Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

prajapati

Just FYI -

I found VW seats to be uncomfortable in long drives - something you may want to consider because you'll be driving lots of miles. (At the same time, found seats to be very firm and supportive for daily commutes)

outrun

Very true. They lack (for me) thigh support and causes my legs to tingle after about an hour.

Luckily, my commute is usually 30-50 minutes.

-Craig

feilo

Great post, very eloquent and totally right on!

bjbird2

I drove my 02' Passat from Indianapolis to Colorado, and the seats were perfect for me. Great support, comfortable, and I was not tired after driving a 10 hour day.

It was not just the seats that made it so easy to drive such a long time, the Passat ride and handling also helps. When you have fight the steering, and constantly correct, or when the ride is uncomfortable, the trip can be much more tiring. The Passat makes it enjoyable, and the 32 mpg made it even more so.

weaponous

You are definately on to something with this expectation thing. Expecations for Big 3 are much lower than for imports.

I'm curious as to the resale value of passats in the US and need some feedback. In Canada they refuse to depreciate, despite recent history of reliability issues.

The stat. that will surprise most of you is that 50% of Canadians drive imports vs. only 40% of Americans, yet we tolerate vehicle issues more than the US (I lived in NJ for a year so have experienced culture differences between Canadians and Americans). That part I can't understand.

Civics, Jettas, Golfs, Corollas rule the road up here. You'd be suprised to here that most Canadians don't drive SUV's, despite the climate.

When/if the diesel Passat comes out, it will sell like crazy up here. Diesels are very popular. The VW premium thing will be a flop here, as the Tourag has. And I don't see Phaetons replacing 3 series/5 series/A6/Mercedez/Lexus/Acura any time soon once released in Canada.

More observations to come.

markcincinnati

Listen folks, I am a fan, I read the company propaganda (and I do recognize it as such); and I read the automotive press.

Seems the press is "impressed" with the Phaeton.

We've heard of initial issues with the car in Europe.

VW management isn't dumb.

VW does have very deep pockets.

A lot of money has been spent to make this Phaeton and this transition work.

Audi was nearly snuffed out (at least in North America) by our friends at 60 minutes -- they appear to be back with better and more exciting products than ever.

The above ingredients do not guarantee success -- and they do not predict failure. VW has been over the past few years moving the Passat's appearance to such a level that it, to many, looks more expensive than it is. Such things as the RS 32 for $10K less than a similarly platform based TT are getting a lot of attention.

The Touareg ditto.

The Phaeton is a statement -- at least I suspect it will be initially -- the Phaeton from a dealer's point of view will probably neither have the ability to make or break his/her year. But, my guess is that if the Phaeton could lean one way or the other it would lean toward making the dealer more successful if the car "takes off" and will have very little negative effect if the Phaeton (as a model) fades into obscurity.

Initially the risks for the individual dealers seems relatively low. Golfs and Jettas and Passats and other models will still provide the majority of revenue and profit for VW -- the Passat Plus and the Phaeton will be initially "statement" cars -- very important statements, I'll concede. But if the Phaeton fall flat on its bumpers, the public's memory is so short that from that perspective I doubt the impact will be great.

I am rooting for the Phaeton and it would appear to be a "relative" bargain.

Canada or not, VW is moving forward and apparently upward -- when is the first Phaeton due, anyway?

altair4

I'm not surprised by your comments and I think you are correct about how the Canadian market will react to the Phaeton. I've spent a lot of time in Canada over the years and saw a different attitude about imports there than in the States. A lesson for the American reader - the Canadian market saw the first Hyundais in North America (Ponys!)and I remember seeing a lot of Ladas (Russian Fiats - whoa, that's enough to give me heartburn right there) on the roads a few decades back. They were even importing from Poland and Romania (which, as I recall, were truly terrible cars). I guess it goes back even further; English makes appeared to be much more popular in Canada than in the US in the 1960's. And let's not leave out French Canada, where Renault hung on a little longer than the rest of North America. I'd say all of those would be indicators of a more complacent or accepting attitude.

