Danny 28 the Mini was designed by a man of Italian extraction, Alex Issogonis. He was the first to pioneer the "east-west" front wheel drive arrangement. ALso the mini for many years had a central dominant speedo. It was also famous for its remarkable room inside given its small exterior dimension.
I heard from one of the dealers I am dealing with. He says that the initial value of a vehicle is the Total MSRP (i.e., the sticker price) and that is what depreciation is measured against. He estimates that most cars lose 10% of their initial value when someone buys them and drives them off the lot. I am waiting to get feedback from my credit union on this.
If this is correct and I put just a little money down, I would not be upside down when I leave from the dealership on two of the three quotes I have. On the third deal, I would have to come up with a significant amount of cash not to be upside down.
This is the first I had read or heard that the ECHO has an electric heater. If it is true, it seems to have advantages. When I first saw photos of ECHO, I thought it was the ugliest car since the AMC Pacer. But, after seeing and driving the ECHO 15 months ago, I now agree with danny28 and others. The ECHO is an engineering triumph. Great performance, great economy, great space inside, innovative styling inside and out,and the list goes on. Put in the nice comfortable seats and nice interior trim of Sienna CE and Cruise Control but keep the rest as is, and this senior citizen age 62 would buy one.
Yes,the little heater comes on when the car is cold and needs to warm up. It helps a lot. The first time the windows had frost and ice. My little car warmed up twice as fast as my hubbies. I like the little cold engine light also, that reminds me to let it warm up. I have reached 1000 miles. Wow. I will have to take her in for an oil change soon. My only complaint about the car so far is it takes a strong hand on windy days if I am in the car alone.
I just saw the car there and my wife snapped the picture. I would have loved a ride around scenic Northern Ireland but, alas, the owner never materialized.
I have recently seen an old Mini around where I live though, and it's usually carrying a family of four. They all seem happy enough with the room, and the car certainly turns heads.
The owners manual for ECHO states that you must keep top speed to 55 mph during breakin. Under FAQ's at the Toyota website, this is further refined to keeping the rpms to 2500-4000. I recently read in Car and Drivers review of ECHO that fifth gear produces 22.9 mph/1000rpm. So that means 4000 rpm equals 92 mph. So those who need to do long distance hiway driving while under breakin probably don't need to stick to 55. (as if you would anyway!)
I bought an Echo in April. Absolutely loved it! However, winter has arrived and my opinion has changed. I put 4 high quality snowtires on it and I still have trouble getting uphill in snowfalls. I've had to back down the hill more than once in reverse. I am a committed Toyota owner (20+ yrs). This is very discouraging. Comments or suggestions?
kneisl1, thanks for the research, I didn't toast my Echo!!! I drove for 65 to 68 mph in the first 2 days.... so it's about 3000 rpm, I'm fine!!!
I'm used to my Echo already, no problem with 1st and 2nd gear. Hmm... Gas millage wasn't very good. Almost 3/4 tank has gone and I only have driven 226 miles. I think it's because the hilly road in KC, especially where I commute.
After sitting in a Focus the other day when my friend give me a ride, I feel a lot better about the Echo's engine noise... it's more quiet.
It's weekend already...it's time to bring my Echo to do some seious shopping. Have a great weekend everybody!
In comparing my Echo(auto) to my previous civic EX-V(auto)(which had ABS and my Echo does not)I find the Echo handles better in the snow...I have not added any snow tires just the tires they came with (14 inch)..I have not felt the car slip or slide or become uncontrollable, I am quite pleased how it handles in these crazy Canadian winters! In terms of how it handles on a hill, there really isnt a hilly terrain in my region but I do have to drive up a hilly road to get to my house and I havent felt any troubles but I will be more observant next time..Happy Echo-ing
Any car's ability to climb snowy hills depends primarily on 2 things: 1)The type of tires used on the driving wheels, and 2) The % of gross vehicle weight on the driving wheels.
Of course, the driver can influence the vehicle's ability in a negative way, by spinning the driving wheels, but I'll assume that you're not doing that.
The best snow tires I've tried are Bridgestone Blizzacks. They have a special soft rubber compound on the outer surface that's designed to achieve a high coefficient of friction with ice. They also have an open tread design for deep snow and a lot of transverse "sipes" fine grooves that help the tire grab ice and hard packed snow.
My experience here in Canada so far is that my Echo performs as well or better than any other front wheel drive vehicle I've driven. Generally, on ice and snow the order of performance goes with the % weight on the driving wheels as follows: 4 wheel drive = 100% front wheel drive > 50%, and rear wheel drive < 50%.
Apologies for the mistake re Issogonis, I always throught he was Italian. Well I'll try to think first and comment later!!
