Toyota Echo

joebrautigam

has anyone had any luck finding a roof rack that fits the echo? I have a 2000 four door and for a year now have been waiting for Thule to offer a suitable fit. They keep saying soon.

canc

Could someone please explain why ABS brakes are available on US Echos, but not on Canadian Echos?

rfiglia

Yakima makes a rack for the Echo . go to www.yakima.com ,they are the same quality as Thule.

canc

I'd be interested in knowing if any of you had major problems with your Echo (mechanical, electrical, or otherwise). My choice would either be the Corolla, the Honda Civic or the Echo. The Echo has a price advantage but I'm just wondering about the reliability of this car.

Is it just me, or has this car started a "cult" trend, somewhat similar to the Beetle? I don't see this philosophy in other car forums such as the Corolla or Civic.

kneisl1

Right now abs is pretty hard to get in the US, but officially it IS availible. But why get ABS? It's more expensive, you don't get an insurance discount anymore (thats telling) It'ds going to be EXPENSIVE to fix when it gets older, and I've never felt I needed it.
As far as reliability, so far so good on my 2001 at three months and 2500 miles. This is a good well built car, and yes its pretty obvious that people like this car. My Mom tried to trade me her Camry for my ECHO, even up. (its a 2000 with 1800 miles on it) Sorry Mom, you'll have to get your own ECHO

kaz6

Yes, like kneisl1 my '01 Echo is trouble free. I now have 3600 miles in a little over 2 months. The 5-speed is much smoother now. As mentioned in a previous post, 2nd seems to be geared too high.
The engine is very silky! I do find that I get better low end performance with premium though it is not required.
During our recent hot spell in CA, I did find my a/c took a while to get the interior cool. The windows let in a lot of sunshine! My only concern with insulating the a/c line is the chance of corrosion from condensation between the insulation and the pipe. Any anecdotal advice?

majorthomecho

If I need to rest my left arm, I just use the edge of the window. It is at the perfect height for that. Since I have the manual, if I don't have my hand on the wheel, I have it on the gear shift knob. Not because I shift a lot, but because it feels comfortable.

I think the Echo has an almost cult following because of its unusual shape. It is a very polarizing feature. It seems like you either love it or hate it. The Corolla and the Civic do not have the shape so they don't have such a cult following although the Civic has a following among the street racers.

I don't think I can speak to reliability as I have not had my Echo for even two months yet and I have under 2000 miles on it. I will say that it has started every time and the gas mileage has been phenomenal.

I really appreciate the little touches like the front floor mats being hooked so they cannot slide. The floor mats in my Escort are not hooked and I finally had to remove the driver side mat because it curled up, slid, and interfered with driving. I also like all the Echo's little cubby holes. They have helped me keep things much better organized than in my Escort. The big options may be nice, but it is the little touches you end up appreciating the most, I feel.

Well time to do a few more things before I leave for work so it is time to sign off.

This is Major Thom. Over and out. : )

kneisl1

I think if you insulated the AC line it would not corrode. The line was insulated on my 240D rather heavily and that car was 21 years old when we parted and running rather well.
In a previous post I mentioned that I drive my ECHO with my right hand resting in my lap and my thumb and forefinger on the steering wheel. Someone mentioned this could be dangerous because of the airbag. I didn't understand the comment then, but I recently read that one should drive an airbag equipped car with ones hands at the three and nine o clock position because should it deploy, it might break your arm/hand/fingers if they were anywhere else on the steering wheel. I guess I can understand that. I wonder if we really need things like airbags in our cars that can hurt us inadvertantly like that. I guess if I had an accident I would be thankful for the airbag, but if it broke my arm in a nonthreatening accident I would not be happy.

vadp

Well, the Ford Focus mat is hooked too.
I guess all the new models have this feature.

joebrautigam

it has been exactly one year from delivery and after 33,000 miles the car still runs new. no mechanical problems at all. the highlight of our many trips was going 600 miles on one tank. lots of truck drafting returning to CT from CA. great little car.

tazereli

Two things

1) I get a discount for ABS on both my vehicles with my insurance company. Granted only one has 4 wheel antilock brakes. The other is a pickup and has only rear wheel antilock. But my insurance company doesnt need to know that. My insurance company also seems to think my keyless entry is a security system so there's another discount. Am I under obligation to report these mistakes to them and pay more as a result or just keep my mouth shut and pocket the savings?

