I wrote Edmunds and pointed out that their site does not show the 60/40 split fold rear seat as part of an upgrade package for the Echo while the 2001 Toyota Echo brochure clearly shows that it is. They said they would check it out and make corrections if necessary.
I also told them that I did not think it was a good idea that a person could select a package and then select an item in the package and/or select two items that could not go together.
To their credit, they pointed out that they had a disclaimer about that sort of thing and I had missed it.
If you know what you are doing and you know what options come in packages and what options cannot go together, I think the Edmunds configuration system is okay. If you do not know what you are doing or are not sure, I think the best configuration system I have come across is the Carsdirect.com system. If you select some option that requires another option be selected first, it tells you. If you select an upgrade package, it selects all the options in that package for you. If you select an option that means you cannot select another option, it blacks out the other option.
Well time to turn the computer over to my roommate so I will say good night to you all.
Ok, this is confusing, "marri", did you special ordered your Seafoam Blue Echo or your dealer swap it for you? I called another dealer (which was refer by Autobytel.com) and asked them about it..... He checked it with their computer about car order for the next 3 months, and returned with the news that Toyota is not building the Seafoam Blue and Gold color for the next 3 months!!!
He did tell me that there is a Seafoam Blue in Northon Nebraska but that one is already sold... I can't take that one... Make sure the one you're getting is 2001 model. You placed your order one month ago, which was about 2 weeks earlier then me... so they just stop building that color recently... I'm too late to place my order... there many possibilities. I suspect that yours is not special order from the manufacturer, if it is special built then why there is missing power lock and spoiler?
echoluvrst, what is TDA? I called my dealer to negotiate more on the price but have no success... they said it's not a manufacturer build car so they have to pay people to put on the spoiler, the wheel, and the security.... so, part of the reason the price can't go lower because of those labor fee... oh well, whatever... I can live with that, but I still can't get over with the fact that I can't get the Seafoam Blue, if the one in Nebraska is available, I will take that one if I have to go up there and drive it back. Man, don't let me see any Seafoam Blue Echo in Kansas City, otherwise I will stare at that Echo with tears and hate my Red Echo.... BTW, I will pick mine up on Friday.
I have missed the past 50 or so posts so I missed most of your story. I will comment on a couple of things you mentioned in your last post. The TDA fee is a regional fee that the dealership pays on the invoice. It stands for Toyota Dealer Association but it really is an advertising fee. The dealer really does pay it on the invoice and doesn't get it back.
If the car came from the factory with the options you mention, the costs would be less. When the dealer installs things like a spoiler, he has a lot more people to pay and therefore his costs are higher. From reading just this one post from you, it sounds like your dealer is being fairly level with you on this.
The color issue is more difficult to explain. Each region orders the cars from Toyota. If a particular color is not popular in that region, they may not order any. This doesn't mean you wont ever see one because they can always change their orders in the future.
When I was typing the title, I almost typed Norm and Cliff. : ) Anyway.
Moses, at least you tried to get the price down. Not being a car salesman, I did not take into account that some of the options might be dealer installed and not factory installed ones.
Cliff, I guess by implication, you are saying that there might be wiggle room in the price the dealer wants for my factory ordered Echo since all the options are ones that should be installed at the factory in the case of my Echo? Am I understanding you correctly?
One more final question to Moses. You say you have the Toyota coupon from Edmunds. I am thinking about getting it, but how quickly did it arrive. I have a little more than two weeks before I go in to order my Echo.
Finally, one final question to Cliffy. If I order an Echo and I do not have the coupon in hand, can I still use it when the Echo comes in and I go to take delivery?
Had a huge snow storm today many highways outside my city were closed (Im in Ontario, Canada) I was a little nervous after I finished work about my drive home (about a 10 min drive) but the ECHO handled beautifully!! I never slid or felt the car go out of my control at all!! I have driven a civic for 8 years previous (and it had ABS, which my ECHO does not) and I feel the ECHO handled better than the civic did! Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in the states!!!
We've only had about 6" of snow so far here in Manitoba, but like Janbee, I'm very happy with the way my Echo is handling it. So far, I've been procrastinating about the snow tires. At this rate, I may not need them !
On the AOL auto board that I frequent, we have started talking about driving in snow and someone posted that skinny tires do better in snow so maybe the skinny tires on the Echo is why it does well (so far) in the snow.
For all who celebrate, have a Happy Thanksgiving! For all who don't and have the day off. Enjoy..
Haven't had the time to get back on.. Busy going to school at night, trying to stay smarter than my two teenage daughters. My Echo driver, she is doing well, finally got the approval for her to get the Echo fixed..
I have been with you all since the beginning of the Echo forumn. And what a friendly and warm place it has been. Thank you all for the wonderful experience. Special greeting goes out to Kristi4 and Jmmurman, have a wonderful holidays, and best wishes to your soon to arrive baby.
Cliff, thanks for the info... Now I can sleep better knowing that I didn't get rip off. I'm picking up my Echo this afternoon.... 5 more hours to go... man, I can't wait. I believe Toyota will build Seafoam Blue in the future if there's a demand, but for now, I believe they stop building for the whole US, or the whole western country. Some guy in Canada said the Seafoam Blue is not available as well.
echoluvrst, for the Discount Coupon, it arrive very early. I ordered it on weekend (I think it was Saturday) and arrived at my mail box on Wednesday. I'm not using FedEx (just don't want to pay extra for a piece of paper), so I went with the 1st class mail (no extra charge). 1st Class mail normally take 2 days so you should get it within one week. I ordered it online using Credit card, and that should speed up the process.
I assume you're buying from Molle Toyota. If possible, you should try out Carpoint to get online quote from Molle, they have special Internet offer. I remember last time I tried to get a quote of 2001 RAV 4 from Molle, they replied me with the MSRP of $22,500, and then they said there is an Internet offer which the price is $21,195 (a difference close to $1000). If you can get a cheaper quote, bring that paper and walk into Molle and negotiate more.
Don't show them the coupon until you're happy with the price, and ready to sign the order paper. They will make a copy of the coupon and keep in file, and you will give them the coupon when you pay your money (when you pick up the car).