About running in a car. It is not only the engine that needs to be run in but also every other part. That is why there is an upper limit speed. All those new bearings, gearbox, diff, steering, tires, etc need to be treated gently. The best example of this is with brakes. The manual says not to break hard for the first 300km or so because seating the brakes is very important for good brake performance later on. If you don't do this you end up with uneven brakes. One can easily see why all the other parts need to be run in carefully.
After 2 weeks of driving a rented Ford Focus, I got back home & drove my Echo again. It is not my imagination, the Echo has more responsive steering, much better acceleration, & better braking.
I was driving on I-70 in the downtown area of KC and saw another brand new Echo. This one was a dark blue one from Molle Toyota. I pulled up beside the car, smiled and waved. The guy driving looked over at my Echo and returned the smile. I wondered if it was one of you guys that have been posting in here. Was it?
It was not me that you saw in the dark blue Echo and Moses has a red one like yours so it could not have been him either. I had to work today and on my way back home, I saw a silver four door Echo, but I did not get to see the back end close up so I have no idea where they bought it.
I think I am going to run off copies of a letter telling people about this forum and giving my e-mail address and leaving them on windshields of people with Echos.
Basically, three days until I go get my loan and five days until I order my car.
I have also thought about saying hi to other Echo owners when I saw them in person, but did not think about letting them know about this conference. I wonder if the Toyota Dealers in town would be willing to share the info with new owners. I found out about Edmunds from one of the dealers. Then I found the conference room by chance. There is a white Echo owner who must work in at the Wal-Mart in Roeland Park. I see the car parked there in the same spot alot. I have thought about stopping by and saying hi.
Test drove and signed the paperwork (gulp) yesterday. Will pick up my 4 door silver air con automatic with pkg 1 Echo next Saturday. Dealer will have power windows and locks installed along with keyless entry system. The wife liked a used Camry for less money than I am spending on the Echo. Yet after reading all these posts I refuse to think I made the wrong decision. Wife is a believer in SUVs so Echo is not her first choice. Since I will be the main driver, she okayed my decision. Hope I am not laughed at as I drive around in my Echo since I am a 52 year old male and the market for the Echo seems to be for the college age kids. Wife liked the red colored Echo best but I decided that silver fits me better. I will be curious to see if she begins to like the Echo as much as I think I will. Our two college kids will be waiting patiently to see if old dad tires of the Echo so if the wrong decision then can pass it on down to one of them.
Relieved that a decision was made but always have that lingering feeling that could have done better at another dealer or with another model. Car buying reminds me of a trip to the dentist: It may be for your own good but does not mean you have to enjoy the process. My brother told me to buy a Camry but I like the quirkyness of the Echo.
So need some words of wisdom along the lines of "You made the right decision" to boost my morale.
It may please you to know that in spite of our apparent "youthful enthusiasm", many of us who own echos and post on this topic, are in the 50+ age group. The echo is not just for the young, but also for "the young at heart"....
My Echo is also silver. We've had it since May 15, and I can safely say that I've never enjoyed a car more.
"A thing of beauty is a joy forever", and the Echo's beauty goes far beyond it's quirky appearance. I think that it's a vehicle which is ahead of it's time. One that other manufacturers are already starting to emulate.
Your "some philosophy" posting (#518) started me thinking about the Edmunds (and other) non-objective reviews of the Echo. I have a theory which may explain some of the bias we see in these reviews.
Perhaps to an automotive "expert", the elegant simplicity of the Echo is somewhat threatening. Consider how you would feel if you had devoted your career to learning about how expensive design and manufacturing techniques can be used to squeak one more MPH in a slalom test, or one less tenth of a second in a standing start 1/4 mile drag race, and convincing yourself and others that a person really should by a car that not only emulates but is only slightly removed from a racing machine.....
How could you possibly tell your readers that they really don't need to spend more on a car than they did on their house in order to buy the best car on the market for their needs.
Best price, Best gas mileage, Best ride (in comfort), Quietest, Roomiest, Easiest to park, Lightest, and hence, easiest on the environment, and safest for a vehicle of this weight ??
It might make readers question everything you've said for the past few decades about skid pads, lane changes, horsepower, suspensions, and all the latest gizmos that this machine lacks, but obviously doesn't need. Wow! it might even lead the reader to question the very "more is better" philosophy of the entire automotive industry.
Echos are cars for all ages. I'm 24 and I think Mong1 is too, and there are some others in their twenties in addition to the babyboomers here, but I see people of all ages driving Echos-from teenagers to very white-haired people.
Maybe the Echo can be the first cult car to span generations (I don't know that the Beetle did that...)
