Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
I'm curious - does anyone know if there have been any UA incidents involving manual transmission cars?
With 90% - 95% of all automotive sales being automatic transmissions these days, dollars ta Winchell's glazed donuts these UA incidents involve pert-near all automatics.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Maybe "engine run-away", but not UA.
NHTSA Finds No Evidence of Electronic Glitches in 58 Toyota Crashes (Straightline)
Then there are the easily hacked voting machines.
The cause was Toyota was unlucky to have people with dyslexic feet?
And of course there is this hype piece because no automotive company would release unsecured and unreviewed software that could cause major system problems very easily:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/08/researchers-show-how-to-hack-tire-pr- essure-monitoring-system.html
I'm quite sure Toyota's ECMs are of similar quality.
I looked down once I stopped and noticed that my left hand landed on the cruise control stalk instead of the adjacent turn signal. Thinking that I was signaling for a right turn, I instead engaged cruise.
I think those words speak for themselves. While it may have been human error, it was a design decision - the placement of the stalks - that made such an error more likely to happen.
I haven't seen one in person either. I was going by the picture, as to the placement of the stalks.
If Toyota vehicles used this arrangement, no doubt there would be more "press" about it, simply due to the much larger # of cars Toyotas on the road.
Toyota Skeptical of Data From Its Own Black Boxes (AutoObserver)
But, in general, you don't put controls for two or more disparate functions right next to each other and of the same shape and method of actuation.
It would be like having the launch and self destruct buttons for a launch vehicle being toggle switches of the same size and shape right next to each other on the control panel in the launch control room. "...Ooops, sorry, I thought I hit the launch button. Me bad!"
The cruise control is actuated by moving the stalk forward and backward, not up and down. So even if you bump the cruise stalk up or down when mistaking it for a turn signal, nothing should really happen. If you're moving it forward and backward when flailing for a signal, I think there are some user issues going on, too. And, I don't know if cruise should engage at low in-city crawling speeds anyway, I have always thought there was a minimum speed for cruise control engagement. I am going to try to replicate this in my own car today.
From the article that started this discussion:
I'd been behind the wheel of a 2011 Mercedes-Benz R350 BlueTEC for less than 10 minutes when it happened: The vehicle took off on its own as I prepared to make a right turn. And on a downtown street crowded with people, no less. I instinctively stabbed the brakes but still felt like an idiot.
I looked down once I stopped and noticed that my left hand landed on the cruise control stalk instead of the adjacent turn signal. Thinking that I was signaling for a right turn, I instead engaged cruise.
This isn't a new issue, since Mercedes has used this steering-wheel stalk setup for years. It's also not the first time I've encountered it, and presumably owners get used to it after a while. But with all the hysteria over unintended acceleration, I can see how this could cause confusion -- if not an accident.
I can only assume the writer is stating what actually happened to him.
I tried this in my own car. As expected, cruise doesn't engage at all under 30mph. You can play with the stalk any way you want, and no response. This is what gets me...why would someone be going over 30 on a pedestrian-packed downtown street? If this did happen under 30, there's an issue...otherwise, I can't get excited, it sounds like a user error issue involving something else. I'd need to see it replicated on video.
Also, the cruise stalk sits markedly back from the signal stalk. If your hand is up there when turning, you're doing it wrong. This setup has existed for ages, and I don't recall reading about issues with it before. I'd think in something that has existed for so long, in cars that are sold in virtually every part of the world, someone would have complained a long time ago if it was a real hazard. I don't think everything needs to be idiot proofed. There's a potential for error, but IMO not by a driver with a reasonable amount of attention and skill.
Of course, I personally HAVE tested cars (older cars, in the past) with jammed accelerators (mechanical linkages) and repeated the incident---usually a busted return spring, or loose linkage that jammed up.
Downtown crowded street...30+MPH....90 degree turn...
Maybe in my Z4 or something similar.
Maybe he was in downtown Boston.
That's rather the definition of a "stray" electronic problem isn't it?
I wonder if the dealer was able to recreate the screaming engine that the driver was able to coast onto the lot by putting the car into neutral - no foot on the gas pedal.
I suspect the owner got the shop ticket back with the infamous "could not duplicate" written on it. Dealers can't even recognize squeaky brakes or rough shifting ("they all do that") and you want them to repeat a screaming engine running without benefit of pedal application?
PS-I notice my smiley face has not shown up but it may pop up later !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
None of my vehicles have had the stalks and levers in the same places. Volvo does it one way(old models were reversed from GM/Ford!), Mercedes another, Buick another(man I loathed those things, but as a college student, what are you going to do?), and so on.
Failure to understand the complex piece of machinery is no excuse. If you can't understand a modern Mercedes, maybe an old Crown Vic is more your speed.