Can you do me a flavor? If you do buy from Molle, can you put me down as your reference, I can get $50, he he he...... Trying to save as much as possible. Just tell Mary Wit/Randy (or the salesman that entertained you) that you're refered by Moses Ong.
Oh well, now I have to say good by to my old tracker and ready to drive me new toy!
my local dealer says i will have to wait 4 months for an echo with an ABS package and a side air bag.
one dealer (not from my immediate area) told me over the phone that for a car as light as the echo, the anti lock brakes are barely necessary, but i read one review of the echo that was very favorable but said do not buy this car WITHOUT antilock brakes. One of these people must be right and the other must be wrong. Which one?
Option prices on factory (or port) accessories are exactly as listed on Edmunds or any other invoice site. If they are added at the dealership, the costs are higher.
As to the coupon, use it when you actually go to sign the final deal after the car has come in. Keep in mind that there are a finite number of these printed for each region. I know for a fact that there are no more available in the Central Atlantic Region.
Congrats on the purchase. The lack of seaform blue is not a nationwide thing. I just sold one last month in that color but as I mentioned, each region is responsible for what the dealers get. Our region still orders them but they are our slowest sellers.
Maybe someone can help me figuring how to get a CD player into my Echo. I purchased the AM/FM Cassette option which retailed for $170. So I have a nice sound system but my daughter really wants a CD player.The top slot in the audio control unit just has a false front. I went to the Toyota dealer and asked a service rep what could I do to get just a single CD player installed. He looked at my car and said it was a cinch, since all the controls are already in place. Maybe a half hour to put it in. I should just go to Parts and get the player. Fine, into the Parts department. There I find that the simple, slim CD unit retails at $375. As my jaw dropped the parts man said he could give me a $50 break, but that's about all. He readily admitted the price was way too high. But of course going to an audio shop is likely to perhaps void my warranty. Maybe I need to find a wrecked Echo and try to get that CD unit out? Not likely I will find one here in Hawaii. Does anyone have any ideas how I can get my system upgraded without inordinate expense? Any idea would be much appreciated.
Actually, when I decided on the Echo I used my computer to go to the websites of most of the dealers. I think the only dealer that I did not do this with was Adams Toyota, but in their case, I used the computer to send a letter after I went to the dealership.
I received quotes from all of them except one dealer whom I never heard back from. I would ask them for a quote, but it is kind of late in the game and also they are the ones I went to and we could not come to terms on an Echo already on the ground. If I cannot come to terms on a cheaper Echo, they probably won't give me a good deal on a more expensive one.
I had previously let the dealers that had written me back know what the low quote was and let them try to beat it. One dealer dropped out and said there was no way he could come close. Two others have stopped writing me, but I am going to try to entice them back. Another dealer that I had trouble getting a quote from beat the low quote by $200 after I told him what the low quote was and that I planned on getting service at the same place I purchased the car from.
Molle is one of the dealerships still in the running, but Moses, I am sorry that I cannot give your name as a reference if I purchase the car. One, I am already dealing with the internet manager, Virgil. Two, that would not be fair to Melody who also suggested I check into Molle. As a solution, how about I tell Virgil that both of you should be put down as references and what he does with that info is up to him?
The reviews about ABS being needed to improve stopping distances are why I want ABS, but I was thinking. If it is not a panic brake, then ABS won't even be active and so how can ABS shorten the braking distance in normal conditions?
My roommate and I are going to go visit two of the dealerships on my short list. One of them is one I am still writing to and one is one of the two that have stopped writing me.
We are going on the pretext of looking for a car for her. I am going to be something of an invisible man and see how we are treated.
I am serious about wanting to take my car for servicing to the same place I purchased it from and so I want to feel comfortable with whatever dealership I buy it from.
After we take a test drive in whatever car she wants, I am going to ask to take a test drive in a manual Echo.
I will let you know how it goes when we get back, but for now time for breakfast and then the car dealers.
Thanks for the consideration, but it does not matter to me if you put Moses down as the person that referred you. I just want you to get a good deal and end up with an Echo that will make you happy. My little car keeps me happy. I have had to get used to the feel of the car on the highway. It does requires a good grip on the wheel and attention to what you are doing. I am getting fantastic mileage, about 38-42 miles to the gallon. I am trying not to drive on the highway a lot until I have a few more miles on the car.
My roommate and I are back home from our test drives and it was a so, so day. First we stopped off at the dealership that has been really good about writing me back and met a nice salesman.
My roommate bailed on "being" the car buyer and did not want to do the driving so I did the honors. We test drove a RAV4 first and boy the salesman could not do enough for us. Nice little SUV. Very comfortable seats and the automatic seems to have plenty of plenty of get up and go.
His face sank when I told him that I also wanted to test drive the Echo. It was a dirty white one, but he must have read my mind because while I did tell him that I was most interested in a four door manual, I did not tell him what options except for CD player with cassette. He proceeded to pull up in a white one (as I said) with four doors, manual and every option I want except ABS, side impact airbags, and spoiler. He handed me the keys and told us that we could take it by ourselves. He claimed to have an appointment. Off we went on a nice leisurely drive that included highway and some hilly city driving. People are right when they say the manual feels notchy, but it had nice pep and I liked being able to determine what gear to use when I was charging up the hill.
We brought the Echo back to the dealership and said our goodbyes to the salesman. I felt comfortable around him and the dealership. They are staying on my list.
We get to the next dealership who had stopped writing me and take a look at a gold RAV4. I tell a salesman that we are interested in it and want to take a test drive. He hits me with the fact that he needs to see my driver's license and my insurance. We were driving my roommate's car and while I had my license, I did not have my insurance card so we plan a little trip back home. Before we left, I asked the salesman's name and of all the dumb luck, I get the very salesman I had been corresponding with.
We get back and before handing over my driver's license and insurance card, I confess to the salesman who I am and that I am really "test driving" the dealership, but I am interested in the RAV4. At this point, my roommate is very interested in it, but still wants me to do the driving.
We get back to the dealership and my roommate and I are introduced to the internet manager. I again reinterate to the salesman and the manager that I fully expect to have a decision around the second week of December.