You made the right choice. I've owned a number of new cars over the years from a 65 VW that I paid $1340 new to Fords (3), Dodges(1), Hondas (2)and even a Renault Alliance. Some I've liked. Some I regret buying. I've had my ECHO since August. Now have almost 18K miles and enjoy every minute. It's the first car I've found, simply put, fun to drive. Im also mid 50's. Retired Military. Now that we have some free time, my Mrs and I are travelling. We are heading out again mid-week from Eastern NC to Charleston SC, Jacksonville Fla then up to Philly then down to Norfolk to deliver Christmas presents to kids and grandkids. Enjoy your new ECHO and Merry Christmas ECHOers everywhere!
I was driving just outside of Houston today. I was in a bit of a hurry and had my cruise set on 82 mph. I passed a red ECHO as it was getting on an on ramp. Within 10 or 15 seconds, it shot pass me and kept on trucking. I sped up to follow it. There was some crosswinds in the open stretches that I could feel in my 1/2 ton pick-up, but I did not see the ECHO get pushed around at all. I was impressed how quickly it got up to highway speed and how well it seemed to track on the road. Was thinking about getting a Corrolla next, but there is just something about those ECHOs. Just my 2 cents worth....
I have the song Tomorrow from Annie running through my head because tomorrow I go get my financing for my Echo.
Given my past credit history, I am taking my two most recent paystubs (and I know approximately how much I am getting paid on Friday), my tax return from last year, and a letter from the dealership I am going to buy the Echo from showing the total MSRP and the price they want. Is there anything else that anyone thinks I should take.
We were supposed to get four to eight inches of snow last night along with freezing rain, but then they changed that to two to four inches and freezing rain. I know we got freezing rain and some snow, but not sure how much.
I will be waiting anxiously for Moses and Melody to tell me how their Echos do.
I am not looking forward to going out and scrapping the windows on my car, that is for sure. I do not do well in extreme hot or cold.
Well, I have some things to do before I go to work so I better end this. Have a nice day.
Baby b don't worry you'll love the ECHO. Ernie my father was strictly a 100% American Is Best Chevrolet owner. I"m was sure he was dismayed when I took to reading How To Fix Your Volkswagen For The Complete Idiot as a teenager and began assembling a tool stash. One day I came home from school to see a blue VW sitting in the driveway. "Who do we know that owns a VW?" I thought. My Dad said, "That little car out there has a blown engine. Put your money where your mouth is and fix it!" That was the first time I ever worked on a car. After I got it running (I didn't have a drivers liscence) to my suprise my father started driving it! I never would have thought I'd ever see him drive a foreign car! After a few years the car was involved in a minor fender bender, and he traded it on a brand new '74, which was also a shock. So just as the ECHO is not only for the young today, neither was the beetle the exclusive property of the young back then. Both are "the little car that could".
Danny, what you are saying sounds plausible to me. As I said before, I'm not into cars so I don't read car magazines. I read a lot of reviews when I was shopping for the ECHO, but generally Edmund's is the extent of my automotive reading and that's only because I read this board frequently. I am very into motorcycles, so I read motorcycle magazines voraciously. I know that in the world of moto-journalism there are parallels to the situation you describe. The short version is this: the road racers are incapable, for whatever reason, of evaluating a Harley w/ any objectivity. The Harley guys, for whatever reason, are incapable of evaluating sportbike with any objectivity. The same goes for every genre of motorcycle to another. Additionally, the more high-end equipment to which these reviewers are exposed, the less relevant their reviews become to the average Joe (or Jo Anne). I don't think this happens on purpose. I guess they just get jaded.
Anyway, the ECHO is a great car. I think the comment at the end of the latest review, "Know what would be fun? Tuner TRD Echos on a kart track," kind of gives away the basic bent of the reviewers and may be instructive as to why the ECHO faired so poorly in the court of their opinion. Perhaps no one told them the ECHO is not a sports car?
Hey, you must have watched Annie for the whole night yesterday on Fox 4 channel. I love that show but was to lazy to watch TV and get tired after watching Figure skating for the whole afternoon.
Well... Damn, I didn't exercise this morning. When I wake up at 5:30 am and looked out the windows.... snow!!!!! Anyway, I parked the Echo in a car porch so it doesn't take me too long to leave my apartment to go to work at about 9:00 (he he he... no scrapping).
