Toyota Echo

cliffy1

Toyota does not give a warranty to the owner. It give it to the car. The warranty always stays with the car, no matter who owns it.

jhall7

Your information helped me make a decision.

I drove the car this morning and was impressed with the quality.

I made a counter offer and it was accepted. I look forward to putting many miles on the Echo.

Thanks again for the info.

Jack

treybrad

Hi,
I am in the process of buying a 2000 Echo with only 15K mi. It is a 5-speed. What is the general opinion as far as type of oil to use? My understanding has always been that synthetic will help with gas mileage and longevity of the car. However I have also heard stories of it eating gaskets as well... I want to do whatever it takes to make this car last. I love the Echo, and I want to be able to take the best care of it that I can. Any other tips? Also, do you guys recommend the RedLine MTL products for manual transmission fluid?

Thanks for your help,
Trey Bradshaw
treybrad@home.com

kneisl1

Synthetic oil has only one use in automobile engines: that is when temperatures drop well below freezing on a regular basis. It will not make the engine last any longer and its very expensive. To keep your warranty in effect it must be changed according to the schedule in your owners manual. This means an oil change costs $5 for the oil filter plus 4 X $6 a quart equals $30. An oil change with regular dinosaur oil costs $11. Also synthetic oil is much thinner than dino oil and if you have a leak or your car is burning oil $$ goes right out the tailpipe. My experience is that engines leak and weap oil when sythetic is used. You could even conceivably blow your engine if the oil level gets low and you dont catch it. The only suggestion I would make is that although the owners manual calls for the use of 5w-30 year round the service manual has a chart which shows that 10w-40 should be used with temperatures above 60 degrees F. I too want my car to last as long as possible, so I change my oil every three months and the filter every other change. But I only drive my ECHO about 7k miles a year. If I drove a lot of highway miles, Id change it every 5k miles. Ive never heard of Redline MTL transmission oil, as long as it meets standard GL4 it should work fine in your ECHO. But I dont think its better than other similiar oils. My experience as a car mechanic taught me that engines blow when they get older, start using oil, and the owners dont check the oil level on a regular basis, then the engine blows due to lack of oil. Checking your oil level is more important than changing it, IME.

kaz6

The only time synthetic oil has shown in tests to give an advantage is during high stress and/or high operating temperatures. I've used it in my motorcycle(oil cooled) and all my previous cars. Consumer Reports has said that if you drive in extreme conditions(I drive to Vegas once a month and in the summer it gets very hot)then you'll be fine with regular oil. They did say that the best brand of synthetic is Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is also OEM oil in Porsches. Have run sythetic in three cars with a total of 280,000 and have had no problems. The manual recommends oil change every 5k in severe duty or every 7k under normal use. 3k is no longer needed in most new cars and Consumer Reports says you can go 7k without any damage or loss of protection. They did very extensive tests in NYC cabs btw to reach their recommendations. Synthetic is expensive so use it only if you drive long and hard.

vadp

Check out the armtdm "Engine Sludge?" May 16, 2001 11:49am forum.

If you want to keep your engine clean, switch to the synthetic. It's clearly superior to the dino oil in every way and will cost you just a little extra (in comparison to any engine repair bill). If your warranty requires changing oil at the 7K-mile interval - do it. After the warranty expires you can safely extend the interval to 10-15K miles.

squeeziechum

hi everyone. I bought a new echo this weekend and I love it. but I am so bummed after reading what the car manual says about the break-in period. it says I can't go over 55mph for the first 1000 miles! the main reason I bought the car was to have excellent gas mileage so I don't want to drive too fast and cancel out the benefit but how can I possibly go slower than 55mph? the car is just so fun to drive! I live in houston so this means i cant even get on the freeway--i would get mowed over. did any of you adhere to this 55mph rule for the first 1000 miles? what is your gas mileage if you didn't?
thanks.

babyboomer

During the first 1000 miles I noticed once that I was going at least 62 mph. So from then on I tried not to look anymore. No problem, no guilt.

kneisl1

Actually, the 55 mile an hour speed limit is kind of a generic term for all Toyota vehicles. They actually dont want the engine to exceed 4000 rpm (the ECHOs engine revs to 6000 normally) but needed to come up with a figure to cover all vehicles in all conditions. If 6000 rpm gives ECHO a top speed of 105 mph, then 4000/6000 X 105 equals 70 mph you can actually go. I know you dont believe me, but its true.

