Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

dtownfb

<<My dealer wants $380 + tax. Sounds reasonable?>>

It all depends on what is being done ot the car. I hope you didn't just ask them :how much for the 30,000 mile maintenance?" Many dealerships add items to the schedule maintenance that is not necessary. follow the manual as to what is needed. List them and ask the service manager how much is it to do these items? This way you get done exactly what needs to be done.

Also, what type of "trouble" did your friend have with his Civic at 5 years? About the 5 year mark is when you have to start replacing items such as battery, alternator, timing belt, etc. Most of these items are not covered by any warranty as they are wear and tear items. If you do get a warranty, check how the warranty work is paid for; make sure where you get the car serviced will except it; and check what exactly is covered by the warranty. You should have to pay more then $800 for the warranty. Any more, it's a waste of money.

sobers

30K should nto cost more than $150. (This is what my dealer charges for Accords/Civics)

About new Corolla: It has a solid rear beam(NON independant) suspension, the same old classic 'Toyota' numb/overboosted steering (from the reviews) VERY ackward styling on 'S' Trim. The styling is a bit odd with the increased height & Toyota is expecting to sale 220,000 a year. I guess Civic taregt is 340+ with SI joining soon.

cwliang

I read somewhere on Edmunds someone's comment about revving higher using significantly more gas... I wonder how much that affects fuel economy, though for the last tank I was heavy on the throttle for takeoffs (usually hit 4k rpm). I'm trying to drive lightly on a tank to see how much better I can get (no more than 3k on a takeoff, 70mph on the highway).

By the way, does anyone know at what point the VTEC for the EX switches cams? There was a rumor at 2k1civic.com that the VTEC in the 01/02s was a 3-stage VTEC, but I think it's just a 2-stage like the previous generation's...

re: Corolla -- has anyone been able to configure the LE to get sunroof, side airbags and ABS all at once (a la the Civic EX)? If they can get all of that into a car with an MSRP around $17k, they'll probably be able to steal a good amount of sales from the Civic EX, no matter how it looks.

dtownfb

i wouldn't count on the Corolla taking too many sales from the Civic. REviews have been lukewarm. It appears Toyota will introduce another car to target younger buyers instead of the Corolla. So i believe the Civic is safe. Of course there is the Focus and Elantra to worry about.

seminole_kev

but I don't think Hyundai has the production capacity yet to come close to the civic in numbers even if the demand was there. So I don't think Honda has to worry just yet about being passed by Hyundai. Just have to watch out for the gradual errosion of sales much like happen to the domestics in the 80's.

claywaterfill

I believe the Civic will be okay, but Corolla will make a huge dent in the sales. I'm not bashing Civic here, I'm just giving my opinion. Remember you are Civic owners and enthusiasts--you will always think Civic will prevail. If you go around the other boards, new Civics are viewed as "boring appliances." These folks will jump at the new design. Of course, a nice chink of Corolla sales are fleet sales, so the Civic outsells Corolla by a wide margin to the private buyer. The MSRP of a new Corolla LE with manual transmission is about $15,100 with destination, so I would think with ABS and sunroof, it will still be below the EX in price--and that will hurt. I agree with Kev that Hyundai does not have the ability to sell as many Elantras as Honda can sell Civics. Maybe when they build a US facility, though...

claywaterfill

Just read the Corolla thread. Apparently, demand is going to be high for the '03. There were a couple of posters saying they have always bought Hondas, but will buy a 2003 Corolla because they are not happy with the current Civic. They were saying, though, that capacity is expected to be around 250,000 units a year--so Civic should still be king--in terms of volume. We'll find out soon!

seminole_kev

how much of that production is earmarked for the U.S. though? Even at max capacity, I'd bet a chunk of that would go to Canada and probably Mexico on south.

