Toyota Echo

goaptec

We will be replacing our commuter car with an Echo. Am trying to do my homework and have checked the lit for options. While color is Not a priority--prefer any light color. We do want all the following options:auto trans, air con, side air bags and folding rear seat.

Has anyone been able to tap into the Toyota database to find out how many of these are presently available?

Also has anyone ordered a Echo with similar options from the factory? If so what was the ordering price vs dealer lot price?

Thanks!

PS am trying to find all the Toyota dealers for the New England Region of US. Tried using Toyotas dealer locator but very slow and clunky
so would appreciate any suggestions!

rajmoran

When comparing things like acceleration and top speed it's important to be fair. Both the ECHO and the Focus are equipped with electronically "hobbled" motors which limit top speed, and should both, therefore, be evaluated according to their respective "as-shipped" limitations.

Now, according to Car and Driver:

The ECHO does 0-60 in 8.5 seconds with a governed top speed of 112 mph, and a quarter mile time of 16.7 seconds.

The Focus Zetec does 0-60 in 9.6 with a governed top speed of 106 mph, and a quarter mile time of 17.2.

Now, as Kaz6 so correctly pointed out, the ECHO is faster and quicker than Focus. To say that the Focus would be faster without its governor is like saying if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt a'hoppin'.

Having said that, it's fairly well accepted that the Focus has a better suspension, which every serious driver knows is what makes the difference when the performance numbers are close (and even sometimes when they are not).

dsgecho

After shopping around, consider www.carmax.com and the new echos @Laurel, MD toyota which there is a wide selection and good prices. Probably not that expensive to have the car shipped to you from there.You probably will NOT find one easily that has side air.

lynnann1

I had mentioned a few days ago that Consumer Reports Used Car buying guide had found the ECHO's reliability to be "Very good in its first year."

Since someone else has brought up the Focus... They have for reliability for the Focus to be "Below par in its first year." While they don't have anything really bad about it. They do question (half red circle 2.0-5.0 problem rate) - Fuel economy, electrical, brakes, and integrity (weather stripping, wind noise, etc.) and an a higher problem rate(5.0% - 9.3%) I/ body hardware (window, door, seat mechanism; locks etc.)

While I know this is only among people who probably responded to a CR questionnaire, it appears that there were more dissatisfied Focus customers.

goaptec

dsgecho thanks for the tip will check.

Does anyone have an Echo with side air bags? Was told there is No such thing in US--even though Toyota offers it as an option!

deadbeatle

According to the NHSTA database, there have been 397 consumer complaints logged against the 2000 Ford Focus,
and only 12 logged against the 2000 Toyota Echo.
Ford sold approximately 288,000 Foci in 2000 against approximately 48,000 Echo's sold. So it is logical to assume that because Ford has sold 6 times more Foci as compared to the Echo, The Focus should have about 6 times as many complaints as compaired to the Echo, which would add to to be about 72 total complaints. Nope! The 2000 Ford Focus has logged 33 times the amount of complaints as compaired the the Echo! I guess we now know,if we did not already, who makes the higher quality car!....Now if I could only get my 96 Corolla to wear out so I could have an excuse to buy one!

vadp

Does anybody argue?
All those industry surveys, JDPower ratings, CR statistics were always showing that the overall Toyota quality numbers were always much better than those of Ford.
Lately I was doing some research regarding the lemon law statistics and it doesn't look good for Ford at all.
Still Ford makes enough of money off its truck sales to accumulate $26 BILLION in cash reserves.
Do you wonder why a lot of people, like me for example are still buying Fords?
In my case I simply couldn't resist the functionality of the design and ride quality.
This car was made for me.
Why Toyota and Honda are unable to produce anything close to Focus in its appeal and functionality?

vadp

The cars I would consider buying:
The Echo hatch
The Civic hatch
The Japanese version of the Corolla
The Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix
Some European market hatches.

