When considering leasing ANY vehicle, do not talk lease first and do not go by the lease payments in the paper. Lease payments in the paper are based on the full MSRP of the vehicle and generally do not include taxes and other add ons.
You should negotiate the price of the vehicle first and then hit them with the fact that you want to lease after that.
In a lease, car dealers want you to focus (no pun intended) on the low lease payment. Lease payments will always be lower than the payment to buy the vehicle when comparing loans and leases of the same length. That does not mean you got a good deal when you lease. If a dealer knows beforehand that you are going to lease, he can play with the numbers and make it appear he is giving you a great lease payment when in fact he is giving himself some great profit.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against a dealer making a profit. I am against dealers making unreasonable profits.
Before you lease, you need to determine if leasing is for you. Leases are for people who are only going to keep a car for two or three years, only drive about 12,000 miles a year, and take great care of the car. If you do not do ALL of these, then leasing is not for you.
I am not sure if Canada has a Barnes and Noble or a Borders, but I believe you have a book store chain called Chapters. Whatever it is called, I would go there. If you can skim through a book called the Unofficial Guide to Buying or Leasing a Car, I would suggest you do so.
I cannot really tell you if $199 is a good deal without knowing the length of the lease, the price of the Echo, and the money factor. Also, would need to know what taxes and fees are included (if any) in that payment. To find out, I would suggest calling the dealership from a phone that is not in your house and I would use a false name. No sense in giving them advance warning that you are interested in a lease.
Sorry for the rambling thoughts. If I can be of any further assistance, I will give it.
To the college student interested in the Echo, I want to say that you have nice taste in cars. I do think you need to take some more steps before you set foot in a show room.
Given you mention the 2000 model, I have to believe that you are interested in a used Echo. Anyway, since we will soon be seeing 2002 models, I consider a 2000 model to be a used vehicle. If you are looking at a used 2000, I would start looking through your local paper (or the paper of the nearest big city if it is about 100 miles away or less) for prices of used Echos. I would also go on the 'net and look for Echos equipped like you want. Get an idea of what a used Echo is selling for in the real world as well as the value the web sites give.
On a used car, I am not sure that invoice (for when the car was new) is the principal guiding factor any more. If you are interested in a used Echo, I would check out Edmunds' used car section and don't get the pricing through the new car section. I would also check out the used car prices on Kelly's Blue Book (KBB.com) as well as any other sites you know about.
If your use of 2000 was a typo and you mean 2001 or it is a "new" 2000, I think a good rule of thumb is three to five percent over invoice. This allows the salesman to make some money. Do not give them the maximum amount you are willing to pay for the vehicle, though. Make them work up to your number rather than you making a line in the sand and trying to stand firm.
Also, check out the article Confessions of a Car Salesman here on Edmunds. Find books at your library about buying a car and read.
Finally, I would try to get financing from some place other than the car dealership. Financing is another possible profit center for a dealership. Get this financing in place before you set foot in the show room.
Good advice It's easier at some dealers than others. I think that the biggest challenge in getting an Echo these days are the dealers only wanting to sell SUV's and pickup trucks!!! I have never been by a dealer in the LA area that has more than 3 or 4 Echo's on the lot. The dealer tried to get me into a lease when I was negotiating for my Echo. They want to hook you with a low lease payment but looks can be deceiving as you said. A lease would make more sense on a car that has large depreciation but Toyota's in general have great resale value. Anyone out there with 2-door model? Just wonder what the difference in resale is between 4 and 2 door. Also, anyone have any luck installing driving/fog lamps on their echo?
Hi Fellow Echoians. I havent read the posts in a while, just seeing what other echo owners are up to. Echos are pretty scarce here in chicago, everybody seems to be buying the focus. Just a note. Still loving my car, a little distraught about the dent in the front that I got in the parking lot . But Oh well. Have a great day all!!
In case you have not noticed, you can post a review of the Echo and I really wish someone would.
I wrote the first review and I must admit it is not very well written. I had written a very nice rebuttal to Edmunds' review and I submitted it, but was then informed that reviews had to be 2500 words or less. Flustered and sure someone else was writing a review (and would thus be first), I quickly threw a review together.
I finally got around to wrapping the a/c line in the engine compartment. The whole thing didn't take very long and I used radiator hose tape to wrap the insulation. While it hasn't been very hot here, I do notice a difference in the degree of cold air coming through the system now. I'll really know how it works when it gets hot again.