Now while I would be more comfortable with the (buying) payments on an Echo, I could probably also be comfortable with the (leasing) payments on a RAV4.
Since we were out test driving cars, I went out and test drove a car that competes with the Echo and I intended to test drive a vehicle that competes with the RAV4. As I stated, I was able to test drive the car, but they only had manual SUVs so I did not test drive that.
Anyway, we got to this dealership and a salesman approached us. There was a dumptruck for sale at the entrance of the dealership and for a joke, I told him that I was interested in test driving that. I quickly told him that I was joking and he told me that if I had been serious, he would have gotten the key.
The salesman showed me a vehicle and then took my driver's license and my insurance card to make copies. He handed me the keys and told us that we could take a test drive by ourselves. He wanted the car to sell itself. Score a point for him.
I took the car out and it started developing a rattle in the back end. I thought it was the license plate that he had put in the back window, but when we got to the dealership I had my roommate take it out of the window and the rattle continued. Take away a point from the car.
We went in to talk to the salesman and this is where the day went from being good to being so, so. First, he tried to downplay the rattle and did not seem concerned. Deduct the point he had gotten for the unaccompanied test drive.
He asked about other models I was looking at and I told him about the Echo and that I was looking at a special order. He had worked at a Toyota dealership before this dealership and he told me expect a year for a factory order. He also told me that the region is the one who controls the type of cars that come over and I would never get an Echo with ABS.
As you can imagine this threw a wet blanket over the whole search for "my" Echo.
Given what has happened to Moses, I am worried that this might be true. I am worried that a few weeks after placing my order, I will get a call from the dealership telling me that some edict has come down from Toyota and I will not be able to get my special order for the foreseeable future and they will invite me to look over what they have on the lot.
If that happens, I will not be understanding, I will not be forgiving, I will walk away from the deal and if I still want an Echo I will get it from some other dealer.
I plan on writing the three dealers that I have chosen to concentrate on doing business with and let them know how I feel. I will do it in a nice way though.
A look at my watch shows it is time for bed. Night all.
I think you can get a walkman cd player that will plug in to the cass player at wallmart for less than $60 and then it can be used out side of the car too. Thats is why I got the 3-1 because of the worntee problems with aftermarket stuff. Good luck and happy Thanksgiving everyone . Jeanne
If there is a decently-priced aftermarket CD out there that interfaces well with the factory radio, I think wrgraham should go for it. Normally I would be a proponent of upgrading everything, but I think Toyota actually did an acceptable job with the ECHO audio system. It might be helpful to discuss options with a car stereo shop.
Has anyone actually read the warranty? It should say something to the effect that warranty claims are denied if the aftermarket part is the actual cause of a normally waranteed failure. Don't let warranty fears unnecessarily corner you into Toyota OEM stuff if there are quality alternatives available.
I was reading the warranty information that came with my ECHO and I thought I would pass a couple of things on to listers. First is that if the ECHO needs towing to a Toyota dealer while under warranty, the towing is on Toyota. Second is if you have Toyota replace your shocks, struts, or exhaust system (it said pipes and muffler, not sure about the catalytic converter) Toyota warranties these things for the life of the car, including labor. If you get the "lifetime warranty" from someplace like Midas, they ONLY warranty the muffler, not the pipes and not the labor, which makes a mockery of the "lifetime warranty". Of course, I havn't PRICED the cost of having Toyota do the work, but you might keep the above in mind when pricing repairs.
I have read a lot of horror tales on this site about insurance quotes and would like to suggest that owners, future and present, take a look at this on-line company.
It is owned by General Electric and was formerly limited to employees, etc. but is now open to everyone and can write stand alone auto policies. (We also have our house and a dirt cheap umbrella policy). Anyway, living in Missouri, and having a full 100/200/10, collision, uninsured coverage, etc. we are paying only $ 445 per year. This is subject to an employee 5% discount and another 5% safe driver discount. Even if they quote around $ 500 per year this is a tremendous price and much lower than many others. They are a direct writer which avoids agents who skim off 1/3 of the premium but I have dealt with them for a few years and am very satisfied.
Our '88 Toyota wagon is priced at $ 297 per year.
Take a look as I am sure there are other similar companies out there.
P.S. Their "extended warranty" runs about $ 720 a year for an ECHO - not a good deal for anyone.
I have been toodling around Sacramento for a month in Cavaliers from Avis. A most unimpressive car. It is the paragon of mediocrity. Average everything except ABS, which sux, clunky, grabby, whiny.
I got a Ford Focus SE from Hertz today. Nice little car! It feels solid & substantial. BIG trunk. It came with power windows, power locks, & cruise control. Brakes are nice, pickup is OK, the interior is nice. Radio is killer. All in all, a nice solid car for someone looking for a compact. I think my Echo handles better & is peppier but that is probably just a bias on my part.
I would suggest test driving the following cars:
VW New Beetle Ford Focus Toyota Echo
for those looking at new compacts & whatever else you have your eye on before you make up your mind.
As I indicated in a previous post, I had test driven a competitor's car on Saturday and I might as well tell you which car it was. It was the Ford Focus and the recent post about the Focus is what prompted me to disclose this.
The one thing that really struck me in terms of differences between the Echo and the Focus is the same thing that Buzzhuse mentions. This is the fact that the Echo seems peppier than the Focus.
The Focus may be more substantial, but I bet someone can get out of danger faster in an Echo.
Both the Echo I test drove and the Focus were manuals and while the transmission and the shifting felt smoother in the Focus, I actually had more fun putting the Echo through its paces and the notchiness of the Echo did not bother me that much.
Well, I am training on front desk at work so I have to be at work earlier than normal tomorrow so it is time for me to call it a night.