kaz6

I think that the most important thing during the break-in period is not to do jack-rabbit starts and vary the engine speed. I didn't watch the 55mph guideline when breaking in mine and it seems to be fine. I did have to drive to Vegas during the break-in period and just made sure I was varying my speeds between 65-70-60. If you happened to have bought a 5-speed the transmission does loosen up quite a bit after break-in.

kneisl1

Yes I would like to agree with kaz6 that after three or four thousand miles my manaual shifter is a lot easier to use. One thing I noticed origionally was that the shifter was notchy and stiff, but for those considering a manual transmission, it does seem to be better. Or maybe Im better at shifting it.

squeeziechum

kneisl1, thanks for the info. where did you find it? too bad the echo doesnt have a tachometer! i didnt think it would be that big of a deal but it would be handy to make sure i keep it <4000 rpm during break-in. do you know of another car that has the same engine? then maybe i could test drive it to see what speed gives me 4000rpm in 5th gear.

on another note, i did get a 5 speed manual but haven't noticed it shifting stiff. i used to drive a nissan sentra and it stayed stiff for 4 years so i guess i'm used to it.

spiehler

I will definitely miss having a tach. It's just plain wrong to have a manual transmission without one.

What I noticed in my first test drive was that there is hardly any travel in the clutch pedal, and I stalled it more often that I like to admit. (No, I'm not new to shifting, either--16 years in my present manual :^) I got used to it quickly, though, and didn't stall once in my second, 40mi test.

spiehler

My Toyota dude called me today to say he located an ECHO for me in Michigan and that it's on its way to Ohio. The bad part is that it's probably being DRIVEN from there to here; think the driver will adhere to the break-in rules?

I paid a bit more than I wanted to, but I intend to keep the car for a long time and was getting tired of the sales games with other dealers. I ended up using stoneage.com, which farmed the request to autobytel. In about a week, we had worked-out what I wanted and the car was on its way. The process wasn't as smooth as it could have been, but it beat sitting in a showroom for 90 minutes while some doofus quoted MSRP higher than it should be or calling dealers and not even getting a call back.

And: I have a *line* of people (well, 2) waiting to my 1984 Honda Prelude.

editorialwe

I too am a little concerned about the break-in period. I only have 230 miles on my new baby but I must confess I certainly did go above 55 mph several times the day after I bought it (I was actually the first and only person to test-drive my Echo). I certainly need to go places that involve highway travel, though my commute is very short and surface streets only. Dilemma.

I don't know what the Edmunds editors were smoking when they reviewed the Echo, but they kept saying "It might be OK in a congested area where streets are in bad shape, but here in LA where we coast around on open freeways..." Which parallel universe do they live in? 'Cause I live in the LA where it's congested, full of potholes, and freeways are rarely moving freely.

They are in SANTA MONICA, for cat's sake. Do they jump on the 10 and just whiz along? Please.

kneisl1

Car and Driver test drove the ECHO and they published a list of speeds a various RPMs Also, there is a Toyota website which has the 4000rpm limit in it which my dealer told me about. Forget where it is now...

squeeziechum

i found this on the car and driver website:

ROAD TEST: Toyota Echo

Page 4 of 6

Final-drive ratio. . . . . . . . . . .3.53:1

Gear Ratio Mph/1000 rpm Max. test speed
I 3.55 5.3 53 mph (6500 rpm)

II 1.90 9.8 64 mph (6500 rpm)
III 1.31 14.3 93 mph (6500 rpm)

IV 0.97 19.3 112 mph (5800 rpm)
V 0.82 22.9 112 mph (4900 rpm)

so this means i can go up to 91mph in 5th gear to stay <4000 rpm! how did they come up with 55mph? guess i don't have to worry.

cliffy1

I'll give ya'll a quote from one of my mechanics... "Cliffy, a monkey could drive that thing and not hurt it. That section is still in the book to keep the lawyers happy."

Yes, I know what the book says and I know all the theories. I just thought you might like to know that at least one Toyota Master Technician thinks otherwise.

rajmoran

Hello ECHOistas! I've been riding my motorcycle a lot since the weather started getting warm so I haven't put a lot of miles on the ECHO in a while. Gas prices are starting to creep dangerously close to the $2 mark, so I'm certainly loving the fact that I drive one of the thriftiest cars around.

I've noticed several ECHOs around here (northern Virginia) being used by businesses. One of then seems to be a courier service. Hmmm.