Hmm... 2 weeks after driving on my new Echo... get used to everything already. The Echo does handle snow very well, I think it's because it's light. The Tracker I had does the same thing. Anyway, I was on my way to work, took 75th st heading east. left turned to Metcalf... The road was pretty bad, not salted very much. As I said before, the road I commute is pretty hilly. I sliped a little bit when going up hill, that was because I shifted gear on my way to climb the hill. But the Echo does the job very well, I was able to control the car by release the gas pedal while sticking to lower gear. I know this is going to reduce the gas millage a lot but that's the way you're suppose to drive on winter/snow day when you're driving a stick car. I don't know how I'm going to react if I own an Auto transmission car as the only way to decelerate is using the break, which make the situation worse if you're slipped. Anyway, I'm happy with the Echo during snow day... it hurt to see my Echo picked up the mud on my way to work...poor Echo.
Bought mine Saturday. Trading from a Dodge Ram 1500, which was becoming a pile of slowly moving metal.
I drove to NY from PA last Friday and had my last problem with the truck. A friend that I was visiting had purchased an Echo earlier this year, which I had ample time driving.
I found the drive of his Echo to be great. Handling, fuel, acceleration, seating, for me this is a great vehicle. And even on the highway when the tractor/trailers fly past, you do not get sucked in.
The ride home to PA was great on Sunday, 200 miles and very comfortable. Ventilation in the car is great, that you do not feel stuffy. Visibility is great, sitting up high. Leg room ... well actually, if the seat is in the far back position as I had in the Dodge, I would not be able to drive ... so, the Echo seems to have more leg room (extended) then the Dodge had. Very impressive.
On the minus side ... the side mirrors manual control, but as long as no one plays with them or bumps them with the fat butt getting out of their Suburban, they will be OK ... and the manual windows, but since I no longer smoke, I should not have to roll the windows down to air out the interior and if I get behind an oil burner, then I can re-circulate the air instead of bringing in 'fresh'.
As the winter goes on, I will post my feelings then.
Hi all I have been following this discussion group since August and decided I should stop lurking and introduce myself. I have a green Echo took possession of in on the 1st of August and now have 5700 km on it. Sitting up here in Ottawa Canada we have already got a good dose of snow and if the weather reports are any indication more will fall tonight so tomorrow should be a real test. So far I have had no trouble but the same can be said for the Chevy Sprint which I also drive every other day. I think it is the narrow tires that do the trick. My Sprint has never given me any problems in the winter as far as snow goes. As for the rest of it I like to leave lots of room in case trouble happens. As for the car itself my wife and I love it! I only wish I could replace my 10 yr old Sprint with another Echo, alas financial conditions will not make that feasible for a while. Any way I have to go and get my snow shovel ready to go for tomorrow's fun and games.
I also traded in a truck (F150 4x4) on my new Echo. I can't tell you how much I enjoy filling the tank ! Highway mileage is twice the F150's. City mileage is 3 times !
Too bad about the cold weather. It was -33C here the other day. The Echo ran just like summertime!. I just turned the key and away I went. What a marvel of Engineering !
We have about a foot of snow here so far but only got it 2-3 inches at a time, so no need for snow tires yet. We just drive over it on most streets.
I just washed it the other day to make sure I got all the fall salt off of it. It's staying really clean now that we're in the winter deep freeze. Even the tires are staying nice and black. I've been leaving the windows down about 3mm (1/8") when I park it outside to let the humidity out, and they've stayed completely clean. I can just jump in and go anywhere because the electric heater stays one step ahead of the moisture from my breath. In 30 plus years of driving I've never seen anything like it....
P.S. When the Beetle first came out everyone said it looked "funny" too ! I bought a '59 Bug in 1966. I just about froze my rear end off during the first winter until I bought a gas heater for it. The heater worked fine except it used more gas than the car ! I took the rear seat back out and made a "playpen" in the back. I had a lot of fun in that little love bug.....
I also considered a Corolla when shopping last spring. I analyzed about eight different compacts and the Corolla made it to my short list. Actually, based on my short list, my brother bought the Corolla, and I bought the Echo. here were the deciding factors for me:
1) More interior space and less exterior size for the Echo. 2) Folding rear seat was standard equipment on canadian Echos vs. not available on the entry level Corolla. My brother had to ask me to bring his daughters bike home one day because of this. 3) Better gas mileage and better acceleration for the Echo. 4) Lower weight = easier on the environment during manufacture and use. 5) About 2000 fewer loonies ($CDN). 6) I liked the "hybrid vehicle / futuristic" styling associated with the lower drag coefficient (0.30).
One thing that happened to me the other day, it had been wet snow the day before so there was a lot of water around. The that night we had a cold snap down to -24 from -4. Got in the car and tried to crack the window and it would not go right away, I had to lean into it a bit, then pop the window was frozen in place. I don't know if it was a fluke or it is a design flaw (Gasp!!) but I'm going to keep my eye on it.