Will be interesting to see if the Corolla will challange the Focus and Golf as the worlds best selling car.

rooster51

I am an owner of a 1998 honda civic dx hatchback that runs well; it now has almost 60k miles. I am thinking of buying a 2002 civic ex. any comments?

sobers

Sell it to private buyer & get the new civic ex at invoice + 200 + 180 For Floor mats & Gaurds !! (I just find stupid to pay for these items after spending 16K on the damn car!!)

jvkalra

Since you have a hatchback, have you considered getting a Toyota Matrix, supposed to be out in a week or so?

lfan

Here are some responses to previous posts about comparisons between the Civic to the Corolla:

Corolla Production: The 2000 and 2001 Corolla sold about 240,000 units each year. Because of the Matrix/Vibe sharing assembly line time with Corolla at Fremont and Cambridge plants, it may be hard for Toyota to increase Corolla production beyond 250,000 units unless they increase capacity somehow and somewhere.

cwliang: MSRP for Civic EX with side AB - $17700
MSRP for comparably equipped Corolla LE with side AB: $16855. Of course the Corolla is currently going for much closer to MSRP as cars trickle into dealers.

dtownfb & sobers: Please list the "lukewarm" reviews on the 2003 Corolla. Thecarconnections.com and Car and Driver's preview are the only ones I've seem. Consumer Guide at the news-stand is the other review though it was obvious they drove a preproduction model.

BTW I am still a Civic ('89 with 217000 miles) owner until my Corolla S 5 spd comes in within a week or so.

sobers

including the fleet sales (around 10-12% of Camry & Corolla sales are rental/fleet) Also Solid beam rear suspension is not going to help the guys complaining about Civic's suspention!! :-)

(Toyota also has a funny thing about tires, I guess all the cars at the same trim level do not have the same tires ? I have seen same model year & trim Camrys with Michellins & Dunlops ??)

Basically Toyota is not tryong to attract younger buyers with the Corolla....They are going to bait on the new Matrix & the new devision for that. (Don't know hows that going to work)

Honda has developed more Brand Loyalty in USA than anywhere on the World !! Not even in Japan can surpass this Brand Equity!

I can't wait for the Model-X & Pilot SUV to arrive. Arrival of Pilot & the new 2002 CR-V might put more used CR-Vs in the market & make them more affordable. Right now, used CR-V cost more than the Diamonds!!

sobers

in Motortrend & I guess CarnDriver. These are "First Drive" reviews & not the road tests. You need to be a bit clever to read such reviews where they print the advertizing text from Toyota (like Lexus like build etc) & these reviews do NOT mention Solid Beam NON Independant rear suspension!! Actual road tests would be more interesting. Given how current car performs I guess the same platform is not going to help them anyway! & they were not at all trying to make it sporty or so....!! EVen new Camry with a bit of sport orientation is as floaty as the prev model So corolla with no intention to inmprove handling is going to perform as 'good' as the prev model.

Yes, price is an issue but it is offset with the greater resale with the Civic. Corollas depreciate more than Civic in the first 3 years due to a LOT of fleet sales. (10-12%)

Thats the reason Celica has enjoyed a VERY strong resale (no fleet sales) even though it had NO SPORT factor to it in the pre 2000 models !! FLeet/Rental sales just KILL the resale in first few years !!

diploid

http://edmunds.yellowbrix.com/pages/edmunds/Story.nsp?story_id=27320076&ID=edmunds&scategory=Auto&amp;

Note that these are hatchback comparisons, but I think most of the criticisms can also be applied to the sedan versions (don't know if the Peugeot comes in sedan form).

45auto

Just wondering, can anyone tell me the particulars/pros and cons of an extended warranty. Was also wondering what is covered and what the price is of 100,000 mile warranty on the 2002 civic ex sedan. Thank you for any assistance

futurecivic

I got this wonderful deal from open road for the honda civic..but insurance is giving me problems. This is my first car, so the dealers dont give temp insurance so i can get it home, and the insurance guys wont give me insurance unless i buy the car and show them the paper work! They also say it will take 2 weeks after that for me to get insurance. The dealer is ready to keep the car for me until then..but i am not comfortable with that! Has anyone faced a similar problem? I just dont know what to do...

sobers

Go to the agent. take the appropriate insurance. He will ask you from which date you want to start the insurance. Say today. He will give you a temp proof of insurance (a printout signed by him & you maybe) & the actual peperwork wil be mailed to you within two weeks. SO IN SHORT YOU CAN PICK THTA CAR UP TODAY !!!