I'm discovering the manual transmission in my ECHO is NOT like those of Toyota's I have owned in the past. It is not as smooth shifting. Several times I have shifted into neutral at a stop sign and it took several tries to get first gear. This weekend I was slowing down to make a turn from 45 mph in fifth gear, and it would not go into fourth. By the time four gear engaged I was going 20 mph and had to stop in the middle of the intersection when it would not go into second right away. Another person behind me, also turning left, did not realize I could not move the car and nearly slammed into me. Do other ECHO's with manual transmissions shift this poorly? I suggest anyone thinking about buying an ECHO with a manual transmission test drive one before buying. My dealer had only one car with an automatic to test drive.
thanks for the information and response to my questions about aftermarket cruise control systems (it was many posts back but I've been out of the country and I'm just catching up!) Thanks again.
After 1st full day with car: Echo does better on acceleration & going uphill. This is definitely NOT my imagination.
Power steering seems different on Focus. I don't know why, it is very responsive but the Echo's seems...more sensitive?...quicker?...Too subtle to tell. Maybe it's the fact the Focus is a slightly heavier car & it just SEEMS different.
My husband called me at work today to tell me his car (92 Lebaron) would not start. MY old car (88 Cavalier), is in poor shape (runs, but dies frequently). That means if I had not bitten the bullet and bought my car a few weeks ago, we would be stranded today. Wish I could afford to dump the 2 old cars and buy one more Echo. My hubby says first estimates to fix his $300, $600. My life would suck right now if I did not have my Echo. I LOVE MY ECHO!
It is interesting to read buzzhuse's comparison of Echo performance as compared to Focus. I often shake my head at how the auto mags when comparing cars pay so little attention to fuel economy. I think there is just no excuse for small cars with 4 cylinder engines to get less than 30mpg. Yet cars like the Focus don't, and don't seem to catch any heat for it. Even my old Camry with a 4 cyl engine always got at least 30mpg. Now the Echo has raised the bar some more. Honda Civics have also delivered some very good economy over the years. My sisters 84 Civic with 1300cc engine was always near or above the 40mpg mark.
I bought a 2000 Echo, the first one on the lot at the local dealer, and the first one in my town, last October 99. I waited for 5 months since the first time I heard about the Echo, and to this day I LOVE my car. I am still getting compliments from strangers. I have had no problems whatsoever and I do not plan on changing my car for a very very long time. After reading what edmunds.com wrote about the Echo I was sad. This car has not given me any problems and is very spacious, at least for me. I don't have kids and don't pack a lot of people into my car. In fact my friend bought a Focus and has has so many problems with it. Toyotas are good quality cars, and I feel that the people who wrote the article need to take a better look at it. Hey, at least I can park in those "compact" parking spots, unlike the SUVs which have to find a spot big enough. I love driving down the street and having people look at my car, it makes me feel good. And when I see an Echo on the road, I always look, just to see what others are seeing.. Its a cute little car. It was meant for us high school/college kids because we don't have kids of our own to take with us. Thats what these people who write this commentary need to realize.. yeah there might be these other cars coming out, like the Rio, but the Echo is sleek and not something you see everyday. Thats what attracted me to it, because it doesn't look like these everyday "old people" cars... The Echo is the Future, and it appeals to me and my friends. But then again we aren't the ones writing these articles.... if we did then you'd see.... "TOYOTA ECHO... A GREAT LITTLE CAR FOR US YOUNG STUDENTS!"
O, no. I'm not a big Focus fan and will readily admit all the known Focus flaws. But just can't withstand the FACT distortion (while shaking my head).
Let start with the official figures:
5 speed '01 Camry - City 23; Hwy 32 5 speed '01 Focus - City 25; Hwy 33
From my real life experience I can tell you that I easily get the claimed 33 mpg out of the moderate highway driving. (65 - 75 mph). The Camry will never get over 30mpg in the pure city driving. It's just not true. The Focus is not the lightest car in its class. Its engine is tuned more towards the lower rpm torque performance rather than fuel economy. And yes, it's very stable in the crosswinds. In other words, the Focus is not a class leading fuel miser: it wasn't designed that way and will never be. Please don't compare it with the lower displacement, torque numbers Civics etc. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Well, I own my Echo for 2.5 days as for now... Hmm.... let me see. Yeah, I'm having problem with the transmition as well. It is pretty tough to shift into 1st and 2nd gear. Shifting to 3rd and other gears are easy. I just own this car for not long, so I believe once I have get use to it, everything should be fine. I'm a stick person, have been driving manual car since I was in highschool. Anyway, for now I'm still afraid to be the first car on the traffic light, I'm still not use to the "cluth"(don't know how to spell it) and everything.
The power steering is a little bit hard to control for me, especially making sharp turn. However, this is the first time I use a power steering car... it takes time to get use to it.
For now, I'm very happy with my Echo. I was leaving from my Gym yesterday morning... a middle age man walk pass my car and stare at it.. he he he...did I tell you the one I have is a real sharp red Echo?It sure catch attention easily ....way to go Echo!
it isn't everything. Torque is a better measure of how a car accelerates but there is more to it than that. Horsepower is measured at the flywheel which means there is no drag from the gearing or differential. Horsepower at the wheels is a different matter but that number is never published. Good engineering can mean better HP at the wheels than a car with poor engineering and a higher HP rating at the flywheel.
The moral; drive it and see if it has what you need.
130 hp is 20% more powerful than 108 hp. 400 lbs is 20% of 2100 lbs. I guess they even each other out. THe vvt-i must be the clincher cause I swear the accel in the Focus is doggy when you punch it. The little Echo turns into a real [non-permissible content removed] (you have to watch yourself until you get used to it, you'll be doing 80 when you wnat to be doing 55) when you floor it.
How about gearing? The Focus gets relatively tall gears. Yes, it feels kind of sluggish off the stop line. On the other hand, it makes the engine turn slower than in the Protege and the Civic at the highway speeds. Lower rpms - less buzz. Actually it pulls very strongly and quietly, ones you get on the freeway. I believe it's very quiet and smooth at high speeds for an economy car. Believe it or not I regularly exceed 90 mph for short periods of time on my way to work and back. And the car feels incredibly stable and surefooted. I heard that the European Focus with the 2.0 Liter engine pulls up to 125 mph. Even with its horrible .35 Cdx for a hatch. The N.A. one is governed at 108 mph. I wonder what rpms your tachometer would register at say, 70 mph. Unfortunately Toyota decided not to install one in the Echo.