I remember a posting from months ago (which I can't find now) about wrapping the a/c line to improve performance. Is there any trick to doing it, kaz6? I'm scheduled to bring my Echo in for it's next oil change right about the time of its first birthday and I'd like to see if I can get the dealer to do it for me. It gets pretty hot here by mid-summer and the a/c last year was a tad wimpy. BTW: I've had the car just about exactly a year, have 14,500+ miles. I did a big road trip last summer and got a rock chip that turned into a big crack so I had to replace the windshield. But no mechanical problems of any kind whatsoever. I DO have to slow down to 60mph in winds over 25mph to avoid getting shoved around though. But it's a comfy and peppy little car and I'm a happy camper.
there's really no trick to it. I bought the insulation at Home Depot-it's high-density with a self-sealing seam. I just cut it to the length of the pipe I wanted to cover and slipped it on. After sealing the edge of the insulation I wrapped it up with radiator repair tape. I tried to get asphalt tape here in LA but couldn'tfind any. The original post mentioned using it because it has a high flame point but the radiator tape should be fine. The whole thing took 10 minutes. My a/c never pumped 'ice-cold' air until doing this. The true test will be in the summer but any help for the small unit should make a difference. The pipe you want to insulate is the fatter of the two and it is "S" shaped. If you are unsure, just run the a/c and feel for the cold one. I don't know if the dealer would do it and what they would charge. It's very simple to do yourself. I also replaced the oem horn with a large FIAM blower type horn. Now my Echo sounds like a Buick! LOL
Saw the first ECHO commercial in a long, long time on TV last night. Shows a guy pulling up across the street from a gas station where gas guzzlers are filling up. Gets out does a dance mocking them and then drives away. Ending with a voice over talking about the car getting 41 mpg. Pretty funny.
I've been reading this forum for a while and it's great. I have a 2001 Echo coupe. The lighting for the "idiot" gauge cluster on the left side of the instrumentation is bright on the bottom and gets progressively dark toward the top. I suspect this is how it's designed but just want to confirm it.
Some comments on my echo:
Pluses: Great mileage (42 in mixed driving), spacious interior, great ride, view of the road, very good acceleration, good build quality, some nice features such as rear head rests, tilt wheel, my car came stock with Michelins (Wow!)
Misses: Rear window defroster not standard (silly, I would have happily paid an extra $100 or so for this), have to open windows to adjust outside mirrors (not even a little "stick" control to adjust from inside), shifter is too notchy though the clutch is great and the car is an easy car to drive, much to suseptable to being blown around in the wind, accessories are limited and expensive (no mud guards, upgrading from AM-FM radio to 3 in 1 costs $1400!)
Overall I really like the echo. I got it as an advertised "loss leader". I paid $9995 plus tax and license. The car is a coupe, 5spd, a/c, AM-FM, PS. Great Value!
It will be interesting to see what happens this summer with gas prices. Here in San Diego we are paying $1.80 for standard unleaded. The prediction is for well over $2 per gallon this summer. If this happens we may have made an even better purchase then we originally thought. Don't you wonder if dealers will start charging a premium for fuel efficient cars like they did in the 70's?
Glad you like your Echo for the most part. If you bought the loss leader, mine is the profit leader. LOL Well, it took 2hrs of bs negotiating to get the cost down-sticker was 14500. I must say though, that a lot of the things you are missing are on mine. While there are no mud-guards availabe, the bodyside cladding does a great job of keeping the sides clean. The funny thing about the 'remote'mirrors is that you have to reach over to the passenger side almost as much as if you were to reach outside to move em. Mine came with a couple of things that were totally frivolous and had the cost deducted; rear spoiler and pin striping. The funny thing is that the two things combined actually give the car a different profile-longer. A friend of mine that refuses to like the car even said that mine didn't look as short as others he had seen. You might want to have the dealer look at the instrument cluster light as mine is fairly evenly lit. Maybe the bulb is out of position? Mine is actually brightest to the right of the display and fades out to the left. Your shifter should loosen up eventually. Mine was very sticky/notchy at first but after a few thousand miles, it is much easier to work. Have fun passing all those gas stations!!
Thanks for the good wishes after my rollover accident (which I posted aboutlast month). I just thought I'd give you guys the follow-up on actual cash value when the insurance was being sorted out.
The sticker price on my car was $12,400. At first, the insurance adjuster mistakenly thought the car was a 2000 and prepared an appraisal based on comparable cars (which made sense to me,since I used to be in the mortgage business and was used to dealing with real estate appraisals). Of course, he neglected to include half the options the car was equipped with, charged me too much depreciation for mileage, and called it a 2000. Nevertheless, at that rate he arrived at a value of 12,800.