I've been driving in Winnipeg for a long time. frozen windows are a common event whenever a wet car is left in the cold. Whenever I wash my car in the winter I arrange to dry it out in a warm, dry place before leaving it outside.
If you don't have heated garage available to you, take it to a dept. store or hotel with a heated garage and leave it there for a few hours while you go shopping, eating, drinking or whatever you like to do.
I used to wait for my Company's Christmas party each year to wash my car because they always held it in a hotel with a heated garage....
Well said ! I think you hit the nail on the head! Now that I think about it, many car reviewers review all cars as though they were sports cars. That's why they concentrate on the acceleration, handling and braking etc. and give so little attention to the more practical aspects like mileage, trunk space, ease of parking, visibility, and ease of egress and exit etc.
The Echo is a car that excels in all the daily practical aspects but goes against the common (sports car enthusiast's) wisdom in the area of raw power and handling. It's very hard to see why a 2 litre engine is superior to a 1.5 litre engine if the smaller engine will accelerate just as quickly UNLESS you have been indoctrinated into the more is better way of thinking.
It also occurred to me that the usual put downs of small cars related to reliability and depreciation obviously don't apply to Toyotas so the reviewers had to search pretty hard to find fault with a car which doesn't fit the mold, hence the digs about the appearance and weight etc.
I'd like to thank all of you for helping my family and I choose to own an Echo. After reading your responses on Edmunds for the last 2 months, I finally decided to purchase a 2001 red Echo. All I can say is "I LOVE IT". And my kids (8 & 4) also love it. I'm a single mom of 33 living in Florida. We test drove and compared the Focus, Sephia and the daewoo. The Echo won our hearts (although I hate to admit at one point we were even considering a Focus). Edmund's terrible review did not change our minds, luckily all of you talked so highly of your new car that we followed suit. We have owned this little cutie since Wednesday. We keep finding reasons to take trips to the store (in the long run this could be costly). The center dash doesn't effect me in any way. I LOVE the storage space, especially with 2 kids, and of course the gas mileage, since I am carpool mom. The car handles great and is easy to squeeze into spaces. Well, that's it.....it's been nice reading your forum.....
Welcome to the boards, Grimjack. I was wondering if you decided to use that name because of the comic book Grimjack which was published back in the '80s. I was a big fan of that comic.
Moses, I did not even know that Annie had been on. I just have a lot of thoughts running around in my head and I never know what I am going to be thinking about. I just started thinking, "Tomorrow, I go to the credit union, tomorrow I go to the credit union." And the first thing I know, I hear Andrea McCardle singing Tomorrow.
My present car does not have a rear window defroster and the front heater is not that strong so it took me over an hour to scrap the windows so I could get to work. I was about 23 minutes late, but no biggie since I don't think anybody was on time today. The car handled pretty well and a lot better than other cars. It has been a good car and I will be a little sad when I have to park it, but I am really looking forward to getting my Echo.
Honestly, this weather has me thinking that if I get approved tomorrow (and I should), I might just forgo the ABS and the side impact airbags and get my Echo on Thursday. I guess if I go to the dealership and they have an Echo with the rest of the items on my wish list, maybe I should take that as a sign.
I need to go do some research at Carsdirect.com about the price of Echos optioned without the ABS and side impact airbags so this is goodbye for the night, probably.
To Mong1 and Echoluvrst. I was scheduled off for a vacation day for Monday so I did not have to get my lil red baby out on the road. I will find out tommorrow how well it does. It is supposed to be nasty here in KC tommorrow also. They have already cancelled school for my kids for Tues. I guess I will find out "tommorrow". :} To the Florida Echo Owner, Congrats. I love my 4 door Red Echo. I have a BIG family of 4. My husband is 6'6" and my kids are both taller than me. We fit nicely in the Echo.
Comments
the Mini was designed by a man of Italian extraction, Alex Issogonis.
He was the first to pioneer the "east-west" front wheel drive arrangement.
ALso the mini for many years had a central dominant speedo. It was also famous for its remarkable room inside given its small exterior dimension.
If this is correct and I put just a little money down, I would not be upside down when I leave from the dealership on two of the three quotes I have. On the third deal, I would have to come up with a significant amount of cash not to be upside down.
Well, time to brush my teeth and go to work.
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/news/paris00/production.mini.cooper.html
I stand corrected. Thank you. I guess that 30 year old memory suffered from a little data corruption.
Vadp:
Thanks for the links - very interesting !