All those cars are not available for sale in the US or just getting ready to be produced in the future.
Yet the GM product managers waisted millions to push the money-loosing Aztek to the market. The Civic and Echo hatches are available everywhere in the world but the US.
I believe that a lot of people in this country share my preferences.

kaz6

In Los Angeles, the only diversion one can find in stop-and-go traffic is the stoplight grand prix. Can't tell you how many people underestimate the speed of the Echo!!! Oh well...
One other thing...I can drive very aggressively and STILL get 29mpg in the city!!! My old ZX2 had similar acceleration but got 20mpg driven the same way!!!
Also, as a reviewer had mentioned, this car can corner pretty fast too! You just have to get used to the body angle.
I can hardly wait to get better/wider tires on this car! Zoom!

cmeijning

The Yaris performed quite well in the Euro NCAP crashtest. You can find the result at http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm

Look at the supermini category.

koyoteee

I read on MSN Carpoint this morning that they are bringing out a Focus Hatchback this fall. Perhaps the Echo will follow. It also said that the Focus was the best selling car in the world, which I find hard to believe.

janbee

Doesnt the 2 door focus have a hatchback?? I thought there was already a 2 door on the market...Isnt the ZX3 a hatchback?? If its not looks are decieving.

lynnann1

Yeah, I thought the ZX3 was a hatchback, certainly looks like one to me!

rajmoran

vadp asks, "Why [are] Toyota and Honda unable to produce anything close to Focus in its appeal and functionality?"

Puh-leeze. What exactly is it that the Focus does that ECHO can't do as well or better?

And as far as "appeal" goes, Michael Jackson is one of the best selling recording artists of all time which just goes to show you that there's no accounting for taste, and that "sales" does not necessarily equate to "goodness." It just means there are millions and millions of people around the world who need to wise up.

Anyway, my ECHO is averaging 32 mpg in lead footed stop and go commuting; almost 10 MPG better than I could probably expect from the Focus (according to Car and Driver) in similar conditions. How's that for functionality?

vadp

Regarding the Focus hatch.
Right now Ford produces the Focus ZX3 - a 2-door hatch.
The news are that this fall the 4-door version will come to the market, probably as the ZX5.

I call the car functional when it has:
1. Ride quality similar to the cars costing thousands more - Focus
2. Almost perfect ergonomics - tie.
3. Possibility to transport stove-size objects (ZX3 and the comming ZX5) - Focus
4. Huge amounts of interior space available for the driver and the passengers - tie.
5. Hadling qualities as you'd never believe without taking an actual test drive. - Focus
6. Good fuel economy - Echo
7. Brisk acceleration - Echo

The Focus looses in 2 out of those 7 and simply because of its outdated engine, that I hear will be replaced for the 2003 MY.

vadp

And I have to admit that the Echo, judging by the posts on this board, wins hands down in the reliability contest.

kaz6

Who cares which is better...I buy what I like as does the rest of the world. This forum is about Echo and Echo ownership. So PLEASE save the armchair analysis for pointless bar conversations!
And stop comparing the ZX-3 with Echo...apples and oranges. If you insist on flogging the Focus/Echo comparo then stick with the Focus sedan which I believe STILL cannot haul a "stove-like object" in its trunk. As far as I know, the two have comparable trunk capacities.

vadp

What's that? Jealousy?
Don't take on my beloved Echo?
I just was responding to the previous posts, sir.
I don't bring the Focus topic to this forum on my own.
Scroll back and check.
BTW I have every right to post on this forum as any other.
If you got a problem, try to deal with that.

biotrox

Hi guys, I am glad I found this forum. I have had a 2 dr loaded echo for a couple months now and have enjoyed it. I use it as a commuter vehicle to save on gas mileage. I also own a Isuzu Rodeo and became tired of paying $40 a week for the commute to work and back. I wanted to purchase a second vehicle and my decision was going to be based on 2 things: Cost and Fuel Efficiency. I narrowed it down to the Ford Focus and Toyota Echo. I read all the good things about the Focus and was very close to buying.I liked the appearance and standard options of the Focus a lot better but after researching I was a little concerned about the recall reports I have read about. They also seem to have been getting a lot of consumer complaints the past year. It all came down to trusting that which I was familar with and Toyota has served me well in the past .My first car was a Tercell. It ran until it rusted out and I could see the pavement from the holes in the floor. If it was still around I am sure the engine would still be running. All things considered my final decision between the 2 was based on my experience and the reliability factor. The only odd thing I have found so far with the Echo is some issues while driving on the highway. It can be a little challenging to drive in high winds and in the snow. We had a big blast of snow here last week and I had my first experience in the snow with the Echo. I am used to the 4w drive of the Isuzu so my opinion is biased but the driving was very tricky. You MUST go slow in the snow. I am talking VERY slow. It drives like a bull on ice. Dont push it. You will skid all over whether you have ABS or not. The problem isnt the braking or having ABS or not its simply the small vehicle weight of the car and the thin 14 inch tires. ABS wont help if there is hardly any tire to grip with. Its going to slip regardless. ABS isnt even worth it on this vehicle due to its small size. It really wont have that much of an effect and is a waste of cash. Go out and get 15 inch snow tires if you are going to be driving in snow. I just purchased a set last week and the control is much much better.