That was a few hundred bucks short of my payoff figure, so I called the mistakes to his attentin. Big mistake! Although I got conflicting information from two different adjusters, he was the one handling my case, so to determine value he simply took the sticker price and subtracted 21 cents for each mile I'd driven. The math wasn't pretty; he arrived at a cash value (for a 5-month-old car that had been in perfect condition prior to the wreck) of $10,400!
So, I AM back on the road in another Echo (Electric Green, they call it, I think). I have to say, the ones on the lot weren't half as good looking as my first one--they've all got the body cladding and contrasting protective strips on the doors, which I think look horrible on the lighter colored cars. I'm also not thrilled with the weird matte black strips pasted on the posts between the windows. My first Echo was just solid black paint all over, and to me at least, it looked a heck of a lot classier than the ones with all the extraneous bits of plastic stuck on them.
The folks at my dealership, by the way, were amazed at the photographs of the post-wreck car; they wanted me to send copies to show potential customers how well the car held up...
It cost me, though--I wound up having to finance the gap between the insurance payout and my actual payoff figure, which really hurt since I've still been making my payments for the six weeks this has been going on. I'm now fairly confident that I own the most expensive Echo in the continental United States...
Oh, I also got an automatic this time instead of a stick. It was against my better judgment and I'll never really be thrilled with an automatic, but my family insisted it made no sense to have a car that no one else could drive in an emergency. Oh well...
Next time, I'll hit whatever runs in front of me...
You can get mudguards, breckco, here is a link that says they have them on sale. I have them on my ECHO, they are genuine Toyota, they go on real easy and fit perfect. I have the body cladding, but I think they sell them to fit both ways.
It is my guess that this place gets them from Toyota Canada...
Well, I think you'll like the automatic if you ever drive in heavy traffic, that and you'll never need a new clutch. My son is about to Learn To Drive and we have no automatic in the house... I got the silver color because that was what was on the lot and wish I didn't. I think green or black would be a lot sportier. But no other geegaws! I agree, next time make darn sure before swerving to avoid anything other than a cow, moose, or human. Bad enough to total out a car (could have been worse...they might have made you fix it!) but it would have been much worse to kill/injure yourself or another person. Good luck with the new ECHO! I think it says a lot for the ECHO (and you) that you went through this experience and still opted for an ECHO replacement!
Happy Easter, Just got home from a week long road trip. Now have 35,500 miles on my Y2K ECHO. No problems. Even got 44 mpg on one tank of gas traveling at 60 mph on back roads.
I think you will get a better deal on the mudguards at www.toyotaguys.com great company to do business with i but a hood deflector and cargo net for my echo there ???? Did you have to drill holes to install the mud guards my two door coupe has the body cladding
Anyone out there ever see an Echo with ABS and side air bags? Know where to find one? If so, appreciate knowing where. Also, any aftermarket center arm rest/console applications that are decent? How much and who has them? Thanks.
How can you not figure out why people would choose this car, AJB? I don't even have one, and I know they are low priced, high economy cars with durability and reliability on their side. Also, it's easy to get a good deal on them too. And, for their exterior size, they are very safe from what I have read (about real-world experiences). So what's your problem dude?
Why would someone choose the Echo? It is the least expensive non-Korean car on the market - from Toyota no less, so reliability is not even an issue - and equipped smartly can be had for less than a Honda Civic, far less than the Ford Focus, and far far less than any other import currently for sale. It is zippy, fun to drive, has a large interior, lots of space, suprisingly roomy back seats, superb crash test ratings, and a Really Good(tm) stereo.
All of this only at the expense of the dorky-looking rear wheels
Hello Echoistas! Just got back from the desert; avg. mpg 38/mixed driving in town and 85-90mph highway!!! I love it!!! The a/c line insulation proved itself during a couple of days of desert sunshine and temps near 90!! If anybody lives in a warm climate it's worth the effort!!
I finally got my new silver 4-dr. 5-speed Echo yesterday!!! It took a month, but I'm so pleased to have it now. It had 1 mile on it when I picked it up last night -- straight off the truck. It drives great, and my 6'5" boyfriend can fit in both the front and back seats! The latter was a surprise to me -- I sat in the front passenger seat without my knees touching (I'm 5'7") and he could sit behind me without his knees touching. Unheard of in a subcompact! Anyway, I'm thrilled and just wanted to share. I don't love the dealer but I gotta love the car (so far, anyway)!
Just replaced the old hubcaps with new ones and guess what?, no noises! The first batches of these must have been somewhat defective. These newer ones are also brighter looking all around. Is this just my imagination?
So, my 2000 Echo (14k miles--no problems to date; clean service record) wouldn't start after being left with a parking valet at an airport for 3 days.