See:
http://www.classicmini.com/timecapsule/1900index.html
Born: in Turkey
Father: Greek
Mother: German
Nationality: British
When I first saw photos of ECHO, I thought it was the ugliest car since the AMC Pacer. But, after seeing and driving the ECHO 15 months ago, I now agree with danny28 and others. The ECHO is an engineering triumph. Great performance, great economy, great space inside, innovative styling inside and out,and the list goes on. Put in the nice comfortable seats and nice interior trim of Sienna CE and Cruise Control but keep the rest as is, and this senior citizen age 62 would buy one.
My only complaint about the car so far is it takes a strong hand on windy days if I am in the car alone.
The Mini, like the Echo, also seems bigger on the inside than the outside.
My father owns a 1961 Mini.
to
be
reminded
that
there
are
warm
human
bodies
behind
each
of
these
posts!
It remindes me of the closet hotels in Tokyo. You literally sleep in a drawer. But hey, it was cost effective.
http://www.classicmini.com/timecapsule/1900index.html
I just saw the car there and my wife snapped the picture. I would have loved a ride around scenic Northern Ireland but, alas, the owner never materialized.
I have recently seen an old Mini around where I live though, and it's usually carrying a family of four. They all seem happy enough with the room, and the car certainly turns heads.
Good picture, btw, how reliable were the old minis?
However, winter has arrived and my opinion has changed. I put 4 high quality snowtires on it and I still have trouble getting uphill in snowfalls. I've had to back down the hill more than once in reverse. I am a committed Toyota owner (20+ yrs). This is very discouraging. Comments or suggestions?
I'm used to my Echo already, no problem with 1st and 2nd gear. Hmm... Gas millage wasn't very good. Almost 3/4 tank has gone and I only have driven 226 miles. I think it's because the hilly road in KC, especially where I commute.
After sitting in a Focus the other day when my friend give me a ride, I feel a lot better about the Echo's engine noise... it's more quiet.
It's weekend already...it's time to bring my Echo to do some seious shopping. Have a great weekend everybody!
1)The type of tires used on the driving wheels, and
2) The % of gross vehicle weight on the driving wheels.
Of course, the driver can influence the vehicle's ability in a negative way, by spinning the driving wheels, but I'll assume that you're not doing that.
The best snow tires I've tried are Bridgestone Blizzacks. They have a special soft rubber compound on the outer surface that's designed to achieve a high coefficient of friction with ice. They also have an open tread design for deep snow and a lot of transverse "sipes" fine grooves that help the tire grab ice and hard packed snow.
My experience here in Canada so far is that my Echo performs as well or better than any other front wheel drive vehicle I've driven. Generally, on ice and snow the order of performance goes with the % weight on the driving wheels as follows:
4 wheel drive = 100%
front wheel drive > 50%, and
rear wheel drive < 50%.
This assumes the engine is in the front.
About running in a car. It is not only the engine that needs to be run in but also every other part. That is why there is an upper limit speed. All those new bearings, gearbox, diff, steering, tires, etc need to be treated gently. The best example of this is with brakes. The manual says not to break hard for the first 300km or so because seating the brakes is very important for good brake performance later on. If you don't do this you end up with uneven brakes. One can easily see why all the other parts need to be run in carefully.
I'm glad I bought my Echo.
I think I am going to run off copies of a letter telling people about this forum and giving my e-mail address and leaving them on windshields of people with Echos.
Basically, three days until I go get my loan and five days until I order my car.
yesterday. Will pick up my 4 door silver air con
automatic with pkg 1 Echo next Saturday. Dealer will have power windows and locks installed along with keyless entry system. The wife liked
a used Camry for less money than I am spending on the Echo. Yet after reading all these posts I refuse to think I made the wrong decision. Wife is a believer in SUVs so Echo is not her first choice. Since I will be the main driver, she okayed my decision. Hope I am not laughed at as I drive around in my Echo since I am a 52 year old male and the market for the Echo seems to be for the college age kids. Wife liked the red colored Echo best but I decided that silver fits me better. I will be curious to see if she begins to like the Echo as much as I think I will. Our two college kids will be waiting patiently to see if old dad tires of the Echo so if the wrong decision then can pass it on down to one of them.
Relieved that a decision was made but always have that lingering feeling that could have done better
at another dealer or with another model. Car buying reminds me of a trip to the dentist: It may be for your own good but does not mean you have to enjoy the process. My brother told me to buy a Camry but I like the quirkyness of the Echo.
So need some words of wisdom along the lines of
"You made the right decision" to boost my morale.
My Echo is also silver. We've had it since May 15, and I can safely say that I've never enjoyed a car more.
"A thing of beauty is a joy forever", and the Echo's beauty goes far beyond it's quirky appearance. I think that it's a vehicle which is ahead of it's time. One that other manufacturers are already starting to emulate.