As far as some of the criticism being lodged against the Echo I find it a little curious and amusing(even by some of the pro reviewers in the auto magazines). The most common complaints are the shape and style, the lack of power windows etc as a standard feature and the 'cheap plastic feal of the interior'. Come on guys. Reality check time. The ECHO is a sub compact ECONOMY car. The average base price for an auto in the USA is $23,000. The average base price for an Echo is $10,050. What did you expect - standard plush leather seating, 4 wheel drive, and a satelite GPS auto navigation sytsem mounted in the dash? I just find it amusing when people complaing about the lack of top line features or seat upholstery in a $12,000 sub compact economy vehicle.

All I know is this is going to be a great second vehicle for me and is going to save me a ton of cash at the pump. You can think about that and laugh while the guy who spent $35,00 on an 18 mpg luxury SUV is paying $40 to fill up his tank for the week. I love my Isuzu Rodeo and its great for trips and camping etc but am very pleased with my new Echo.

biotrox

I noticed on this board a lot of folks have asked about the availability of different Echo configurations in the US. I had the same trouble when purchasing. I wanted a 4 door gold model fully loaded. They had none in stock and said it would be a 6-8 month wait for an order from Japan since it wasnt on inventory anywhere. The cars are not asembled here in the US. The problem is Toyota only has 50,000 units allocated for the US the past year and there have been 48,00 sales. Its hard to find exactly what you want. The dealer told me there isnt a bare bones base model left in the entire US inventory. Due to the low demand I wouldnt expect this to change. Most of their stock has already been sold. 2001 models are simpy a rollover from 2000. In Europe and Japan where the Echo is supposedly exceedingly popular you can get probably just walk in and pick any option you want but here in the US you wont find a lot of on hand stock to choose from.

kaz6

Congratulations on your new Echo! I have a 4dr w/5-spd.; fairly well equiped in electric green. Yes, it is hard to find one to your liking. I had shopped three dealers for a 5-spd. I didn't get the greatest deal on mine but I love it so I guess that's all that matters.
Did you say you upgraded your tires/wheels to 15"?As soon as the OEM's need replacing I'm looking to upgrade to 15"'s as well. I would have thought that thin tires would help you plow through snow/slush?
Don't underestimate your Echo for long trips...I regularly take mine to Vegas from LA and it is comfy and speedy.

biotrox

Yes, I upgraded to 15 inch double wide grooved snow tires. They really made a very significant difference. It doesnt sound like you will be getting any snow in Vegas but to those that live up north they will need to get them. Trust me on that one. It is a little disconcerting and akward when the car spins and jukes at every tiny application of the accelerator or breaks. Even with the tires though this is not the kind of car you want to be in during a blizzard when the visibility is near zero, there are crosswind gusts of 50 mph and there is 10 feet of snow on the ground. I have a feeling you would literally be blown sideways off the road. Get a ride to work that day or take the bus. I have not driven in these conditions yet but we get a lot of storms like that up here and I wouldnt even attempt it. The worse I have tried is a few feet of snow in calm conditions. Other than that a great little car.

majorthomecho

I would like to welcome Biotrox to the board, but I have to take exception to some things he or she says.