The battery was obviously drained--the engine wouldn't even turn and all dash lights were off. Seems that the valet guy left the door slightly open or the lights on or something. When the jumper cables were attached, the engine would turn but the car wouldn't start... so I got a tow to the local dealer (not my regular dealer--who I love and trust).
The dealer service claims that the battery is drained (yup) and that the O2 sensor is burned out. This is a warranty-covered repair, but could take a day or two to order the part.
For a second opinion, I called my regular dealer and he said that he had NEVER heard of a bad O2 sensor in an Echo... in his 14 months of dealing with this model. He also said, "they're telling you that a bad O2 sensor is the cause of the car not starting?"
So now, the suspicious dealer is getting the new O2 sensor and I'm confused. Who do I believe?
Any advice from you fine folks would be appreciated.
Questions:
1. Do dealers get paid by Toyota for under-warranty repairs? My point here: does the suspicious dealer have a financial motivation to make something up?
2. What should I do? a. Let suspicious dealer finish up the repair; b. have AAA tow my car the 35 miles to friendly dealer service; c. none of the above
I left my door ajar and the interior light was on for overnight (16 hours!) but the car started in the morning. Now I turn the switch so the interior light is always OFF. I dont believe the story about the O2 sensor either. If the tow is free, I'd take it back to someone you trust. Good luck!
I second the motion to have your car towed to your friendly dealer!! With my Ford, the dealer used to make up reasons for me to have work done. Yes, they make money off of warranty repairs. While my car was under warranty, they would ask me to bring my car in for any reason; after it was expired, they would give me a price quote and ask me to think it over! I still don't understand why an oxygen sensor would 'burn out' with the interior light left on...
The O2 sensor cannot be the cause of a car not starting (well, at least in most engine technologies). I won't specifically say this for the Echo, since I don't have its service manual yet. Kniesl??? In most cars (even my old 92 Tercel), the O2 sensor isn't looked at until the engine goes into closed loop mode (ie: after it warms up). You should be able to completely disconnect the O2 sensor, and the car will still start and run. (It will run like crap after it warms up, but will run) It will also kick a check engine code. Ask the dealer to show you the code readout.
On the other hand, O2 sensors are rather expensive ($100+ for most foreign cars). If he really is going to replace it, and its free, why not? Me, being a cynical $#@! would call his bluff. Tell him you've opened a case number with Toyota central and they've asked for the old one back for testing.
Now that we have moved to our new platform, we no longer have the requirement to stop and restart discussions after the numbers of posts exceed a certain limit. To keep from confusing our newer members down the road, we are going through the discussion list bit by bit and dropping the "part" numbers associated with some of our extended discussions.
Since this will be the permanent home for discussion of the Echo, I have removed the "7" from the title of this discussion and altered the name of the archived version to distinguish it from this one.
Please continue....
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i knew it from the start of my new car hunt........i just had to have a silver echo. everytime i would think about myself driving a new car (first time new car buyer)i'd picture myself crankin the tunes and zippin down the road in one. well my friends.......those daydreams came true.....last night to be exact....that my dad had finally come across the car i had hoped for.......and i got it last night. its got pretty much everything i wanted.......power steering...automatic.....air conditioning.......sunroof.......(nope, just kiddin i wish though........it only has an am/fm radio but that will soon change. over all im 110% happy with my new purchase........ive been reading all these passages from you guys and youve just pushed me even more to get the echo, THANK YOU!!!!!!! i'll keep ya posted on all my new experiences with my new silver baby! peace everyone! ~:)~
The dealer called yesterday and said that the O2 sensor was replaced, the battery was charged and car still wouldn't start. They investigated more and found a blown alternator fuse. I wish they had done a thorough exam in the first place so I wouldn't have to wait another freakin day.
His theory is that the guys who tried to jump the car for me (same parking lot guys who let the battery drain completely by leaving the door open or light on for 3 days) connected the jumper cables incorrectly and blew out certain fuses and portions of the car's electrical system. I'm not sure if this is a plausible scenario but I have nothing else to believe at this point.
I did ask him for evidence and a read out of the O2 sensor. He said he will show me when I pick up the car. He also said that Toyota Central opened their own case on this (one of the first blown O2 sensors that they have ever seen on an Echo) and so he cant show me the original dead O2 sensor since he has already shipped it back...(hmmm?)
He'll replace the fuse today and fingers crossed my ordeal will be over. Problem is that if I dot call the dealer service guy, he doesn't call me... not at all impressed with them. I guess no one ever said getting a car fixed is easy.