Your "some philosophy" posting (#518) started me thinking about the Edmunds (and other) non-objective reviews of the Echo. I have a theory which may explain some of the bias we see in these reviews.
Perhaps to an automotive "expert", the elegant simplicity of the Echo is somewhat threatening. Consider how you would feel if you had devoted your career to learning about how expensive design and manufacturing techniques can be used to squeak one more MPH in a slalom test, or one less tenth of a second in a standing start 1/4 mile drag race, and convincing yourself and others that a person really should by a car that not only emulates but is only slightly removed from a racing machine.....
How could you possibly tell your readers that they really don't need to spend more on a car than they did on their house in order to buy the best car on the market for their needs.
Best price,
Best gas mileage,
Best ride (in comfort),
Quietest,
Roomiest,
Easiest to park,
Lightest, and hence, easiest on the environment,
and safest for a vehicle of this weight ??
It might make readers question everything you've said for the past few decades about skid pads, lane changes, horsepower, suspensions, and all the latest gizmos that this machine lacks, but obviously doesn't need. Wow! it might even lead the reader to question the very "more is better" philosophy of the entire automotive industry.
What heresy !
Echos are cars for all ages. I'm 24 and I think Mong1 is too, and there are some others in their twenties in addition to the babyboomers here, but I see people of all ages driving Echos-from teenagers to very white-haired people.
Maybe the Echo can be the first cult car to span generations (I don't know that the Beetle did that...)
I was impressed how quickly it got up to highway speed and how well it seemed to track on the road. Was thinking about getting a Corrolla next, but there is just something about those ECHOs.
Just my 2 cents worth....
Given my past credit history, I am taking my two most recent paystubs (and I know approximately how much I am getting paid on Friday), my tax return from last year, and a letter from the dealership I am going to buy the Echo from showing the total MSRP and the price they want. Is there anything else that anyone thinks I should take.
We were supposed to get four to eight inches of snow last night along with freezing rain, but then they changed that to two to four inches and freezing rain. I know we got freezing rain and some snow, but not sure how much.
I will be waiting anxiously for Moses and Melody to tell me how their Echos do.
I am not looking forward to going out and scrapping the windows on my car, that is for sure. I do not do well in extreme hot or cold.
Well, I have some things to do before I go to work so I better end this. Have a nice day.
Ernie my father was strictly a 100% American Is Best Chevrolet owner. I"m was sure he was dismayed when I took to reading How To Fix Your Volkswagen For The Complete Idiot as a teenager and began assembling a tool stash. One day I came home from school to see a blue VW sitting in the driveway. "Who do we know that owns a VW?" I thought. My Dad said, "That little car out there has a blown engine. Put your money where your mouth is and fix it!" That was the first time I ever worked on a car. After I got it running (I didn't have a drivers liscence) to my suprise my father started driving it! I never would have thought I'd ever see him drive a foreign car! After a few years the car was involved in a minor fender bender, and he traded it on a brand new '74, which was also a shock. So just as the ECHO is not only for the young today, neither was the beetle the exclusive property of the young back then. Both are "the little car that could".
Anyway, the ECHO is a great car. I think the comment at the end of the latest review, "Know what would be fun? Tuner TRD Echos on a kart track," kind of gives away the basic bent of the reviewers and may be instructive as to why the ECHO faired so poorly in the court of their opinion. Perhaps no one told them the ECHO is not a sports car?
Well... Damn, I didn't exercise this morning. When I wake up at 5:30 am and looked out the windows.... snow!!!!! Anyway, I parked the Echo in a car porch so it doesn't take me too long to leave my apartment to go to work at about 9:00 (he he he... no scrapping).
Hmm... 2 weeks after driving on my new Echo... get used to everything already. The Echo does handle snow very well, I think it's because it's light. The Tracker I had does the same thing. Anyway, I was on my way to work, took 75th st heading east. left turned to Metcalf... The road was pretty bad, not salted very much. As I said before, the road I commute is pretty hilly. I sliped a little bit when going up hill, that was because I shifted gear on my way to climb the hill. But the Echo does the job very well, I was able to control the car by release the gas pedal while sticking to lower gear. I know this is going to reduce the gas millage a lot but that's the way you're suppose to drive on winter/snow day when you're driving a stick car. I don't know how I'm going to react if I own an Auto transmission car as the only way to decelerate is using the break, which make the situation worse if you're slipped. Anyway, I'm happy with the Echo during snow day... it hurt to see my Echo picked up the mud on my way to work...poor Echo.
I drove to NY from PA last Friday and had my last problem with the truck. A friend that I was visiting had purchased an Echo earlier this year, which I had ample time driving.