Moses, I am glad to hear that you are enjoying your Echo. Yes, red is an eye catching color. Especially the eye of a cop if you are speeding. It is so eye catching that two cars (a red one and a white one) can both be going over the speed limit by the same amount and it seems like the cop will pull the red one over.
I wrote to two of the three dealers about my concerns about doing a special order and one so far has written me back basically telling me that I will get my Echo the way I ordered it in 120 to 150 days from date of order. This was the dealer who is very good about writing me back.
If the past (and the present) is any indicator of the future, I might be better off going with these people. They do seem responsive to my needs and questions.
I have about two weeks to go before I do the special order (pending financial approval) and I am getting short timer's syndrome.
Not sure what, but I am going to go find something to do to take my mind off cars. I know! Go to work! LOL. Bye.
Well, as for my Echo concern, I don't think I will speed. I mean I'm not the kind of person like to press the fuel pedel all the way down to make the engine scream. Even on the Highway, I only drive at max 65 mph where the speed limit is 60 Mph. Plus/minus 5 or 10 of the speed limit will not get me any trouble. When off the highway I stick to 4th gear which will not get me more than 50 mph....
I'm starting to get use to the gear and the power steering. So, my friend and I will be going for Xmas shopping this weekend, wonder what would be their response when they see my Echo.
Hmm... Also, I think I'm going to give my Echo a carwash this weekend. I have to apply some paint protector. I used to use the Armour Paint Protector on my red Tracker and it does a very good job. I don't have to wax the car and it protect the paint and wax (the paint is still very shinny after a few month), hopefully the weather is going to be fine this weekend.
Well, good luck in your Black Echo, I'm sure you won't have any problem with that color as at least I saw a few in the dealer's parking lot, it's available in this region.
Got to go, still haven't read the Echo manual yet.
PS: Oh, did I tell you that the dealer left the cargo net in the Echo? Well, I didn't order it but they just simply pull the only Red Echo from their lot and add those stuff I want and give it to me, I got the free cargo net by accident, he he he.... The Echo is new that when I get it, it has only 13 mile on it.
Make sure you get the Toyota Coupon as I was told by the dealer that they're running out.
Yes, on the hiway, it drives fine. I think this is what it was designed for. Driving on 50 from SE Sac, CA, to SW Sac, CA, in the dark was terrifying in the Cavalier. In the Focus, it's fine.
The interior & steering makes it feel like you are driving a larger car but there are 3 interior irritants, the headlights are a rotating switch on the dashboard & the armrest gets in the way of my right elbow. This AM, I pulled down the visor & it actually brushed my forehead.
This Sat, a friend & I will drive the 80 miles to San Fran. I want to drive the Focus rather than his Sebring to see how it does on the longer trips.
I would like to be able to transport skis and bicycles in my new car. With its high and light build I suspect that it may be unsafe to mount a roof rack on an Echo. Does anyone have any experience/suggestions?
buzzhuse, what engine does your rental Focus have? There are two engines available: SPI - single overhead cam and DOHC Zetec. You can easily tell them apart by looking at the valve cover. Also I suggest you put it through the twisties. Handling is one of its biggest selling points.
Prolly the SPI. It is, after all, a rental from Hertz. As for twisties, in San Fran is the twistiest road in the world (as made famous on the Big Silver Screen. See the movie "The Love Bug".). I want to drive it, both up & down, & have my friend drive it.
BTW, I think it's a great little car. I can see why they as comman as they are.
I too have a silver Echo that I'm very happy with. So far, I can safely say that it's the best car I've ever owned and I've owned a few because I'm in my fifties and I bought my first car when I was 16. ( A 1956 Ford Coach with a manual transmission and a 272 CID overhead valve V8 ). It burned rubber all the way down the block and burned more oil than gas! I used to say "fill up the oil and check the gas"!!
Anyway, the Echo is not just a great car for students like you but also for old geezers like me as well. I just say the tail end of an interview with David Suzuki (a famous Canadian Environmentalist). I'm not sure what kind of car he drives but I think it must have been a hybrid because he said that he paid 30,000 (CDN?) and got up to 80 MPG. Anyway, when asked about the appearance of his car he said he didn't care about the appearance at all because he looked at a car as a way to get from A to B.
However, I ,like you, do care about appearance somewhat and I aggree that the Echo is very advanced looking, particularly when you consider that it apparently has the lowest coefficient of drag of any compact on the market today.
I'm constantly impressed with the attention to detail in the design. For example, have you noticed that if someone is overtaking you, and happens to be slightly behind, I.E. in your blind spot, when you signal to change lanes that the other driver can see your turning signal from the FRONT end of your car ?? The signal lens is designed so that it can be seen from almost a 270 degree angle ! Just last night I was out driving and looked around for another vehicle that has that kind of (front signal) viewing angle and I couldn't find one ! How about that !
Comments
I also told them that I did not think it was a good idea that a person could select a package and then select an item in the package and/or select two items that could not go together.
To their credit, they pointed out that they had a disclaimer about that sort of thing and I had missed it.
If you know what you are doing and you know what options come in packages and what options cannot go together, I think the Edmunds configuration system is okay. If you do not know what you are doing or are not sure, I think the best configuration system I have come across is the Carsdirect.com system. If you select some option that requires another option be selected first, it tells you. If you select an upgrade package, it selects all the options in that package for you. If you select an option that means you cannot select another option, it blacks out the other option.
Well time to turn the computer over to my roommate so I will say good night to you all.
He did tell me that there is a Seafoam Blue in Northon Nebraska but that one is already sold... I can't take that one... Make sure the one you're getting is 2001 model. You placed your order one month ago, which was about 2 weeks earlier then me... so they just stop building that color recently... I'm too late to place my order... there many possibilities. I suspect that yours is not special order from the manufacturer, if it is special built then why there is missing power lock and spoiler?
echoluvrst, what is TDA? I called my dealer to negotiate more on the price but have no success... they said it's not a manufacturer build car so they have to pay people to put on the spoiler, the wheel, and the security.... so, part of the reason the price can't go lower because of those labor fee... oh well, whatever... I can live with that, but I still can't get over with the fact that I can't get the Seafoam Blue, if the one in Nebraska is available, I will take that one if I have to go up there and drive it back. Man, don't let me see any Seafoam Blue Echo in Kansas City, otherwise I will stare at that Echo with tears and hate my Red Echo.... BTW, I will pick mine up on Friday.