Mine is performing flawlessy as I expected and I laugh at the SUVers as I cruise by the pumps.

I hope you all are well.

jhall7

I noticed several chips on the front area of the Echo after only about 1500 miles. I realize that this is bound to happen to some degree, however, it seems that the amount of stone chips are somewhat excessive for the use.

I have also noticed some surface rust in the trunk. No big deal, I will sand a little and paint the interior of the trunk.

Has anyone else experienced excessive chipping?

I am considering a bra, but am told that they are a real pain. As I understand it, they have to be taken off after it rains or when any dust is realized.

Has anyone had any luck using a bra on the Echo?

I really enjoy the Echo and everyone who has seen it is quite amazed at the amount of space both inside the car and in the trunk. It is efficient and fun to drive. It is much faster than I thought it would be.

If anyone has any thoughts on the chipping or especially the use of the bra, I would appreciate their opinions.

Thanks,
Jack

kaz6

Sorry to hear you have been having bad luck with pait issues! I have driven my Echo nearly 9000 miles in six months and have just one chip so far. The Echo has a 'snub' nose so there is a lot of surface that would be hit by stones. The part where my chip is is where the hood meets the grill. The metal has a vertical surface there that takes the brunt of the airflow. Keep you paint polished at all times as this will keep the paint from drying out and becoming fragile. I haven't used a bra on any car I've owned so can't comment on that. Rust??? Was your car sitting out in the open for a long time before being sold?
Good luck with your Echo!!

jbear87

kneisl1, the 70 mph you calculated might not be correct. You are assuming that rpm and mph is linear. This is not the case. The reason why cars get worse mileage at greater speeds is b/c of greater resistance from the air. Therefore, your 70 mph calculation is probably off and on the conservative side.

thoover

We have also seen chipping of the paint (15K miles). Winters are hard on cars in PA. I saw a green dealer demo with 6K miles that had about a dozen hood chips. We also have chips on driver side door edges that face forward (I try to never follow close to avoid). I have wondered if ECHO is made using a cheap paint process. Where we hit the deer with the blue ECHO the paint flaked over the bend - it is very thin, and it flaked off to bare metal. The insurance adjuster said the paint job was poor.

I love my ECHOs and have waxed on a regular basis, and kept them washed, and the salt rinsed off. One neighbor thinks I am obsessive...

jhall7

Bought a bottle of #209 black paint from the dealer. He looked at the chips and said it was simply an unfortunate situation.

Having taken a closer look, I am not sure that what I saw was rust. Dealer said he thought it was some kind of grease used to lubricate during assembly and it simply hardened. Looked a lot like specks of surface rust.

Love the Echo! I can deal with the chips. To this point, the car is everything that I hoped for.

Will purchase side molding and replace hub caps with "baby moons". I am sure most of you are too young to know what they are.

I will also have cruise installed and that should just about do it.

By the way, I insulated the air conditioning line even though the air was as cold or folder than that of my Oldsmobile.

I can't understand how the car will blow cold air with the air conditioner off and just the outside vent on, coupled with the lever pointed to the outside range. Does anyone know how this works?

Thanks,
Jack

sonatafan

My Echo has just topped 33,000 miles and I have to say I have had quite a few chips in the front of the car. I get chips from the grille to the windshield and even on the front fenders. It's just a part of highway driving. I too have bought the black touch-up paint from the dealer and it helps considerably, although I haven't had any road debris break through the primer.

By the way, I'm 23 years old and I know what baby moons are!!

janbee

I do not do much highway driving, 95% city driving and I still have maybe 2-3 small chips around the front-hood toyota emblem..I recently installed a bug deflector to help protect this sensitive area & hopefully wont come across any more chips.

jhall7

Sonata fan, I stand corrected! I didn't think baby moons had been around for some time.

It is my honest opinion that the paint on the Echo is a little more susceptible to damage than is normal. Jan bee, where did you get your bug deflector? I will try one as well.

I have a real issue. I insulated the entire line from the fire wall to the end. It included the metal line initially, the black rubber line and then the metal line just before entering at the bottom. When I feel the bottom of the metal line it feels hot. I do not want to insulate the bottom and keep the heat in if it will be detrimental.

Could anyone tell me how far I should have insulated the line before stopping? And will it harm anything to have insulated too far down?