I found the drive of his Echo to be great. Handling, fuel, acceleration, seating, for me this is a great vehicle. And even on the highway when the tractor/trailers fly past, you do not get sucked in.
The ride home to PA was great on Sunday, 200 miles and very comfortable. Ventilation in the car is great, that you do not feel stuffy. Visibility is great, sitting up high. Leg room ... well actually, if the seat is in the far back position as I had in the Dodge, I would not be able to drive ... so, the Echo seems to have more leg room (extended) then the Dodge had. Very impressive.
On the minus side ... the side mirrors manual control, but as long as no one plays with them or bumps them with the fat butt getting out of their Suburban, they will be OK ... and the manual windows, but since I no longer smoke, I should not have to roll the windows down to air out the interior and if I get behind an oil burner, then I can re-circulate the air instead of bringing in 'fresh'.
As the winter goes on, I will post my feelings then.
I also traded in a truck (F150 4x4) on my new Echo. I can't tell you how much I enjoy filling the tank ! Highway mileage is twice the F150's. City mileage is 3 times !
We have about a foot of snow here so far but only got it 2-3 inches at a time, so no need for snow tires yet. We just drive over it on most streets.
I just washed it the other day to make sure I got all the fall salt off of it. It's staying really clean now that we're in the winter deep freeze. Even the tires are staying nice and black. I've been leaving the windows down about 3mm (1/8") when I park it outside to let the humidity out, and they've stayed completely clean. I can just jump in and go anywhere because the electric heater stays one step ahead of the moisture from my breath. In 30 plus years of driving I've never seen anything like it....
P.S. When the Beetle first came out everyone said it looked "funny" too ! I bought a '59 Bug in 1966. I just about froze my rear end off during the first winter until I bought a gas heater for it. The heater worked fine except it used more gas than the car ! I took the rear seat back out and made a "playpen" in the back. I had a lot of fun in that little love bug.....
1) More interior space and less exterior size for the Echo.
2) Folding rear seat was standard equipment on canadian Echos vs. not available on the entry level Corolla. My brother had to ask me to bring his daughters bike home one day because of this.
3) Better gas mileage and better acceleration for the Echo.
4) Lower weight = easier on the environment during manufacture and use.
5) About 2000 fewer loonies ($CDN).
6) I liked the "hybrid vehicle / futuristic" styling associated with the lower drag coefficient (0.30).
If you don't have heated garage available to you, take it to a dept. store or hotel with a heated garage and leave it there for a few hours while you go shopping, eating, drinking or whatever you like to do.
I used to wait for my Company's Christmas party each year to wash my car because they always held it in a hotel with a heated garage....
The Echo is a car that excels in all the daily practical aspects but goes against the common (sports car enthusiast's) wisdom in the area of raw power and handling. It's very hard to see why a 2 litre engine is superior to a 1.5 litre engine if the smaller engine will accelerate just as quickly UNLESS you have been indoctrinated into the more is better way of thinking.
It also occurred to me that the usual put downs of small cars related to reliability and depreciation obviously don't apply to Toyotas so the reviewers had to search pretty hard to find fault with a car which doesn't fit the mold, hence the digs about the appearance and weight etc.
thanks again,
a very happy Echo lover
Moses, I did not even know that Annie had been on. I just have a lot of thoughts running around in my head and I never know what I am going to be thinking about. I just started thinking, "Tomorrow, I go to the credit union, tomorrow I go to the credit union." And the first thing I know, I hear Andrea McCardle singing Tomorrow.
My present car does not have a rear window defroster and the front heater is not that strong so it took me over an hour to scrap the windows so I could get to work. I was about 23 minutes late, but no biggie since I don't think anybody was on time today. The car handled pretty well and a lot better than other cars. It has been a good car and I will be a little sad when I have to park it, but I am really looking forward to getting my Echo.
Honestly, this weather has me thinking that if I get approved tomorrow (and I should), I might just forgo the ABS and the side impact airbags and get my Echo on Thursday. I guess if I go to the dealership and they have an Echo with the rest of the items on my wish list, maybe I should take that as a sign.
I need to go do some research at Carsdirect.com about the price of Echos optioned without the ABS and side impact airbags so this is goodbye for the night, probably.
I was scheduled off for a vacation day for Monday so I did not have to get my lil red baby out on the road. I will find out tommorrow how well it does. It is supposed to be nasty here in KC tommorrow also. They have already cancelled school for my kids for Tues. I guess I will find out "tommorrow". :}
To the Florida Echo Owner,
Congrats. I love my 4 door Red Echo. I have a BIG family of 4. My husband is 6'6" and my kids are both taller than me. We fit nicely in the Echo.