I'm still a big Echo fan. Just learned my lesson on a few counts:
1. Never valet your car at one of those private, "no hassle" off-airport lots. Self-park whenever you can
2. Always watch what someone is doing when they jump your car. I wasn't there when they did that to mine and I'm not sure my wife knew what to look for
3. Pay for AAA-Plus--which allows for 100 miles of free towing. It will increase your odds of being able to be towed to your trusted dealer and not just any old dealer.
When this is all over, I'll post the name of the dealer who has helped to aggravate this 4 day headache
Dont be so quick to think your O2 sensor was replaced flippantly...perhaps it WAS bad. Although that WOULD have nothing to do with the car not starting. Ask the dealer WHY they thought it was bad, perhaps the computer said it was. I think the dealer is also correct about the reason your car would not start, very plausible explaination. Which is GOOD because that puts the explaination for your car not starting on outside sources, it wouldnt be your ECHO's fault. Which means nothing was wrong with it to cause trouble down the line On the home front my wifes Accord wagon needed to be left over the weekend at the dealer to have the ac lines replaced and they gave us a free vehicle becuase they origionaly said the car would be ready friday. So we got a new Civic demo to drive around. This was EXACTLY the car I was thinking of buying along with the ECHO when I chose ECHO. So I've had a while to evaluate my decision with the competition. And the winner is....ECHO!!!! I was right! The Civic has turned into a BOAT! Overweight and underpowered. The difference is quite noticeable. Its stable enough on the road but SLOW. Nice build quality. Possibly better resale value than the ECHO also. Even my wife noticed the difference. (and they LAUGHED at me when I bought my ECHO!)
Congrats! So you decided to go with the Echo! Is it a two door or four door? I've had my silver two door for about a month and a half and I love it. It has just over 2000 miles on it now. I just recently made my first car payment and, even after that, I still love the car. I've been up to Toronto a couple times this past month and noticed alot of Echos up there. I only saw one in NYC, though. I don't know why I'm so into spotting other Echos. Anyway, Congrats again!
its been 3 days and me and my silver 2-door automatic are gettin along just fine..:) just cant wait to put the new stereo in.....im so glad i finally have my echo.....all the preparation was worth it!
I was looking for mud-guard for my echo and you recommended toyotaparts.com to me. I ordered them along with some touch-up paint and am very happy with there service. Found them polite, professional and quick (received parts in 2 days). Thanks!
So far, so good -- I'm very happy with my car. Thanks for the congrats! Vitaminj - I get excited when I see another Echo, too. I've only spied a few in Rochester: a silver, a green, and a white one. I waved once, but I don't think they saw me. The other times I didn't have my Echo yet, so it seemed a little silly to try and get their attention! Mine is a 4-door -- my old car was a 2-door Neon, and I decided that the 4-door would be more convenient this time around.
I'm actually itching to drive it... I carpool to work, so I haven't had as much of a chance. I took her on a nice long jaunt on Friday, though. I'm still trying to figure out the most comfortable seat position -- my foot was starting to get tired. If i can't figure it out, I may look into one of those after-market cruise controls. Does installing one have any effect on the warranty?
Re: Seating position...it's not you, but rather getting acclimated to the new position. For the first month I always felt like I was either too far or too close to the wheel and pedals. One thing I found is that the more upright the seatback the better. It does take some getting used to. The seat also seemed like it needs to be broken in. It's very comfy now that I have had it for 5 months. I never have any discomfort, even on 5 hour trips! Enjoy your new toy!!!
Putting the seat back to a more upright position does help a great deal. Installing an armrest helps alot more to. It seemed to make a world of difference for me!
My wifes Honda Accord, sent in to the Honda dealer to repair the airconditioner, has been languishing there for a week. It seems the mechanic who started working on it "has not been in" for four days. No one else will work on a car another has started for fear that if something goes wrong they will be blamed. Apparentlly the dealer cannot get anyone to come in and work on cars. Wow! I may have to unretire and return to being my own mechanic after learning of this development, in spite of my bad back. I'm assuming the same conditions must prevail at my Toyota dealer.
My Echo has just passed the 8,000 mile mark... I recently went to South Florida in my Echo and averaged 43-46 miles per gallon... it was great passing many fuel stations on the interstate that are already charging $2.00 plus for regular unleaded gas right off the interstate 75...Gas can still be found for $1.50 but, one needs to look and its easy with a miser on fuel! What are people going to do? when fuel is rationed as in the late 70's... I remember 5 gallons per customer... waiting in line... 5 gallons back when in my old Buick meant I could park my car and leave it but, with my Echo I can drive to and from work and still have plenty of gas left for leisure driving. Thanks Toyota!!! a buyer for life! John
My 20 year old son's best friend wanted to drive my Echo to see if he liked it since he will be needing another vehicle. He drove it over to show his mom. His mom liked it so much she wants him to drive her car so she can buy her an Echo.