2) As for ABS being more exensive to fix, I dont believe that base parts like pads, shoes, rotors and drums would be affected pricewise. The sensors and ABS computer are waht would add to the price of repair. The abs computer and sensors are what makes up most of an antilock system. The mechanicals (pads, calipers etc.) stay the same no matter if the car is equipped with ABS or not.

vocus

As far as them thinking the truck has 4-wheel ABS, that's not a big deal. I don't think you will run into problems with the theft system thing either, unless you car is ever stolen.

As far as ABS being more expensive to fix, that's not true. The computer is the only part that's expensive. Everything else is the same.

kneisl1

Yes I would agree that the rotors, pads, calipers, drums, and brake shoes of a conventional braking system which an abs system would share cost the same and are no more likely to fail on an abs system. There is more to abs than the computer and sensors however. Something has to apply the brakes off and on however many times a second is needed. And if these things fail, they ARE expensive. And IF they fail you may have a hard time finding a mechanic who knows how to diagnose exactly what is wrong and return it to a state of proper function. Of course in time mechanics will become quite familiar with them. In time. In the mean time I have been driving for 25 years without a single accident, and that includes winter driving to work everyday in upstate NY. I do not need ABS to be safe. Of course ABS could save your life, or keep you out of a serious accident. It would be interesting to know how many ABS systems have been made...and how many have prevented an accident or saved a life. I've heard air bags only save 1-2,000 lives a year. That's not a lot when you consider how many would be saved if people drove more carefully. And it would be interesting to know how many systems have saved the life of a person who was acting foolishly at the wheel. Or how many accidents have been caused by drivers who think "I have ABS. I can drive more aggressively."
Sort of like people who suffer from acid reflux who take pepsid before indulging in a meal that otherwise would cause them pain. I'm curious to know how much of a rebate one gets from the insurance if your car has ABS. I've heard that insurance companies have dropped this feature, but apparently not all. ABS costs $500 on ECHO. How much do you save a year on insurance?

dsgecho

You said you got 600 MILES on ONE tank of gas!!??Could you more fully describe the climate conditionns, any tailwinds etc. that may have contributed to this- because I think that you would have gotten between 55-60 mpg on that trip.
What kind of ECHO do you have and at what speeds were you driving during this time? Thanks for the info.
Don Gillespie

babyboomer

When I want to compare gas mileage,
I make sure I fill up the gas tank to the
maximum before and after the trip. I
keep popping the gas handle until I
see the gas at the top stay at the top.
I have to eyeball it so that no gas is spilled.
I think this method gives the most accurate
reading of how many gallons I use and my mpg.

lynnann1

Just received it for cataloging in the library today and looked up the 2000 ECHO. They have reliability as "Very good in its first year."

In the reliability history(engine, cooling, feel, ignition, tranny, etc.), almost everything listed has the red circles meaning 2.0% or less problems. Only 2 items in the history had the half red circle (2.0% - 5.0% problems) and they were Paint/trim and Integrity (meaning wind noise , seal, weather stripping, air and water leaks etc.

I guess that's pretty good and shows at least people who owned the car and replied to CR's polls liked the car and had no major complaints.

tazereli

I believe that my insurance gives us about a 3-5% discount for ABS. Since both of my vehicles came with ABS standard. There was no extra expense to make up for.

8k8mica

you were wondering sgp is Singapore. and besides myself in a blue echo sedan the only other one i saw was a silver one, i have not seen any other echo sedan on the road

babyboomer

Want to see another silver Echo?
Yall come on down to good ole south
Georgia, USA. I'll boil some peanuts
for you while we talk the common language
of Echoism.

danny28

Or, if you want a real change of climate, come on up to Winnipeg to see my little silver Echopod. I don't boil peanuts but I do make good beer. You can hoist a few cold ones while you warm up your extemities - minus 33C is tonight's forecast ! Brrrrr.