I spent a couple of weekends recently in Southern Ontario. I saw lots of TDI Jettas, but not many Passats. I think the diesel Passat will be a hit there, too. And, why not? Premium gasoline was $2.48(USD) for a US gallon, and it was rated at 91 AKI.

profvh

In response to both weaponous and markcincinatti,
I would substantially agree. For example, Powers
and other surveys tend to give fairly high ratings
to cars that I consider to be inferior from an
engineering point of view: Buick Lesabres, etc.
I read somewhere that the older buyers that buy
Lesabres do not have high expectations for their
cars. They have lived through the awful 1980s
where GM turned out some real junk. The current
Lesabres and Oldsmobiles are such a reliability
improvement from these buyers earlier experiences
that they think they are now in heaven carwise.
I remember my mother-in-laws 1980 Olds Cutlass.
When driving it over a railroad track the whole
dashboard would shake and move up and down! She
would think a 2003 Olds was really great considering what she had owned.

In terms of German cars, I currently own a VW
Passat and a MB C280 Sport. I have had good
experiences with these cars and they have been
quite reliable. Yet, I find I want perfection
somehow. Maybe it has something to do with the
image that Germans are disciplined, methodical
and demanding. If one of my cars has a big
problem I will be really angry. If I had a
2002 Park Avenue I would be more apt to consider
a big problem to be typical of GM and not expect
much.

vocus

I totally agree with the fact that people who buy German cars expect more. I did expect more from my Jetta than I do from my current car.

When I had rattles in my Jetta, they drove me totally nuts! I thought of it as paying $25,000 for a brand new car that rattled, and it made me really mad. Now I have a PT Cruiser (my Jetta was totalled through no act of my own), and it has a little rattle here and there in the dash when I hit a big bump. Big deal. I don't care, mostly because the car doesn't cost me as much to drive and maintain as the VW did. And it's not as prestigous.

On the contrary, I was always worried about how the VW looked, washing it all the time, even parking further away from cars at the mall so they wouldn't ding it. With the PT, I have had it for almost 3 months and 7300 miles and have only washed it once. I just don't seem to care as much for some reason.

weaponous

Drivers that don't care emotionally about a car drive Hyundai's, and that's their market.

Passionate drivers will pick vehicles like the Passat.

The ones that are in the middle and are caught between patriotic emotion and zero percent financing/affordability will buy Big 3 cars.

Re: Mark above, the PT Cruiser is a hell of a unique vehicle, one of the hits in a hit and miss game for DCX. Perhaps its because the PT has been around for a bit, the emotion has warn off and everyone is used to seeing them.

The difference between passion and emotion is that the passion seems to last, that's how I would describe my love for the Passat. It's a car you could drive for 10 years and still be in style, similar to a classic Volvo. Rarely do you see a domestic with that sort of appeal.

PS You'll be interested to know that the minivan/Pacifica plant in Windsor Ontario is sitting idle for a few weeks. Apparently demand is horrific. Another sign of imports crushing domestics (In August, Honda Canada sold more civics than Chrysler Canada did cars!!!)

Recommend that everyone read "The End of Detroit", a new book out that captures much of our discussions/expectations.

outrun

You paid $25 for a Jetta? Gosh. I paid less for my Passat with Leather, Luxury, Monsoon.

Did it come with a live Mexican band playing in the back seat?

-Craig

fish8

LOL!!

In terms of expecting less for a domestic brand. Have you seen the body panel gaps on the new Saturn Ions? I know the plastic panels are the supposed reason, but.....

altair4

Well, it does make aligning the doors easier, since you don't actually have to open the door to reach in and grab the hinge. ;->

koolkuts99

Is anyone experiencing the squeaky noise ( I believe from the wheels) when the wheels are rolling. It's so hard to detect where the noise comes from and it comes and goes. I had my 2002 v6 passat checked out by VW dealer and they found nothing.

vocus

No, the sticker price was almost $25k. It was a 1.8t with every single option you could get at that time. I paid $500 over invoice, which was $23,500, but in practicality it was still a $25K car.

LOL about the band, that was funny!

vocus

I actually have a couple friends who work for Chrysler, and they said Pacificas have been selling below invoice since they came on the market. I always thought they were nice, but I guess there's just no demand for big SUVs. And we know no one wants the minivans or Jeeps, since the rebates on them range from $2000-$5500.

fish8

I would characterize this car as a minivan/station wagon more than a SUV. I see a couple on the roads, but with a HP rating of 215 (I think)the car is underpowered. Though the interior looks like a Mercedes. I am not so sure that is a positive for Mercedes.

weaponous

LOL

That Mexican band crack was a classic!! I've completely lost my concentration here...