Comments
You should negotiate the price of the vehicle first and then hit them with the fact that you want to lease after that.
In a lease, car dealers want you to focus (no pun intended) on the low lease payment. Lease payments will always be lower than the payment to buy the vehicle when comparing loans and leases of the same length. That does not mean you got a good deal when you lease. If a dealer knows beforehand that you are going to lease, he can play with the numbers and make it appear he is giving you a great lease payment when in fact he is giving himself some great profit.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against a dealer making a profit. I am against dealers making unreasonable profits.
Before you lease, you need to determine if leasing is for you. Leases are for people who are only going to keep a car for two or three years, only drive about 12,000 miles a year, and take great care of the car. If you do not do ALL of these, then leasing is not for you.
I am not sure if Canada has a Barnes and Noble or a Borders, but I believe you have a book store chain called Chapters. Whatever it is called, I would go there. If you can skim through a book called the Unofficial Guide to Buying or Leasing a Car, I would suggest you do so.
I cannot really tell you if $199 is a good deal without knowing the length of the lease, the price of the Echo, and the money factor. Also, would need to know what taxes and fees are included (if any) in that payment. To find out, I would suggest calling the dealership from a phone that is not in your house and I would use a false name. No sense in giving them advance warning that you are interested in a lease.
Sorry for the rambling thoughts. If I can be of any further assistance, I will give it.
Given you mention the 2000 model, I have to believe that you are interested in a used Echo. Anyway, since we will soon be seeing 2002 models, I consider a 2000 model to be a used vehicle. If you are looking at a used 2000, I would start looking through your local paper (or the paper of the nearest big city if it is about 100 miles away or less) for prices of used Echos. I would also go on the 'net and look for Echos equipped like you want. Get an idea of what a used Echo is selling for in the real world as well as the value the web sites give.
On a used car, I am not sure that invoice (for when the car was new) is the principal guiding factor any more. If you are interested in a used Echo, I would check out Edmunds' used car section and don't get the pricing through the new car section. I would also check out the used car prices on Kelly's Blue Book (KBB.com) as well as any other sites you know about.
If your use of 2000 was a typo and you mean 2001 or it is a "new" 2000, I think a good rule of thumb is three to five percent over invoice. This allows the salesman to make some money. Do not give them the maximum amount you are willing to pay for the vehicle, though. Make them work up to your number rather than you making a line in the sand and trying to stand firm.
Also, check out the article Confessions of a Car Salesman here on Edmunds. Find books at your library about buying a car and read.
Finally, I would try to get financing from some place other than the car dealership. Financing is another possible profit center for a dealership. Get this financing in place before you set foot in the show room.
I hope my rambling thoughts have helped you.
The dealer tried to get me into a lease when I was negotiating for my Echo. They want to hook you with a low lease payment but looks can be deceiving as you said. A lease would make more sense on a car that has large depreciation but Toyota's in general have great resale value.
Anyone out there with 2-door model? Just wonder what the difference in resale is between 4 and 2 door.
Also, anyone have any luck installing driving/fog lamps on their echo?
I wrote the first review and I must admit it is not very well written. I had written a very nice rebuttal to Edmunds' review and I submitted it, but was then informed that reviews had to be 2500 words or less. Flustered and sure someone else was writing a review (and would thus be first), I quickly threw a review together.
Good or bad, please write and post a review.
While it hasn't been very hot here, I do notice a difference in the degree of cold air coming through the system now.
I'll really know how it works when it gets hot again.
BTW: I've had the car just about exactly a year, have 14,500+ miles. I did a big road trip last summer and got a rock chip that turned into a big crack so I had to replace the windshield. But no mechanical problems of any kind whatsoever. I DO have to slow down to 60mph in winds over 25mph to avoid getting shoved around though. But it's a comfy and peppy little car and I'm a happy camper.
The pipe you want to insulate is the fatter of the two and it is "S" shaped. If you are unsure, just run the a/c and feel for the cold one.
I don't know if the dealer would do it and what they would charge. It's very simple to do yourself. I also replaced the oem horn with a large FIAM blower type horn. Now my Echo sounds like a Buick! LOL
Some comments on my echo:
Pluses: Great mileage (42 in mixed driving), spacious interior, great ride, view of the road, very good acceleration, good build quality, some nice features such as rear head rests, tilt wheel, my car came stock with Michelins (Wow!)