We had a pretty bad ice storm about a week ago. I was a little worried about taking the Echo out in it and was going to take the Escort out instead. Do you know why I was worried? I was worried about the other drivers and not how the Echo would handle. I ended up taking the Echo and it did beautifully. Yes, I did go slower than I do in perfect conditions, but I did not slow "way down" as Bio suggests. To get home, I have to drive over a very long connecting bridge. The day of the ice storm, it was one long sheet of ice from beginning to end. Still had no trouble in the Echo.

Now what about snow? The city streets in Kansas City are usually pretty clear, but I have driven on country roads that had half a foot of snow on them. Again, I slowed down from normal speed, but I did not have any problems getting through the snow. Going to a bigger tire in the winter is actually a mistake according to TireRack.com. They suggest going a size down, actually, when ordering snow tires. I am saving up the money to get snow tires for next winter.

I have not experienced a blustery day in spring, but I have driven my Echo during some pretty windy days in the two months I have owned the Major. He has done beautifully and I did not feel that I was going to end up in someone else's lane.

I would like to end this post by asking someone to post the top speeds (governed) for the Echo, the Focus with the base engine and the Focus with the more horsepower engine. Thanks.

Off to work. Oh, one more thing. We have secret pals at work and my secret pal gave me a CD he or she recorded with songs off the net. I can tell you that the CD player in the Echo will play these types of CDs.

dsgecho

So we have to drive the echo slower in snow/ice. Either another defect in this car or, perhaps, the recc. way to drive ANY car in those conditions! The echo did fine here in the snow and ice in Nashville back in Dec./Jan. If it drives good for you in KC then that is very good as they can get some pretty bad conditions there from time to time- esp. the winds. Hcaing lived there, in a bad wind any vehicle can have problems not just the echo.

janbee

I live in Canada so I do know snow and I dont find any difference in driving the Echo than in the Civic I used to drive (and the civic had ABS). Not once have I felt the Echo slide or become out of my control while driving in the snowy and icy conditions...Of course I drive considerably slower in the winter months because of the poor road conditions but shouldnt everyone???

jacktec3

I need professional advice! I currently own
a 1999 Corolla LE; and thus, I am bored to death! I have developed a new romance with the
Echo. Simply love the car. How can I go about
a trade in? What should I expect?

thoover

I bought my Corolla new in '88 and it is still going strong, except the body is rusting (they use salt on the roads a lot around here).

We also have an Echo with just under 10000 on it, and it runs great with 0 problems (I love the style inside and out, and it fits me being a tall car as I have 36" inseam). I love the thing (but my better half has it most of the time).

My advice would be to run your Corolla for a while, they last a long time. I think I am going to try to keep mine till the Matrix comes out next January - If I don't, we will be a two Echo family...

Good luck with your decision.

biotrox

I am not talking about some ice on the road or a coating of snow. I am talking 10 inches..blizzard conditions that you frequently get up north. From my limited experience driving the Echo this car becomes almost undriveable in these conditions. It just does not perform well. I am not cutting(I own one and it is fun to drive). I am simply stating my observation. It does not perform well at all for this type of driving. It was not meant to and it is not equipped to. Most cars will slip and slide here and there in these conditions but the Echo is totally out of control at the slightest tap of the gas or brakes.

kaz6

I was actually meaning regular tires and alloys...would like more grip in acceleration/braking as well as sharper cornering. I am concerned about risk of hydroplaning and lower mpg because of more drag though...
I have found that with my tires set at 32psi it still treads very lightly because of the low weight of the car.

rvdmerwe

Hi,

I bought my new 2dr 5spd manual 2001 Echo 6 days ago and just love this car!
I have a question though: I have been driving manual/stick-shift cars
my whole life and was querious about the following:

I notice that when I up-shift gears while accelerating, it seems that
the engine 'speeds up' a little bit (or at least sound like it) everytime I depress
the clutch and shift up (I do not step on the accelerator while
shifting.. of course.). The sound is almost akin to the sound you hear when you
'rev' the car in neutral. The sound (rising in pitch) always accompanies up-shifts. Since this car is brand new (100miles) I was wondering if this in normal for the Echo, or should I have it looked
at? This can of course also just be my clutch/accelerator shifting style that needs to be 'adjusted' to my new car.