In terms of expectations, too bad for the Pacifica, its been buried before it ever had a chance to rise..

The Ion is apparently not doing well, Saturn's brand has been tarnished due to GM abondoning it and starving it of redesign money. Too bad, my wife had an SL2 and the car wasn't bad, but the service was unbelievable!!!

mliong

The biggest complaint I heard about the Pacifica was that it was way too expensive: $30+K. Yet, you really don't hear anyone complaining when they buy a Touareg for $35+K, right?

I think the problem is more aligned with perception, rather than the actual quality of the car.

Most of the people I know equate American cars with Poor Quality, Poor Reliability, Poor Performance. As such, it's really hard to justify spending over $25K for an American car, let alone $30+K for a Chrysler name-plate which is percieved to be an inferior nameplate in quality and reliability. Whether this perception of the Pacifica is true, or not, I cannot say, but the perception is there.

The Pacifica was also billed as an "SUV" - but it really looks like a station wagon to many people and the press.

So, in IMHO, poor quality and reliability perceptions + station wagon styling + high price = low demand.

vocus

Alot of Chrysler cars are plagued with a bag rap for reliability. Actually, I checked the predicted reliabilty of the PT before I bought one, and it's on the level with Honda Civic according to the April auto issue of Consumer Reports. I was really surprised.

People spend $25k for Jettas that have a bad rap for reliability though, so it does happen.

Also, I saw a write-up of the new Touraeg in Consumer Guide auto at the bookstore. It said that VW's customer service and recent reliability problems might be the thing to hold back a good SUV.

mliong

I guess the two cars are exceptions to the rules. The PT being better than what Chrysler normally puts out, and the Civic being less reliable than the Honda "Norm".

I agree with you on how the Touareg can be held back by poor customer service and reliability problems plaguing VW as a whole. I know that if I could ever afford/justify getting a Touareg, I'd be waiting at least four years till they iron out all the bugs - it took them that long to get the Passat as "Average" a relaibility it has today.

Are there any reliability reports on the Touareg?

weaponous

which will hopefully allow me to seek out a decent used 2002 Passat at a reasonable price. Can you say slooooooowwwww in terms of depreciation on this car any slower? In Canada and perhaps the US as well, Passat had the slowest rate of depreciation out of any vehicle in the country.

My theory is that all the TDI freaks will be switching over from gas passats, softening up the used market a bit to my pricing favour. I predict the TDI Passat will be impossible to buy up here as popularity turns ridiculous.

On a side note about the Pacifica, I don't even see it being advertized anymore (sorry my fellow Americans, z is in place of s on this side of the border, why we spell colour vs your color is beyond my comprehension).

Pacifica reminds me of pregnant PT Cruiser.

tarik

...is flopping badly in Germany, and I cannot see it suceed anywhere in NA, either.

Even though the technical basis and engineering effort probably thrust that car right up into the spheres of class leaders, image is not to be underestimated. As long as the subtle and serious appearance of the Phaeton is disrupted by sqare yards of VW badges and the signature sledge hammer shifter, only total reverse-snobbers could find interest. Done ranting about that...

As to the Passat, early (retouched) pix of its allegedly upscale-headed successor have already been shown in Auto, Motor und Sport, a major German car magazine, last week.

Kinda interesting to see how future styling is influenced by Peter Schreyer, VW's new design-Meister after Warkuss' departure. On top of this car, VW also intends to position the Golf above the competition and to re-introduce the GTI, as it has only been a shadow of old times lately. Wolfsburg will also acquire a rear-wheel drive platform for a future sedan fitting between Passat and Phaeton in return for know-how transfer to Maserati regarding AWD and space-frame technology for their new and soon-to-be-unveiled luxury SUV named "Kubang".

As in ka-bang.

Wonder about its North American name, as Kubang reminds me entirely too much of SpeedTV's David Hobbs' unique ka-blamo, whenever an F1 engine disitegrates at 19,100 rpm...

vocus

Being a former VW owner, I can't see how VW will sell a $35k+ SUV and be able to service those customers at the level they expect to be treated at. I found their customer service very lacking, and I only had a Jetta in the $20s.

mliong

Yeah, I agree with you there on the general level of customer service. I've been wondering myself how they plan to cater to such a wide range of customers (from the $20K Jetta owners to the $60-$80K Touareg/Phaeton owners).