Misses: Rear window defroster not standard (silly, I would have happily paid an extra $100 or so for this), have to open windows to adjust outside mirrors (not even a little "stick" control to adjust from inside), shifter is too notchy though the clutch is great and the car is an easy car to drive, much to suseptable to being blown around in the wind, accessories are limited and expensive (no mud guards, upgrading from AM-FM radio to 3 in 1 costs $1400!)
Overall I really like the echo. I got it as an advertised "loss leader". I paid $9995 plus tax and license. The car is a coupe, 5spd, a/c, AM-FM, PS. Great Value!
It will be interesting to see what happens this summer with gas prices. Here in San Diego we are paying $1.80 for standard unleaded. The prediction is for well over $2 per gallon this summer. If this happens we may have made an even better purchase then we originally thought. Don't you wonder if dealers will start charging a premium for fuel efficient cars like they did in the 70's?
Thanks for a great forum,
Chris
The funny thing about the 'remote'mirrors is that you have to reach over to the passenger side almost as much as if you were to reach outside to move em.
Mine came with a couple of things that were totally frivolous and had the cost deducted; rear spoiler and pin striping. The funny thing is that the two things combined actually give the car a different profile-longer. A friend of mine that refuses to like the car even said that mine didn't look as short as others he had seen.
You might want to have the dealer look at the instrument cluster light as mine is fairly evenly lit. Maybe the bulb is out of position? Mine is actually brightest to the right of the display and fades out to the left.
Your shifter should loosen up eventually. Mine was very sticky/notchy at first but after a few thousand miles, it is much easier to work.
Have fun passing all those gas stations!!
The sticker price on my car was $12,400. At first, the insurance adjuster mistakenly thought the car was a 2000 and prepared an appraisal based on comparable cars (which made sense to me,since I used to be in the mortgage business and was used to dealing with real estate appraisals). Of course, he neglected to include half the options the car was equipped with, charged me too much depreciation for mileage, and called it a 2000. Nevertheless, at that rate he arrived at a value of 12,800.
That was a few hundred bucks short of my payoff figure, so I called the mistakes to his attentin. Big mistake! Although I got conflicting information from two different adjusters, he was the one handling my case, so to determine value he simply took the sticker price and subtracted 21 cents for each mile I'd driven. The math wasn't pretty; he arrived at a cash value (for a 5-month-old car that had been in perfect condition prior to the wreck) of $10,400!
So, I AM back on the road in another Echo (Electric Green, they call it, I think). I have to say, the ones on the lot weren't half as good looking as my first one--they've all got the body cladding and contrasting protective strips on the doors, which I think look horrible on the lighter colored cars. I'm also not thrilled with the weird matte black strips pasted on the posts between the windows. My first Echo was just solid black paint all over, and to me at least, it looked a heck of a lot classier than the ones with all the extraneous bits of plastic stuck on them.
The folks at my dealership, by the way, were amazed at the photographs of the post-wreck car; they wanted me to send copies to show potential customers how well the car held up...
It cost me, though--I wound up having to finance the gap between the insurance payout and my actual payoff figure, which really hurt since I've still been making my payments for the six weeks this has been going on. I'm now fairly confident that I own the most expensive Echo in the continental United States...
Oh, I also got an automatic this time instead of a stick. It was against my better judgment and I'll never really be thrilled with an automatic, but my family insisted it made no sense to have a car that no one else could drive in an emergency. Oh well...
Next time, I'll hit whatever runs in front of me...
It is my guess that this place gets them from Toyota Canada...
http://www.toyotapart.com/
I got the silver color because that was what was on the lot and wish I didn't. I think green or black would be a lot sportier. But no other geegaws!
I agree, next time make darn sure before swerving to avoid anything other than a cow, moose, or human. Bad enough to total out a car (could have been worse...they might have made you fix it!) but it would have been much worse to kill/injure yourself or another person. Good luck with the new ECHO! I think it says a lot for the ECHO (and you) that you went through this experience and still opted for an ECHO replacement!
Thanks for the referral on the mudguards . Exactly what I was looking for.
great company to do business with i
but a hood deflector and cargo net for my echo there
???? Did you have to drill holes to install the mud guards my two door coupe has the body cladding
Anyone out there ever see an Echo with ABS and side air bags? Know where to find one? If so, appreciate knowing where. Also, any aftermarket center arm rest/console applications that are decent? How much and who has them? Thanks.
All of this only at the expense of the dorky-looking rear wheels
Cheers,
levine
The a/c line insulation proved itself during a couple of days of desert sunshine and temps near 90!! If anybody lives in a warm climate it's worth the effort!!