2nd cold test.
Out for 3 hours in the wind today at -25C. It started in 1 second, but I noticed the power steering took about 10 seconds to come to life. We still drove away with no warm-up and got no frost on the wind screen. Marvellous !

Reliability:
15,000 kms and 9 mos. with zero problems of any kind. I chose the Echo partly because it replaced the Tercel which is one of the most reliable cars sold in Canada. (ref. Canadian Automobile Association's web site - data provided by CAA members of their own experience on their own cars)

danny28

Here's the web site:

http://www.caa.ca/CAAInternet/automotive&consumerservices/frames1.htm

Click on "Toyota Tercel"

Note under "frequency of repair / overall customer satisfaction ZERO owners were "dissatisfied" !

danny28

Note that if you follow the link to this survey, the Tercel/Echo data is on p.15 of the .PDF file.

lynnann1

Or you can come to my tiny state of Delaware, where it was 64 yesterday and the temp has dropped from 55 at 6 to 46 at 9.21 and very windy today....

babyboomer

Wife is driving my Echo on weekends.
MY Echo is becoming OUR Echo.
Will next step be HER Echo?

danny28

You can count your blessings about sharing your Echo with your wife. My wife and daughter are taking turns with mine. That leaves me only enough time to wash it and fill the tank in between times.

Thank goodness it doesn't use much gas !

koyoteee

I've had my new green 5 speed Echo for 3 days now, and I love it! I can't get over what a design and engineering marvel this little car is, and how much fun it is to drive. Reading back through some of the posts, it sounds like most people here are similarly impressed. I changed from a Honda CR-V to save money, and I wouldn't go back (like the person who said they wouldn't trade their mom for her Camry I drove the new Civic, and wasn't impressed, crammed into that low front seat. One drive in the Echo, and it was "Wow!" Well, I'm off for a Sunday afternoon drive to anywhere!
New member from Ontario, Canada

janbee

Where in Ontario are you from?? There are a few canucks in this forum but unfortunately we seem to be spread in all directions...I have had my echo for 4 months now and love it as much as the first day I got it....happy echoing!

fredvan

who knows the engine revs. at 60 mph for the automatic transmission version of the echo?

koyoteee

Hello Janbee, thanks for the welcome. I am from Guelph, Ontario. How about you?

canc

it should be around 2500, since the 1.8L VVT-i in the Corolla does 2300-2400 RPM.

koyoteee

Does anyone know how the Echo's are selling? Are they doing better or worse than expected? I think I read that there were 48,000 sold in North America in 2000. How does this compare with the competition? Thank you.

mdrew

From what I read on here earlier, Toyota only produced around 50,000 Echos for the North American market in its first year (2000), so they seem to have sold about that many--unlike say the Focus which was sold in the hundreds of thousands. Toyota didn't seem to be going all out with the Echo, i.e. "competing," either in production or advertising. Why, I'm not sure (or what the deal is for 2001, now that the car seems to be a hit with most owners and is getting favorable reviews from Consumer Reports, etc.)

kaz6

Hey! another green 5-speed...is yours a 4-door? I love mine and have yet to meet someone that has regretted buying one!
Enjoy!

koyoteee

Yes, it is a 4 door, with the coloured bumpers, a/c, power locks and cd player. I tried to get a basic car with just a/c, but there were none to be found. Just as well, because I find I do like the extras! Wish I was there in California with you, instead of cold Canada

kneisl1

Toyota is not promoting ECHO because its market research has not found that many people are interested in buying a car like ECHO. There IS a market, but it is very small compared to that for cars like Accord, Camry etc.

babyboomer

Seems that the Focus market is not that small.
Echo could steal the Focus market away from Ford.
Since thousands of Foci have been sold, Echo could
compete if Toyota used more aggressive advertising
and options. However, I don't mind being part of the
Echo cult. I enjoy the faces of drivers which seem to be
asking "What is that?"