Am I missing something in this story ? :-))

futurecivic

) I wish it was that easy. The agent says she cannot give me the insurance until the company approves it! They have changed all the rules! They dont give temp proof anymore! and she says she doesnt know when the comp will approve my application.. "cud take 2 weeks!" is all she said. I asked her did she expect me to keep the car with the dealers without insurance...and she says i am not the only one.. there are many people doing it!!!

claywaterfill

What kind of company is it? What city are you in? I have seen plenty of ads on TV for some companies that sign you up over the phone. I think Geico and Progressive will sign you up over the internet. Check around some more.

alpha01

According to CarsDirect.com,
A Civic EX, Options: auto, Side Airbags stickers at $18,500 and sells for $16,944.

A Corolla LE, Options: Auto, ABS, Side Airbags, Cruise Control, All Weather Guard Pkg, Pwr. Moonroof, 6 speaker CD/Cass/AM-FM and 5pc Floor Mats/Trunk Mats, and 15 inch Alloy Wheels has an MSRP of $18,356 and sells for $17,266.

So for the $300 extra bucks, you're getting a couple more speakers, the All Weather Guard pkg, and the much better looking Alloy Wheels. Yea, they are extras, but to me, the Corolla looks like a better deal. Plus, Toyota's warranty is better.

I think Honda should have done more than remove the hump from the rear floor if they planned to keep the Civic at the same level of competitiveness as former generations. IMO, the Focus and Protege are better cars, just not reliable enough. As such, I think this upgraded Corolla should have Honda worried... No doubt, if historic traits continue, the Civic is most likely the more agile and better handling of the two, but the new Corolla's interior is very classy, with a more up market look. And the exterior.. while tall, isnt as boring and evolutionary as the Civic, which looks to me too much like the 1994 version I owned. Finally, the Corolla's engine has been retuned to provide better torque characteristics, which should make a difference in everyday driving (although I have not driven one yet). The Civic EX's VTEC is fun, but sometimes its a pain to have to rev to get good grunt.
Just my .02, considering this has been a hot topic around here lately.
~Alpha

futurecivic

Ooops! I never mentioned that I live in New Jersey did I ? ]

isellhondas

I got a laugh out of your post.

You think it's just fine to pay a measly 200.00 over invoice for a Civic yet you think the mats and mud guards still ought to be thrown in for that price?

What am I missing?

carguy62

Civic vs. Corolla. There is a an archived discussion but as far as I can tell no active one. A better place to discuss these issues, IMO.

sobers

I don't mean to get every civic at 200 over invoice anyway but they can adjust 'fair' price of mats & gaurds in the invoice or should FIX the price across the nation.

I have seen dealers charging $150 for mats (includes 50 for installation???) & more than that for the gaurds!! What about that ? Can't they just add that in the invoice ?

Persoanlly I would pay $100 MORE for better dealership & ownership experience. (which I did, I paid $200 more as I like the 'no-games' approach of our dealer.

Isell, It is just supply & demand. They are charging MSRp + for the Odysseys!! There are n number of Civics seating on the lot!

sobers

Please don't start the topic.....untill Toyota gets a bit more serious about Corolla...NOT just the 'bulletproof relibility' :-))

lfan

The dealer to customer game has been the same all these years. With a possible exception to buying from Saturn or a no haggle dealer, buying a vehicle is not a retail store experience.

The buyers will be scoped out and the sales person determines how informed the customer is going to be and how much $ they can get above fair market price. All of us Edmunds educated car buyers will definitely fall under the informed category, A.K.A. "cheap skates." So if anyone wants to haggle the price of a Civic to $200 over invoice and still want car mats thrown in for free; go for it!

dtownfb

The review I read was in Motor Trend as well as an online review (The Car Connection). the Car Connection liked the ride of the Corolla but was not happy with the engine. Very little if any improvement from previous generations. Also the Civic was 5th in car sales for 2001 (www.honda200.com), most for any compact car for the 5th year in a row. So much for everyone complaining and not liking the new Civic.

The Corolla is not going take many sales from the Civic. Considering none of us has actually driven a 2003, we can only base our opinions on what is written. Based on what i've read, the Civic doesn't have to worry about the Corolla. The Vibe/Matrix could be another story. The competition for the Civic is the Focus and Elantra. Focus because it's the only car in the class that can match the Civic for interior space AND offer a better ride and handling but it's reliability (or perceived reliability) keeps it from selling more. The Elantra is about equal to the Civic in ride and handling but I found I had more room in the Civic and let's not talk about reliability. No other car in the class can beat the Civic on all four fronts (interior, ride, handling and reliability). Having test driven the Elantra and Civic back to back, the only reason I can see buying the Elantra is the price and the warranty. Not a bad car at all but the Civic was better.