I guess it's been rehashed quite a bit on these threads: Do they segregate the affluent ones at the risk of alienating their mainstream customers, or do they treat them all the same? And if so, at what level?

With regards to the Phaeton selling poorly in Germany, could it be related to the recession (or "poor econimic condition" for the politically correct folks out there) hitting Europe and America at this time? Maybe the timing is off for the Phaeton launch?

wagoneer2

Just replaced a pair of wiper blades on my 2003 Passat Wagon (not the rear, just the front blades). I bought the rubber refills from Drew parts. They were about $8 a piece. The wipers are easy to take off the arms, just turn them until the groove is lined up, then pull them to the right and they should pop off. To get the plastic caps off the ends of the wipers, insert a slot screwdriver at the end and twist it (I tried removing them by hand and could not do it). Then slip the blades off the end that does not have the small “clasp.” This all goes relatively smoothly. Getting the replacements on, however, was a B***H. For some reason, sliding them to the midway point (where the wiper connects with the arm) was painless, but getting them past that point took perseverance (and a lot of cursing). I found two things help: using electrical cable lubricant (WD-40 would probably work, too) and flattening the wiper by holding down one end with my foot. It might take a few efforts before you get it to work. Make sure you stretch it all the way past the clasp. You can bend up the clasp with a small slot screwdriver – when you are done, use pliers to bend it back so it holds the rubber blade in place. One word about the replacements – the instructions are for the old style wipers, not the new floppy ones (even though Drew lists them as for 2003). I imagine VW shops have a tool to replace them, or they are using different replacement blades. They were a pain to put on but work marvelously. The old ones (bought the car in June) literally fell apart when I took them off.

tarik

IMO it's not the economy, as other cars of this caliber have sold fairly well, considering the circumstances. VW has pulled all the plugs in R&D as well as production of the Pheaton, a "fare-well present" for the afterworld, stuck in Ferdinand Piech's head for a while. Some people also call it his final attempt to immortality, strange guy, that.

Anyway, VW's Gläserne Fabrik is the finest car building facility you can possible imagine - it even sports wooden floors (!) - but is worthless if the product tanks. In the eighties, AUDI built an upscale contender (AUDI V8), which took a decade to even get noticed on the luxo-radar screen. Only after a complete and radical design (all new) and engineering (all-aluminim body) change, the world would even look. To this day, the A8's clientele has to deal with the car's inferior image, which might not mean a lot to those who buy, but keeps the car from being a complete commercial success.

koolkuts99

I had the inserts replaced twice within last 5 months. The 2nd replacement was 2 weeks ago by the VW dealer, guess what??? It's still making awful noise. The dealer also adjusted the pressure in the arm against the windshield. Any idea how to solve this problem???

markcincinnati

Am I to understand your post correctly that the Phaeton has been canned?

I guess in the context of your post "pulling the plugs" means -- to me -- that the R&D as well as production has been shut down.

If this is true is this a permanent situation? Or, is it a "let's get the bugs out of this thing" approach -- especially since it is coming to the US soon.

I keep reading that the Phaeton will come to the US pretty much fully equipped for under $62,000 which when compared to the "similar" Audi A8 makes it more or less a bargain -- on paper.

I want VW to succeed in their quest upmarket and find it hard to believe they would can the Phaeton so close to its US debut.

Please elaborate.

Thanks.

mliong

American, European and Asian car markets are so different, it's really hard to see how well a car will sell on a given market.

Honda, for example, is huge in the US, but not very much so in Europe. Peugot, Citroen, et al are popular in Europe, but not here.

If Tarik is correct in saying that the plug has been pulled for the Phaeton, it would be uneconomical for VW to sell it here, right? Maybe they are waiting to see if it takes off over here to determine the life-span of that car.

pat

Check this out - Volkswagen Phaeton.

That rumor has been floated there, but it is also being denied.

tarik

...who said the plug has been pulled???

Oh, I did! What I meant to say was VW has pulled out all stops in R&D as well as production of the Pheaton.

Geez, an insignificant snafu, and you're all over me like, ahemm, whatever that beast is...