Thanks,
Jack

kaz6

the only part I insulated is the one that is bent at a right angle coming from the firewall and has a valve on it. It is then a rubber coated line from then on. It is the one that is cold when the ac is running. Don't know what happens if you did both. Wouldn't think you would want to insulate a pipe that is hot though.
My a/c has worked very well since wrapping it.
As far as the vent lever; if it is at the 'outside air'(rt hand)position and the fan off, air will flow into the cabin naturally. Make sure the temp control is set to the coldest position. When running the a/c on the highway, you'll find that you don't need to run the fan as hard as the airflow will be strong regardless.

rjgee

Hi,

I found this and posted a long time ago, but this probably bears repeating so everyone can benefit. The reason you feel cold air, even when the AC is "off", is that the AC is really on. If you have the lever in the 'windshield defrost' setting, and the fan on, the AC is really on, even though the green light isn't showing.

-Rob

janbee

I got my bug deflector from the toyota dealership where I bought my echo...my friend knows the mechanic there so I got a bit of a deal ($50 CDN & he installed it for me) I would think it would also be available in the U.S., if your dealership cant order it in for you try www.toyotaguys.com, they seem to be able to find anything...When I first thought of a bug deflector I didnt think it would be too attractive, but my car is black and the deflector is black so it really blends in, fits the echo to a T, it also says toyota in small print on the deflector so you know its going to be a perfect fit (not like those walmart deflectors you see on some cars)...the only thing I dont like is that you cant really see the toyota symbol, but thats not too important

jhall7

Thank you for the explanation.

I assumed that the air must have been on somehow. Not only because of the cold nature, but also because the engine would idle down slightly when I turned it on.

Kaz6, I insulated the large metal part with the nipple on it. I continued to insulate the rubber hose that was connected to it. I then continued to insulate where the rubber hose intersected more metal pipe at the very bottom. That is where it felt hot. At the very bottom.

So I only insulated one pipe, but I insulated it from the fire wall to where it ended.

Did you insulate the the whole length including both ends of the large metal and the rubber hose in between?

I can easily cut some of the bottom if I have gone too far.

Thanks,
Jack

jhall7

Just called two Toyota dealers and they both said that they don't "think" that a bug shield is available for the Echo. Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it.

I will try the web site that you gave me.

Thanks for the information.

Jack

blue_echo

So what are baby moons? I've never heard of them. Do you think they'd be more susceptible to theft than the originals?

kaz6

I only insulated the metal part...didn't feel the rubber part would need to be covered. I also think if you covered the rubber part it might rot over time.
Baby moons? Aren't those the type that cover only the middle of the wheel? Police cars used to use those back in the day
*hint on my age* One of the first cars I owned new was a Mazda Cosmo and I test drove the Le Car when it first hit our shores!!!

blackdiamond1

Been awhile! I just over the past couple of days reviewed all the posts since I was last here at the beginning of Oct. I've had my 2000, 4 door, black sand pearl, automatic ECHO since March of last year. I've got about 11,500 miles on it. Haven't had anything done except the standard oil changes. Just to comment on a few of the topics discussed....

I was impressed this past winter with how my ECHO handled in the snow. I got stuck in white-out conditions one day. I drove especially slow but my ECHO stopped on a dime and took off just as well. I saw many MANY cars that couldn't even take off from a stop light. My only concern on that day was being run over by very large and impatient SUB drivers who chose to drive on sidewalks to get around the stuck cars that I was behind. Also, we went up to TV for a ski trip with a bunch of our friends. Out of all of our friends' cars (a total of 8 vehicles) only the ECHO and a 4WD pick up made it through the whole week long trip without a hitch! Many of our friends were quite pleased with the roominess of the ECHO as they'd have never made it to the mountains in their cars.

Another point I thought I'd mention is regarding the AC. I remember someone mentioning that the AC is much more effective and will not freeze up if you use recycled air as opposed to fresh. Just thought I'd mention it again in case it might help some of you.

Anyway, nice to be back after so many months and very nice to see that there have not been any terribly grave reports on the ECHO's performance.

cliffy1

Good to hear your report on the ECHO. Your experience matches what I have seen here on our lot. In Northern VA, we don't get a lot of snow, but when we do, I have to move them around the lot. The ECHO seems to have the right combination of tires and balance to move in snow.

jhall7

"Baby Moons" are just as you described. I think a polished aluminum or chrome set would set off the black Echo nicely.