It would be interesting (and scary?) to set up shop outside the car rental pickup lots and study how many people take the time to adjust their mirrors and figure out the controls before zooming off.
There'd be plenty of time to find and interview the drivers as they leave the airport -they're the ones doing U-Turns as they try to figure out where the main road is. :P
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
But the car company that runs a we don't care what your credit is holiday would rack up. When Obama had the clunker program I thought at first Hey, that's me (1977 Maverick), but then he tacked on qualifications and more qualifications. One of them was the car's age couldn't go back lower than 1984.
hahahahaha That's okay. My life doesn't depend on what they offer, or don't.
I helped them, they don't help me => Normal, all Normal.
It most likely is some single event - see
http://www.oregonsae.org/Meetings/misra_C.pps
If they can't find it at least brake override will help.
Just hope it wasn't a cover up as the Chrysler hatch case according to poster in post no. 1001.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Court documents: Toyota quietly bought back surging vehicles from owners (Austin Statesman)
The plaintiff lawyers are calling these cases "sudden acceleration" while the owners seem to be saying their cars are surging after coming to stops.
More over in larsb, "Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall" #3523, 29 Oct 2010 12:28 pm.
Then why swear the owners to secrecy? More straws for the plaintiff's lawyers to grasp at? Sometimes I think this stuff would blow over faster if companies didn't try to play hide the ball.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
But think a minute about it. Why can't investigators duplicate this SUA problem? I know this happens with cars when you take them to the mechanic and bring up a complaint, but come on, why can't the problem be duplicated? Huh?
Is this Unintended Acceleration tied to Toyota's cruise control systems in their automatic tranny models only, ya thinkin'?
If I get a 2012 Scion FR-S (how Toyota will market the new FT-86 in the U.S.) I am pretty certain I will get a 6-speed manual transmission in it. From what I've read it's automatic trannied Toyota's that are surging out of control in forward motion, not the stick shifter Toyota's. That's if this problem is really a mechanical problem needing fixing by Toyota at all. Right now I remain unconvinced that it is a problem at all.
And I am fine with all the work Toyota has done fixing the gas pedals, floor mats and brake surge cut off, etc. They've gotten down to business and addressed every issue they've found needing addressing, that I'm aware of. I'm just not convinced like I was just a few months ago that this is a Toyota ECU software problem of some sort. Now all the fixes have been done for their affected rigs, including the brake pedal override fix. I would not hesitate to buy a new Toyota at this time, and as of about 3 months ago there was nothing in their stable worthy of my attention. That has all changed, baby.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Also, you can turn off the engine on most cars with a manual transmission without it being in park first. This is true for most automatics, but some of the new key-less systems aren't so happy with trying to shut it off while in drive.
Three ways in which you can overcome the problem in a couple of seconds. It's at best annoying if it does happen.
You can do the same thing with an automatic if the driver has a brain.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The possibility of it being SW was discussed in some detail a number of posts ago.
"Recent news reports have stated that Toyota dealership technicians were able to duplicate customer claims of unintended acceleration," said Toyota late Thursday. "That Toyota repurchased the vehicles in question; and that Toyota failed to properly inform the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the situation. Field technical specialists and engineers were deployed in response to reports of two acceleration events that dealer technicians recently observed. At these dealerships, Toyota FTS and engineers were unable to duplicate the condition and the vehicles were repurchased from the customers for further engineering analysis."
Toyota Denies It Secretly Repurchased Vehicles To Hide Defect (Inside Line)
It is a bit confusing though.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Doesn't everyone realize that in This Media Age any technician who really experienced this and was suppressed, would by this time have a book out and be on coast to coast TV to pitch it? They could cash in so big on this that they'd never have to pick up a wrench for the rest of their lives.
[A]uthorities are continuing to investigate whether the recalls and repairs for a short accelerator pad and a sticky floor mat were also completed.
Croft said investigators' suspect that one of those problems caused the crash."
Police: Faulty Camry likely caused fatal UT crash (Fresno Bee)
It will be interesting to see if (once again), when they start exploring the wreck, they find everything in working order again.
I keep waiting for one of these UI cases to come up with a car that will jam its gas pedal upon request, at least one time, for testers.
Another friends daughter just ran her husbands corvette through their garage doors a couple of weeks ago. She was in the driveway, thought she had it in reverse, hit the gas and went forward through the garage door.
She did not try to blame someone or something else, just admitted she made a mistake. Refreshing.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
They have their pride,you know and those kooks even still commit "Sepeku" over a premium parking space.
They are under systems attack,and they will never accept failure and a non Japanese Man to provide the fix science,"You'll See"