If the car came from the factory with the options you mention, the costs would be less. When the dealer installs things like a spoiler, he has a lot more people to pay and therefore his costs are higher. From reading just this one post from you, it sounds like your dealer is being fairly level with you on this.
The color issue is more difficult to explain. Each region orders the cars from Toyota. If a particular color is not popular in that region, they may not order any. This doesn't mean you wont ever see one because they can always change their orders in the future.
Moses, at least you tried to get the price down. Not being a car salesman, I did not take into account that some of the options might be dealer installed and not factory installed ones.
Cliff, I guess by implication, you are saying that there might be wiggle room in the price the dealer wants for my factory ordered Echo since all the options are ones that should be installed at the factory in the case of my Echo? Am I understanding you correctly?
One more final question to Moses. You say you have the Toyota coupon from Edmunds. I am thinking about getting it, but how quickly did it arrive. I have a little more than two weeks before I go in to order my Echo.
Finally, one final question to Cliffy. If I order an Echo and I do not have the coupon in hand, can I still use it when the Echo comes in and I go to take delivery?
For all who don't and have the day off. Enjoy..
Haven't had the time to get back on.. Busy going to school at night, trying to stay smarter than my two teenage daughters. My Echo driver, she is doing well, finally got the approval for her to get the Echo fixed..
Once again have a great day!
I have been with you all since the beginning of the Echo forumn. And what a friendly and warm place it has been. Thank you all for the wonderful experience.
Have fun people!
echoluvrst, for the Discount Coupon, it arrive very early. I ordered it on weekend (I think it was Saturday) and arrived at my mail box on Wednesday. I'm not using FedEx (just don't want to pay extra for a piece of paper), so I went with the 1st class mail (no extra charge). 1st Class mail normally take 2 days so you should get it within one week. I ordered it online using Credit card, and that should speed up the process.
I assume you're buying from Molle Toyota. If possible, you should try out Carpoint to get online quote from Molle, they have special Internet offer. I remember last time I tried to get a quote of 2001 RAV 4 from Molle, they replied me with the MSRP of $22,500, and then they said there is an Internet offer which the price is $21,195 (a difference close to $1000). If you can get a cheaper quote, bring that paper and walk into Molle and negotiate more.
Don't show them the coupon until you're happy with the price, and ready to sign the order paper. They will make a copy of the coupon and keep in file, and you will give them the coupon when you pay your money (when you pick up the car).
Can you do me a flavor? If you do buy from Molle, can you put me down as your reference, I can get $50, he he he...... Trying to save as much as possible. Just tell Mary Wit/Randy (or the salesman that entertained you) that you're refered by Moses Ong.
Oh well, now I have to say good by to my old tracker and ready to drive me new toy!
one dealer (not from my immediate area) told me over the phone that for a car as light as the echo, the anti lock brakes are barely necessary, but i read one review of the echo that was very favorable but said do not buy this car WITHOUT antilock brakes. One of these people must be right and the other must be wrong. Which one?
btw it's due in March or April, and it's a girl.
Abigail Echo Murray?
As to the coupon, use it when you actually go to sign the final deal after the car has come in. Keep in mind that there are a finite number of these printed for each region. I know for a fact that there are no more available in the Central Atlantic Region.
He readily admitted the price was way too high. But of course going to an audio shop is likely to perhaps void my warranty. Maybe I need to find a wrecked Echo and try to get that CD unit out? Not likely I will find one here in Hawaii. Does anyone have any ideas how I can get my system upgraded without inordinate expense? Any idea would be much appreciated.
I received quotes from all of them except one dealer whom I never heard back from. I would ask them for a quote, but it is kind of late in the game and also they are the ones I went to and we could not come to terms on an Echo already on the ground. If I cannot come to terms on a cheaper Echo, they probably won't give me a good deal on a more expensive one.
I had previously let the dealers that had written me back know what the low quote was and let them try to beat it. One dealer dropped out and said there was no way he could come close. Two others have stopped writing me, but I am going to try to entice them back. Another dealer that I had trouble getting a quote from beat the low quote by $200 after I told him what the low quote was and that I planned on getting service at the same place I purchased the car from.
Molle is one of the dealerships still in the running, but Moses, I am sorry that I cannot give your name as a reference if I purchase the car. One, I am already dealing with the internet manager, Virgil. Two, that would not be fair to Melody who also suggested I check into Molle. As a solution, how about I tell Virgil that both of you should be put down as references and what he does with that info is up to him?
The reviews about ABS being needed to improve stopping distances are why I want ABS, but I was thinking. If it is not a panic brake, then ABS won't even be active and so how can ABS shorten the braking distance in normal conditions?
My roommate and I are going to go visit two of the dealerships on my short list. One of them is one I am still writing to and one is one of the two that have stopped writing me.
We are going on the pretext of looking for a car for her. I am going to be something of an invisible man and see how we are treated.
I am serious about wanting to take my car for servicing to the same place I purchased it from and so I want to feel comfortable with whatever dealership I buy it from.
After we take a test drive in whatever car she wants, I am going to ask to take a test drive in a manual Echo.
I will let you know how it goes when we get back, but for now time for breakfast and then the car dealers.
My little car keeps me happy. I have had to get used to the feel of the car on the highway. It does requires a good grip on the wheel and attention to what you are doing. I am getting fantastic mileage, about 38-42 miles to the gallon. I am trying not to drive on the highway a lot until I have a few more miles on the car.
My roommate bailed on "being" the car buyer and did not want to do the driving so I did the honors. We test drove a RAV4 first and boy the salesman could not do enough for us. Nice little SUV. Very comfortable seats and the automatic seems to have plenty of plenty of get up and go.