R.

sonndra

I decided what options I wanted by looking through the Internet and when I went to two dealers, I found it's not that easy--a finding I'm seeing "echoed" on this board.

I wanted ABS for safety--even though you have to buy a lot of stuff I never would have bought otherwise. One dealer said ABS is only sold in places with snow and isn't useful in dry areas, anyway. We do have the occasional rain, sometimes more than occasional. Is it true ABS is less useful when it's dry? Is it true, as one poster here said, it doesn't benefit small cars?

Also for safety, I looked for side air bags and didn't find them. One dealer said he can install them. Would this be as good as factory installed? (He also said he'd install air conditioning. That doesn't sound like a good idea.)

If you don't pay extra for a rear window defroster, is there really none at all? I'd hate to be without one.

It also appeared that the car won't make a sound to warn you you've left your lights on, etc., unless you pay more. Is that so?

My aging Nissan doesn't have power steering and for the most part I like it. I'd want to try out the Echo's non-power steering before I bought it, if I could find it. One dealer told me what they're selling isn't really power steering, it's power-assisted steering, so it's really what I want. Well...does the car ever come without power steering?

It also looks pretty hard to find 2 doors and stick shift.

I got my car fixed instead of buying what's available. From what I see on this board, I may have to accept features I don't want if I buy the next time my car needs repair.

kaz6

The only unusual sound my Echo makes while shifting at lower gears is a unique whine/whistle noise. It's the same kind of noise I hear from the new CNG buses...but I don't experience any revs while the clutch is depressed.
A reluctance to go into 1st while in motion (near stopped)is the only difficulty I have.
The notchy feel has gone away now that I have nearly 4000mi on mine.

dsgecho

My base model has no PS but does not seem to be a problem due to its light weight.It does have a defroster which I think you need everywhere in the U.S. at some point. AC to be installed is $1350- OUCH.Shifter feels better after 1100 mi. but I still get revs sometimes between downshifts especially.Foot definitely off the accelerator. Of course, I am still not the best shifter in the world.

janbee

We get way more snow than that around here and Ive never felt any slipping in the Echo...But Ive only driven small cars and prob just used to the way they handle.

janbee

Some guy is putting down the echo for being a small car...saying if we crashed with an SUV we would be dead because thats just the law of physics...can anyone prove him wrong?? Would hate to think ppl are buying big cars just to be safe.

biotrox

Most cars that get rammed by an SUV are going to be in troube-not just small ones. Small cars are about a ton or so. Large cars a couple tons and SUVs can go up to 5 or 6. I would say if someone is overly worried about it then dont drive at all and just stay at home and lock yourself up in the closet to avoid any cosmic rays that might be coming through your windows.

biotrox

it sounds like you may be relaesing the clutch too fast or have the engine at high RPM when you shift.

sonatafan

My 2 door, 5 speed Echo makes no sense compared to the "packages" Toyota lists you have to purchase. When I bought mine last June, it was the ONLY one on two dealer lots that didn't have sport body cladding and the rest of the accessories. Here's what it has (per window sticker):

FE 50 State Emissions (duh)
CK All Weather Gaurd Pckg Incl:
Heavy Duty Battery, Rear
Heater (just vents under
front seats), and Rear Defogger
PS Power Steering
AC Air Conditioner
CF Carpet Floor Mats
GF Full Tank of Fuel (yes!)

None of these items were dealer installed and no other optional equipment is listed. After I bought mine, I still have never seen another one around central Ohio like it, they all have the body moulding. Not that one doesn't exist.

MSRP was $11,985 and I offered and paid $10,995 for it.

majorthomecho

I do not know too many small vehicles without 4WD or AWD that will get around easily in 10 inches of snow. Actually, I don't think I have ever driven in that much snow. If that much snow falls, I am smart enough to stay home. LOL.

janbee

Ive never seen a city without plowed streets.. but the neighbourhoods are always left till the end, if you can make it out of your street you are ok! Thankfully I am very close to the main roads!

