 discounts. My deal was over 3 times sweater.
Anyways, the variable suspension allows me to soften or firm the ride. I soften it on the freeway and firm it around town. Since this is my work car, I carry around 50lbs of case files plus my brief case in the trunk and usually end up with a firm ride. The ride is noticeably smooth for my 5'9" 230lb frame when I adjust the suspension.
As far as headroom, I have plenty. A 6'3" co-worker of mine took my ES for a test drive and said the headroom was okay until I lowered the seat to its bottom most adjustment.
I have seen one message praising this option, would like to hear more about it from others.