His face sank when I told him that I also wanted to test drive the Echo. It was a dirty white one, but he must have read my mind because while I did tell him that I was most interested in a four door manual, I did not tell him what options except for CD player with cassette. He proceeded to pull up in a white one (as I said) with four doors, manual and every option I want except ABS, side impact airbags, and spoiler. He handed me the keys and told us that we could take it by ourselves. He claimed to have an appointment. Off we went on a nice leisurely drive that included highway and some hilly city driving. People are right when they say the manual feels notchy, but it had nice pep and I liked being able to determine what gear to use when I was charging up the hill.
We brought the Echo back to the dealership and said our goodbyes to the salesman. I felt comfortable around him and the dealership. They are staying on my list.
We get to the next dealership who had stopped writing me and take a look at a gold RAV4. I tell a salesman that we are interested in it and want to take a test drive. He hits me with the fact that he needs to see my driver's license and my insurance. We were driving my roommate's car and while I had my license, I did not have my insurance card so we plan a little trip back home. Before we left, I asked the salesman's name and of all the dumb luck, I get the very salesman I had been corresponding with.
We get back and before handing over my driver's license and insurance card, I confess to the salesman who I am and that I am really "test driving" the dealership, but I am interested in the RAV4. At this point, my roommate is very interested in it, but still wants me to do the driving.
We get back to the dealership and my roommate and I are introduced to the internet manager. I again reinterate to the salesman and the manager that I fully expect to have a decision around the second week of December.
Now while I would be more comfortable with the (buying) payments on an Echo, I could probably also be comfortable with the (leasing) payments on a RAV4.
Since we were out test driving cars, I went out and test drove a car that competes with the Echo and I intended to test drive a vehicle that competes with the RAV4. As I stated, I was able to test drive the car, but they only had manual SUVs so I did not test drive that.
Anyway, we got to this dealership and a salesman approached us. There was a dumptruck for sale at the entrance of the dealership and for a joke, I told him that I was interested in test driving that. I quickly told him that I was joking and he told me that if I had been serious, he would have gotten the key.
The salesman showed me a vehicle and then took my driver's license and my insurance card to make copies. He handed me the keys and told us that we could take a test drive by ourselves. He wanted the car to sell itself. Score a point for him.
I took the car out and it started developing a rattle in the back end. I thought it was the license plate that he had put in the back window, but when we got to the dealership I had my roommate take it out of the window and the rattle continued. Take away a point from the car.
We went in to talk to the salesman and this is where the day went from being good to being so, so. First, he tried to downplay the rattle and did not seem concerned. Deduct the point he had gotten for the unaccompanied test drive.
He asked about other models I was looking at and I told him about the Echo and that I was looking at a special order. He had worked at a Toyota dealership before this dealership and he told me expect a year for a factory order. He also told me that the region is the one who controls the type of cars that come over and I would never get an Echo with ABS.
As you can imagine this threw a wet blanket over the whole search for "my" Echo.
Given what has happened to Moses, I am worried that this might be true. I am worried that a few weeks after placing my order, I will get a call from the dealership telling me that some edict has come down from Toyota and I will not be able to get my special order for the foreseeable future and they will invite me to look over what they have on the lot.
If that happens, I will not be understanding, I will not be forgiving, I will walk away from the deal and if I still want an Echo I will get it from some other dealer.
I plan on writing the three dealers that I have chosen to concentrate on doing business with and let them know how I feel. I will do it in a nice way though.
A look at my watch shows it is time for bed. Night all.
Has anyone actually read the warranty? It should say something to the effect that warranty claims are denied if the aftermarket part is the actual cause of a normally waranteed failure. Don't let warranty fears unnecessarily corner you into Toyota OEM stuff if there are quality alternatives available.
http://www.electricinsurance.com/
It is owned by General Electric and was formerly limited to employees, etc. but is now open to everyone and can write stand alone auto policies. (We also have our house and a dirt cheap umbrella policy). Anyway, living in Missouri, and having a full 100/200/10, collision, uninsured coverage, etc. we are paying only $ 445 per year. This is subject to an employee 5% discount and another 5% safe driver discount. Even if they quote around
$ 500 per year this is a tremendous price and much lower than many others. They are a direct writer which avoids agents who skim off 1/3 of the premium but I have dealt with them for a few years and am very satisfied.
Our '88 Toyota wagon is priced at $ 297 per year.
Take a look as I am sure there are other similar companies out there.
P.S. Their "extended warranty" runs about $ 720 a year for an ECHO - not a good deal for anyone.
I got a Ford Focus SE from Hertz today. Nice little car! It feels solid & substantial. BIG trunk. It came with power windows, power locks, & cruise control. Brakes are nice, pickup is OK, the interior is nice. Radio is killer. All in all, a nice solid car for someone looking for a compact. I think my Echo handles better & is peppier but that is probably just a bias on my part.
I would suggest test driving the following cars:
VW New Beetle
Ford Focus
Toyota Echo
for those looking at new compacts & whatever else you have your eye on before you make up your mind.
The one thing that really struck me in terms of differences between the Echo and the Focus is the same thing that Buzzhuse mentions. This is the fact that the Echo seems peppier than the Focus.
The Focus may be more substantial, but I bet someone can get out of danger faster in an Echo.
Both the Echo I test drove and the Focus were manuals and while the transmission and the shifting felt smoother in the Focus, I actually had more fun putting the Echo through its paces and the notchiness of the Echo did not bother me that much.
Well, I am training on front desk at work so I have to be at work earlier than normal tomorrow so it is time for me to call it a night.
Power steering seems different on Focus. I don't know why, it is very responsive but the Echo's seems...more sensitive?...quicker?...Too subtle to tell. Maybe it's the fact the Focus is a slightly heavier car & it just SEEMS different.
engine always got at least 30mpg. Now the Echo has raised the bar some more. Honda Civics have also delivered some very good economy over the years. My sisters 84 Civic with 1300cc engine was always near or above the 40mpg mark.
I'm not a big Focus fan and will readily admit all the known Focus flaws.
But just can't withstand the FACT distortion (while shaking my head).
Let start with the official figures:
5 speed '01 Camry - City 23; Hwy 32
5 speed '01 Focus - City 25; Hwy 33
From my real life experience I can tell you that I easily get the claimed 33 mpg out of the moderate highway driving. (65 - 75 mph).
