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I took delivery of an Absolutely Red, 4-door, 5-speed manual Echo on Monday. It has Package #1 and #2 and the weather package. I want to thank everyone here -- It was the conversations happening in this Town Hall that made me decide to go with the Echo rather than Honda or VW.
I am now in the process of teaching my 15-year-old (driver's permit and 4-months' experience in an automatic SUV) to drive a manual. Any sage advice you can pass on to me?
Also, I'm thinking about installing those little plastic things that go over the windows, so you can leave them open without the rain getting in (don't know what they are called). Has anyone done so? Is it a good idea or a waste of money?
Thanks in advance.
Jds
Welcome aboard.
It was a form letter saying that my concerns have been shared with the editorial team and any necessary corrections will be done as soon as possible (or words to that effect).
Let's just see how long it takes them to correct this.
I think tossing the words "libel suit" at a company is a great way to guarantee that you'll get a vaguely-worded form-letter response.
-Gunny
http://www.RobertBlake.net
Re: learning stick...I had a wonderful driving instructor teach me how to drive a stick. I too had experience driving an automatic first.
The best thing he did was tell me to get used to the clutch with my shoes off...I know it's not legal in some states to drive without footwear but it helped me get the feel of the clutch and how it engages the gear.
Good luck!!!
*I had to learn the stick when I picked up my new car-a Subaru BRAT('79)!!!
Dude, don't debate buying an Echo. If you are already thinking about it, then do it. There's little chance you will regret it. I lurked this board last July before buying my car. I read every post(4 thousand or so) and became convinced of buying the car. My car has 16,000 miles on it. I just took it on an endurance trip of 6,000 miles in two weeks. We drove I-90 from Washington to Philadelphia, and then back. The Echo held up at 80 mph. It held up at 90 mph. It held up at 100 mph. Driving across Montana and South Dakota takes a long time. Coming back we hit major winds in South Dakota. Driving 75mph into 40mph winds and the Echo was alright. Of course the car shook and shimmied a little bit, but no worse than other cars on the Interstate. Buy one and have fun. It's not like other cars. It's different, that's all.
PS mbohun: That's great mileage. Don't expect the automatic to always get 40 or more, unless you keep it under 60mph in the future. On long drives cruise control will help out alot with getting that good mileage.
For example, the total MPG over the last 5 fillups has been 39.7, on an automatic in very mixed driving conditions. It is peppy and reliable. The interior is a marvel of design (OK another oppinion). Once you get used to using an ECHO day-in day-out everthing else seems just, well, not quite there...
-Gunny
http://www.RobertBlake.net
Thanks.
And as for the expensive options, just be prepared to wait a little longer and don't take anything you don't want. I find the Sport Body cladding to be overly expensive and detract from the looks of the car; you don't need power steering on a car this size; you definately don't need the "rear lip spoiler", etc. etc. etc. I clocked in at $12.5k, and that's with A/C, CD stereo, rear window defogger, and the sharp looking alloy wheels (among other things). Be smart and it won't break the bank.
Cheers,
Peter
You need to test drive each car of interest and then make an evaluation of what you really want. I looked at the Subaru Forester, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Echo. The Forester is great for the snow belt however engine needs update to get better MPG and costs >$20k. The Civic is very sporty looking and comes standard with almost everything including good MPG, great crash ratings, however, I experienced transmission noise during a test drive which turned me off. The Corolla has a refined ride, peppy engine, great MPG much like the Civic, however it felt somewhat cramped, especially in the back seat (update on the way!!!). I decided to go with the Echo based on my need for local in-city commuting, better fuel economy, roomy, Good crash ratings and the price was right, <$15k...less then the others I looked at even through the ride is not as refined because of short wheel-base & smaller tires. There are similar cars out there (i.e., Focus), but it has been my experience that Toyota builds a better machine (this is my 5th Toyota) and I like to reward those who do their homework. Toyota has definitely done its homework and it works well and deserves the reward.
***Stay with the most reliable car manufacturer: Toyota and you'll be happy:)***
According to Kelly, in excellent condition a used 2000 Toyota Echo will cost more now than when it was new.
Talk about holding your value.
Mine is working much better now with the proper charge as well! I can actually use it while idling in a parking lot now without having to keep my foot on the gas!
If I take in the instructions for wrapping the AC pipe, do you think the dealership will do the work for me? Mechanically, I am all thumbs.
They give the original sticker price of a 2-door as $11,645 and the retail value of that Echo in excellent condition as $11,700 which is an increase of $55.
The original sticker price of a 4-door is given as $11,945 and the retail value in excellent condition is given as $12,150. This is an increase of $205.
Might cost less to buy a new Echo. The new Echos have power windows available and besides that, you will know how your car has been treated from day one. Personally, I am not in favor of used cars even when they are made by companies known for reliability. It has to do with the fact that I do not know how a used vehicle was treated by the original owner. A complete maintenance log only tells part of the story.
FWIW, a 1999 Hyundai Accent GS hatchback which stickered for $12,129 has a retail value of $7350 in excellent condition.