Purchased by silver Echo on Dec 16th. Mileage has
finally hit just over 1000 miles. So my baby has been
weaned of the break-in period and I can treat it as an
adult now.

janbee

Well you are not too far away from me, Im in London, Ontario...My 2000 Echo is a black, 4 dr, auto, spoiler, A/C, body-side moulding, and C/D...had an after-market automatic starter and door locks installed a few weeks ago, love it!

kneisl1

Just because ECHO and Focus look kind of the same doesn't mean they are in competition with each other. Focus is a much larger car with a larger engine. It's targets a different crowd...a more materialisticly oriented crowd than ECHO which is mainly for beansprout eaters and people who just need a cheap car. Don't get me wrong, ECHO is a BETTER car all the way around! But Toyota and Ford don't count on selling a new car by advertising it. No! No! They do market research which predicts how many of a certain type of car they will be able to sell to the public...then they go ahead and plan production levels. Sort of like a politico using polls to determine how many votes they can expect. What they plan to build is what they are able to sell, period. If the market will actually permit more sales...they screwed up and its very difficult to make more cars to meet demand...at least in the short/medium term. Most consumers DO NOT WANT SMALL CARS in the US of A and I really think Toyota is going somewhat out on a limb to make and market ECHO. Toyota is not going to make a lot of money selling ECHO, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to sell ECHO discontinued in the US in a few years. Perhaps however people will read this forum and be pursuaded to buy an ECHO. The response has been like 98 percent favorable. But that would mean the majority of people would have to have BRAINS...no I don't think its likely.

koyoteee

Kneisl1, I think you are right, that in a few years, if not sooner, we may not see the Echo here anymore, which will be a shame. People are so 'Focused' on appearances, that they won't even give the little Echo a chance because they think it doesn't look macho enough, or cool enough, or whatever it is people seem to be needing in a car to boost what they lack in themselves. Now in my Echo I watch all those insecure people in big SUV's and trucks going by and laugh! I do applaud Toyota for building this sensible car, which I admit, I like partly because it is so different from the boring herd. Plus, I think it's kinda cute

dsgecho

Seeing how the energy crisis is hitting CA and may well spread beyond there, I think this is a sign of problems w/energy in general. Would not be surprised to see gas prices rise again and SOON. Nothing like a dose of reality to swing people to think economical cars again.
As to the ECHO/Prius debate- I have one of each and a few thoughts. Straight economy- ECHO wins as the price is much lower to offset mpg savings w/Prius obviously esp. @$10,000 fo my base car.
Prius is heavier, very smooth,DEAD QUIET,and may be better for certain driving situations. It is a different car than ECHO and can't really be compared. In colder weather, the Prius is not at its optimum efficiency and maybe the ECHO is better to drive for the best MPG. So I rotate the vehicles according to the situation. Really hard to pick which one to drive most days. Echo is certainly QUIET and has better acceleration than the Prius, IMO. Both great cars from Toyota and which is better for you depends on you and finances, etc.Either way I don't think you lose!
Don
P.S. I have heard peole say that the Yaris is much beter looking than the ECHO but I have a hard time telling why at least from the pictures, IMO. Hatchback is a very useful design but the huge trunk of the ECHO means I have not had to wish for a hatchback yet.

kaz6

The one thing I can say about Fords in general is the poor resale (owned two fords) due to heavy rental fleet sales! The Focus is very popular but there are a lot of rental units out there as well! Toyota needs to sell Echo's so they can sell Tundras, Sequoias, et al.
As far as the comparisons, it's an apples and oranges thing...I think that the Focus appeal is more visceral and the Echo's more intellectual IMO.
I too feel the Yaris looks better; saw them in Europe and loved the outre shape! I would've gotten a 3-door version in a heartbeat if it were sold here. The shape of the Echo does look more 'normal' as time goes on though...

babyboomer

I asked my wife why she likes to drive the Echo to the mall.
Her answer: "Have you seen the size of that trunk?"

rjgee

Kneisl: "Focus is a much larger car with a larger engine. It's targets a different crowd...a more materialisticly oriented crowd than ECHO".
(The following comments are not directed at you Kneisl, they just represent more of my ramblings...)

Yes, I'll be blunt, which I'm very good at doing

Yes, its a larger car, with a larger engine.

Compare, and now I'll be kind here:
(I choose the 'performance' Ford engine, 2dr, manual shift to give Ford the extra weight advantage.)