The Camry will never get over 30mpg in the pure city driving. It's just not true.
The Focus is not the lightest car in its class.
Its engine is tuned more towards the lower rpm torque performance rather than fuel economy. And yes, it's very stable in the crosswinds.
In other words, the Focus is not a class leading fuel miser: it wasn't designed that way and will never be. Please don't compare it with the lower displacement, torque numbers Civics etc. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Just my .00000002
The power steering is a little bit hard to control for me, especially making sharp turn. However, this is the first time I use a power steering car... it takes time to get use to it.
For now, I'm very happy with my Echo. I was leaving from my Gym yesterday morning... a middle age man walk pass my car and stare at it.. he he he...did I tell you the one I have is a real sharp red Echo?It sure catch attention easily ....way to go Echo!
What gives? THe weight difference can't be THAT big.
Is it the vvt-i? Whatever it is, I wish the rental companies had Echoes rather than Foci.
The Focus ZTS Curb Weight 2564-lbs
Extra 400 lbs. make a HUGE difference in the small cars.
Try to accelerate in your Echo just by yourself, then load it up with 3 medium size adult passengers and you will know what I'm talking about.
The moral; drive it and see if it has what you need.
Anybody know what the dyno for an Echo is?
130 hp is 20% more powerful than 108 hp. 400 lbs is 20% of 2100 lbs. I guess they even each other out. THe vvt-i must be the clincher cause I swear the accel in the Focus is doggy when you punch it. The little Echo turns into a real [non-permissible content removed] (you have to watch yourself until you get used to it, you'll be doing 80 when you wnat to be doing 55) when you floor it.
The Focus gets relatively tall gears.
Yes, it feels kind of sluggish off the stop line.
On the other hand, it makes the engine turn slower than in the Protege and the Civic at the highway speeds.
Lower rpms - less buzz.
Actually it pulls very strongly and quietly, ones you get on the freeway. I believe it's very quiet and smooth at high speeds for an economy car.
Believe it or not I regularly exceed 90 mph for short periods of time on my way to work and back.
And the car feels incredibly stable and surefooted. I heard that the European Focus with the 2.0 Liter engine pulls up to 125 mph. Even with its horrible .35 Cdx for a hatch.
The N.A. one is governed at 108 mph.
I wonder what rpms your tachometer would register at say, 70 mph.
Unfortunately Toyota decided not to install one in
the Echo.
I wrote to two of the three dealers about my concerns about doing a special order and one so far has written me back basically telling me that I will get my Echo the way I ordered it in 120 to 150 days from date of order. This was the dealer who is very good about writing me back.
If the past (and the present) is any indicator of the future, I might be better off going with these people. They do seem responsive to my needs and questions.
I have about two weeks to go before I do the special order (pending financial approval) and I am getting short timer's syndrome.
Not sure what, but I am going to go find something to do to take my mind off cars. I know! Go to work! LOL. Bye.
Well, as for my Echo concern, I don't think I will speed. I mean I'm not the kind of person like to press the fuel pedel all the way down to make the engine scream. Even on the Highway, I only drive at max 65 mph where the speed limit is 60 Mph. Plus/minus 5 or 10 of the speed limit will not get me any trouble. When off the highway I stick to 4th gear which will not get me more than 50 mph....
I'm starting to get use to the gear and the power steering. So, my friend and I will be going for Xmas shopping this weekend, wonder what would be their response when they see my Echo.
Hmm... Also, I think I'm going to give my Echo a carwash this weekend. I have to apply some paint protector. I used to use the Armour Paint Protector on my red Tracker and it does a very good job. I don't have to wax the car and it protect the paint and wax (the paint is still very shinny after a few month), hopefully the weather is going to be fine this weekend.
Well, good luck in your Black Echo, I'm sure you won't have any problem with that color as at least I saw a few in the dealer's parking lot, it's available in this region.
Got to go, still haven't read the Echo manual yet.
PS: Oh, did I tell you that the dealer left the cargo net in the Echo? Well, I didn't order it but they just simply pull the only Red Echo from their lot and add those stuff I want and give it to me, I got the free cargo net by accident, he he he.... The Echo is new that when I get it, it has only 13 mile on it.
Make sure you get the Toyota Coupon as I was told by the dealer that they're running out.
The interior & steering makes it feel like you are driving a larger car but there are 3 interior irritants, the headlights are a rotating switch on the dashboard & the armrest gets in the way of my right elbow. This AM, I pulled down the visor & it actually brushed my forehead.
This Sat, a friend & I will drive the 80 miles to San Fran. I want to drive the Focus rather than his Sebring to see how it does on the longer trips.
what engine does your rental Focus have?
There are two engines available: SPI - single overhead cam and DOHC Zetec. You can easily tell them apart by looking at the valve cover.
Also I suggest you put it through the twisties.
Handling is one of its biggest selling points.
You're most welcome. Let me know what you end up doing and how you get along. I'm still very happy with my SCS cruise and my "Echopod".
BTW, I think it's a great little car. I can see why they as comman as they are.
Anyway, the Echo is not just a great car for students like you but also for old geezers like me as well. I just say the tail end of an interview with David Suzuki (a famous Canadian Environmentalist). I'm not sure what kind of car he drives but I think it must have been a hybrid because he said that he paid 30,000 (CDN?) and got up to 80 MPG. Anyway, when asked about the appearance of his car he said he didn't care about the appearance at all because he looked at a car as a way to get from A to B.
However, I ,like you, do care about appearance somewhat and I aggree that the Echo is very advanced looking, particularly when you consider that it apparently has the lowest coefficient of drag of any compact on the market today.
I'm constantly impressed with the attention to detail in the design. For example, have you noticed that if someone is overtaking you, and happens to be slightly behind, I.E. in your blind spot, when you signal to change lanes that the other driver can see your turning signal from the FRONT end of your car ?? The signal lens is designed so that it can be seen from almost a 270 degree angle ! Just last night I was out driving and looked around for another vehicle that has that kind of (front signal) viewing angle and I couldn't find one ! How about that !