Becuse they just cover the center of the rim you could see the black on the rim outlining the chrome. Besides, I really don't like the factory alternatives.

Concerning the AC, I will cut the insulation off all but the initial metal just to be sure.

Still can't find a bug shield. Toyotaguys have one, but it is not made by Toyota. Might have to go with the bra.

Toyotaguys also offered to send me the cruise package for $290.00. I would have to find someone to install it. Dealers around here don't offer aftermarket cruise.

Thanks,
Jack

majorthomecho

I was over on the Rio board suggesting a poster look at the Echo also when deciding on a new car. This caused much debate and the upshot was that I was politely told by a host that the new comparison folders are where the differences between two competing cars should be discussed. To that end, I have created a discussion group for comparing the Echo and other models. I titled it Toyota Echo vs. ????.

I do have one question. Who do you consider to be the Echo's (both models - 2dr and 4dr) competition? Personally when I was looking for a new car, I looked at the 2000 Dodge Neon, the Chevrolet Cavalier, the Ford Focus, the Hyundai Accent, and the Kia Sephia among others.

Would love to have anyone stop by and compare the Echo they bought with another car they were looking at.

Hope to see you there.

editorialwe

VW Golf?

spiehler

I picked it up Saturday. It had 240 miles on it; I asked my salesguy whether the guy who drove it from Michigan to Columbus followed the break-in guidelines, and he claimed the driver did.

I've put only 60 miles on it, and all's well. It looks huge sitting next to my wife's Protege :^). One oddity is that the dealer gave me a Goodyear warranty brochure, but the tires are Bridgestone.

Seafoam blue is a bit darker than I expected (I had never seen one in person, just pictures) and I like it.

I'm somewhat dismayed to read the recent posts about paint chips, but I'm not entirely surprised. The paint on the '90 Mazda Protege is thin (my impression is that Proteges are a bit more "upscale" now) and has chips on the front. Man, my ol' Prelude has excellent paint (no, haven't sold it yet). Something has to give on an inexpensive car, but I had hoped that top-notch paint had trickled down.

sonatafan

Columbus, OH? If so, another Echo in the neighborhood!!

janbee

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/0113bfull.gif

dsgecho

Even after 3K miles, getting the echo to go in reverse is still quite a chore. The rest of the gearshist seems to have loosened upa bit and I have gotten more competent at shifting certainly.
Any suggestions or similar experiences?
Don

kaz6

my Echo has almost 9k on it...like you, the only gear that's balky is the reverse gear. If you have trouble shifting into reverse, just double-clutch and it should go in with no problem. I guess the synchro for reverse is not the greatest. Had the same thing happen with my Suzuki GSX-1100 and my ole Subaru. Ironically, both also had rep's as being 'bullet proof'.

majorthomecho

My Echo has about 6600 miles on it and I really have not noticed it being hard getting my car into reverse. And yes, I do have a manual. : )

persyn

hey I ordered the bug defelector and cruise kit from toyotaguys. Both are excellent!! Bug deflector is just like toyotas, fits to a T, high quality. Cruise kit came with everything, is easy to install, looks factory, same kit the SouthEast toyota dealers are putting on their cars. Took about 2and half hours, just because I took my time; no problems whatsoever. Also ordered the window weather shields, also an excellent fit and quality. have been very pleased with their service.

squeeziechum

how much did your cruise control kit cost from toyota? i asked yesterday about the cost for the kit plus installment and they say $510 (i live in texas). that seemed a bit high. but on the other hand, i dont know much about cars and would be too afraid to install it myself. i wonder if a non-toyota mechanic would be able to correctly install it for less money.... any suggestions would be helpful.

jhall7

Like sqeeziechum, I would like your opinion on installing the cruise if a person is not mechanically inclined. Did instructions come with the kit?

Hearing you are please with the bug shield makes me more comfortable with ordering it.

About the widow weather shields. I have a black two door. How do you think the weather shields would look on black? Was it relatively easy to put them on? I would assume the tape was forgiving enough to let you move it a little if you were out of line.

I was a little dissapointed with "Toyota guys". I saw their add for cruise charging $260.00. When I em-ailed them for information they sent me back an em-ail saying the price was now $290.00. I also noticed that they changed their website price to $290.00. Not a big deal, but it annoyed me that they would do that.

Thanks,
Jack

kneisl1

Could someone please post the address for the toyota guys? Thanks!

janbee

www.toyotaguys.com