We had no where near the total snow fall you had, but there were days where there were several inches on the roadway. I have Goodyear Integrity tires and felt the car did really well. I am getting Blizzaks this winter though.
Happy motoring in whatever you choose to replace your wife's Accent.
I just went to their website and for my zip code at least, their prices are higher than MSRP.
Guess this shows that there is strong demand for the Echo.
It has not yet reached 90 degrees where I live. It will be interesting to see what happens when the real heat arrives.
Please let us know what results you have.
Echo now has nearly 3,000 miles and is providing excellent service.
Thanks,
Jack
Anyway, when I took car to dealer to install the CD player I had them check the A/C as it wasn't working well at idle. They said there was a leak in the compressor and they ordered me a new one under warranty. Maybe some of you have the same problem.
1. Has two-stage muffler (like Lexus ES300) to reduce noise and improve high rpm engine performance.
2. Scroll-type compressor (less moving parts) used in air conditioner to minimize noise (new US technology invented by Copeland Industries USA Ohio).
3. Plastic engine cover to reduce noise and increase recyclability.
4. Recycled material is used to make the floor silencer panels.
5. Vertically installed oil filter and chain-drive to the camshafts.
6. Highly recyclable Super Olefin Polymer has been used for the front and rear bumpers, interior, door trims, and upper and lower instrument panel.
7. The 1.5 litre Echo is a LEV (low-emission vehicle)
8. VVT-i (Variable valve Timing-intelligent) is the next generation technology in Toyota engines.
9. Echo's body shell and underbody use high-strength steel.
10. Drag coefficient is 0.29...a flat under-floor shape and slightly raised tail, to smooth airflow under the car.
11. The front seats were designed to create the optimum angle of hip and knee joints for long periods on the road...reducing fatigue.
12. 82% of first time buyers in the segment came from the used vehicle market.
13. The number of parts in the door trim has been reduced from 50 to 25.
14. "The result has been not to build a cheap car but to build a vehicle which offiers strong value for money," quote from Toyota senior executive VP John Conomos.
*incompetent A/C
*crosswind susceptibility
*no cruise control
*no power windows
*short seat tracks
*no tachometer.
*I installed an armrest (JC Whitney)
*got A/C problem corrected
*"learned to drive" a subcompact car (since they all blow around in the wind)
*found the seat all the way back is just about right (5'10" tall)
*the other three gripes still bug me from time to time, considering I spend 6 - 8 hours a day in my Echo.
Now I have two little holes in my hood instead....
*my a/c works fine...it's the tall greehouse and dark color that strains my a/c(electric green)
*I don't feel comfortable driving 80+mph with only one hand on the wheel and have a 5spd so armrest is not something I need.
*OEM tires suck...they are Bridgestone Potenza's
*after 3 consecutive applications of 2001 Protectant, the cladding no longer shows wear/fading that it did using Armor All.
That's about it for me!
**near 10k and 36mpg average is consistent.
My gripe #1 is I hate not being able to put airflow on the windshield without the AC running. I can decide when to turn the AC on all by myself. Gripe #2 is the paint seems to chip easily - maybe that is just the new water based paints that everyone uses? I don't know about paint.
The ECHO is peppy, comfortable, economical, cool, and of course reliable.
Here is a 5-tank sliding window MPG chart for our blue ECHO. This smooths out the data pretty well, and shows the drop in MPG in the winter. This is 10 months of data so far. This is MPG on top vs. tank fillup number on left
*friends expect me to take them in MY car now that they know I can take 4 people with me!!!
So I, like those in the stats quoted above, bought a new car for the first time in my life, and made it the Echo.
I haven't even broken 1,000 miles yet. Have to get out there and do some more distance driving!
Our Corolla drops in the winter (it is pre-VVT by more than a decade!) but it does not show lower MPG at interstate speeds (>65), as the ECHO does.
So far, it looks like this summer will be even better MPG than last summer, with realistic averages over 40MPG, in mixed driving on an automatic. These ECHOs are great little cars...
2. Most cars get worse mpg in the winter- drag, warm-up time, snow/slush as noted.
3. All cars have more drag at >65 mph and most get the best freeway mpg at 55-60 mph. I believe the drag @70 mph is 4 times what it is @ 50mph.
4. Hiway rating EPA for the 5 speed is 41. I usually get 45-47 but then I am going 60-65 mph.
As far as drag...the Echo has one of the lowest figures in the industry and let's not confuse drag with side-wind sensitivity. Those are not related issues. Tall profile does not equal high drag.
As far as air density...it should help mpg not hurt it as there should be more complete burn of gasoline in the cylinders. That's what turbo's and supercharger's do-increase oxygen in the fuel mixture.
As far as the Echo being only a 'city' car...bull!
It is very comfortable cruising at 80mph-quiet engine and no wind noise. My old ZX-2 made a lot of wind/engine noise at that speed. It too had a 5-spd. The fact that I can use the wipers and washer at 80mph without the blades skipping is testimony to the aerodynamics of the Echo. The ZX-2's wipers were useless at that speed!