Seriously now, my mistake, and as mliong said, no introduction to the US without production in Germany. Business 101.

dking00

Have an '03 GLS with 13k miles/ 8 mo. old.
(no problems to date...knock on wood)
Went to jumpstart a friends car last night, popped the hood, and... NO LIGHT UNDER THE HOOD???
Can this be? VW seemed to have thought of just about everything (except a dash compass) on this car, I can't believe they wouldn't have an under hood lamp....

markcincinnati

I certainly hope nothing untoward happened when you jumped your friend's car.

You should be aware, however, that you took your car's computer system in your own hands by your actions.

My Audi/Porche dealer told me the only safe way to jump another car was to completely remove the battery cables -- then other things, like the radio code would have to be reset and that is a pain in the butt.

These cars, generally speaking should not be donor cars and under no circumstances should they ever be donee cars. The electronic systems would not be warranted and if you fry, you buy.

I would much rather "loan" my AAA membership to someone (which is OK as long as I stay with them) than risk my car's central nervous system.

Here is some info that hopefully will make this your last jump:

This is from Click and Clack, by the way. . .

 "Dear Tom and Ray: Following the advice of my mechanic, I recently refused to give someone a jump-start for fear of racking up another $250 bill for a new alternator. Was I a bad Samaritan, or was I justified in leaving a guy stranded?
   -- John

   Ray: Many manufacturers now recommend against giving or receiving a jump-start. And at the garage, when possible, we "trickle charge" batteries -- charge them slowly over many hours -- instead of jumping them with a large surge of current.

   Tom: I guess the theory is that when you give a jump-start, you use your charging system to charge two batteries (yours and the jump-startee's), and that can place too great a demand on your alternator and can overheat it.

   Ray: And the reason they recommend against receiving a jump-start is that it's possible to fry the delicate electronics in today's cars with a voltage surge. And if you think ruining an alternator is bad, you should try cooking a thousand-dollar computer!"

My dealer basically says jumping is forbidden!

altair4

No jumping from the Passat! This rule put me in a delicate situation awhile back. We had visitors to the office and one guy's battery needed jumped. He had the cables, but I won't use my car to jump him. Heh, the excuse I used is that battery is buried under that shield and I don't know how to take it off. He only got a quick look and didn't see (I don't think) the little access door...

VW's have a less than bullet-proof reputation for electrical issues. I'm not giving it an excuse to act up. Just my opinion...YMMV.

markcincinnati

. . .that produces cars that have sensitive electronics.

Don't jump a modern car, period -- not with my $50,000 Audi that's for darn sure.

tsy

Thanks for the comments on the wiper blades. I think I might try the inserts if I keep the car long enough.
I must say I enjoy driving the car but there are sometimes I just want a car that's quiet, and all of the squeaks and rattles coming from the car are not what I expected. Perhaps I just got a bad one, but the chrysler rent a car I recently had didn't make this much noise! But it goes back to what expectations the owner has, and for a car that cost 25% more than it's Japanese competetion, I'm not sure I'd buy another one. Even the resale value has significantly dropped. It doesn't leave a lot of compelling reasons to buy again.

Not to mention the wiper blades are $70.

Just some thoughts.

bjbird2

That's interesting, my 2002 Passat now has 20k miles on it, and no squeaks and rattles to date. I did have a drivers door that was slightly misaligned, noticable only while looking through the side view mirror, and the dealer did a great job correcting the alignment.

tsy

Actually my GLS wagon has had them from day one. I left it at the dealer for 2 days and they sort of fixed one (at least it's not constant anymore). Once again, perhaps just bad luck (although I have never been in a squeaky camry). I also had both rear brake rotors replaced because they were warped, 2 recalls, my rear ashtray won't stay in place, and my suspension keeps bottoming out on even small bumps with just me driving (and I'm not heavy!).

I don't regret buying the car but I'm not exactly impressed with the car either, and I don't know if I'd buy another VW product again. This is my second VW and I remember telling myself I wouldn't buy another, but I was hoping VW had changed, but perhaps it hasn't changed enough.

dcmike

Just made my purchase - An 01.5 Silver/Blue GLX. Love it so far, but didn't receive an owners manual with my purchase (dealer said they should receive it in a week). Two questions:

1. What does the ASR button / dash light stand for?

2. How do you (or can you) turn on the foglights?

Thanks from a happy new owner (who no longer drives a Camry!)

vocus

Congrats on the car!