isellhondas

By all means...just don't get upset when your offer isn't accepted!

richk4

I know this is a Civic forum, but as an owner of a 02 Cr-v I understand the front wheel well openings in the two vehicles are similar. Have any new Civic owners had problems like road salt or snow or even dirt being let in the engine compartment by these openings? I realize the entire bottom of the engine is open but is not subjected to what the tires throw up in the wheel wells. Any experience or opinions would be appreciated.

cwliang

richk4, I haven't really paid specific attention to the areas by the wheel well but I've been under the hood of the Civic poking around and it's pretty clean for me. This after the past month in Baltimore, which has seen some snow, lots of salt, rain, along with its normal assortment of potholes. Although I was reading in another forum of one Canadian owner having problems with his car, something about water splashing up onto some wires, freezing them, and he had to dry them for an hour with a hairdryer (!).

There was an annoying rattle coming out of the rear deck that I recently fixed. Apparently, the plastic covering of the rear deck light flexes according to the temperature, and in that position it is affected by sunlight! So when I would start driving after being parked at night in a dark garage, I would hear a periodic clicking (not associated with movement) from the rear deck, especially if I was driving on a sunny day. You can fix this by going into the trunk, and using some foam to plug some of the openings where the metal meets the plastic. Solved that problem, but now I have buzzing from the glovebox and an intermittent clicking from the dashboard...

tlindeman

I couldn't resist taking a new Corolla 5 spd. for a test drive to compare it to my 2001 Civic LX sedan (also with 5 spd.). Although I've been a little disappointed with a couple of small quality issues with my Civic and not thrilled with the bouncy rear end, I was unimpressed with the way the Corolla drove. Although very well built and executed, the new Corolla still has the numb, vague steering of it's predecessors (especially on-center...hard to keep it in a straight line without small corrections). The Honda has a much better feel for the road. Another thing is the seating position...although the model I tested was a CE which didn't have the seat height adjustment, it was impossible to get enough leg room without a long reach to the steering wheel...my legs felt cramped in the footwell or I was driving with arms nearly straight out with the seat pushed back). The Honda has much better seat-to-steering wheel proportions although I did like the high pedestal seating in the Corolla. As far as the shifter goes, there's no comparison. The Corolla is much notchier and requires more effort than my Civic, especially noticeable is downshifting from 5th to 4th...I got a couple of reverse grinds out of the Corolla which never happens in the Civic...Honda still makes the smoothest and refined manuals and that's a big plus for city driving. The Corolla gets the nod for quietness and ride and the interior seems to have better quality materials than the Civic but for sheer fun and easy-to-drive comparisons, I'll keep my Honda thank you.

cwliang

tlindeman, I'm replying to both your message in the Corolla forum and your last one here...

I have to agree that the Corolla's ('01) steering really turned me off to the car. I only wish that Toyota would improve the feel of its steering because they make the rest of the car so solidly. I've driven the Focus, Civic, Corolla, and a 318i, and of those I'd rank the Ford, Honda, and BMW pretty close (not necessarily in that order; there was a lot of time in between each car and so I can't directly compare them). What'd I'd really like is steering that's as accurate as the Civic (my current car), maybe a little more so on dead-center, with a little more heft like the Focus and the BMW have. A little less body lean in the corners would be nice too I think. The Civic definitely is willing and capable to take the twisties, but I do feel a bit less confident in the car than I did in the Focus or the BMW (or the Accord, for that matter). I didn't even consider purchasing a Focus because of Ford's current problems...

sobers

I was surprised delightfully! The car has really a MUCH improved steering feel than the 2001 Civic. Rear end did counce a bit but it handled like a dream in the twisties! 2000 Civic had slalom of 64, 2001 tested out(Motortrend) 62.5 I think with 2002 Changes it might match 2000 Civic numbers.

alpha01

What changes did Honda make to the 2002 Civic steering as compared to the 2001 model? When I test drove the 2001, I was reasonably impressed with the steering, and suspension for that matter, I didnt really see the big deal about how everyone was disappointed that Honda "cheapened" the rear suspension.
~alpha

sobers

for better on center feel for 2002.

gasguzz

that shows up in the numbers. The 01 steering is softer/faster than the 00. The 01 and 02 have the same steering.

pat

A major newspaper is looking to interview folks who learned how to drive stick in their adulthood, and either fell in love or hated it. Also welcome is any input on why people love to drive stick, and any unusual anecdotes about how you learned etc.

Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.

Thanks as always,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com

jbollt

Hi all! I have a 2001 CIVIC EX Sedan. I recently found out that the EX coupe has tweeters located in the sail panel on the front doors inside from the mirrors. Does anyone know if they will fit the Sedan, and if so, will they be a simple "plug-in" to the speakers located lower in the doors? Maybe I should post this elsewhere? If so ..someone please advise. Thanks!

Bloke

Don't know if anyone else has this. I have 2001 ex sedan, about 14k miles. It has developed an annoying rattle in the passeger side door. I think it's the speaker that has come loose. I am heading to the dealer in a couple of weeks to have that and a few other rattles checked into. Just seeing if any other civics out there are rattling away.

ong2000

Hi, I want to buy a used Civic year 2000 or 2001, just wonder if any of you know which website is best for it? Thanks.
ong2000@yahoo.com

cwliang

ong2000, you might want to check the local listings of the newspapers around you. Some Honda dealers might be able to sell you a Certified Used car, but you'll have to pay a premium for it...

Bloke - yeah, I've had my '02 EX sedan for 2 months and I've spent most of the time fixing rattles Not really, but there certainly were more than I expected in a new car. The easiest to fix are inside the A-pillars and in the rear deck. There's also some rattling coming from my dashboard (I think from the plastic underneath the speedo/tach area), and a buzzing from the glovebox. But I'm getting used to it...

nimmo9

Bloke-We had a similar rattle from the passenger door that would go away if the window was partially down. Dealer diagnosed a speaker wire harness corrugated cover vibrating against the door frame. They put foam tape on it and it stopped for a while, but now it's back. Did it from the very start and now have 7k miles on it. If I upgraded my speakers I could play the radio louder and drown it out.

bigkahunafl

I have a rattle around the A pillar on the passenger side that drives me crazy. Anyone else have that and, if so, were you able to get it corrected?

bordsource

I've had about 4 of them. I had them all silenced at various times. I'm now at 20,000 miles, and no new rattles or buzzes have developed since the last one was silenced at 15,000 miles. Switching from city to highway driving probably had a positive effect on my rattle outlook.

cwliang

bigkahunafl, the A-pillar rattles are pretty common, and you can fix them yourself. If you look at your car, there is a slight space between the windshield and the plastic A-pillar cover. You might be able to reproduce some similar sounding creaks if you push on the plastic cover. Anyway, you just need to cut a couple of nice sized pieces of foam -- I used packing foam, but other people have gone to Home Depot and bought some tube foam -- and use something slim to shove the foam into the space. If you cut pieces that are 1 cm by 1 cm by 5-7 cm, you should be able to hide the entire piece of foam underneath the plastic A-pillar cover. I did that on both A-pillars and found that it dramatically reduced the number of rattles in my car. Or, you can take it to the dealer and have them do it, I think a lot of them are aware of the A-pillar rattles...

bigkahunafl

Thanks cwliang for the suggestions!

patrickmilw

I'm planning to move from a 96 Accord EX (too big) to a 2002 Civic EX. The only problem I have is that the Civic sound system is a stinker. The salesman suggested after-market. Has anyone done this who can share advice? I don't need a mega blasting system but I even the Protege LX and Jetta Monsoon systems are better. I suspect I just need upgraded speakers but don't know. The car only has 4 speakers so I'm also not certain if I could do anything more than replace them. I plan to go to a place that specializes in after-market sound systems but I thought I would ask here for advice and any info on what this might cost. And of course any warnings.

Thanks!

scottguo

Bot this lemon on 12/8, 1 week ago the front power window stopped working, sent to dealership, they ordered a new motor and 3 days later they "fixed" it. Today it's broken again. I am so pissed, for god's sake, it's only been 2 month!!!

readytobuy8

Corolla versus the civic, I bought my wife a 2001 Civic in August for her graduation present from College ( Electrical Engineer UTD ) She loved it, I just bought a 03 Corolla last Tuesday, now she wants a corolla, I used to like to drive her civic since I was driving a 91 jetta, but my early opinion the corolla will end up beating out the civic within 6 months