Focus zx3 5sp,2dr: 130hp, 2551lbs
Echo 4dr auto,4dr: 108hp, 2080lbs
Ford is 18% heavier, 16.9% more HP. Where's the advantage?

Bigger car? Yes, its bigger too!
Ford zx3, Length: 168.1 in. Width: 66.9 in.
Echo 4dr, Length: 163.2 in. Width: 65.4 in.
Ford wins, hands down in cu ft. storage space.
So, for a mere 5 inches, we lose *over* 5mpg?

Yeah, see you at the repair shop. Or rather, I won't, since I own a Toyota.

kneisl1

Yes I too would have preferred a hatchback, especially one with a diesel engine. (are you listening, Toyota?) When I was a car mechanic, we used to say FORD means Fix Or Repair Daily, OR Found On The Road Dead. Actually it is unfair to so label Fords and American cars in general as being unreliable. I think they lack attention to detail, but in general are Ok mechanically. My Dad's 1973 Chevy Bel Aire with 350 V8 got 19 mpg on the hiway and lasted eight years with 180,000 miles. I sold it (he gave it to me at one point) for $300, but saw it two years later in a mall parking lot. The one thing I do not like about American cars is they spend a fortune on STYLE and PLASTIC and ADVERTISING and try to make us HAVE TO HAVE a new one to keep up with the neighbors. I could care less what my car looks like or what my neighbors are doing.
RJGEE you have my permission to rant/flame at me all you want, that's your right I do not mind, although I could not tell if you were pro ECHO or pro Ford.
Changed my oil this weekend after 3 months and 2600 miles of ownership. Toyota dealer sold me oil filter 90915-yzza2, whereas the one I took off the car was 90915-10009. It looked like Yazzy would bolt up, but it did appear different. A call to Toyota said that yazzy is in fact the correct filter. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

vadp

"Yeah, see you at the repair shop. Or rather, I won't, since I own a Toyota. "

What makes you so sure?
Yes, the odds are in Toyota's favor. But still, there are no guarantees.

rjgee

Kneisl: No offense meant.
Your quote just gave me a perfect opportunity to rant...

Vadp: How true- you never do know. Look at the Tercel - almost guaranteed to need a valve job around 130k... Of course, you still won't see me at the repair shop, because I do all the work myself

Echo Owner; mp3 since day one: 27,000+
(I want the first mp3 player to reach 100k!)

Opinion(y) stuff follows:
* I live at home.
* I make a very good salary. (computer consultant)
* I could have bought any (almost) car out there; cash.
* I choose the Echo; coolest looking car I've seen in a *long* time. (VW Jetta came in a close 2nd.) It would be really nice (Hellooooo, Toyota) to see a feature rich, performance version of the Echo.

midnightcowboy

Did anyone order an Echo fully loaded? What price to you pay? Were you able to undercut MSRP?

Would like:

4-door Absolutely Red 5-speed
AK,GI,NJ,A,A,CR,BE,#NC,#YR

Thanks,
M3

vocus

On any Echo or any car for that matter, you should get as close to dealer invoice (WITHOUT factoring in any rebates) as you can. I think the "going" price for Echos is something like $100-200 over invoice. At least that's what they're going for here in Maryland at Carmax in Laurel.

kaz6

The 2001 Echo sans side airbags recv'd 3stars for front and 4stars for rear passenger in side impact tests. While it didn't score as well as the Honda Civic 2-door with side airbags it did rate the same as the larger/heavier Focus 4 door!

The frontal tests are due in March...

Speaking of the 4 door Focus, Car and Driver's own test data shows the Echo having a higher top speed and faster acceleration and better mpg. The only category it was beat by the Focus was in braking and that has to do with the dramatic difference in tire size!

Echoistas rejoice!

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/hot/rollover/2001Rollover.html

vadp

"Speaking of the 4 door Focus, Car and Driver's own test data shows the Echo
having a higher top speed and faster acceleration and better mpg."

Sorry, but the Echo's top speed is not higher.
The Focus speed governor is set at 106-108 mph.
Without that the Focus can accelerate up to 125 mph (the European model without the governor proves it).
The other two claims are correct.