1. The ASR is traction control. When you push the ASR button on the dash, it turns off the system and the light on the dash will stay on. When the system is working to limit/eliminate wheel spin, the light on the dash flashes quickly. It also illuminates shortly when starting to check the system and the light.

2. To turn on the foglights, pull OUT on the headlight switch. You will see the green foglamp indicator by the headlamp switch light up. Push back in to turn them off.

vocus

I had an 02 Jetta, and most of the rattles were never fixed in the car. I told myself I wouldn't buy another VW after that experience, and I didn't. I kinda miss the VW 'feel' though, so solid and reassuring like any German car. Maybe I will give them another chance next time...

ufgators

My driver side door handle (on the inside of the car, where the window buttons are) is beginning to peel on my '02 Passat. I was interested to know if anyone else has experienced this problem, and whether or not it is covered under the warranty.

dcmike

Thanks for clearing up the ASR question - hopefully the manual will show up soon. BTW - the foglamps look great!
Thanks again!

mbros2k

Yeah, my door handle looks very bad, all peeling with only 16,000 mi. I plan to ask for a replacement at my next service. There is some kind of thin spray-on film that gives the handle a soft touch feel. VW cheaped out and should have used better quality plastic instead. They can replace the handles when they fix my broken glove box and numerous rattles. Otherwise, the car's been great.

dcmike

Anyone know a good spot to get accessories? I am looking for the in-dash CD player for my 01 GLX, as well as all season floor mats. Thanks!!

vocus

Email me at the address in my profile, I have some sources but can't post them here.

bronsonb

To ufgators: The inside of my door handle is peeling as well. Is that a warranty item after 12 months/12,000 miles? If so, that would be nice to know. My 2003 GLS wagon with 1.8 T is only a year old with barely 15K miles on it, so I don't think the door handle should be peeling. My wife's 99 GLS sedan with the V6 has perfect door handles... so obviously they switched materials.

Regarding air filters: I changed mine on my 1.8 T this weekend. Talk about hard work. I set out to do it Sunday morning after church and before taking the family to IHOP (a bit of a tradition with us). Thought it would take about 10 minutes (what it takes for the 99 V6). It took an hour. There was a lot more to remove to get to the filter...a plastic cover clipped on, a rectangularish intake hose...a longer intake hose screwed to the front of the engine compartment...and a heat shield screwed to the side of the air filter chamber.

On top of that, I dropped a tool in the engine compartment and had to jack the car up and remove the skid plate to get it. Yeesh!

The worst part was putting those "Jesus" clips back on. My dad calls them Jesus clips because you yell "Jesus" every time you try to clip them on. Chewed my fingers up bad (not to mention taking the Lord's name in vain--forgive me please).

I still think it was worth it to do it myself considering any appointment at Jim Ellis VW in Marietta is at least an all day affair.

On oil changes: I changed the oil in my 1.8T by myself on Friday for the first time. As I've mentioned previously, the dealer wasn't using the right oil. The car requires 5w40 (5w30 can be used ONLY for topping off). Dealer puts 10w30 in. Anyway, found 5w40 at NAPA (thanks to an Edmunds poster). Got the filter at the dealer. Compared to our v6 Passat, the 1.8T is harder. I removed the coolant reservoir (three screws, and just moved it aside) to gain access to the filter. Once I got the filter out, oil dropped like crazy, even though I had already drained the engine for 20 minutes. Oh well. In the end, it took about an hour since it was my first time doing it. Estimate I will be able to do it in 45 minutes in the future.

fish8

Did you change your engine air filter or pollen filter? I replaced my cabin/pollen filter on my 2002 Jetta and it was a challenge, but doable. I paid about $18 from an automotive store and it took maybe 15 minutes. Compared to the dealer charging $60 to change out the filter. I looked at my engine filter about 2,000 miles agao and it looked like it was in good shape. I have about 22,000 on my car.

bronsonb

fish8: It was the engine air filter that I changed this weekend. I haven't done the pollen filter yet on my 2003, but it's nice to know it's relatively easy. I've done the pollen filter on my wife's 1999 V6 Passat, and it was relatively easy. And it's certainly cheaper to do it yourself as well! Thanks!