kneisl1

I too have noticed the rpms singing a little between gears when shifting. Older cars had throttle positioners which held the throttle open upon lifting your foot. This prevented emmissions from getting out of hand as far as I know, but I have no explaination why ECHO does this. I suspect it has something to do with the way the engine is seeing the pressing down of the accelerator pedal, but I'm not sure. As far as I can see there is no way to adjust the idle, its all done by the fuel injection.I lift my foot of the acceleraor before shifting and all is well. If anyone has an explanation from a dealer about this, or if the dealer actually can adjust this problem, I'd love to hear about it.

rvdmerwe

kneisl1: Good to hear someone else has the same experience. I also found that by completely lifting my foot from the accelerator during shifting, the 'rpm singing' goes away. Do you follow Toyota's suggested shifting speeds in the owners manual ?

vadp

The Echo and other modern cars do that thing for the reason you just mentioned - emissions.
You can't fix the "throttle hang feature". This is how it comes from the factory and there is no way you can get rid of it without replacing the stock PCM module.

tazereli

have you really done your math? I dont think that there are any suv's that approach 10-12,000lbs(5-6 tons) most range from 1.5 (3000lbs) tons to about 3.5 tons (7000lbs)

tracey8

Has anyone tried GT88 scratch remover? I have a light scratch on my month old Echo I'd like to get out.

slowgoings

In the beginning stages of researching cars that I am interested in purchasing. Test drove the Echo today and wanted to find out if there is any information on crash test/safety issues. I read the Edmunds blip which does not go into much and do not know where else to go.
Does anyone have information they can offer?

redechopod

but I have seen one test where they tested front drivers and passenger impact and it did quite well. I believe the link for that test is on this board if you scroll up about 40 messages or so. Toyota says that it reacts similarly to the camry in crash performance which is great if that is true. I am happy with the overall performance of my echo and so far have no problem reccommending it to anyone. I love it!! MPG is in high 30's low 40's depending city/highway. Good luck in your research. Oh yeah and i acually waved to another Echo driver while stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. My boyfriend thinks i am a total nerd but i thought it was funny. The other echohead laughed and waved.

kneisl1

No when I shift I pretty much judge for myself at what point to shift. EChO seems to have lots of torque: I ofter drive to work at 40 in fifth and 35 in fourth.
Yes if you can stand it in in my opinion don't get ABS, unless a teenager is driving the car. ABS just hasn't made that big a dent in accidents to justify itself. Insurance companies don't give much (if any) discount for it. I asked my motorcycle list the impressions of those members who have ABS. The thing with a motorcycle is: in a panic situation if you apply the brakes AND swerve at the same time, you go down. You can swerve with no brakes and try to miss the problem, or you can, while remaining upright in a straight line, use the brake to decelerate as rapidly as possible hoping to stop befoire the obstruction or accepting that you are going to hit it, but hopefully at a reduced speed as possible. ABS would seems to be a godsend for motorcycles: swerve AND brake at the same time without loss of control. But according to those listers who have it, ABS at least at this time will NOT allow you to do that on a moorcycle. A car is different of course, but you can achieve the same thing by driving carefully, pumping the brakes, using the handbrake for icy conditions, and going at a speed appropriate for the conditions.

elomin

Just wondering where you live, the other day someone in an Echo waved at me and I laughed and waved back. But they were in a green Echo and from your name I'm guessing yours is red.

cmeijning

The Yaris performed quite well at the european ncap testcrash. Look at http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm The yaris is in the supermini category. It got a 4 star rating (out of 5) for frontal and side impact. The Yaris is a hatchback version of the Echo, so the front-end of the car is the same as the Echo.

The frontal crash is a 64 kph (40mph) offset crash into a deformable barrier (40% overlap).

It got a 2 (out of 4) star rating for the pedestrian impact. Only one supermini got a 3 star rating (Daihatsu Sirion)

I own a Yaris Verso. It's an mpv version of the Yaris. I just love the car. The engine is quiet. The suspension is a bit firm but not harsh. Overall it's very comfortable.

I've got the 1.3 liter engine (manuel transmission). Average fuel consumption is 6.3 liter/100km (37.5 mile/gallon). The best mileage so far is 5.06 liter/100km (46.7 mile/gallon)(going from Amsterdam to the south of France using the highway and the route nationale). Worst mileage: 13.3 liter/100 km (17.74 mile/gallon)(highway-driving going from Munich to Amsterdam).