The battery was obviously drained--the engine wouldn't even turn and all dash lights were off. Seems that the valet guy left the door slightly open or the lights on or something. When the jumper cables were attached, the engine would turn but the car wouldn't start... so I got a tow to the local dealer (not my regular dealer--who I love and trust).
The dealer service claims that the battery is drained (yup) and that the O2 sensor is burned out. This is a warranty-covered repair, but could take a day or two to order the part.
For a second opinion, I called my regular dealer and he said that he had NEVER heard of a bad O2 sensor in an Echo... in his 14 months of dealing with this model. He also said, "they're telling you that a bad O2 sensor is the cause of the car not starting?"
So now, the suspicious dealer is getting the new O2 sensor and I'm confused. Who do I believe?
Any advice from you fine folks would be appreciated.
Questions:
1. Do dealers get paid by Toyota for under-warranty repairs? My point here: does the suspicious dealer have a financial motivation to make something up?
2. What should I do? a. Let suspicious dealer finish up the repair; b. have AAA tow my car the 35 miles to friendly dealer service; c. none of the above
HELP....!
Thanks in advance from a long-time lurker
I still don't understand why an oxygen sensor would 'burn out' with the interior light left on...
In most cars (even my old 92 Tercel), the O2 sensor isn't looked at until the engine goes into closed loop mode (ie: after it warms up). You should be able to completely disconnect the O2 sensor, and the car will still start and run. (It will run like crap after it warms up, but will run)
It will also kick a check engine code. Ask the dealer to show you the code readout.
On the other hand, O2 sensors are rather expensive ($100+ for most foreign cars). If he really is going to replace it, and its free, why not? Me, being a cynical $#@! would call his bluff. Tell him you've opened a case number with Toyota central and they've asked for the old one back for testing.
Thank you all. I'll let you know what happens.
Now that we have moved to our new platform, we no longer have the requirement to stop and restart discussions after the numbers of posts exceed a certain limit. To keep from confusing our newer members down the road, we are going through the discussion list bit by bit and dropping the "part" numbers associated with some of our extended discussions.
Since this will be the permanent home for discussion of the Echo, I have removed the "7" from the title of this discussion and altered the name of the archived version to distinguish it from this one.
Please continue....
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
His theory is that the guys who tried to jump the car for me (same parking lot guys who let the battery drain completely by leaving the door open or light on for 3 days) connected the jumper cables incorrectly and blew out certain fuses and portions of the car's electrical system. I'm not sure if this is a plausible scenario but I have nothing else to believe at this point.
I did ask him for evidence and a read out of the O2 sensor. He said he will show me when I pick up the car. He also said that Toyota Central opened their own case on this (one of the first blown O2 sensors that they have ever seen on an Echo) and so he cant show me the original dead O2 sensor since he has already shipped it back...(hmmm?)
He'll replace the fuse today and fingers crossed my ordeal will be over. Problem is that if I dot call the dealer service guy, he doesn't call me... not at all impressed with them. I guess no one ever said getting a car fixed is easy.
I'm still a big Echo fan. Just learned my lesson on a few counts:
1. Never valet your car at one of those private, "no hassle" off-airport lots. Self-park whenever you can
2. Always watch what someone is doing when they jump your car. I wasn't there when they did that to mine and I'm not sure my wife knew what to look for
3. Pay for AAA-Plus--which allows for 100 miles of free towing. It will increase your odds of being able to be towed to your trusted dealer and not just any old dealer.
When this is all over, I'll post the name of the dealer who has helped to aggravate this 4 day headache
Thanks all for the advice
down the line
On the home front my wifes Accord wagon needed to be left over the weekend at the dealer to have the ac lines replaced and they gave us a free vehicle becuase they origionaly said the car would be ready friday. So we got a new Civic demo to drive around. This was EXACTLY the car I was thinking of buying along with the ECHO when I chose ECHO. So I've had a while to evaluate my decision with the competition. And the winner is....ECHO!!!! I was right! The Civic has turned into a BOAT! Overweight and underpowered. The difference is quite noticeable. Its stable enough on the road but SLOW. Nice build quality. Possibly better resale value than the ECHO also. Even my wife noticed the difference. (and they LAUGHED at me when I bought my ECHO!)
Live Happy,
breckco
myself
I'm actually itching to drive it... I carpool to work, so I haven't had as much of a chance. I took her on a nice long jaunt on Friday, though. I'm still trying to figure out the most comfortable seat position -- my foot was starting to get tired. If i can't figure it out, I may look into one of those after-market cruise controls. Does installing one have any effect on the warranty?